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Offline Seriousseeker

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Revival Of 1827
« on: Sat Apr 24, 2010 - 11:46:11 »
Hello!  I am new here, and I see references to familiar organized denominated church groups, but I am associated with that revival of 1827 known as "the brethren movement".  Has anyone heard of it?  

This is that work of God, I believe, to recover church truth lost after the Apostolic age.  Some saints of God in circa 1800 stood apart from the established church organizations from the Middle Ages, to endeavor to maintain the scriptural order and truth of the universal church, and the local expression of it.  It is not to protest the various organizations, but to just go on as we believe God intended, and share with those who also have such exercise of soul.  One can read some about it from Brethren From 1827 on the internet.  Most of the foundational truths were set forth by J. N. Darby, J. G. Bellet, G. V. Wigram, W. Kelly, and C. H. Mackintosh.

There have been some divisions in that revival, like most Christian fellowships, but I believe I am holding to that fellowship which withstood the dissenters, who chose their own interpretations of this new work.  I don't argue or trouble anyone, but am happy to be on this ground of gathering, and will share it with any who have interest.  I will try to answer any questions seekers have.

I am happy to be here and can share what I have learned in over 50 years of Bible study.  It is alright to disagree, and please let me know if I seem to offend anyone, for that is surely not intended.

- Seriousseeker
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« Last Edit: Sun Apr 25, 2010 - 20:56:28 by Seriousseeker »

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Revival Of 1827
« on: Sat Apr 24, 2010 - 11:46:11 »

Offline Snargles

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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #1 on: Mon Apr 26, 2010 - 15:27:06 »
What are some modern day denominational names that we would recognize that are part of the "Brethren Movement"?

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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #1 on: Mon Apr 26, 2010 - 15:27:06 »

Offline Seriousseeker

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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #2 on: Mon Apr 26, 2010 - 19:34:21 »
One can Google for Brethren Movement;  Plymouth Brethren;  Brethren From 1827.  You may contact me personally for some personal information on it.  I should not go into that here.

-Seriousseeker
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Offline Snargles

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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #3 on: Mon Apr 26, 2010 - 21:16:00 »
I thought of Plymouth Brethren but there is also the Church of the Brethren and the EUB. I know the Plymouth Brethren mainly from Garrison Keillor and the exclusivist problems with if A is bad and B associates with A and C associates with B then C is bad.

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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #3 on: Mon Apr 26, 2010 - 21:16:00 »

Offline Seriousseeker

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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #4 on: Tue Apr 27, 2010 - 12:58:06 »
Yes, Snargles, some of the more looser line of brethren are with what is known as Open Br. ---which such as Garrison Keiller was with.  They freely call themselves PB (Plymouth Br.) which became a common name by Christians in general, who knew of a large gathering in the beginning at Plymouth, England.  Most of us do not take a name for the church. The Church of the Br. and EUB are something different.

The term: Exclusive (EB), was a general reference by the OB (Open Br.) to those they stood against.  The EB became associated with a very strict sect by a brother Raven in early 1900's, who was excommunicated from the universal fellowship, and they proudly hold the name "Exclusive".   The original brothers used for this ministry were J. N. Darby, J. G. Bellet, G. V. Wigram, William Kelly, and C. H. Mackintosh, and perhap one or two others not so well known.

The fellowship I am with views ourselves as standing apart from all the divisions (Open & Exclusive, and any sub-divisions) without a name, and endeavor to maintain that which was intended from the beginning in 1827.  We trace this fellowship back to that time, which we see as a revival of Acts 2 and the Epistles (which truth got lost during the Middle Ages).  One can see more on that on a web site, which we are asked to not mention here.

- Seriousseeker
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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #4 on: Tue Apr 27, 2010 - 12:58:06 »



Offline Snargles

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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #5 on: Tue Apr 27, 2010 - 17:38:22 »
If you don't adopt a name, how can you find a fellowship when you are visiting in another city?

