Christian Forums and Message Board

Christian Interests => Organized Religion and Religious Movements Discussions => Topic started by: sajang on Fri Nov 27, 2009 - 23:53:33

Title: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: sajang on Fri Nov 27, 2009 - 23:53:33


 ::announcment::

Where is God’s True Church to Day?

Is there a true church in this world today? And if so, how can it be identified?
Thousands of different church denominations claim to be following Jesus Christ.
Yet they teach thousands of different “gospels
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: HRoberson on Thu Dec 17, 2009 - 23:24:01
You'll find it at my house.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: desertknight on Mon Dec 28, 2009 - 16:52:39
It's the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus, Himself, 2,000 years ago.  It's the one with all the marks...

http://www.ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/churb2.htm   ::priest::
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: HRoberson on Wed Jan 06, 2010 - 19:58:31
It's the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus, Himself, 2,000 years ago.  It's the one with all the marks...

[url]http://www.ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/churb2.htm [/url]  ::priest::
...so this makes three of them, at least.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: desertknight on Thu Jan 07, 2010 - 08:15:56
It's the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus, Himself, 2,000 years ago.  It's the one with all the marks...

[url]http://www.ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/churb2.htm [/url]  ::priest::
...so this makes three of them, at least.


Three?  Is your Church Apostolic?  Ordained by the the line of the Apostles?
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: HRoberson on Mon Jan 18, 2010 - 19:35:39
It's my understanding that the Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Coptic Orthodox denominations claim to be the true Holy Apostolic Church.

Which one is it, exactly?

....and why does it matter?
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: trifecta on Tue Jan 19, 2010 - 19:21:25
It's my understanding that the Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Coptic Orthodox denominations claim to be the true Holy Apostolic Church.


True.   Also, the Assyrian Churches of the East.  That's all that I know of.    

Quote
Which one is it, exactly?


Orthodox  ::smile::

Quote
....and why does it matter?

I prefer to be in the church established by Jesus Christ.   The one in which the gates of hades won't prevail. (Matt 16:18).   Is there salvation outside of Christ's church?  I think so, but I would rather be in Jesus' church.   Wouldn't you?


 
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: desertknight on Mon Jan 25, 2010 - 12:17:27
It's my understanding that the Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Coptic Orthodox denominations claim to be the true Holy Apostolic Church.

Which one is it, exactly?

....and why does it matter?
Actually, we Catholics acknowledge their Apostolic Authority and Succession.  Our schism, separateness, with them is not the same as with Protestants.  Among Protestants, (hopefully the majority), are true Christians, but they are separated from the Church as individuals.  Their doctrinal views are so diverse it is impossible to say with certainty who among them are Christian and who have beliefs that fall far outside Christianity.   FYI, the Orthodox are not "denominations", they are the separated individual churches of the one true Church.  Their Bishops have true authority, their sacraments, true validity.  We pray and work tirelessly for our reunification.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: HRoberson on Wed Mar 31, 2010 - 12:30:29
I wasn't addressing the "true church." Only that each of the factions claim to be the original and that the others are schismatics, not holding to the true tradition and practice of the original church.

Whether Protestant faith communities are to diverse to determine who are real Christians is debateable.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: desertknight on Fri Apr 09, 2010 - 07:28:06
I wasn't addressing the "true church." Only that each of the factions claim to be the original and that the others are schismatics, not holding to the true tradition and practice of the original church.

Whether Protestant faith communities are to diverse to determine who are real Christians is debateable.

Each of the "factions" do not claim to be original, by any means.  That is what is tripping you up.  We Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox have disputes over some issues, but they do not have a different historic view of the Church than we do.  They think of the Roman Catholic Church in the west as part of the "true Church", from the begining, just as we do them.  That is not the nature of our dispute.  That is why I am saying that some of the posts here are presuming a conflict of competing claims where there is none.   We Catholics do not think that the Eastern Orthodox Churches were created in AD 1054.  They were created at Christ's founding just as we Catholics were.  We were all One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, but went into schism over a thousand years later.  That does not mean that anyone was started at a later date.  

Protestantism on the other hand is in a completely different category.  It is a literal invention with a clear genesis in it's creators like Luther, Calvin, etc.   It has no Apostolic Succession or authority and does not claim any as a major point of their doctrine, (Sola Scriptura).  It can't trace it's history before the 16th century and is so diverse in basic doctrine that "it", isn't even really an "it", but a mass collection of jumbled ideas across a wide spectrum.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: chestertonrules on Fri May 07, 2010 - 09:31:25
It's my understanding that the Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Coptic Orthodox denominations claim to be the true Holy Apostolic Church.

Which one is it, exactly?

....and why does it matter?

There is only one Catholic Church.

All other Christian Churches came from this Church.

Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Thankfulldad on Fri May 07, 2010 - 09:41:19
Where is God’s True Church to Day?

You will not find the true church as a building or a group of people.

You will find it in the heart of each believer; Jesus is our husband we are His bride (the church)...it is a relationship between the two.  Jesus and us (believers).

Jesus did not come to save a church; He came to save you and me...

If you claim your church is the one true church...then, others can be sure; that it is not. 
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: trifecta on Fri May 07, 2010 - 19:27:01
It's my understanding that the Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Coptic Orthodox denominations claim to be the true Holy Apostolic Church.

Which one is it, exactly?

....and why does it matter?

There is only one Catholic Church.

All other Christian Churches came from this Church.


Simplicity is not necessarily truth.  Desert's answer is quite good, actually.  Pretend that the GM is the true church.  Toyota, Honda, and Ford are Protestants.  They're all cars but don't have the same root.  Chevrolet, GMC, Buick, and Cadillac can all make the claim they are the original.  GMC may say, "yeah, but we have GM in our name."  This doesn't make it more legitimate than the other three.  Names aren't everything.   
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: trifecta on Fri May 07, 2010 - 19:32:02
If you claim your church is the one true church...then, others can be sure; that it is not. 

Dad,

I was once fooled by this argument too.  It's a Protestant invention.  In the first 1500 years
of Christianity, everyone claimed they were the in only true church.  I can't think of one Christian (or pseudo-Christian) sect to claim they are only as good as the next church.

Why is it such a stretch to think that the one true religion (Christianity) would have one true church?   

Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Seriousseeker on Tue May 18, 2010 - 13:14:12
"Why is it such a stretch to think that the one true religion (Christianity) would have one true church? " 

Thanks!  That is a critical question, Trifecta.  I believe that expressing the truth of the "one body in Christ" (Rom.12 and 1 Cor. 12 and Eph. 4 and Phil. 2, etc.) is being ignored by most Christians in this sectarian world.

God doesn't call us to mergers or amalgamation.   I believe the site at www.biblecounsel.homestead.com seeks to show the need of unity according to the Word.  You might check it out.  Our preferences is not the mind of God (note Isa. 55:8).

- Seriousseeker
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: chestertonrules on Sun May 30, 2010 - 19:10:08
It's my understanding that the Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Coptic Orthodox denominations claim to be the true Holy Apostolic Church.

Which one is it, exactly?

....and why does it matter?

There is only one Catholic Church.

All other Christian Churches came from this Church.


Simplicity is not necessarily truth.  Desert's answer is quite good, actually.  Pretend that the GM is the true church.  Toyota, Honda, and Ford are Protestants.  They're all cars but don't have the same root.  Chevrolet, GMC, Buick, and Cadillac can all make the claim they are the original.  GMC may say, "yeah, but we have GM in our name."  This doesn't make it more legitimate than the other three.  Names aren't everything.   


True, but it's not a matter of names, it's a matter of history and truth.

Jesus started a single Church.  The apostles were unified in doctrine, and the early Christians sought the rule of Church leaders to clarify disputes.


When did this first change?
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Seriousseeker on Fri Jul 09, 2010 - 02:00:05
The Holy Spirit established the universal church as in Acts 2, and the apostles were ordained to teach it and propagate it.  After the apostles were removed it continued by the work of the Spirit in ordination of believers and elders in the various assemblies.  There is no such thing as "apostolic succession" as the RC religion and some others like to say.  We do not look to men, but to the Lord and His Spirit in the true church today.

If one is talking about where to find a scriptural expression of the true church, that is a different matter.  As a guide one might find a sound expression of the scriptural order through such as www.biblecounsel.homestead.com

- Seriousseeker
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Lifesaver on Sat Jul 10, 2010 - 15:54:01


 ::announcment::

Where is God’s True Church to Day?

Is there a true church in this world today? And if so, how can it be identified?..............

But once I saw the accuracy of the Bible predictions, I realized God can not lie.
That is peoples interpretation of the Bible, that make God lies.

There is only one safe thing to do with truth - obey it! You cannot get over it, around it, or through it. It won't go away, and it will not change. We don't break God's law; it breaks us if we disobey it.
Thank you God for your blessings, for giving  and trusting me to be your Sanctuary Amen.
 ::amen!::   ::pray::



The potential true church of God is inside each one on us.  If you truely want to follow God in truth, speak to Him directly in your mind and He will guide you how you can do that.

There is not currently any organisation/religion/church on this planet that folloows the word of God completely.  If this is what you are looking for, you will be disappointed. Each one of the lacks something and if you have a close relationship with God (communicating with Him in your mind regularly), you will be able to know what is lacking.  Also read the bible daily.

When it comes to serving God truely, each person is on his/her own and each person is God's church - you can make yourself a true church or an untrue church, depending on how you follow/live God's words during your lifetime.

Lifesaver     ::announcment::
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: trifecta on Tue Jul 13, 2010 - 11:05:06
Dear Lifesafer,

I admire the piety of Protestants, but most feel free to interpret Scripture anyway they want, without regard to context or history.

