Author Topic: The Foursquare Church  (Read 7552 times)

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Offline .:Lily:.

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The Foursquare Church
« on: Sat Jan 12, 2013 - 17:39:41 »

I wanted to go for a Foursquare Church since the vineyard church is not close enough to me...

I was excited about this church, but I have some concerns when I read about it today.

The Foursquare Gospel †

What Is Foursquare? Small | Large



FourSquare Church

http://www.foursquare.org

Foursquare Gospel Church Beliefs:

Baptism - Water baptism is required as a public commitment to Christ's role as Redeemer and King. Foursquare Gospel Church baptizes by immersion.

Bible - Foursquare teachings hold that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, "true, immutable, steadfast, and unchangeable."

Communion - The broken bread represents Christ's broken body, given for humanity, and the juice of the vine reminds of the shed blood of Christ. The Lord's Supper is a solemn occasion, entered into with self-examination, forgiveness, and love toward all.

Equality - The Foursquare Gospel Church rejects anti-Semitism and all ethnic discrimination. Since its founding by Aimee Semple McPherson, the church has ordained female ministers, and women are active throughout the church.

Evangelism - Planting and growing local churches is a priority. This church engages in global, interdenominational evangelism.

Gifts of the Spirit - The Foursquare Gospel Church teaches that the Holy Spirit still bestows his gifts on believers: wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, discernment, tongues, and interpretation of tongues.

Grace - Salvation comes through grace, a free gift from God. On their own merit, human beings cannot earn righteousness or God's favor and love.

Healing - Jesus Christ, who does not change, is still ready and willing to heal people in answer to prayers of faith. Christ can heal body, mind, and spirit.

Heaven, Hell - Heaven and hell are real places. Heaven is reserved for those who are born-again believers in Jesus Christ. Hell, originally created for Satan and his rebellious angels, is the place of eternal separation from God, for people who reject Christ as Savior.

Jesus Christ - Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. By shedding his blood on the cross, he redeemed from sin all who believe in Him as Savior. He lives as Mediator between God and man.

Salvation - Christ died for the sins of humanity. Through his substitutionary sacrifice, he earned pardon of sins for all who believe in Him.

Spirit-filled Life - Members are encouraged to live holy, exemplary lives, honoring Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit with their thoughts and actions, behaving in a loving, sincere, truthful manner.

Tithing - The Foursquare Gospel Church believes that tithes and monetary offerings are commanded by God for ministry, evangelism, and to release personal blessing.

Trinity - God is triune: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The three Persons are coeternal, coexistent and equal in perfection.

Foursquare Gospel Church Practices:

Sacraments - Baptism and the Lord's Supper are the two sacraments practiced in the Foursquare Gospel Church. Water baptism is "a blessed outward sign of an inward work." The Lord's Supper is a reminder of Christ's sacrifice, to be partaken with great seriousness and reflection.

Worship Service - The Foursquare Gospel Church is Pentecostal, which means people may speak in tongues at services. Worship varies from church to church, but music is typically contemporary and upbeat, with an emphasis on praise. Many Foursquare Gospel churches encourage casual or "come as you are" clothing. Sunday worship services run an hour to an hour and a half.


Creedal Statements
Compiled by
Aimee Semple McPherson:


1. In the verbal inspiration of the original Scriptures.
2. In the absolute trinity of the eternal God-head.
3. In the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ.
4. In the personality and deity of the Holy Spirit.
5. In the reality and personality of the devil.
6. In the natural depravity of the human race.
7. In the substitutionary atonement.
8. In the propitiation for sin only by the blood of Christ.
9. In the full salvation by grace through faith and not of works.
10. In Divine Healing through the atonement.
11. In the anointing of oil and prayer for the sick.
12. In the personal Baptism of the Holy Ghost as received by the apostles.
13. In the necessity of the new birth.
14. In water baptism by immersion at an age of accountability.
15. In the one and only true church composed of all blood-washed believers.
16. In the evangelization of the heathen and the nations of the world.
17. In a middle-of-the-road policy in public worship, between extreme fanaticism and ultra-ritualism.
18. In obedience to civil government.
19. In divorce only on New Testament scriptural grounds.
20. In church government, loyalty and obedience to those in authority over us in the Lord.
21. In tithing as God’s financial plan.
22. In restitution for past wrongs whenever possible.
23. In the open table at the Lord’s supper.
24. In the free moral will power of man, who can backslide, apostatize, and be lost.
25. In the maintenance of good works and holy living.
26. In the victorious life over sin, self, and bad habits by Bible study and an incessant prayer life.
27. In Christian perfection and holiness, through absolute surrender and consecration.
28. In Christian modesty in the matter of dress, wearing apparel, and jewelry.
29. In the keeping of the Lord’s day as a matter of privilege rather than law.
30. As regards recreation — liberty of conscience and a Godly example to the world.
31. In the immortality and conscious existence of the soul.
32. In the resurrection of our literal bodies, the just and the unjust.
33. In a literal heaven and life everlasting for all true believers.
34. In a final day of judgment for the incorrigible wicked.
35. In the everlasting punishment of the impenitent.
36. In the personal, literal, bodily pre-millennial coming of Jesus Christ.
37. In a future, literal, one thousand years reign of Christ on earth with all His saints.
38. In the judgment seat of Christ where the saints will be finally.
39. In Christian tolerance to all denominations of the Christian faith.
40. “In essentials — unity; in non-essentials — liberty; in all things — charity.”