Saying you aren't supposed to mention a certain web site sounds like the makings of a conspiracy theory. Who says you aren't to mention it, Grace Centered or your brotherhood?

Offline Seriousseeker

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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #6 on: Tue Apr 27, 2010 - 19:13:00 »
I don't know why you are getting worried about a "conspiracy", Snargles, it is a policy of this web site, I understand.

-Seriousseeker

larry2

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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #7 on: Tue Apr 27, 2010 - 20:55:51 »
Quote from: Seriousseeker link=topic=44132.msg785954#msg785954 date=1272413580
I don't know why you are getting worried about a "conspiracy", Snargles, it is a policy of this web site, I understand.

-Seriousseeker


Dear Brother Seriousseeker, I do not think giving the type or name of the denomination you belong to in your message would be considered advertising, or self promotion of an affiliated church you attend when attempting to explain what you believe and why you believe it. I know I can Google the "Brethren Church, but I look forward to learning of it with your personal tutorage if you're willing to go into it. There may be something another moderator will edit or say something about, but I sure appreciate your kind Christian attitude and concern toward our rules.

The rule is as follows. Rule 3.1. You will not post any messages anywhere on this site that are primarily for the promotion or advertising of any website, email address, business, MLM (Multi Level Marketing or pyramid schemes), activity, church, ministry, prophetic services or any other entities or services that you have an affiliation with (ie. no self-promotion).

Rule 3.3 required you to have a minimum of twenty posts to post links, and you have passed that mark.

God bless you and have at it in Jesus' name.



Offline Seriousseeker

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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #9 on: Tue Apr 27, 2010 - 22:45:04 »
Thank you for the clarification, brother Larry.  I do not intend to advertise, but would like to reference the site at www.biblecounsel.homestead.com to show some of the ministry about the ground of gathering and church truth, which this fellowship holds.  One can get further clarification at that site by writing to the site manager.  Also, one can write to Bible Truth Publishers or see their web site at www.bibletruthpublishers.com for much ministry and history of this fellowship.

One of the questions brother Snargles raised was how we might know of those in other assemblies.  We are not a large fellowship in the world and we know of all assemblies who are associated with this.  Look up always!

- Yours by grace, Seriousseeker
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larry2

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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #10 on: Wed Apr 28, 2010 - 04:04:36 »

Dear Seriousseeker, I went through much of the material presented on your link and drew the following conclusions if I gathered them correctly.

In many ways your assemblies resemble Baptists except Sectarianism in doctrine such as the following.

Eternal security - I did not see the statement Once Saved, Always Saved; do they state that anywhere?

Dispensationalist - Since John Darby is listed, and believed that.

Non-Pentecostal - I'll read further as to why.

Sectarianism & divisions - I would suppose these to mean you have no official membership other than being a part of the true General body of Christ. For instance, they were "Of the Church in Philadelphia," not the Philadelphia Church.

Interesting excerpts were the following:

QUOTE - In the western world man has built his legal, social, and economic systems on much of the principles given in the Bible, even though one may personally not be a Christian or a Jew.  When in extreme peril man often calls upon God, not by faith, but it seems by an inherent God conscious-ness which he otherwise refuses to acknowledge. 

My Question - How shall they call on one the don't believe in?

Romans 10:14  How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

QUOTE - One needs a relationship with the Lord, not just a belief about Him. This is what God calls The New Birth.  When one truly receives Christ into his heart, God promises to seal that one with the indwelling Holy Spirit, which allows entrance into God's presence and heaven when one leaves this world.

My question - What of the thief?

Thanks in Jesus' name.

Offline Seriousseeker

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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #11 on: Wed Apr 28, 2010 - 13:05:55 »
Brother Larry, I am happy to respond to questions, yet I will add that I realize I cannot adequately respond here in such a brief way.  Each month the Bible Counsel web site has more ministry which will likely cover the issues in time;  also, as I said: one can get much ministry from Bible Truth Publishers, including from the writings of brethren used in the founding of this fellowship.