There is no way, when looking at history or Scripture, to say that the church is in your heart.  Yes, your body is your temple, but it is not the church.

Church, at its minimal definition from the Greek, is a gathering of believers. Religion in ancient times was never a personal philosophy but communal.

I am so pleased to be in community with fellow believers.  Church can be a beautiful thing as can being alone in prayer but they are not the same thing.

Thank you for reading.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Enow on Fri Jul 16, 2010 - 07:43:28
1 Corinthians 6: 19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?  20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

As the church is subjected to Christ, that applies to every individual believer as well.  The believers are not subjected to a church:  they are subjected to Christ.  If the church was persecuted and the building destroyed, the believers are still subjected to Christ.

One cannot avoid seeing the personal relationship that every believer has as they are to be the chaste bride to the Bridegroom.

Ephesians 5:23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;  26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,  27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.  28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.  29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:  30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.  31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.  32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

It is a work of iniquity when the church has leaders that sit in Moses seats to rule and not to serve as an example by seeking to serve and not be served.  Seems America has changed the service of the leaders as ones like politicians as in instead of being public servants, the public are serving them:  Seems being a preacher is a career choice as I had heard of a pastor of a church that did not believe in God, but was doing that as a career.  His wife and son believes and hopes that he will see the error of the evolution theory, but again, it goes to point that being a preacher these days as "qualified" by a college degree opens the field of pastoring a church to being a career choice:  not God's calling.

So one can see the importance of Jesus being the Good Shepherd and not a pastor nor a church because they may not be subjected to Christ Jesus in all things.  This is when believers that are subjected to Christ are to serve the church by setting the examples and correcting trespasses by the word of God so that every believer as well as the church are subjected to Christ in following Him. 

Colossians 1:18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Colossians 1:24Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

As it is, routines and complacency is what causing alot of believers to be  ::sleepingsoundly::
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: trifecta on Fri Jul 16, 2010 - 10:09:10
Greetings, Enow. 


As the church is subjected to Christ, that applies to every individual believer as well.  The believers are not subjected to a church:  they are subjected to Christ.  If the church was persecuted and the building destroyed, the believers are still subjected to Christ.
Actually we are supposed to submit to authorities, including church authorities. (Heb 13)

Quote
It is a work of iniquity when the church has leaders that sit in Moses seats to rule and not to serve as an example by seeking to serve and not be served.

True, but Jesus encouraged people to listen to the guy in the Moses seat (Mat 23:2).  Under your calculation, if there is ever a bad leader you can dump the whole institution.
This is not what the Bible says.

Quote
Seems America has changed the service of the leaders as ones like politicians as in instead of being public servants, the public are serving them:  Seems being a preacher is a career choice as I had heard of a pastor of a church that did not believe in God, but was doing that as a career.  His wife and son believes and hopes that he will see the error of the evolution theory, but again, it goes to point that being a preacher these days as "qualified" by a college degree opens the field of pastoring a church to being a career choice:  not God's calling.

True, this is a problem.  But this is what to expect when anyone can establish a church whenever he feels like it without approval of church authorities.

Quote
So one can see the importance of Jesus being the Good Shepherd and not a pastor nor a church because they may not be subjected to Christ Jesus in all things.


Who of us is subjected to Christ in all things?  What is the alternative you propose?
Taking direction only from God.  This isn't scriptural and can (and often does) lead to meglomania.

One of the things I love about my church is its rich tradition which clergy must agree to uphold.  This tradition includes great saints, martyrs, and, yes, preachers. 
Want to know the truth?  The church is the "pillar and foundation" of the truth. (I Tim 3:15)

The question to answer is which church.

Quote
  As it is, routines and complacency is what causing alot of believers to be  ::sleepingsoundly::

Maybe so, but creative worship is not necessarily virtue.  The unfortunate thing about it: you can do it only once before it becomes a routine.

There is a name when we really examine something we have read many times before.  It is called meditation and that's not a bad thing.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Enow on Fri Jul 16, 2010 - 14:03:16
Greetings, Enow. 


Greetings, trifecta.

Quote
As the church is subjected to Christ, that applies to every individual believer as well.  The believers are not subjected to a church:  they are subjected to Christ.  If the church was persecuted and the building destroyed, the believers are still subjected to Christ.

Actually we are supposed to submit to authorities, including church authorities. (Heb 13)


Elders, deacons, and the pastors are the only immediate church authority that any assembly are to have as they are to be examples as well as subjective to Christ, and no one else above the church.  It is explained that the meaning of the name, The Nicolaitanes, mean a heirarchy that is established over the laity.

http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/why-does-god-hate-practices-of-the-nicolaitans.html (http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/why-does-god-hate-practices-of-the-nicolaitans.html)

So while some may contest between the meaning of the deeds of the Nicolaitans and the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, the meaning of the name should decalre what they are about.

Quote
Quote
It is a work of iniquity when the church has leaders that sit in Moses seats to rule and not to serve as an example by seeking to serve and not be served.


True, but Jesus encouraged people to listen to the guy in the Moses seat (Mat 23:2).  Under your calculation, if there is ever a bad leader you can dump the whole institution.
This is not what the Bible says.


Actually, it is when a house or an assembly does not hear you, then you are to depart.  If one can correct within the assembly or excommunicate those contrary, then you have an assembly of likeminded believers contending for the faith and showing love for one another in their walks with Jesus.

Matthew 10: 12And when ye come into an house, salute it.  13And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.  14And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

We are not to forsake the assembly:

Hebrews 10: 24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:  25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

And yet we are not to have fellowship with works of darkness but rather reprove them.

Ephesians 5:10Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

But when a church does not heed and patronize, leave.

Quote
Quote
Seems America has changed the service of the leaders as ones like politicians as in instead of being public servants, the public are serving them:  Seems being a preacher is a career choice as I had heard of a pastor of a church that did not believe in God, but was doing that as a career.  His wife and son believes and hopes that he will see the error of the evolution theory, but again, it goes to point that being a preacher these days as "qualified" by a college degree opens the field of pastoring a church to being a career choice:  not God's calling.


True, this is a problem.  But this is what to expect when anyone can establish a church whenever he feels like it without approval of church authorities.


"Church authorities" or not, you can only correct error by the scriptures.  God is able to call fishermen into the ministries:  no college degree needs be the qualification for anyone when if God is leading them.

2 Corinthians 3: 5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Quote
Quote
So one can see the importance of Jesus being the Good Shepherd and not a pastor nor a church because they may not be subjected to Christ Jesus in all things.



Who of us is subjected to Christ in all things?  What is the alternative you propose?
Taking direction only from God.  This isn't scriptural and can (and often does) lead to meglomania.


The problem here is when a church believes they can do no wrong.

Did you have the Promise Keepers' program in your church?  Did your church experienced the "holy laughter" movement?  These two plumblines was sent out in 1994, permitted by God, to see who would depart from faith to resorting to their own power and/or chase after other gods.  The two movements were ecumenical in nature in gathering grapes of thorns and figs of thistles and although the banner waved is no longer highlighted presently, it proves that the church is asleep.

How could such a thing occur in these churches.  When they had a little leaven that allowed it to leaven into a whole lump.  From the commitment to follow Christ for the assurance of salvation presented at the altar call by a famous preacher and by the Nicene creed that broadened the way in the worship place to include the Holy Spirit as a sole worship even from the hymnals, thus allowed man to resort to more bondages in living the christian life in the Pormise Keepers program and allow spirits to steal the spotlight in the worship place when the real indwelling Holy Spirit will not speak of Himself so that He may testify of the Son in seeking the glory of the Son.

Indeed, a faithful witness as led by the Holy Spirit would only testify of the Son in seeking His glory which is the mind of Christ to be having in fellwoship and worship as God the Father cannot be honoured nor glorified except through the Son... and that is what the Holy Spirit Whom is God also, is leading believers to do so that they serve nothing else in His name nor glorify anything else in His name as the name of Jesus is above every other name.

Quote
One of the things I love about my church is its rich tradition which clergy must agree to uphold.  This tradition includes great saints, martyrs, and, yes, preachers. 
Want to know the truth?  The church is the "pillar and foundation" of the truth. (I Tim 3:15)

The question to answer is which church.


That is the question when Jesus cryptically prophesied that because of false prophets, only a few will find the faith because the way has been broadened in how we approach God the Father other than by way of the Son.

Pride cometh before the fall.  If the falling away of the faith is prophesied to occur, and I dare say that it has, maybe the church should stop trying to save face and instead, defend the faith by pruninbg away words and practises that are not representative of that faith.  Little things that have been picked up along the way, adding more as time goes by, is nothing short but a lobster in a slowly boiling kettle.

Time to go to Jesus in prayers for some serious prunings.

Quote
Quote
  As it is, routines and complacency is what causing alot of believers to be  ::sleepingsoundly::


Maybe so, but creative worship is not necessarily virtue.  The unfortunate thing about it: you can do it only once before it becomes a routine.

There is a name when we really examine something we have read many times before.  It is called meditation and that's not a bad thing.


Actually, creative worship is what is getting the church in trouble in the first place.  They were creative about the Nicene creed and still no one saw the small leaven in it.  The Holy Spirit Whom will not speak of himself, is not seeking to be worshipped nor glorified with the Father and the Son.  John 5:22-23 & John 13:31-32 leaves the Third Person of the Trinity out of this mind of Christ we are to have since we are led by the Spirit to testify of the Son to glorify the Son to the glory of God the Father. 

And the fact that the Holy Spirit is NOT the Giver of Life, but Jesus Christ is, proves how the creativity of man.. which the Nicene creed was done in ecumenical format to draw all churches together in agreement with the RCC, proves it is an agreement non-Catholics christians should not be making.