I do not agree with this Aimee McPherson. she was the founder of this church:

Quote
"24. In the free moral will power of man, who can backslide, apostatize, and be lost."


This is worse than just arminianism... yak... :(  I do not believe in this nonsense..

Quote
27. In Christian perfection and holiness, through absolute surrender and consecration. 25. In the maintenance of good works and holy living.


oh my my perfection ??!

Is this some sort of a Neo-Catholicism ?

Quote
Equality - The Foursquare Gospel Church rejects anti-Semitism and all ethnic discrimination. Since its founding by Aimee Semple McPherson, the church has ordained female ministers, and women are active throughout the church.


The Jews killed Jesus. That is a fact and calling it anti-Semitism does not bother me!

I do not believe in equality with all non-Christians including the Jews. There is no salvation without Jesus today.   

Quote
In obedience to civil government.


huh? what does this mean really? so weird.. ::shrug::



 it is mostly number (24, 25, 27) I do not believe a christian can lose his/her salvation. And my goal is not to seek perfection. I also do not believe in a free will... I have faith in election by God.

I want to find a "safe" biblical charismatic church. so far it seems only AOG works for me, because the vineyard is like 35-40 min drive by a car! :/


I guess this chruch is not worth it ?

Offline chosenone

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Re: The Foursquare Church
« Reply #1 on: Sat Jan 12, 2013 - 19:57:05 »
I have never heard of this church before, but MOST of what it says seems OK. We are not supposed to be anti semitic and are told in the Bible to pray for Gods chosen people(the Jews).
We are also told to obey the laws of our land(the civil govt).
They do seem to have a lot of rules, a few of which I dont personally agree with, but you will never find a church where you agree with every thing.

Many dont agree with women being in leadership of a church, including my church. I have no problems with that myself. 

Without actually going to their church its hard to say how strict they are. For example they say that tithing is needed. Does that mean they tell you to do that?(wrong) or do they leave it up to you?(right). They say that modesty is needed in dress and wearing of jewellry. Does that mean that you cant wear ANY jewellry or does it mean that we are not supposed to be 'over the top' in such things? How controlling are they in these things?

Have you tried to see if there is a New Frontiers church near you? Thats what my church is.

Offline .:Lily:.

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Re: The Foursquare Church
« Reply #2 on: Sat Jan 12, 2013 - 22:26:39 »
I have never heard of this church before, but MOST of what it says seems OK. We are not supposed to be anti semitic and are told in the Bible to pray for Gods chosen people(the Jews).
We are also told to obey the laws of our land(the civil govt).
They do seem to have a lot of rules, a few of which I dont personally agree with, but you will never find a church where you agree with every thing.

Many dont agree with women being in leadership of a church, including my church. I have no problems with that myself. 

Without actually going to their church its hard to say how strict they are. For example they say that tithing is needed. Does that mean they tell you to do that?(wrong) or do they leave it up to you?(right). They say that modesty is needed in dress and wearing of jewellry. Does that mean that you cant wear ANY jewellry or does it mean that we are not supposed to be 'over the top' in such things? How controlling are they in these things?

Have you tried to see if there is a New Frontiers church near you? Thats what my church is.


Chosen, I can’t find New Frontiers.

It is weird that many people know the vineyard, but they do not know this church. The Foursquare is also a Neo-charismatic Church. (they are Pentecostals, but NOT mainstream.)

This church is similar to the vineyard and they are usually more “artistic” They love to worship and praise the lord.