Now, I will try to respond to these Q. you raise.  1) We are quite far from the Baptist doctrines, which I was with when I got saved;  2) We certainly believe in eternal security, and appreciate that our standing in Christ is eternal due to His perfect and finished work of redemption and our sealing by the Holy Spirit;  and we would make a distinction between standing and state, and note that a true believer can be carnal in his spiritual walk (state) --yet standing firm as a child of God;  3) There is no official membership, yet one is known locally and commended by letter elsewhere if not known there;  4) I believe, as do others, that all mankind has a God-consciousness (even atheists),  and though they ignore or oppose Him, they often cry out to Him when afraid and in extreme peril.  They know about God in various degrees, but may not know Him in a personal way;  5) I am inclined to believe the "thief", as living before the resurrection, was the last of the O.T. saints (friends of the bridegroom), and not part of the bride.  He recognized and owned Jesus as the Christ, as did John, the Baptizer.

Now, I have probably raised more questions than I have answered, but again one will need to get a bigger picture from such as the sources I have mentioned.  Feel free to inquire further.  Look up always!

- Ever in Christ by grace alone, Seriousseeker
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larry2

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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #12 on: Wed Apr 28, 2010 - 21:14:38 »

Hi Brother Seriousseeker. I do understand your terminology on "Standing and state" though I may think differently as to how that affects us in eternity. You mention the bride, and I believe our qualification for being in the bride versus being a servant is based upon our state. And I do believe that the standing of all Christians is secure.

Romans 8:17. "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

In this verse we find that all children of God are heirs in some manner and that pertains to our standing. There is a qualifier to being a joint heir with Christ however and that is suffering, or enduring with Christ that we might be joint-heirs with Him; in other words our state determines our reward.

I do agree with your reasoning on the thief on the cross as being the last of the Old Testament saints. As to the bride of Christ in Acts 15:14, Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. In type Genesis Chapter Twenty-four gives us the scenario of how that bride is being sought and qualified at this very time.
 

You state that there is no official membership where you attend, but those coming to you must have letters. What do you do with persons not in Christ then? And then just what would the purpose of a letter? This guy is so great that you should boot your pastor out and use him instead? And I do hope you realize I am kidding. We practice no denomination in accordance with 1 Corinthians 3:4. For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? We want to make Christ only as our head. I am not old like you having gained the wisdom needed sometimes, but I may catch up to you someday; I'm just seventy-two years old and my wife thinks I'll never grow up; should I consider that as not aging?  ::smile::

I attend an assembly of believers with no membership, and no letters. I have no idea what we would do with them if they brought them. I reckon we could assign them to a better pew if we had one that was better.

Well I do enjoy writing one somewhat on the same wavelength, and I'll probably find we're even closer than that as I learn more about the Brethren. God bless you dear brother in Jesus' name for your time..

Offline Seriousseeker

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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #13 on: Thu Apr 29, 2010 - 15:34:51 »
It seems, brother Larry, that we are saying the same things about standing and state ---secure in our standing as born-again, sealed, and forever a child of God.  Yes, our "state determines our rewards" in heaven, as to obedience and faithfulness.

We do suffer with Christ, I believe, by the fact that we belong to Him and live for Him in this ungodly world ---though not suffering as He suffered as "smitten of God" (Isa. 53:4).  There is a suffering that speaks of devotion in the face of opposition, and that speaks of our spiritual state, as you said. 

You spoke of one coming among us who is not saved.  We would welcome them, try to be helpful, and have them sit back (1 Cor.14:16), and observe, rather than participate in the ministry and be at the Lord's table.  We would try to keep in contact, encourage them, and help them to see the need to receive the Lord Jesus into their heart, etc. ---"God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth" (2 Tim.1:25).

Letters of commendation were given in the N.T. church for one who travels, to be known to another assembly as in happy fellowship.  There was no such thing in the early church as independent assemblies;  they were always mindful of the "one body of Christ" and sought to express that in unity and a bond of love everywhere.  Denominated sects were not known then.