John 6: 32Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.  33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.  34Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.  35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

John 11: 25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

So the Holy Spirit is not the Giver of Life.

Semantics?  That is the cop out excuse used by churches that do not seek to have their words and deeds reproved to be found abiding in Him.  Either we bear a faithful witness, or we are lost in the creativity that has been crept into the churches not supported by the scriptures from the early secular history of the churches.

2 Corinthians 6: 14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?  15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?  16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.  17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.  18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: T.R. on Wed Jul 21, 2010 - 14:46:12
Good question

We find the true church by knowing its characteristics, which are revealed in the New Testament.  Then, man tries to either model or match those same characteristics as closely as possible in whatever time frame he lives in.  We know God's blessing and authority were present in the Ist Century.  If we practice, teach, or build on the same foundation it's the same building.  Now everyone gets afraid and runs away because basically that's pattern theology.  Which IMO is alot better ground to stand on than "maybe, maybe not."  That being said, I don't think we have to agree on every point.


Personally, if I were looking for a "True church today" why would I start anywhere else except the New Testament.


TR

Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Lifesaver on Sat Jul 24, 2010 - 11:27:20
Dear Lifesafer,

I admire the piety of Protestants, but most feel free to interpret Scripture anyway they want, without regard to context or history.

There is no way, when looking at history or Scripture, to say that the church is in your heart.  Yes, your body is your temple, but it is not the church.

Church, at its minimal definition from the Greek, is a gathering of believers. Religion in ancient times was never a personal philosophy but communal.

I am so pleased to be in community with fellow believers.  Church can be a beautiful thing as can being alone in prayer but they are not the same thing.

Thank you for reading.



"I am so pleased to be in community with fellow believers.  Church can be a beautiful thing as can being alone in prayer but they are not the same thing."

Do not misunderstand me.  Of course, as God said "... when two or more meet together in my name I will be present ..,"  Christians of the same faith need to meet together to keep their faith alive and socialise.

The point I am making is that even within any one congretation in any church at any one time, each individual is answerable to God directly.  If you as an individual is a true serant to God, then you are part of God's 'church'.  If you are not a true servant to God then you are not part of His 'church'.  As simple as that.  It does not matter  where you are in a big congregation of people all cl[b][/b]aimng to 'worship/serve' God ...


Lifesaver  ::announcment::       

Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: stevehut on Wed Aug 04, 2010 - 02:17:16
There is no such thing as "apostolic succession" as the RC religion and some others like to say.  


Can you demonstrate this from Bible or from history?

A lot of Protestant denom's require their preachers to have a demonstrable lineage in their own group.  That is, a preacher in one denom generally won't be accepted as a preacher in a church of a different denom, because he doesn't have the right sectarian "credentials."  Not saying it's right or wrong, but it does seem very similar.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: stevehut on Wed Aug 04, 2010 - 02:25:59
There is only one Catholic Church.  All other Christian Churches came from this Church.


Are you sure?   ::shrug::

Celtic churches (England) and Coptic churches (Egypt) can trace their beginnings to the 1-2 centuries.  Nothing I've seen in any historical record, implies that either of them operated under the authority of any mother church.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: larry2 on Wed Aug 04, 2010 - 04:49:30
The Church is the body of Christ made up of every believer in Christ regardless of their spirituality or carnal organization they have attached themselves to. 1 Corinthians 3:4  "For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?" Brag on your affiliation and Paul called it carnal or fleshy.
  
Revelation 2:1    Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus.
Revelation 2:8    And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna.
Revelation 2:12  And to the angel of the church in Pergamos.
Revelation 2:18  And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira.
Revelation 3:1    And unto the angel of the church in Sardis.
Revelation 3:7    And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia.
Revelation 3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans.

Yes, all of the above are the Church despite their condition. Five are told to rtepent and two are given crowns and commended. The Church is an organism; not an organization. Christ is the head and we are members of His body. To answer the question "Where will I find God's true Church to day?" It is anyone that has called upon the name of the Lord and their state or spiritual condition is described in Revelation Chapters Two and Three. Their standing in the body is based on one thing; are they washed in the blood of the Lamb?        
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Visionary on Sun Oct 03, 2010 - 22:34:16
Scattered...
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: chestertonrules on Wed Oct 13, 2010 - 11:18:49
It's my understanding that the Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Coptic Orthodox denominations claim to be the true Holy Apostolic Church.

Which one is it, exactly?

....and why does it matter?

Which one is built upon Peter?
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: larry2 on Wed Oct 13, 2010 - 13:58:05

Which Church is built upon the ROCK Jesus. Read of its qualities and lack thereof in Revelation Chapters Two and Three. Read of that to be praised and rewarded, and that portion needing to repent and deserving of chastisement.

Jesus is the Rock of our salvation and a stumblingstone to those who do not believe. Where is God's true Church today? It consists of everyone that has called upon the name of the Lord.

Romans 10:13-14  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14  How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Visionary on Wed Oct 13, 2010 - 14:08:21

Which Church is built upon the ROCK Jesus. Read of its qualities and lack thereof in Revelation Chapters Two and Three. Read of that to be praised and rewarded, and that portion needing to repent and deserving of chastisement.

Jesus is the Rock of our salvation and a stumblingstone to those who do not believe. Where is God's true Church today? It consists of everyone that has called upon the name of the Lord.

Romans 10:13-14  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14  How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?


Gods church today as everyday because God does not change are those to whom Christ has been revealed by the Father.

Luke 10:22
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: marc on Wed Oct 13, 2010 - 15:30:39
To answer the OP, out in the world, doing the work of the body of Christ.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: marc on Wed Oct 13, 2010 - 15:31:56
It's the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus, Himself, 2,000 years ago.  It's the one with all the marks...

[url]http://www.ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/churb2.htm [/url]  ::priest::
...so this makes three of them, at least.


Three?  Is your Church Apostolic?  Ordained by the the line of the Apostles?


Yep.

We do have trouble with the marks (love and unity, according to scripture) at times, though.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: marc on Wed Oct 13, 2010 - 15:33:23
It's my understanding that the Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Coptic Orthodox denominations claim to be the true Holy Apostolic Church.

Which one is it, exactly?

....and why does it matter?

I met a guy on another board the other day who said he could prove the Baptists were the One True Church that could be traced back to the apostles. And I've known those in another church that some here might have heard of that have said the same.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Visionary on Wed Oct 13, 2010 - 16:29:19
Marks...Exodus 13:9

 ::noworries::
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Snargles on Thu Oct 14, 2010 - 19:32:45
I know my congregation is the one true church because on the cornerstone of our building it says "FOUNDED AD 33." [Wierd I know, but it is a Church of Christ thing]
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Seriousseeker on Wed Oct 20, 2010 - 14:50:19
Most of us realize that such a question as this thread raises will be debated until the Lord comes, because of various preferences.  Some professing Christians prefer the High organized religions, some like Pentecostalism, some believe they are the church???,  some believe it is their denomination or wherever one chooses.

I believe God does indeed have a testimony in this world as to His intent in the beginning as in Acts 2 and the Epistles.  I also believe I understand that intent from what the Word shows (not that I claim to know it all).  If one would like to discuss this further they may write to me personally and I will share what I have found and chat with you, but I will not try to lay it all out here beyond what I said in my post above at the beginning.  God bless all faithful seekers!

- Seriousseeker
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Josiah on Wed Oct 27, 2010 - 15:29:11
.


Where there is faith in Christ, there is the church.


The church is the one, holy, catholic communion of believers; thus where there are believers - there is at least part of the church.




.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: chestertonrules on Fri Oct 29, 2010 - 14:58:35
.


Where there is faith in Christ, there is the church.


The church is the one, holy, catholic communion of believers; thus where there are believers - there is at least part of the church.




.

Even the demons believe.

Faith in Christ is a meaningless expression without a more specific definition.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Wed Nov 03, 2010 - 00:06:07
The kingdom of God does not come with observation.  Nobody should say, 'Look it's here!' or, 'look there!'   As you can see for yourself, the kingdom of God is within you.

The days will come, when you will desire to see the Son of Man come in judgment, but you won't see it.  And the teachers and scholars will say to you, 'See, here!' or, 'See there!'  Do not go after them, nor follow them!!!

Jesus in Luke 17, paraphrased
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: JohnOneOne on Fri Nov 11, 2011 - 14:08:52
Just as you have started to do, start with the Bible,...that is, begin by making a list of the qualities which the Bible outlines for those that would be true Christians.

I personally like what 1 Corinthians 1:10 has to say, especially if this is seen as direct evidence that God's Spirit and Blessing are present among them.

Agape, JohnOneOne.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: DaveW on Tue Jan 03, 2012 - 12:21:42
As I see it, During the book of Acts, there were 2 church organizations started.  One under the original apostles that was VERY JEWISH and continued on for about 400 years known as the Sect of the Nazoreans.

The other church network was started by Paul and sought to NOT be Jewish (see Acts 15).

Both were equally legitimate in both teaching and practice although they differed. See the discussion between James (as leader of the Jerusalem network) and Paul as leader of the mostly gentile network and how the first accused Paul of teaching Jews to abandon Torah. (which was not true)  That is in Acts 21.

The orthodox/catholic stream came from the Pauline network.  The other, older network called "Sect of the Nasoreans" died out in the very early 5th century.

Modern Messianic Judaism is an attempt to resurrect the Nazorean branch of the body.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: FireSword on Tue Jan 03, 2012 - 12:39:21
As I see it, During the book of Acts, there were 2 church organizations started.  One under the original apostles that was VERY JEWISH and continued on for about 400 years known as the Sect of the Nazoreans.