This Video talks about the church in details:

We Are Foursquare Small | Large


Inside a Foursquare church:

Dance Worship at Battle Ground Foursquare Church Small | Large


Live Painting at Foursquare Connection:

Tory Foster Live Painting at Foursquare Connection Small | Large


UG- Foursquare music: (http://www.myfoursquarechurch.com)

Show Me - Foursquare UG Small | Large


Most of them are young people. They do not have many rules in my opinion. It is just that I do not agree with this heresy of the founder when she claims that Christians may lose salvation. It is false. Many churches are religious or extreme, but this church is relaxed, fun and easy to get along with. I do not want to feel like it is a duty to go to church anymore.

oh there is no problem with praying to Jews or  the world. I just found it weird to support the country of Israel when they are pretty much antichrist. Many Pentecostals are that way anyway. I'm only loyal to my original country, even though I did not live much in France because we moved to Canada then I moved to the US.


Quote
Without actually going to their church its hard to say how strict they are. For example they say that tithing is needed. Does that mean they tell you to do that?(wrong) or do they leave it up to you?(right). They say that modesty is needed in dress and wearing of jewellry. Does that mean that you cant wear ANY jewellry or does it mean that we are not supposed to be 'over the top' in such things? How controlling are they in these things?”


It is not required to pay tax to the church.

This is what it says on their site:  “Moderation. We believe that the experience and daily walk of the believer should not lead them into extremes or fanaticism. Their lives will model that of Christ in uprightness, balance, humility and self-sacrifice. (Colossians 3:12, 13; Philippians 4:5)” 

I’m sure you can wear anything you want because they seem relaxed and easy.

Quote
Many dont agree with women being in leadership of a church, including my church. I have no problems with that myself. 


I have no respect for those pastors or churches who do not respect my gender. I’m used to have many mixed pastors in the low Anglican Church. I’m not sure why it is not allowed in some churches probably they did not understand the bible.

Well I guess I will worship at this church for now and see how it goes.

Offline chosenone

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Re: The Foursquare Church
« Reply #3 on: Sun Jan 13, 2013 - 03:41:51 »
Lily, The more you say about it, the more I think it may suit you. Give it a go and see if you like it and feel at home there.
I looked it up In the UK, they are nearly all in London, and predominantly black. No problem there. Dont worry what she thinks about loosing your salvation. I am sure that Christians in all curches disagree on this, in fact my husband and I disagree on this, but its not a big deal.

You wont know until you go, but if you have one near you, then go for it. Let us know how you get on.I hope that it will be your new spiritual home. ::nodding::

Offline .:Lily:.

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Re: The Foursquare Church
« Reply #4 on: Sun Jan 13, 2013 - 16:13:37 »
Lily, The more you say about it, the more I think it may suit you. Give it a go and see if you like it and feel at home there.
I looked it up In the UK, they are nearly all in London, and predominantly black. No problem there. Dont worry what she thinks about loosing your salvation. I am sure that Christians in all curches disagree on this, in fact my husband and I disagree on this, but its not a big deal.

You wont know until you go, but if you have one near you, then go for it. Let us know how you get on.I hope that it will be your new spiritual home. ::nodding::

Not all Christians disagree on this. There are 2 views regarding salvation. Well you can't find a church where you agree with them on eveything I guess.

I spoke to the minister who is working with me now and she told me more about them today. I truly believe God is calling me to be there. I also noticed we have these churches in Chicago (went there already) and Montreal. At least I do not have to worry about going to two different churches when i go back to Montreal. It is just perfect for me!

Offline DaveW

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Re: The Foursquare Church
« Reply #5 on: Sun Jan 13, 2013 - 17:52:44 »
I do not agree with this Aimee McPherson. she was the founder of this church:

Quote
"24. In the free moral will power of man, who can backslide, apostatize, and be lost."


This is worse than just arminianism... yak... :(  I do not believe in this nonsense..

Quote
27. In Christian perfection and holiness, through absolute surrender and consecration. 25. In the maintenance of good works and holy living.

oh my my perfection ??!

Is this some sort of a Neo-Catholicism ?

Not at all.  It is mainstream Wesleyan Holiness doctrine.

Quote
Quote
Equality - The Foursquare Gospel Church rejects anti-Semitism and all ethnic discrimination. Since its founding by Aimee Semple McPherson, the church has ordained female ministers, and women are active throughout the church.


The Jews killed Jesus. That is a fact and calling it anti-Semitism does not bother me!

Quoting a historic fact is not antisemitism any more than saying Japan bombed Pearl Harbor is anti-Asian.  Blaming Japanese today IS discriminatory. The Jews today (especially the Messianics) should not be discriminated against.
   
Quote
Quote
In obedience to civil government.

huh? what does this mean really? so weird.. ::shrug::

It means that the NT teaches us to obey the laws of the land unless they directly violate a scriptural command.


