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Author Topic: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!  (Read 11841 times)

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Offline trifecta

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Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« on: Sun Apr 20, 2008 - 20:11:34 »
Let me relate to you something that recently happened to me.

A secular friend said, out of the blue, said that religion has done everything wrong.

I was surprised at this because she knows that I am a Christian.   I disagreed.
She, then remembered I am a Christian, and said that I get strength and encouragement from my faith, and that's a good thing.  But what has the church done that is good.

Now, some of you may have agreed with her at this point, and say "nothing" or point out the mistakes that all institutional churches have made.  Thus, cementing in her mind that church, religion, Christianity is all bad.

I instead said:  Have you ever seen an orphanage?  Who started it?  Likely, a church (or as some of you say, an institutional church).   Have you ever wondered why many hospitals are named after a saint?  This goes back to the days where there was no government or insurance to provide for sick people.  It was an act of charity from an institutional church.

She relunctantly agreed (which is a big thing because she really doesn't like religion at all). 

Now, look at independent churches--have they done half of the long-term charitable acts that, say, the Catholic Church has? How many orphanages have been started by independent churches?  I'd say 1/10000th of the orphanages started by institutional churches.

I am not saying institutional churches are perfect, nor that atrocities has not been committed, but it is very secular to look only at these things.

   

 

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Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« on: Sun Apr 20, 2008 - 20:11:34 »

Offline kensington

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #1 on: Sun Apr 20, 2008 - 21:50:16 »
Perhaps that is one way to look at it. Or... perhaps one could consider that independent churches and Christian organizations have done all they can with the funds they have.  You know, like the widows mite?  {Mark 12:43}}  Truely I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all the contributors to the treasury, for they all put in our out their surplus,  but she out of her poverty, put in all she owned, and all she had to live on" Most do not have the money the Catholic Church has garnered through things like "obligations" and religious rites being said for a fee. (I know this is true, my Fil just paid for a Novena to be said by some nuns for my family, for our birthdays)

And another way to look at it is as God did with Cain and Abel.  God considered Abel's offering acceptable because it was done within the desires of God... meeting Him in worship.  Where as, Cain's was filled with sin and God rejected it.

You can say that the Catholic church as done more... but you also have to look at where that came from.  And who was it to please in the first place.  They probably could have done alot more considering the wealth the Vatican has accumilated time and time again.

And yet, we do see small independent chruches and ministries doing wonderful and fearfully considered things for the hurting and dying world. James Robison... Wells of water being dug.  I personally supported a wonderful home for unwed mothers that was started by a "TEEN" association within the Baptist church.  Pairing devoted Born again christian parents with those babies that were adopted.  The church, bought that building from the Catholic church. It had been a convent.

What about the Christian drs giving FREE medical care to children in poor countries... the SMILE program.

Does it really matter HOW MUCH they did... or is it the motive, the ministry and those they helped before the LORD that matters? 

Is the offering less important because it was provided by with less funds and on a less than grand scale? Or is the offering acceptable and approved by God because He led them to do it to please Him. 





« Last Edit: Sun Apr 20, 2008 - 21:56:37 by kensington »

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #1 on: Sun Apr 20, 2008 - 21:50:16 »

Offline charlie

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #2 on: Mon Apr 21, 2008 - 22:00:36 »
Yes, many foundational institutions and mentalities were a direct result of applied Christianity, and not just individual organizations, but the kernel concepts themselves:

Orphanages
Hospitals
Universities
The Scientific Method (don't believe me? try reading Thomas Aquinas sometime)
The Renaissance (art and music as we in the West have come to know it)
The Industrial Revolution
Modern health care
The (temporary) end of the practice of infanticide
Abolition of Slavery

None of these would have happened had not Christ come and built his Church.

So, yay Jesus!!! The real source of all these good things.

So who shall we blame all the atrocities on?

Offline James Rondon

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #3 on: Mon Apr 21, 2008 - 22:04:27 »
"Good things" have been done in the name of Christ, and even apart from His name.