The other church network was started by Paul and sought to NOT be Jewish (see Acts 15).

Both were equally legitimate in both teaching and practice although they differed. See the discussion between James (as leader of the Jerusalem network) and Paul as leader of the mostly gentile network and how the first accused Paul of teaching Jews to abandon Torah. (which was not true)  That is in Acts 21.

The orthodox/catholic stream came from the Pauline network.  The other, older network called "Sect of the Nasoreans" died out in the very early 5th century.

Modern Messianic Judaism is an attempt to resurrect the Nazorean branch of the body.

Interesting. Perhaps then the resurected Nazarean branch will bring the true works of Christ to the table, which the world desperately needs.

Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: DaveW on Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 05:34:27
Perhaps then the resurected Nazarean branch will bring the true works of Christ to the table, which the world desperately needs.
Perhaps. But at this point we are many decades away from being mature enough to do that in more than just scattered instances.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: current occupant on Fri Jan 06, 2012 - 22:00:06
It's my understanding that the Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Coptic Orthodox denominations claim to be the true Holy Apostolic Church.

Which one is it, exactly?

....and why does it matter?

Seventh-day Adventist's claim to be the only true church....  The remnant church of Bible prophecy......Baptismal vow #13

13. Do you accept and believe that the Seventh-day Adventist Church
is the remnant church of Bible prophecy and that people of every nation,
race, and language are invited and accepted into its fellowship? Do you desire
to be a member of this local congregation of the world Church?

The reasons for this teaching are covered in previous vows...  summerizing as "they keep the commandments of God (Saturday Sabbath) and have the spirit of prophecy"  (Ellen White)

Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: DaveW on Tue Jan 10, 2012 - 07:59:56
Seventh-day Adventist's claim to be the only true church....  The remnant church of Bible prophecy......Baptismal vow #13

13. Do you accept and believe that the Seventh-day Adventist Church
is the remnant church of Bible prophecy and that people of every nation,
race, and language are invited and accepted into its fellowship? Do you desire
to be a member of this local congregation of the world Church?

The reasons for this teaching are covered in previous vows...  summerizing as "they keep the commandments of God (Saturday Sabbath) and have the spirit of prophecy"  (Ellen White)
Hmmm.  Sounds like the Messianics fit that bill as well as the Adventists, but without the antisemitism and replacement theory.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: ChristNU on Tue Jan 10, 2012 - 08:28:30
The Church is the body of Christ made up of every believer in Christ regardless of their spirituality or carnal organization they have attached themselves to. 1 Corinthians 3:4  "For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?" Brag on your affiliation and Paul called it carnal or fleshy.
  
Revelation 2:1    Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus.
Revelation 2:8    And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna.
Revelation 2:12  And to the angel of the church in Pergamos.
Revelation 2:18  And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira.
Revelation 3:1    And unto the angel of the church in Sardis.
Revelation 3:7    And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia.
Revelation 3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans.

Yes, all of the above are the Church despite their condition. Five are told to rtepent and two are given crowns and commended. The Church is an organism; not an organization. Christ is the head and we are members of His body. To answer the question "Where will I find God's true Church to day?" It is anyone that has called upon the name of the Lord and their state or spiritual condition is described in Revelation Chapters Two and Three. Their standing in the body is based on one thing; are they washed in the blood of the Lamb?        



It appears the question was answered correctly way back in 2010. God's church is not confined to any building, organization or institution. Christ's church is His people, indwelt by Him and expressing His character to the world. Where His people gather together is not the church...it is those people themselves who are the church, and where they gather is irrelevant.


Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: trifecta on Sun Jan 15, 2012 - 22:36:34
Sorry, NU, your answer is common among these circles but not correct.  The church has to gather (by definition).  People who believe (in anything) have no reason to gather.  I am not saying defining the church is easy, but it can't be the Protestant view for the reason I just explained.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Norton on Sun Feb 19, 2012 - 20:51:51
Would the true Catholic Church exit if Rome ceased to exist, such that the chair of Peter had to be relocated? A hypothetical, but interesting question.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: mclees8 on Mon May 28, 2012 - 12:07:08
It's my understanding that the Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Coptic Orthodox denominations claim to be the true Holy Apostolic Church.


True.   Also, the Assyrian Churches of the East.  That's all that I know of.    

Quote
Which one is it, exactly?


Orthodox  ::smile::

Quote
....and why does it matter?

I prefer to be in the church established by Jesus Christ.   The one in which the gates of hades won't prevail. (Matt 16:18).   Is there salvation outside of Christ's church?  I think so, but I would rather be in Jesus' church.   Wouldn't you?


 

First the church is estblished in the heart of every true believer that loves Jesus as Lord. This is not an instututional thing. Its not an order or hierarchy nor denominational and when the vatican and church buildings are a burning ruins and the devil does his best to stamp you out your faith will not die because our salvation is eternally established in the heart and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: .( 2 Co 3:3-4)

9 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: ( Eze 11:19)

 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. .( Jn 14:16-17)

6 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? (1 Co 3:16-17)

This is where the New Covenant  church is established  and the gates of hell cannot prevail against it
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: NewDay on Tue Aug 28, 2012 - 11:49:57


 ::announcment::

Where is God’s True Church to Day?

Is there a true church in this world today? And if so, how can it be identified?
Thousands of different church denominations claim to be following Jesus Christ.
Yet they teach thousands of different “gospels

You won't find it by going to a stone building, although there are true believer's amongst them. Denominationalism is the work of satan....while God knows who are His, among them...and, even outside of them.

Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Lively Stone on Tue Aug 28, 2012 - 12:00:44


 ::announcment::

Where is God’s True Church to Day?

Is there a true church in this world today? And if so, how can it be identified?
Thousands of different church denominations claim to be following Jesus Christ.
Yet they teach thousands of different “gospels

You won't find it by going to a stone building, although there are true believer's amongst them. Denominationalism is the work of satan....while God knows who are His, among them...and, even outside of them.



 ::amen!::  Manna to you.
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: HRoberson on Tue Aug 28, 2012 - 14:57:33
Quote
Sorry, NU, your answer is common among these circles but not correct.  The church has to gather (by definition).  People who believe (in anything) have no reason to gather.  I am not saying defining the church is easy, but it can't be the Protestant view for the reason I just explained.


Well, not really. The church does gather, but it does not need to in order to be the church. NU is correct in that the church, correctly understood, is the People of God, a nation. It lives God; it does not primarily meet to worship God (although it does that too).
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Ladonia on Wed Aug 29, 2012 - 09:40:31


 ::announcment::

Where is God’s True Church to Day?

Is there a true church in this world today? And if so, how can it be identified?
Thousands of different church denominations claim to be following Jesus Christ.
Yet they teach thousands of different “gospels

You won't find it by going to a stone building, although there are true believer's amongst them. Denominationalism is the work of satan....while God knows who are His, among them...and, even outside of them.



Yes, denominalationism is the work of the evil one and they all came out of one  denomination where earthly religious authority resided. This all can be traced back historically. Ever heard of the early church fathers? Universalists (catholic), every one of them.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: NewDay on Wed Aug 29, 2012 - 09:48:10


 ::announcment::

Where is God’s True Church to Day?

Is there a true church in this world today? And if so, how can it be identified?
Thousands of different church denominations claim to be following Jesus Christ.
Yet they teach thousands of different “gospels

You won't find it by going to a stone building, although there are true believer's amongst them. Denominationalism is the work of satan....while God knows who are His, among them...and, even outside of them.



 ::amen!::  Manna to you.


 ::tippinghat:: Back atcha.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: NewDay on Wed Aug 29, 2012 - 09:52:45


 ::announcment::

Where is God’s True Church to Day?

Is there a true church in this world today? And if so, how can it be identified?
Thousands of different church denominations claim to be following Jesus Christ.
Yet they teach thousands of different “gospels

You won't find it by going to a stone building, although there are true believer's amongst them. Denominationalism is the work of satan....while God knows who are His, among them...and, even outside of them.



Yes, denominalationism is the work of the evil one and they all came out of one  denomination where earthly religious authority resided. This all can be traced back historically. Ever heard of the early church fathers? Universalists (catholic), every one of them.

Wasn't there false teachers in Paul's day, long before Catholocism?

Just a thought.

Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Snargles on Wed Aug 29, 2012 - 11:59:46
. Ever heard of the early church fathers? Universalists (catholic), every one of them.
All uninspired men. Worth reading but they didn't have a corner on the mind of God any more than Rick Warren, Tom Wright or Ken Sublett.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Ladonia on Wed Aug 29, 2012 - 22:00:19
. Ever heard of the early church fathers? Universalists (catholic), every one of them.
All uninspired men. Worth reading but they didn't have a corner on the mind of God any more than Rick Warren, Tom Wright or Ken Sublett.

Oh really? So, you mean that some of the first people of the emerging Christian Church (after the Apostles) who formulated the basic christian doctrines that we believe in to this day, the men who called the various councils into being to combat arising heresies, and who  were the ones who codified the Holy Scriptures (New Testament) are on par with the Rick Warrens of today? rofl
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Ladonia on Wed Aug 29, 2012 - 22:08:37


 ::announcment::

Where is God’s True Church to Day?

Is there a true church in this world today? And if so, how can it be identified?
Thousands of different church denominations claim to be following Jesus Christ.
Yet they teach thousands of different “gospels

You won't find it by going to a stone building, although there are true believer's amongst them. Denominationalism is the work of satan....while God knows who are His, among them...and, even outside of them.



Yes, denominalationism is the work of the evil one and they all came out of one  denomination where earthly religious authority resided. This all can be traced back historically. Ever heard of the early church fathers? Universalists (catholic), every one of them.