Quote
I want to find a "safe" biblical charismatic church. so far it seems only AOG works for me, because the vineyard is like 35-40 min drive by a car! :/

Well I hate to break it to you but both Calvary Chapel and Vineyard are direct offshoots of the Four Square denomination.

And the Assembly of God is more Wesleyan Holiness than the Four Square is. As to the issue of salvation being lost, the Assembly has a policy of revoking the ordination of any pastor who teaches eternal security.

Offline .:Lily:.

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Re: The Foursquare Church
« Reply #6 on: Sun Jan 13, 2013 - 19:36:29 »
I do not agree with this Aimee McPherson. she was the founder of this church:

Quote
"24. In the free moral will power of man, who can backslide, apostatize, and be lost."


This is worse than just arminianism... yak... :(  I do not believe in this nonsense..

Quote
27. In Christian perfection and holiness, through absolute surrender and consecration. 25. In the maintenance of good works and holy living.

oh my my perfection ??!

Is this some sort of a Neo-Catholicism ?

Not at all.  It is mainstream Wesleyan Holiness doctrine.

Quote
Quote
Equality - The Foursquare Gospel Church rejects anti-Semitism and all ethnic discrimination. Since its founding by Aimee Semple McPherson, the church has ordained female ministers, and women are active throughout the church.


The Jews killed Jesus. That is a fact and calling it anti-Semitism does not bother me!

Quoting a historic fact is not antisemitism any more than saying Japan bombed Pearl Harbor is anti-Asian.  Blaming Japanese today IS discriminatory. The Jews today (especially the Messianics) should not be discriminated against.
   
Quote
Quote
In obedience to civil government.

huh? what does this mean really? so weird.. ::shrug::

It means that the NT teaches us to obey the laws of the land unless they directly violate a scriptural command.


Quote
I want to find a "safe" biblical charismatic church. so far it seems only AOG works for me, because the vineyard is like 35-40 min drive by a car! :/

Well I hate to break it to you but both Calvary Chapel and Vineyard are direct offshoots of the Four Square denomination.

And the Assembly of God is more Wesleyan Holiness than the Four Square is. As to the issue of salvation being lost, the Assembly has a policy of revoking the ordination of any pastor who teaches eternal security.



Quote
“Well I hate to break it to you but both Calvary Chapel and Vineyard are direct offshoots of the Four Square denomination.
And the Assembly of God is more Wesleyan Holiness than the Four Square is. As to the issue of salvation being lost, the Assembly has a policy of revoking the ordination of any pastor who teaches eternal security. “

That is odd about the Assembly of God! I liked the minister who is still doing the spiritual warfare for me now. Do you know what the differences between Pentecostals and AsOG are? The AOG ministry seems different from the PC ministry I visited before. 
 
The AOG minister told me about the FourSquare church and I really loved it, but there are few things that seem weird or maybe foreign to me: We were taught that salvation can’t be lost in the Reformed Anglican Church and it is biblical. We were taught three main theologies that they claim to be correct (not true). It is like a LINE that makes you closer to Protestantism or Catholicism in the Anglican Church. While we are all closer to Protestantism in the L.A.C wing, we also accept Anglo-Catholics. I was taught things that would make me a catholic “small c” especially when it comes to Mary.  ::shrug::

Quote
“Not at all.  It is mainstream Wesleyan Holiness doctrine.”

I guess I understand what they mean now because I was confused when they said that we are saved by grace alone, and then all of these points about “good work” and holiness. but it makes sense to me now.

Quote
“Quoting a historic fact is not antisemitism any more than saying Japan bombed Pearl Harbor is anti-Asian.  Blaming Japanese today IS discriminatory. The Jews today (especially the Messianics) should not be discriminated against.”

I believe Jews are the smartest people on earth but it is not helping them to find Christ and believe it or not, sometimes it is because of us. Jesus was a Jew and he was murdered by them but it is not over yet. There are still so many antichrist Jews in the world today. Not accepting Christ after everything he did for them is like killing him every day. The religious people (sometime they are Christians, Muslims, Jews or sometimes even atheists can be so religious!) Those need to be rebuked so badly because it is the way God dealt with religions people in the bible. You have people who do not want to hear the truth sometimes. When you’re kind to them then you’re enabling them to just be the way they are now. It is also beneficial for them because many religious people follow the OT and they understand that language better. I’m only speaking about the religious ones. Jesus hated religion and yes he was not very kind to some of them.
Messianic Jews are Christians. I have no problem with them. We may disagree on few things but we are brothers and sisters in Christ.