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #3 on: Mon Apr 21, 2008 - 22:04:27 »

Offline Bonnie

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #4 on: Tue Apr 22, 2008 - 05:58:55 »
I agree not every good thing is done in the name of Christ nor for His sake.  We have natural born givers who have the means and the purpose to do well for humankind.  We also have those who do good to puff themselves up and gain a name among men .  We also have tax write offs.

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #4 on: Tue Apr 22, 2008 - 05:58:55 »



Offline Imabear

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #5 on: Tue Apr 22, 2008 - 07:49:32 »
Yes, many foundational institutions and mentalities were a direct result of applied Christianity, and not just individual organizations, but the kernel concepts themselves:

Orphanages
Hospitals
Universities
The Scientific Method (don't believe me? try reading Thomas Aquinas sometime)
The Renaissance (art and music as we in the West have come to know it)
The Industrial Revolution
Modern health care
The (temporary) end of the practice of infanticide
Abolition of Slavery

None of these would have happened had not Christ come and built his Church.

So, yay Jesus!!! The real source of all these good things.

So who shall we blame all the atrocities on?
Hey Charlie, I like your positive attitude here. :)   
In addition Christians are huge supporters of different relief programs:
Compassion
World Vision
Zillions of different mission projects, all around the world
Inner city outreaches
Crisis pregnancy centers
Hurricane and disaster relief.

I could go on and on.
As Christians it is part of our calling to offer the water, food, and shelter to those in need.

Offline Harold

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #6 on: Tue Apr 22, 2008 - 14:38:53 »
Churches built a huge portion of America, gave us our constitution, and passed out bible around the world.

Bible Societies have done much to further the cause of Christ.

Salvation Army....and the list goes on. Quick got to add St Jude's.

FTL


Offline James Rondon

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #7 on: Wed Apr 23, 2008 - 02:04:47 »
I agree not every good thing is done in the name of Christ nor for His sake.  We have natural born givers who have the means and the purpose to do well for humankind.  We also have those who do good to puff themselves up and gain a name among men .  We also have tax write offs.

Great points. Not only do men seemingly do "good" in the name of Christ, as well as apart from His name, but much of the "good" that is done is selfishly motivated.

Offline kensington

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #8 on: Thu Apr 24, 2008 - 01:52:24 »
That's why every deed we have done will be tried by the Holy Spirit in an instant and that which was not built on the foundation of Christ alone will burn off. Some entering Heaven with their skirts still smoking! 

Offline James Rondon

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #9 on: Thu Apr 24, 2008 - 12:17:32 »
Not to be, in any sense, inflammatory, nor is this meant to be a parallel or direct reflection to any person or group, but I wonder how much good could have been claimed by and/or for Adolf Hitler, during his lifetime?

Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #10 on: Thu Apr 24, 2008 - 12:23:50 »
Not to be, in any sense, inflammatory, nor is this meant to be a parallel or direct reflection to any person or group, but I wonder how much good could have been claimed by and/or for Adolf Hitler, during his lifetime?

I believe that there is still a group of followers presently that believe in the principles of Hitler and Nazism and the benefits they offer[ed]. With some research, I'm sure you would find many interesting parallels between Nazism and certain organized religions...

Offline jiggyfly

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #11 on: Mon Oct 27, 2008 - 07:24:42 »
Let me relate to you something that recently happened to me.

A secular friend said, out of the blue, said that religion has done everything wrong.

I was surprised at this because she knows that I am a Christian.   I disagreed.
She, then remembered I am a Christian, and said that I get strength and encouragement from my faith, and that's a good thing.  But what has the church done that is good.

Now, some of you may have agreed with her at this point, and say "nothing" or point out the mistakes that all institutional churches have made.  Thus, cementing in her mind that church, religion, Christianity is all bad.

I instead said:  Have you ever seen an orphanage?  Who started it?  Likely, a church (or as some of you say, an institutional church).   Have you ever wondered why many hospitals are named after a saint?  This goes back to the days where there was no government or insurance to provide for sick people.  It was an act of charity from an institutional church.

She relunctantly agreed (which is a big thing because she really doesn't like religion at all). 