Wasn't there false teachers in Paul's day, long before Catholocism?

Just a thought.



Sure, but the truth always arose in the end. God would not allow a false gospel to be preached for any great length of time. The truth was laid out there for all to see, then summarily rejected by those who thought they knew better than the accumulated knowledge of the Universal (catholic) Church.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Snargles on Wed Aug 29, 2012 - 22:37:44
. Ever heard of the early church fathers? Universalists (catholic), every one of them.
All uninspired men. Worth reading but they didn't have a corner on the mind of God any more than Rick Warren, Tom Wright or Ken Sublett.

Oh really? So, you mean that some of the first people of the emerging Christian Church (after the Apostles) who formulated the basic christian doctrines that we believe in to this day, the men who called the various councils into being to combat arising heresies, and who  were the ones who codified the Holy Scriptures (New Testament) are on par with the Rick Warrens of today? rofl
That is exactly what I mean. NO writer outside the Bible has any authority and is only expressing his own opinon. If he spent more time studying scriptures than I have (and many of them did), he might have better insight as to the meaning of the inspired writers but I have as much potential to understand scripture as Origen, Hippolytus, John Chrystom, Ireneus, Thomas Aquanis or Augustine. I don't pay attention to what Rick Warren has to say and I don't pay any attention to the church fathers. I need to study the writings of Augustine more because many false teachings originated with him. Luke, Peter, Paul, Jude, James, John and the writer of Hebrews wrote as they were directed by God. The church fathers gave their own opinions. To say otherwise is to blaspheme God and his scripture.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: NewDay on Thu Aug 30, 2012 - 07:47:27


 ::announcment::

Where is God’s True Church to Day?

Is there a true church in this world today? And if so, how can it be identified?
Thousands of different church denominations claim to be following Jesus Christ.
Yet they teach thousands of different “gospels

You won't find it by going to a stone building, although there are true believer's amongst them. Denominationalism is the work of satan....while God knows who are His, among them...and, even outside of them.



Yes, denominalationism is the work of the evil one and they all came out of one  denomination where earthly religious authority resided. This all can be traced back historically. Ever heard of the early church fathers? Universalists (catholic), every one of them.

Wasn't there false teachers in Paul's day, long before Catholocism?

Just a thought.



Sure, but the truth always arose in the end. God would not allow a false gospel to be preached for any great length of time. The truth was laid out there for all to see, then summarily rejected by those who thought they knew better than the accumulated knowledge of the Universal (catholic) Church.

True, but His church was never a 'denomination' to begin with, and it is not today, so those who look for truth in them, are looking in the wrong place.

Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life!

If everyone heard His voice, there would be no 'denominations'.

Amen?
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Willie T on Thu Aug 30, 2012 - 08:21:17
Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life!

If everyone heard His voice, there would be no 'denominations'.

Amen?
Ah...... Did we leave out a few words?  "If everyone heard His voice, the same way I hear His voice, there would be no 'denominations'." 
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: mclees8 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 - 21:04:31
Where is God’s True Church to Day?

You will not find the true church as a building or a group of people.

You will find it in the heart of each believer; Jesus is our husband we are His bride (the church)...it is a relationship between the two.  Jesus and us (believers).

Jesus did not come to save a church; He came to save you and me...

If you claim your church is the one true church...then, others can be sure; that it is not. 

Thank you thankfull dad   ::wave::    ::preachit::
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: NewDay on Fri Aug 31, 2012 - 09:31:21
Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life!

If everyone heard His voice, there would be no 'denominations'.

Amen?
Ah...... Did we leave out a few words?  "If everyone heard His voice, the same way I hear His voice, there would be no 'denominations'."

Not what I implied at all, but it is true that IF everyone heard HIS voice, there would be no denominations; they are the work of men, not God.

They divide, while Jesus Christ unites; and it is via the Holy Spirit, that always speaks the same word/truth.

You will find His true 'body', among all the denominations, and, they do not sit and wait to be taught by men, but, they do listen, and compare it with the word of God/truth.

Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Willie T on Fri Aug 31, 2012 - 10:56:20
Really?  That means you are not hearing God, right?

I mean it's either that, or everyone else in the world is wrong, and only you are right.  After all, you are not in Africa healing and converting people, are you?  Are the thousands of spiritual ones who THINK they are hearing God's voice, and are out there doing those great things for God, THEY aren't?

Might you be leaning a bit toward arrogance to believe that only you (and/or people who sense God as YOU do) are truly hearing God's voice?

In that case, then you must also agree that it's more than likely someone obviously more powerfully in God's will than you are is right, and you're wrong in your hearing.

You really might want to rethink this idea you're laboring under.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: NewDay on Fri Aug 31, 2012 - 11:29:43
Really?  That means you are not hearing God, right?

I mean it's either that, or everyone else in the world is wrong, and only you are right.  After all, you are not in Africa healing and converting people, are you?  Are the thousands of spiritual ones who THINK they are hearing God's voice, and are out there doing those great things for God, THEY aren't?

Might you be leaning a bit toward arrogance to believe that only you (and/or people who sense God as YOU do) are truly hearing God's voice?

In that case, then you must also agree that it's more than likely someone obviously more powerfully in God's will than you are is right, and you're wrong in your hearing.

You really might want to rethink this idea you're laboring under.

Here is what I think about your post.

You are not hearing me.

 ::frustrated::

Needless to say, as we all/christians hear God, we act on what we hear.

HINT:

It is a growth process that takes our whole lives, too...for the most part.

As we ACT on what we are given, He gives us more increase....or knowledge to ACT upon more.

Truth and faith are good like that.

Denominationalism is a SET system of beliefs; it does not allow for growth, but are all based on the set commandments of MEN.

I am sorry you are having a hard time understanding me.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Willie T on Fri Aug 31, 2012 - 11:44:08
Well, maybe you'll catch on as you grow older.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: NewDay on Fri Aug 31, 2012 - 12:20:02
Well, maybe you'll catch on as you grow older.

I am sure I will......to truth; not to dispensationalism,  or denominationalism, however. I already know what it is, and is not.

It is not anything but separate systems of doctrines of men.

Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Ladonia on Fri Aug 31, 2012 - 12:46:22
Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life!

If everyone heard His voice, there would be no 'denominations'.

Amen?
Ah...... Did we leave out a few words?  "If everyone heard His voice, the same way I hear His voice, there would be no 'denominations'."

Not what I implied at all, but it is true that IF everyone heard HIS voice, there would be no denominations; they are the work of men, not God.

They divide, while Jesus Christ unites; and it is via the Holy Spirit, that always speaks the same word/truth.

You will find His true 'body', among all the denominations, and, they do not sit and wait to be taught by men, but, they do listen, and compare it with the word of God/truth.



I do not agree. The universal church existed, set up by Christ as a continuing teaching organization. Yes, the divide came about by men, started by those who left orthodoxy. The original church as as an organization still exists.
 
I do agree with one thing though, that all christians who believe that Jesus Christ is God Icarnate here on earth are of the "Body of Christ", but the historical universal christian church that at one time the great majority of the faithful in this world looked to for religious teaching cannot be ignored as if it never existed.
 
But in the end, we all have the free will to choose which christian sect we will look to for help in our spiritual walk. Maybe that's the way it was supposed to be.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Lively Stone on Fri Aug 31, 2012 - 12:54:28
Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life!

If everyone heard His voice, there would be no 'denominations'.

Amen?
Ah...... Did we leave out a few words?  "If everyone heard His voice, the same way I hear His voice, there would be no 'denominations'."

Not what I implied at all, but it is true that IF everyone heard HIS voice, there would be no denominations; they are the work of men, not God.

They divide, while Jesus Christ unites; and it is via the Holy Spirit, that always speaks the same word/truth.

You will find His true 'body', among all the denominations, and, they do not sit and wait to be taught by men, but, they do listen, and compare it with the word of God/truth.



I do not agree. The universal church existed, set up by Christ as a continuing teaching organization. Yes, the divide came about by men, started by those who left orthodoxy. The original church as as an organization still exists.
 
I do agree with one thing though, that all christians who believe that Jesus Christ is God Icarnate here on earth are of the "Body of Christ", but the historical universal christian church that at one time the great majority of the faithful in this world looked to for religious teaching cannot be ignored as if it never existed.
 
But in the end, we all have the free will to choose which christian sect we will look to for help in our spiritual walk. Maybe that's the way it was supposed to be.

The body of Christ gets its teaching from the word of God---not some institutional body. Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. We as individuals teach each other according to our giftings, but there is no central church organization that is responsible for so-called 'religious' teaching.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Fri Aug 31, 2012 - 13:23:59
To respond to tge OP, you won't find it at all in Canada.   Or anywhere near TBN types.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Willie T on Fri Aug 31, 2012 - 13:27:41

But in the end, we all have the free will to choose which christian sect we will look to for help in our spiritual walk. Maybe that's the way it was supposed to be.
Very wise observation.  My wife and I attend a Friday Night Bible study that has in attendance, members from at least four or five different denominations.... and we do a Saturday morning homeless breakfast ministry with even two more denominations represented.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Willie T on Fri Aug 31, 2012 - 13:29:29
To respond to tge OP, you won't find it at all in Canada.   Or anywhere near TBN types.
A fairly dumb blanket statement.

EDIT:  No, I've thought about it, and my remark was wrong.  That statement by Texass was just plain stupid.   
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Snargles on Fri Aug 31, 2012 - 13:56:04
To respond to tge OP, you won't find it at all in Canada.   Or anywhere near TBN types.
Can you explain that one?   ::headscratch::
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: NewDay on Fri Aug 31, 2012 - 14:25:38
Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life!

If everyone heard His voice, there would be no 'denominations'.