Offline Willie T

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Re: The Foursquare Church
« Reply #7 on: Sun Jan 13, 2013 - 22:17:52 »
Quote from: DaveW
Well I hate to break it to you but both Calvary Chapel and Vineyard are direct offshoots of the Four Square denomination.

Easy, Dave.  Let's not get too carried away there.  While Chuck went to a 42 School, and pastored in that denomination for 17 years, he became dissatisfied with it, and was working as a carpenter in 1965, teaching bible classes at home when his boss asked him to pastor a small independent church that was about to close its doors.  (The boss was on the church board)  The little church was called Cavalry Chapel.

And although Chuck hired Kenn, and he (Kenn) got a couple of Vineyard spin-offs started, he didn't plan on leading a new movement.  John took the reins, and did all the heavy lifting in the Vineyard startup movement (which Chuck wanted no part of), and his background, believe it, or not, was Quaker.
« Last Edit: Sun Jan 13, 2013 - 22:20:27 by Willie T »

Offline .:Lily:.

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Re: The Foursquare Church
« Reply #8 on: Sun Jan 13, 2013 - 22:48:04 »
Quote from: DaveW
Well I hate to break it to you but both Calvary Chapel and Vineyard are direct offshoots of the Four Square denomination.


Easy, Dave.  Let's not get too carried away there.  While Chuck went to a 42 School, and pastored in that denomination for 17 years, he became dissatisfied with it, and was working as a carpenter in 1965, teaching bible classes at home when his boss asked him to pastor a small independent church that was about to close its doors.  (The boss was on the church board)  The little church was called Cavalry Chapel.

And although Chuck hired Kenn, and he (Kenn) got a couple of Vineyard spin-offs started, he didn't plan on leading a new movement.  John took the reins, and did all the heavy lifting in the Vineyard startup movement (which Chuck wanted no part of), and his background, believe it, or not, was Quaker.



Willie, Both Foursquare and Vineyard are great churches. But, I almost love everything about the Foursquare even the name is awesome!

You may want some Foursquare upbeat!

"Forever" UG Worship UNOFFICIAL ROUGH CUT Small | Large


Offline Willie T

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Re: The Foursquare Church
« Reply #9 on: Mon Jan 14, 2013 - 21:30:59 »
Quote from: DaveW
Well I hate to break it to you but both Calvary Chapel and Vineyard are direct offshoots of the Four Square denomination.


Easy, Dave.  Let's not get too carried away there.  While Chuck went to a 42 School, and pastored in that denomination for 17 years, he became dissatisfied with it, and was working as a carpenter in 1965, teaching bible classes at home when his boss asked him to pastor a small independent church that was about to close its doors.  (The boss was on the church board)  The little church was called Cavalry Chapel.

And although Chuck hired Kenn, and he (Kenn) got a couple of Vineyard spin-offs started, he didn't plan on leading a new movement.  John took the reins, and did all the heavy lifting in the Vineyard startup movement (which Chuck wanted no part of), and his background, believe it, or not, was Quaker.



Willie, Both Foursquare and Vineyard are great churches. But, I almost love everything about the Foursquare even the name is awesome!

You may want some Foursquare upbeat!

"Forever" UG Worship UNOFFICIAL ROUGH CUT
My wife and I attended a 42 church for about a year.  Not our thing.  A lot of Pentecostal emotionalism, but not much "Word", and no noticeable gifts other than some tongues.  (At least, that was our view of it.)
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 14, 2013 - 21:36:41 by Willie T »

Offline DaveW

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Re: The Foursquare Church
« Reply #10 on: Tue Jan 15, 2013 - 12:01:13 »
Quote
the Assembly of God is more Wesleyan Holiness than the Four Square is. As to the issue of salvation being lost, the Assembly has a policy of revoking the ordination of any pastor who teaches eternal security. “
That is odd about the Assembly of God! I liked the minister who is still doing the spiritual warfare for me now. Do you know what the differences between Pentecostals and AsOG are? The AOG ministry seems different from the PC ministry I visited before. 

Classic Pentecostalism got its start at the Azuza Street (in Los Angeles) revival of 1906. That was the birth.  The conception came in Topeka KS in 1901 at Bethel Bible College. The college taught the Wesleyan Holiness doctrine and several students started fasting and praying for the "second work of grace" which Holiness teaching said was "total sanctification."  they started speaking in tongues. The College was run by a preacher named Parnham who started a multiracial denomination called the "Church of God in Christ and in unity with the Apostolic Faith."