I don't know where you live, but we might even know of an assembly in this fellowship there.  We highly value keeping the truth of "one body" (as it will be in heaven), and expressing the "unity", "one accord", and avoiding "schism", as God has said.

Look up!
- Seriouseeker
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larry2

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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #14 on: Thu Apr 29, 2010 - 16:10:28 »

Now Brother Seriousseeker, I live in the Denver, Colorado area and there are Brethren churches here but I was of the opinion that they had memberships from a brother in the Lord that attended one of them on West Ninth Avenue.

As to suffering, it has more to do with enduring with Christ in an overcoming state, We read in Revelation 3:10 of those that will be kept from the temptation to come upon all the world for patiently keeping the word of God; that is reward and they are given crowns for their faithfulness. And yet those of the Smyrna are also of the overcoming part of the Church who will have crowns and they endure tribulation and suffering unto death; the dead in Christ shall rise first.

I don’t know how many of these things we agree on but it is wonderful just thinking and talking of them. God bless you brother in Jesus, and yes look up for the time draweth nigh.

Offline Seriousseeker

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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #15 on: Sat May 01, 2010 - 22:26:13 »
The only Christian gathering I know in Colorado, Larry, is at Englewood and on S. Kalamath St.

Yes, it is nice to speak and meditate on the things of God and His "exceeding great and precious promises".

- Seriousseeker
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Offline beck

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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #16 on: Sat May 08, 2010 - 07:41:12 »
and so nice to read such a respectful and loving conversation about the body of Christ.  This thread has been a soothing and inspiring devotion to spend my day thinking of and seeking to live as one of Christ's own - which I am! And you are! wow! It's absolutely mind-boggling and amazing that He makes us His own!!!   ::clappingoverhead::

Offline davidmac

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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #17 on: Tue Jul 06, 2010 - 18:15:15 »
Hello Seriousseeker,
About a year after I trusted Christ as my savior I met a fellow from a Bible Chapel in south Florida-and he spent a lot of time with me discussing bible themes and teaching me bible doctrines (a lot of what he shared made sense to me due to my exposure to the Stone-Campbell Restoration Movement)- he told me about the"brethren movement".I asked my grandfather (who was the most godly man I have ever met-he ran a boys home which was operated entirely by faith like George Muller,and had adopted my father, he was non-denominational) about "the brethren or so called Plymouth brethren" he was so excited-he told me that whenever he could and wherever he could he loved to fellowship with like minded brethren. He gave me his library with many books by CH Macintosh,JN Darby,HA Ironside, Samuel Ridout and many others. I attended a denominational bible college for two years after I had earned my Bachelors Degree - I asked the professors (History, Theology, Bible, Greek) 1.Did the early church have a plurality of elders? and 2. Did the early church celebrate the Lord's Supper weekly? They were all in agreement that the early church did so -despite the practice of their denomination. A few years later I started a non-denominational assembly and received much encouragement, fellowship with and ministry from saints with a background in the Open brethren (from bible chapels and gospel halls).I have been very blessed by this exposure- the weekly unstructured Breaking of Bread meetings have been the highlight of my christian experience.

Offline davidmac

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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #18 on: Tue Jul 06, 2010 - 18:24:50 »
Hello Seriousseeker,
One further note-not long after my grandfather gave me his library (just before I went to bible college) he moved to Jacksonville,Florida and fellowshipped with an open assembly there until he died a few years later. When he was younger his exposure to the assemblies "up north"were with a group known as "Grant Exclusives" (I don't think they even exist anymore).
May the Lord bless you in your labors for Him. ::reading::

Offline Seriousseeker

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Re: Revival Of 1827
« Reply #19 on: Wed Jul 07, 2010 - 17:51:05 »
David, I don't think the Grants continue in great numbers, but I have heard ref. to them not to long ago.  I knew about a small gathering in Idaho about 20 years ago.
You can see something of the brethren ministry at the web site: www.biblecounsel.homestead.com

- Seriousseeker

 

     
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