Amen?
Ah...... Did we leave out a few words?  "If everyone heard His voice, the same way I hear His voice, there would be no 'denominations'."

Not what I implied at all, but it is true that IF everyone heard HIS voice, there would be no denominations; they are the work of men, not God.

They divide, while Jesus Christ unites; and it is via the Holy Spirit, that always speaks the same word/truth.

You will find His true 'body', among all the denominations, and, they do not sit and wait to be taught by men, but, they do listen, and compare it with the word of God/truth.



I do not agree. The universal church existed, set up by Christ as a continuing teaching organization. Yes, the divide came about by men, started by those who left orthodoxy. The original church as as an organization still exists.
 
I do agree with one thing though, that all christians who believe that Jesus Christ is God Icarnate here on earth are of the "Body of Christ", but the historical universal christian church that at one time the great majority of the faithful in this world looked to for religious teaching cannot be ignored as if it never existed.
 
But in the end, we all have the free will to choose which christian sect we will look to for help in our spiritual walk. Maybe that's the way it was supposed to be.

Well, it is ok to disagree................ ::smile::

If His church was a stone temple, you might have a case.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: NewDay on Fri Aug 31, 2012 - 14:27:58
Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life!

If everyone heard His voice, there would be no 'denominations'.

Amen?
Ah...... Did we leave out a few words?  "If everyone heard His voice, the same way I hear His voice, there would be no 'denominations'."

Not what I implied at all, but it is true that IF everyone heard HIS voice, there would be no denominations; they are the work of men, not God.

They divide, while Jesus Christ unites; and it is via the Holy Spirit, that always speaks the same word/truth.

You will find His true 'body', among all the denominations, and, they do not sit and wait to be taught by men, but, they do listen, and compare it with the word of God/truth.



I do not agree. The universal church existed, set up by Christ as a continuing teaching organization. Yes, the divide came about by men, started by those who left orthodoxy. The original church as as an organization still exists.
 
I do agree with one thing though, that all christians who believe that Jesus Christ is God Icarnate here on earth are of the "Body of Christ", but the historical universal christian church that at one time the great majority of the faithful in this world looked to for religious teaching cannot be ignored as if it never existed.
 
But in the end, we all have the free will to choose which christian sect we will look to for help in our spiritual walk. Maybe that's the way it was supposed to be.

The body of Christ gets its teaching from the word of God---not some institutional body. Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. We as individuals teach each other according to our giftings, but there is no central church organization that is responsible for so-called 'religious' teaching.

Agreed, it is the Spirit that quickens, not men and their 'dogmas'.
Dogmas are good for itching the ear, however.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Ladonia on Fri Aug 31, 2012 - 21:18:41

But in the end, we all have the free will to choose which christian sect we will look to for help in our spiritual walk. Maybe that's the way it was supposed to be.
Very wise observation.  My wife and I attend a Friday Night Bible study that has in attendance, members from at least four or five different denominations.... and we do a Saturday morning homeless breakfast ministry with even two more denominations represented.

That's wonderful, the spirit of ecumenism is truly alive.  Due to the fact that our job entails a lot of travel and we can't get to our own faith tradition, my wife and I will find ourselves at Baptist services quite often. (Chaplins at truck stops).  We all have Christ who binds us together and any religious conversation is kept  at a general level.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Ladonia on Fri Aug 31, 2012 - 21:24:32
Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life!

If everyone heard His voice, there would be no 'denominations'.

Amen?
Ah...... Did we leave out a few words?  "If everyone heard His voice, the same way I hear His voice, there would be no 'denominations'."

Not what I implied at all, but it is true that IF everyone heard HIS voice, there would be no denominations; they are the work of men, not God.

They divide, while Jesus Christ unites; and it is via the Holy Spirit, that always speaks the same word/truth.

You will find His true 'body', among all the denominations, and, they do not sit and wait to be taught by men, but, they do listen, and compare it with the word of God/truth.



I do not agree. The universal church existed, set up by Christ as a continuing teaching organization. Yes, the divide came about by men, started by those who left orthodoxy. The original church as as an organization still exists.
 
I do agree with one thing though, that all christians who believe that Jesus Christ is God Icarnate here on earth are of the "Body of Christ", but the historical universal christian church that at one time the great majority of the faithful in this world looked to for religious teaching cannot be ignored as if it never existed.
 
But in the end, we all have the free will to choose which christian sect we will look to for help in our spiritual walk. Maybe that's the way it was supposed to be.

The body of Christ gets its teaching from the word of God---not some institutional body. Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. We as individuals teach each other according to our giftings, but there is no central church organization that is responsible for so-called 'religious' teaching.

Agreed, it is the Spirit that quickens, not men and their 'dogmas'.
Dogmas are good for itching the ear, however.


Ah, but solid interpretation to me is needed as regards the Holy Scriptures, so I have absoulutely no problem with looking towards those (in the church) whom God has placed above me in this regard. That is where I disagree with you and our friend Lively Stone
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Snargles on Fri Aug 31, 2012 - 22:43:38

But in the end, we all have the free will to choose which christian sect we will look to for help in our spiritual walk. Maybe that's the way it was supposed to be.
Very wise observation.  My wife and I attend a Friday Night Bible study that has in attendance, members from at least four or five different denominations.... and we do a Saturday morning homeless breakfast ministry with even two more denominations represented.

That's wonderful, the spirit of ecumenism is truly alive.  Due to the fact that our job entails a lot of travel and we can't get to our own faith tradition, my wife and I will find ourselves at Baptist services quite often. (Chaplins at truck stops).  We all have Christ who binds us together and any religious conversation is kept  at a general level.
I am not messing with you; this is a sincere question. Aren't you Catholic? Wouldn't you get in all kinds of trouble with your priest at home if he knew you had been to a Baptist service? I thought that was like a major sin for you people. Set me straight.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Lively Stone on Sat Sep 01, 2012 - 02:56:47
Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life!

If everyone heard His voice, there would be no 'denominations'.

Amen?
Ah...... Did we leave out a few words?  "If everyone heard His voice, the same way I hear His voice, there would be no 'denominations'."

Not what I implied at all, but it is true that IF everyone heard HIS voice, there would be no denominations; they are the work of men, not God.

They divide, while Jesus Christ unites; and it is via the Holy Spirit, that always speaks the same word/truth.

You will find His true 'body', among all the denominations, and, they do not sit and wait to be taught by men, but, they do listen, and compare it with the word of God/truth.



I do not agree. The universal church existed, set up by Christ as a continuing teaching organization. Yes, the divide came about by men, started by those who left orthodoxy. The original church as as an organization still exists.
 
I do agree with one thing though, that all christians who believe that Jesus Christ is God Icarnate here on earth are of the "Body of Christ", but the historical universal christian church that at one time the great majority of the faithful in this world looked to for religious teaching cannot be ignored as if it never existed.
 
But in the end, we all have the free will to choose which christian sect we will look to for help in our spiritual walk. Maybe that's the way it was supposed to be.

The body of Christ gets its teaching from the word of God---not some institutional body. Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. We as individuals teach each other according to our giftings, but there is no central church organization that is responsible for so-called 'religious' teaching.

Agreed, it is the Spirit that quickens, not men and their 'dogmas'.
Dogmas are good for itching the ear, however.


Ah, but solid interpretation to me is needed as regards the Holy Scriptures, so I have absoulutely no problem with looking towards those (in the church) whom God has placed above me in this regard. That is where I disagree with you and our friend Lively Stone

It isn't up to the church to teach, but it is up to the Church---we who are the Body of Christ---to teach each other. There is a problem with the idea that there is some central church governing body that is responsible for the handling of all truth. There is no such thing. It is the responsibility of each member of the Body of Christ to avail themselves of the truth and pass it on. that is why God gave us all gifts---that they work together as one Body (of Christ) in the world.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Ladonia on Sat Sep 01, 2012 - 10:44:11

But in the end, we all have the free will to choose which christian sect we will look to for help in our spiritual walk. Maybe that's the way it was supposed to be.
Very wise observation.  My wife and I attend a Friday Night Bible study that has in attendance, members from at least four or five different denominations.... and we do a Saturday morning homeless breakfast ministry with even two more denominations represented.

That's wonderful, the spirit of ecumenism is truly alive.  Due to the fact that our job entails a lot of travel and we can't get to our own faith tradition, my wife and I will find ourselves at Baptist services quite often. (Chaplins at truck stops).  We all have Christ who binds us together and any religious conversation is kept  at a general level.
I am not messing with you; this is a sincere question. Aren't you Catholic? Wouldn't you get in all kinds of trouble with your priest at home if he knew you had been to a Baptist service? I thought that was like a major sin for you people. Set me straight.

No, not a major sin. I have mentioned it to him and he has no problem with ecumenical prayer with other christians, which basically what a Baptist service is (some prayer and preaching). Now I can seperate what the chaplain is saying and what my faith tradition teaches. He knows that we are faithful adherants of the Latin Rite.  For example, I wouldn't take their "communion" of bread and grape juice and think it was the same that we have in the Holy Eucharist. That would be a no, no.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Willie T on Sat Sep 01, 2012 - 10:53:03

But in the end, we all have the free will to choose which christian sect we will look to for help in our spiritual walk. Maybe that's the way it was supposed to be.
Very wise observation.  My wife and I attend a Friday Night Bible study that has in attendance, members from at least four or five different denominations.... and we do a Saturday morning homeless breakfast ministry with even two more denominations represented.