A young African American man named W. J. Seymour was one of those students and 5 years later started the Azuza street revival. He reached mostly poor uneducated blacks in Los Angeles,  In 1916 the group split along racial lines with the Assembly of God being the white part and the black part retaining the "Church of God in Christ" name.

There are other denominations that are classic or neo pentecostal and almost all of them draw their doctrinal stance from that Wesleyan Holiness position Parnham taught. It is not until you get to the Charismatic renewal of the 1960s that you start to get Calvinist Reform congregations and Catholic congregations (even Orthodox) coming into the pentecostal/charismatic fold.

 
Quote
there are few things that seem weird or maybe foreign to me: We were taught that salvation can’t be lost in the Reformed Anglican Church and it is biblical. We were taught three main theologies that they claim to be correct (not true). It is like a LINE that makes you closer to Protestantism or Catholicism in the Anglican Church. While we are all closer to Protestantism in the L.A.C wing, we also accept Anglo-Catholics. I was taught things that would make me a catholic “small c” especially when it comes to Mary.  ::shrug::

Actually it looks like that line would be between Calvinist Reform and Catholic positions.  Protestantism has many more versions than just Reform Calvinist, including the Wesleyan which came directly from Anglican. For almost 2 centuries the Methodist church in the US was called the Methodist Episcopal Church.  The majority black part of that is still called the African Methodist Episcopal Church. (AME)

Hope you don't mind a history lesson. ::smile::

Offline .:Lily:.

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Re: The Foursquare Church
« Reply #11 on: Wed Jan 16, 2013 - 00:13:56 »
Quote
the Assembly of God is more Wesleyan Holiness than the Four Square is. As to the issue of salvation being lost, the Assembly has a policy of revoking the ordination of any pastor who teaches eternal security. “
That is odd about the Assembly of God! I liked the minister who is still doing the spiritual warfare for me now. Do you know what the differences between Pentecostals and AsOG are? The AOG ministry seems different from the PC ministry I visited before. 

Classic Pentecostalism got its start at the Azuza Street (in Los Angeles) revival of 1906. That was the birth.  The conception came in Topeka KS in 1901 at Bethel Bible College. The college taught the Wesleyan Holiness doctrine and several students started fasting and praying for the "second work of grace" which Holiness teaching said was "total sanctification."  they started speaking in tongues. The College was run by a preacher named Parnham who started a multiracial denomination called the "Church of God in Christ and in unity with the Apostolic Faith."

A young African American man named W. J. Seymour was one of those students and 5 years later started the Azuza street revival. He reached mostly poor uneducated blacks in Los Angeles,  In 1916 the group split along racial lines with the Assembly of God being the white part and the black part retaining the "Church of God in Christ" name.

There are other denominations that are classic or neo pentecostal and almost all of them draw their doctrinal stance from that Wesleyan Holiness position Parnham taught. It is not until you get to the Charismatic renewal of the 1960s that you start to get Calvinist Reform congregations and Catholic congregations (even Orthodox) coming into the pentecostal/charismatic fold.

 
Quote
there are few things that seem weird or maybe foreign to me: We were taught that salvation can’t be lost in the Reformed Anglican Church and it is biblical. We were taught three main theologies that they claim to be correct (not true). It is like a LINE that makes you closer to Protestantism or Catholicism in the Anglican Church. While we are all closer to Protestantism in the L.A.C wing, we also accept Anglo-Catholics. I was taught things that would make me a catholic “small c” especially when it comes to Mary.  ::shrug::

Actually it looks like that line would be between Calvinist Reform and Catholic positions.  Protestantism has many more versions than just Reform Calvinist, including the Wesleyan which came directly from Anglican. For almost 2 centuries the Methodist church in the US was called the Methodist Episcopal Church.  The majority black part of that is still called the African Methodist Episcopal Church. (AME)

Hope you don't mind a history lesson. ::smile::

Thank you that was helpful. You have manna from me!

Offline .:Lily:.

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Re: The Foursquare Church
« Reply #12 on: Wed Jan 16, 2013 - 00:45:51 »
Quote from: DaveW
Well I hate to break it to you but both Calvary Chapel and Vineyard are direct offshoots of the Four Square denomination.


Easy, Dave.  Let's not get too carried away there.  While Chuck went to a 42 School, and pastored in that denomination for 17 years, he became dissatisfied with it, and was working as a carpenter in 1965, teaching bible classes at home when his boss asked him to pastor a small independent church that was about to close its doors.  (The boss was on the church board)  The little church was called Cavalry Chapel.