Now, look at independent churches--have they done half of the long-term charitable acts that, say, the Catholic Church has? How many orphanages have been started by independent churches?  I'd say 1/10000th of the orphanages started by institutional churches.

I am not saying institutional churches are perfect, nor that atrocities has not been committed, but it is very secular to look only at these things.

   

 

Ever wondered how many orphanages and hospitials were started by those in other religions? With this line of reasoning wouldn't Muslims, Mormons, Jews, Hindus, and buddhists be good?

Offline Howdyboyalan

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #12 on: Mon Oct 27, 2008 - 07:45:11 »
I look at it as a kind of doctor.

Say a doctor saves 2 patients for every 1 he kills. Most would say that's a terrible doctor. A lot of organised religious institiution has been like said doctor. It's not there aren't secular organisations who also do these things. So to say

'The church has done this that and this' is misleading because any organisation can and has opened orphanages etc. The Church should be going ABOVE AND BEYOND what is expected of a secular charitable society. The sad truth is, a lot of them don't.

Offline stevehut

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #13 on: Mon Oct 27, 2008 - 08:34:40 »
Trifecta's friend is simply ignorant.

Christianity, and Christians, and Christian churches, have done more for mankind through the ages than everyone else combined.

Offline Howdyboyalan

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #14 on: Mon Oct 27, 2008 - 08:39:19 »
Trifecta's friend is simply ignorant.

Christianity, and Christians, and Christian churches, have done more for mankind through the ages than everyone else combined.

 ::pondering::

examples?

Offline stevehut

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #15 on: Mon Oct 27, 2008 - 08:46:39 »
examples?

I believe others have given lots of examples already:

Orphanages
Hospitals
Universities
The Scientific Method (don't believe me? try reading Thomas Aquinas sometime)
The Renaissance (art and music as we in the West have come to know it)
The Industrial Revolution
Modern health care
The (temporary) end of the practice of infanticide
Abolition of Slavery

Compassion
World Vision
Zillions of different mission projects, all around the world
Inner city outreaches
Crisis pregnancy centers
Hurricane and disaster relief.  (Can you imagine this without the Salvation Army?   ::eek::)

And how about this?  Women's rights!   Believe it or not, Jesus liberated women far more than anyone before or since.  He respected women and treated them with dignity on a level that was unheard of at the time.

And many more.

Offline Howdyboyalan

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #16 on: Mon Oct 27, 2008 - 08:49:27 »
The industrial revolution? Modern health care? Slavery? How has christian institiutions helped here?

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #17 on: Thu Aug 20, 2009 - 21:57:39 »
every thing God does is organized ------why wouldnt his church be.

his world is, his universe is . His heaven is

 who ever said Gods church is unorganized simply does not know God very well .


Offline cdbristow

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Re: Organized Religion has done . . . good things!
« Reply #18 on: Tue Feb 28, 2012 - 10:05:08 »
The industrial revolution? Modern health care? Slavery? How has christian institiutions helped here?


The Industrial Revolution:
John Calvin first pioneered the idea that it was 'good' for every man to work as that was what God created man to do.

"John Calvin’s Biblical theology of work changed the world. It changed it in a good way. But the seeds of his theology, improperly applied to work and business, fed the Industrial monster."

"Ideas of human solidarity, thanks to Christianity, were far more widely diffused in the newer European world, political power was not so concentrated, and the man of energy anxious to get rich turned his mind, therefore, very willingly from the ideas of the slave and of gang labour to the idea of mechanical power and the machine.

Modern Healthcare:
Many early hospitals were set up by Christian institutions to bring healthcare to the many, ideas such as the NHS in the UK, Medicare/Medicaid/Obama healthcare reforms in the US are rooted in this principle.

""Early Christian philanthropy was informed by the theological concept of the imago Dei, that humans were created in the image of God."

This led not only to a belief in the responsibility to aid others and the inherent worth of every human being, but also to a belief in the sacredness of the body itself.


Slavery
What!? ... William Wilberforce - incidentally, he also founded the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.