That's wonderful, the spirit of ecumenism is truly alive.  Due to the fact that our job entails a lot of travel and we can't get to our own faith tradition, my wife and I will find ourselves at Baptist services quite often. (Chaplins at truck stops).  We all have Christ who binds us together and any religious conversation is kept  at a general level.
I am not messing with you; this is a sincere question. Aren't you Catholic? Wouldn't you get in all kinds of trouble with your priest at home if he knew you had been to a Baptist service? I thought that was like a major sin for you people. Set me straight.

No, not a major sin. I have mentioned it to him and he has no problem with ecumenical prayer with other christians, which basically what a Baptist service is (some prayer and preaching). Now I can seperate what the chaplain is saying and what my faith tradition teaches. He knows that we are faithful adherants of the Latin Rite.  For example, I wouldn't take their "communion" of bread and grape juice and think it was the same that we have in the Holy Eucharist. That would be a no, no.
I recently went to a Catholic funeral.  And I took (Jesus') communication.  (not a typo)  Not the Catholic Communion... not the Baptist Communion.  Just Jesus' communion as He requested me to do.
 
Several of the "Good" Christians there refused to honor Jesus' request, and would not participate.
 
I think that was a shame.  Communion is between Jesus and me, it's not any institution's rituals..... (Is that the correct term in a Catholic church?)
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Willie T on Sat Sep 01, 2012 - 11:02:02
Here's something my church Book Study Group did on The Misconceptions of Communion.  I think you'll like it.
[youtube]http://youtu.be/Ph8hdlHmzpU (http://youtu.be/Ph8hdlHmzpU)[/youtube]
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Snargles on Sat Sep 01, 2012 - 13:06:58
Ladonia, thanks for clearing that up. Too often we non-Catholics go on what we have heard instead of asking one of you directly.
 
Willie, I like the video. When I used your link the picture was faded out but when I got it from YouTube it looked fine. Good quality production.
I am coming around to thinking like you that we are communing with Christ and not just with the people sitting in the room with us. The Church of Christ has always taught that if we do anything with a church that isn't us we are saying we that we support all that they are doing. By that reasoning, if a crazed gunman shot up half the town we couldn't take part in a community prayer service because we would be saying we support the Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists and everyone else taking part. Just because I eat the Lords Supper surrounded by Presbyterians doesn't make me a Presbyterian.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Willie T on Sat Sep 01, 2012 - 14:22:46
Ladonia, thanks for clearing that up. Too often we non-Catholics go on what we have heard instead of asking one of you directly.
 
Willie, I like the video. When I used your link the picture was faded out but when I got it from YouTube it looked fine. Good quality production.
I am coming around to thinking like you that we are communing with Christ and not just with the people sitting in the room with us. The Church of Christ has always taught that if we do anything with a church that isn't us we are saying we that we support all that they are doing. By that reasoning, if a crazed gunman shot up half the town we couldn't take part in a community prayer service because we would be saying we support the Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists and everyone else taking part. Just because I eat the Lords Supper surrounded by Presbyterians doesn't make me a Presbyterian.
And then there is the reason Jesus asked us to share a meal whenever we got together.  (Yes, passover was not instituted that day.  It was not a somber, hangdog Jewish ritual meant to have us consider how horrible we are... in fact kids LOVE that meal!  They get to do a "Hide-and Seek" for money)  Jesus said to "remember Him" whenever we ate it.  All of Him. His whole life.  And He was a pretty cool dude who gave us all a fantastic gift.
 
We've honestly made it a pity party about us and our sins.  Is that the way you "remember" your relatives who are no longer with us...... an agonizing death on the highway... or a lingering bout with lung cancer... or the chalky make-up you last saw in that casket?
 
And forget not that what they saw and knew of Jesus did not end there.  He walked with, ate with, shared stories with them (hundreds of them) after He arose.
 
Think about what you, yourself have perhaps consigned the whole glorious life of Jesus to be in the few moments you nibble on a little flat wafer and swig some wine or juice.  (By the way,  It wasn't a pitiful skinny little "wafer" he shared with them at that supper.  It was a nice healthy hunk of bread that he pulled apart and passed around.)  We have even made THAT some sort of "sanctified" element of a churchy ritual.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Ladonia on Sat Sep 01, 2012 - 23:40:34

But in the end, we all have the free will to choose which christian sect we will look to for help in our spiritual walk. Maybe that's the way it was supposed to be.
Very wise observation.  My wife and I attend a Friday Night Bible study that has in attendance, members from at least four or five different denominations.... and we do a Saturday morning homeless breakfast ministry with even two more denominations represented.

That's wonderful, the spirit of ecumenism is truly alive.  Due to the fact that our job entails a lot of travel and we can't get to our own faith tradition, my wife and I will find ourselves at Baptist services quite often. (Chaplins at truck stops).  We all have Christ who binds us together and any religious conversation is kept  at a general level.
I am not messing with you; this is a sincere question. Aren't you Catholic? Wouldn't you get in all kinds of trouble with your priest at home if he knew you had been to a Baptist service? I thought that was like a major sin for you people. Set me straight.

No, not a major sin. I have mentioned it to him and he has no problem with ecumenical prayer with other christians, which basically what a Baptist service is (some prayer and preaching). Now I can seperate what the chaplain is saying and what my faith tradition teaches. He knows that we are faithful adherants of the Latin Rite.  For example, I wouldn't take their "communion" of bread and grape juice and think it was the same that we have in the Holy Eucharist. That would be a no, no.
I recently went to a Catholic funeral.  And I took (Jesus') communication.  (not a typo)  Not the Catholic Communion... not the Baptist Communion.  Just Jesus' communion as He requested me to do.
 
Several of the "Good" Christians there refused to honor Jesus' request, and would not participate.
 
I think that was a shame.  Communion is between Jesus and me, it's not any institution's rituals..... (Is that the correct term in a Catholic church?)

You might have to clear this up for me here. Communication? Communion? Did you or did you not receive Christ in the Holy Eucharist at a Latin Rite Mass?
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Ladonia on Sat Sep 01, 2012 - 23:52:49
Ladonia, thanks for clearing that up. Too often we non-Catholics go on what we have heard instead of asking one of you directly.
 
Willie, I like the video. When I used your link the picture was faded out but when I got it from YouTube it looked fine. Good quality production.
I am coming around to thinking like you that we are communing with Christ and not just with the people sitting in the room with us. The Church of Christ has always taught that if we do anything with a church that isn't us we are saying we that we support all that they are doing. By that reasoning, if a crazed gunman shot up half the town we couldn't take part in a community prayer service because we would be saying we support the Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists and everyone else taking part. Just because I eat the Lords Supper surrounded by Presbyterians doesn't make me a Presbyterian.
And then there is the reason Jesus asked us to share a meal whenever we got together.  (Yes, passover was not instituted that day.  It was not a somber, hangdog Jewish ritual meant to have us consider how horrible we are... in fact kids LOVE that meal!  They get to do a "Hide-and Seek" for money)  Jesus said to "remember Him" whenever we ate it.  All of Him. His whole life.  And He was a pretty cool dude who gave us all a fantastic gift.
 
We've honestly made it a pity party about us and our sins.  Is that the way you "remember" your relatives who are no longer with us...... an agonizing death on the highway... or a lingering bout with lung cancer... or the chalky make-up you last saw in that casket?
 
And forget not that what they saw and knew of Jesus did not end there.  He walked with, ate with, shared stories with them (hundreds of them) after He arose.
 
Think about what you, yourself have perhaps consigned the whole glorious life of Jesus to be in the few moments you nibble on a little flat wafer and swig some wine or juice.  (By the way,  It wasn't a pitiful skinny little "wafer" he shared with them at that supper.  It was a nice healthy hunk of bread that he pulled apart and passed around.)  We have even made THAT some sort of "sanctified" element of a churchy ritual.

I don't care for the way you have  put it my friend. The "pitiful, skinny little wafer" as you put it, through God's miracle we (Catholics) believe contains the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, proclaimed by the teachings of the Church. I see you seem to not like "rituals" either. I understand that you may not subscribe to this belief, but perhaps you could at least show a bit more respect concerning these things.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Willie T on Sun Sep 02, 2012 - 13:42:45
You might have to clear this up for me here. Communication? Communion? Did you or did you not receive Christ in the Holy Eucharist at a Latin Rite Mass?
"No, I did not."  I was given a skinny little wafer the size of a quarter that the local diocese purchased at some religious facility by the boxes of a thousand, or so.  Nothing more, nothing less.  I think it was manufactured in Tampa.
 
As I ate it, I communicated with Jesus (my spirit with His spirit) and thanked Him for all He was and is, and all He sacrificed to give me life Eternal.  And at the risk of offending you, I imagine what I ate passed through my digestive tract and left my body some hours later as waste, along with the hamburger I ate later on that day.  Meaning.... It DID NOT "become" Jesus.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Ladonia on Sun Sep 02, 2012 - 19:58:04
You might have to clear this up for me here. Communication? Communion? Did you or did you not receive Christ in the Holy Eucharist at a Latin Rite Mass?
"No, I did not."  I was given a skinny little wafer the size of a quarter that the local diocese purchased at some religious facility by the boxes of a thousand, or so.  Nothing more, nothing less.  I think it was manufactured in Tampa.
 
As I ate it, I communicated with Jesus (my spirit with His spirit) and thanked Him for all He was and is, and all He sacrificed to give me life Eternal.  And at the risk of offending you, I imagine what I ate passed through my digestive tract and left my body some hours later as waste, along with the hamburger I ate later on that day.  Meaning.... It DID NOT "become" Jesus.