And although Chuck hired Kenn, and he (Kenn) got a couple of Vineyard spin-offs started, he didn't plan on leading a new movement.  John took the reins, and did all the heavy lifting in the Vineyard startup movement (which Chuck wanted no part of), and his background, believe it, or not, was Quaker.



Willie, Both Foursquare and Vineyard are great churches. But, I almost love everything about the Foursquare even the name is awesome!

You may want some Foursquare upbeat!

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My wife and I attended a 42 church for about a year.  Not our thing.  A lot of Pentecostal emotionalism, but not much "Word", and no noticeable gifts other than some tongues.  (At least, that was our view of it.)



Willie, please no criticism for my new home! :(


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A lot of Pentecostal emotionalism, but not much "Word", and no noticeable gifts other than some tongues.


Hey hey... watch out. I'm becoming a Pentecostal now.

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well actually I would like to be charismatic but with "caution." a little.

There is nothing wrong with "emotionalism" Pentecostals love the lord so much but they seem weirdos sometimes. They are Spirit-filled believers. They are ALIVE, but sometimes they can be extreme and scary... That is why I did not want to go for a mainstream church.

The Foursquare seems "balanced" in everything and it works for me :)

Yes, I have a lot of emotions and i need to release it ALL for Jesus what is wrong with that ?

... or i can find another church and maybe take lots of good naps inside? *yawns*

I only attended a one sermon. They also have house meetings. I have no doubt that i found my new home! :)
« Last Edit: Wed Jan 16, 2013 - 01:49:02 by .:Lily:. »

Offline Red Baker

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Re: The Foursquare Church
« Reply #13 on: Wed Jan 16, 2013 - 04:41:05 »
I refuse to speak against something, unless I see for my own self, so I went to two different ones of these type of churches (I thought best to go to at least two; so in a mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established) with my wife about two years to see what I already knew, via TV~and at both places I stayed about twenty minutes and got up and left.   These people use music and we might add, youth, more than older people, to work their worshippers into a frenzy spirit, to labor to moved their fleshly part of them into believing that they are worshipping in spirit and truth! But it is not even close to NT worship.  Do I believe that there are some sincere people among these people?  No doubt, but what does being sincere in false worship means to God?  Nothing.  Just that they are sincerely deceive people.  I could have much more respect for a group of people if they come together to labor to worship God in teaching and preaching as their primary objection, with music as a very small part of their worship, and having some errors.  I Cor. 14 is our perfect model to follow, not these modern day churches, who work their followers week after week into that ungodly FRENZY SPIRIT, that's more out of the bottomless pit, then heaven sent.

RB
« Last Edit: Wed Jan 16, 2013 - 04:47:17 by Red Baker »

Offline chosenone

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Re: The Foursquare Church
« Reply #14 on: Wed Jan 16, 2013 - 05:00:35 »
Lily its what you believe that matters, and if you feel at home there then brilliant, you go girl.


Offline Red Baker

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Re: The Foursquare Church
« Reply #15 on: Wed Jan 16, 2013 - 05:22:11 »
Lily its what you believe that matters, and if you feel at home there then brilliant, you go girl.



Greetings Chosenone,

It is not about what Lily believes that matters, or what Red believes that matters, but what saith the word of God.  We must live by every word of God, not what pleases us.  The scriptures are our guide in every decisions, that we make, those decisions must be governed by God's will, not ours.

RB

Offline Red Baker

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Re: The Foursquare Church
« Reply #16 on: Wed Jan 16, 2013 - 06:34:01 »
I refuse to speak against something, unless I see for my own self, so I went to two different ones of these type of churches (I thought best to go to at least two; so in a mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established) with my wife about two years to see what I already knew, via TV~and at both places I stayed about twenty minutes and got up and left.   These people use music and we might add, youth, more than older people, to work their worshippers into a frenzy spirit, to labor to moved their fleshly part of them into believing that they are worshipping in spirit and truth! But it is not even close to NT worship.  Do I believe that there are some sincere people among these people?  No doubt, but what does being sincere in false worship means to God?  Nothing.  Just that they are sincerely deceive people.  I could have much more respect for a group of people if they come together to labor to worship God in teaching and preaching as their primary objection, with music as a very small part of their worship, and having some errors.  I Cor. 14 is our perfect model to follow, not these modern day churches, who work their followers week after week into that ungodly FRENZY SPIRIT, that's more out of the bottomless pit, then heaven sent.

RB

Check out Yahoo's main page~Even Meagan Fox said that she got caught up into that "Frenzy spirit" while going to those type of churches!  Of course she did not use those exact words, yet the experience was the same!

RB

Offline .:Lily:.

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Re: The Foursquare Church
« Reply #17 on: Wed Jan 16, 2013 - 18:01:36 »
I refuse to speak against something, unless I see for my own self, so I went to two different ones of these type of churches (I thought best to go to at least two; so in a mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established) with my wife about two years to see what I already knew, via TV~and at both places I stayed about twenty minutes and got up and left.   These people use music and we might add, youth, more than older people, to work their worshippers into a frenzy spirit, to labor to moved their fleshly part of them into believing that they are worshipping in spirit and truth! But it is not even close to NT worship.  Do I believe that there are some sincere people among these people?  No doubt, but what does being sincere in false worship means to God?  Nothing.  Just that they are sincerely deceive people.  I could have much more respect for a group of people if they come together to labor to worship God in teaching and preaching as their primary objection, with music as a very small part of their worship, and having some errors.  I Cor. 14 is our perfect model to follow, not these modern day churches, who work their followers week after week into that ungodly FRENZY SPIRIT, that's more out of the bottomless pit, then heaven sent.

RB



It is not a frenzy spirit IF you stop listening to the devil.

We do not get it with our head we get it with our hearts. Yes I’m going to have JOY in the Lord. It makes Satan and his demons angry.

Romans 14:17:
For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and JOY in the Holy Spirit.

Romans 15:13:
May the God of hope fill you with all JOY and PEACE in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope.

Galatians 5:22-23:
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things THERE IS NO LAW.

Acts 13:52:
And the disciples were filled with JOY AND with the Holy Spirit.

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“and at both places I stayed about twenty minutes and got up and left.   These people use music and we might add, youth, more than older people, to work their worshippers into a frenzy spirit, to labor to moved their fleshly part of them into believing that they are worshipping in spirit and truth! But it is not even close to NT worship”


So you're saying that you turned your back at God because we use music and because we are young people? There is no room in my heart for a religion. We hate religion.

The moment I entered the church and saw children, young people, families and elders I knew it was God calling me to be there. I experienced those people and I never witnessed people who loved Jesus more than them. I’m happy to be among Spirit-filled Christians. Some believers are filled with the Holy Spirit and teach the bible. Others are filled by the Holy Spirit and worship and praise. I have no problem with anyone. I only have a problem with your accusations because I know it is NOT from God.
 
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“not these modern day churches, who work their followers week after week into that ungodly FRENZY SPIRIT, that's more out of the bottomless pit, then heaven sent.”


In Jesus all things became NEW! Yes, I’ll worship God and I’ll dance in joy to Jesus and I’ll be filled by HIS Spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:17:
Therefore, if anyone is in the Messiah, he is a new creation. Old things have disappeared, and—look!—all things have become NEW!”

I also want to be RE- baptized again at my new church!

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Quote
It is not about what Lily believes that matters, or what Red believes that matters, but what saith the word of God.  We must live by every word of God, not what pleases us.  The scriptures are our guide in every decisions, that we make, those decisions must be governed by God's will, not ours.


This Church was suggested to me by a Pastor who truly knows why I need to be there AFTER counseling. I did not know it until she spoke to me about it and another church called Sovereign Grace Ministries. After all, I posted this to discuss few points about the church. Now that I decided it already do not hinder me from walking to God. I did not post this so you can attack my new home.

Offline Willie T

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Re: The Foursquare Church
« Reply #18 on: Wed Jan 16, 2013 - 18:22:52 »
Don't sweat it, Lily.  A lot of older people just cannot wrap their heads around God inhabiting the praises of His people.  Religious roots sink their talons in deep, and they hang on tenaciously.

It's sad, but any "emotion" shown in the "sacred church building" is often labeled as something almost evil.  I'd like to be able to say "They'll learn", but I kind of doubt it in most cases.
« Last Edit: Wed Jan 16, 2013 - 18:26:04 by Willie T »

Offline DaveW

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Re: The Foursquare Church
« Reply #19 on: Thu Jan 17, 2013 - 14:16:53 »

well actually I would like to be charismatic but with "caution." a little.

Well - there are charismatics and then there are charis-maniacs.  Unfortunately the latter seem to outnumber the former.

Offline .:Lily:.

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Re: The Foursquare Church
« Reply #20 on: Thu Jan 17, 2013 - 15:27:37 »

well actually I would like to be charismatic but with "caution." a little.


Well - there are charismatics and then there are charis-maniacs.  Unfortunately the latter seem to outnumber the former.


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True, charismatic and Pentecostal with a seat belt works for me!  ::blushing::