I see now, no respect for Christ's teaching regarding the Holy Eucharist as per the Scriptures. And no respect either for another Christian person's faith tradition. 
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Ladonia on Sun Sep 02, 2012 - 19:59:11
You might have to clear this up for me here. Communication? Communion? Did you or did you not receive Christ in the Holy Eucharist at a Latin Rite Mass?
"No, I did not."
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Willie T on Sun Sep 02, 2012 - 20:20:50
You might have to clear this up for me here. Communication? Communion? Did you or did you not receive Christ in the Holy Eucharist at a Latin Rite Mass?
"No, I did not."  I was given a skinny little wafer the size of a quarter that the local diocese purchased at some religious facility by the boxes of a thousand, or so.  Nothing more, nothing less.  I think it was manufactured in Tampa.
 
As I ate it, I communicated with Jesus (my spirit with His spirit) and thanked Him for all He was and is, and all He sacrificed to give me life Eternal.  And at the risk of offending you, I imagine what I ate passed through my digestive tract and left my body some hours later as waste, along with the hamburger I ate later on that day.  Meaning.... It DID NOT "become" Jesus.

I see now, no respect for Christ's teaching regarding the Holy Eucharist as per the Scriptures. And no respect either for another Christian person's faith tradition. 
Christ spoke Latin?  Hey, you can go on beleiving anything you want.  I simply accepted a little wafer at a friend's mother's funeral.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Ladonia on Sun Sep 02, 2012 - 20:39:46
You might have to clear this up for me here. Communication? Communion? Did you or did you not receive Christ in the Holy Eucharist at a Latin Rite Mass?
"No, I did not."  I was given a skinny little wafer the size of a quarter that the local diocese purchased at some religious facility by the boxes of a thousand, or so.  Nothing more, nothing less.  I think it was manufactured in Tampa.
 
As I ate it, I communicated with Jesus (my spirit with His spirit) and thanked Him for all He was and is, and all He sacrificed to give me life Eternal.  And at the risk of offending you, I imagine what I ate passed through my digestive tract and left my body some hours later as waste, along with the hamburger I ate later on that day.  Meaning.... It DID NOT "become" Jesus.

I see now, no respect for Christ's teaching regarding the Holy Eucharist as per the Scriptures. And no respect either for another Christian person's faith tradition. 
Christ spoke Latin?  Hey, you can go on beleiving anything you want.  I simply accepted a little wafer at a friend's mother's funeral.

I once went to a Greek Orthodox service and explained to the priest that I was a Roman Catholic attending their service and asked if I could receive communion there. He said that since I was not a baptized Greek Orthodox person I could not. I RESPECTED his wishes and his Christian faith tradition as it relates to mine
 
You in your arrogance did not do this.  It's more than it being "just a little wafer" and whether Christ spoke "Latin". (I'm sure he could as he was God) I pray that in the future you would reconsider taking such an action. Like I said before, it's all about mutual respect.
 
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Willie T on Sun Sep 02, 2012 - 21:12:50
You might have to clear this up for me here. Communication? Communion? Did you or did you not receive Christ in the Holy Eucharist at a Latin Rite Mass?
"No, I did not."  I was given a skinny little wafer the size of a quarter that the local diocese purchased at some religious facility by the boxes of a thousand, or so.  Nothing more, nothing less.  I think it was manufactured in Tampa.
 
As I ate it, I communicated with Jesus (my spirit with His spirit) and thanked Him for all He was and is, and all He sacrificed to give me life Eternal.  And at the risk of offending you, I imagine what I ate passed through my digestive tract and left my body some hours later as waste, along with the hamburger I ate later on that day.  Meaning.... It DID NOT "become" Jesus.

I see now, no respect for Christ's teaching regarding the Holy Eucharist as per the Scriptures. And no respect either for another Christian person's faith tradition. 
Christ spoke Latin?  Hey, you can go on beleiving anything you want.  I simply accepted a little wafer at a friend's mother's funeral.

I once went to a Greek Orthodox service and explained to the priest that I was a Roman Catholic attending their service and asked if I could receive communion there. He said that since I was not a baptized Greek Orthodox person I could not. I RESPECTED his wishes and his Christian faith tradition as it relates to mine
 
You in your arrogance did not do this.  It's more than it being "just a little wafer" and whether Christ spoke "Latin". (I'm sure he could as he was God) I pray that in the future you would reconsider taking such an action. Like I said before, it's all about mutual respect.
 
Silly man.  The priest actually stood in front of us and explained that we Protestants could take the wafer if we chose, but if we didn't want to, we should cross our hands across our chests as we walked by him.  Either way was fine by him.... or so he said.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Ladonia on Mon Sep 03, 2012 - 06:33:10
You might have to clear this up for me here. Communication? Communion? Did you or did you not receive Christ in the Holy Eucharist at a Latin Rite Mass?
"No, I did not."  I was given a skinny little wafer the size of a quarter that the local diocese purchased at some religious facility by the boxes of a thousand, or so.  Nothing more, nothing less.  I think it was manufactured in Tampa.
 
As I ate it, I communicated with Jesus (my spirit with His spirit) and thanked Him for all He was and is, and all He sacrificed to give me life Eternal.  And at the risk of offending you, I imagine what I ate passed through my digestive tract and left my body some hours later as waste, along with the hamburger I ate later on that day.  Meaning.... It DID NOT "become" Jesus.

I see now, no respect for Christ's teaching regarding the Holy Eucharist as per the Scriptures. And no respect either for another Christian person's faith tradition. 
Christ spoke Latin?  Hey, you can go on beleiving anything you want.  I simply accepted a little wafer at a friend's mother's funeral.

I once went to a Greek Orthodox service and explained to the priest that I was a Roman Catholic attending their service and asked if I could receive communion there. He said that since I was not a baptized Greek Orthodox person I could not. I RESPECTED his wishes and his Christian faith tradition as it relates to mine
 
You in your arrogance did not do this.  It's more than it being "just a little wafer" and whether Christ spoke "Latin". (I'm sure he could as he was God) I pray that in the future you would reconsider taking such an action. Like I said before, it's all about mutual respect.
 
Silly man.  The priest actually stood in front of us and explained that we Protestants could take the wafer if we chose, but if we didn't want to, we should cross our hands across our chests as we walked by him.  Either way was fine by him.... or so he said.

I see -  a renegade priest. Believe me, if he did what you said he was totally wrong. But then you only listened to his instructions and my argument against you here has been off base.
 
In situations which you describe, it has always my experience that the priest says  non-Catholics may come to the altar with their hands across their chests for a blessing only.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Lively Stone on Mon Sep 03, 2012 - 08:56:55
You might have to clear this up for me here. Communication? Communion? Did you or did you not receive Christ in the Holy Eucharist at a Latin Rite Mass?
"No, I did not."  I was given a skinny little wafer the size of a quarter that the local diocese purchased at some religious facility by the boxes of a thousand, or so.  Nothing more, nothing less.  I think it was manufactured in Tampa.
 
As I ate it, I communicated with Jesus (my spirit with His spirit) and thanked Him for all He was and is, and all He sacrificed to give me life Eternal.  And at the risk of offending you, I imagine what I ate passed through my digestive tract and left my body some hours later as waste, along with the hamburger I ate later on that day.  Meaning.... It DID NOT "become" Jesus.

I see now, no respect for Christ's teaching regarding the Holy Eucharist as per the Scriptures. And no respect either for another Christian person's faith tradition. 
Christ spoke Latin?  Hey, you can go on beleiving anything you want.  I simply accepted a little wafer at a friend's mother's funeral.

I once went to a Greek Orthodox service and explained to the priest that I was a Roman Catholic attending their service and asked if I could receive communion there. He said that since I was not a baptized Greek Orthodox person I could not. I RESPECTED his wishes and his Christian faith tradition as it relates to mine
 
You in your arrogance did not do this.  It's more than it being "just a little wafer" and whether Christ spoke "Latin". (I'm sure he could as he was God) I pray that in the future you would reconsider taking such an action. Like I said before, it's all about mutual respect.
 
Silly man.  The priest actually stood in front of us and explained that we Protestants could take the wafer if we chose, but if we didn't want to, we should cross our hands across our chests as we walked by him.  Either way was fine by him.... or so he said.

I see -  a renegade priest. Believe me, if he did what you said he was totally wrong. But then you only listened to his instructions and my argument against you here has been off base.
 
In situations which you describe, it has always my experience that the priest says  non-Catholics may come to the altar with their hands across their chests for a blessing only.

That's disgusting and exactly what religion does---divides. That is why Jesus hates religion.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Willie T on Mon Sep 03, 2012 - 09:53:08
Amen, Lively!
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Ladonia on Mon Sep 03, 2012 - 10:50:12
You might have to clear this up for me here. Communication? Communion? Did you or did you not receive Christ in the Holy Eucharist at a Latin Rite Mass?
"No, I did not."  I was given a skinny little wafer the size of a quarter that the local diocese purchased at some religious facility by the boxes of a thousand, or so.  Nothing more, nothing less.  I think it was manufactured in Tampa.
 
As I ate it, I communicated with Jesus (my spirit with His spirit) and thanked Him for all He was and is, and all He sacrificed to give me life Eternal.  And at the risk of offending you, I imagine what I ate passed through my digestive tract and left my body some hours later as waste, along with the hamburger I ate later on that day.  Meaning.... It DID NOT "become" Jesus.

I see now, no respect for Christ's teaching regarding the Holy Eucharist as per the Scriptures. And no respect either for another Christian person's faith tradition. 
Christ spoke Latin?  Hey, you can go on beleiving anything you want.  I simply accepted a little wafer at a friend's mother's funeral.

I once went to a Greek Orthodox service and explained to the priest that I was a Roman Catholic attending their service and asked if I could receive communion there. He said that since I was not a baptized Greek Orthodox person I could not. I RESPECTED his wishes and his Christian faith tradition as it relates to mine
 
You in your arrogance did not do this.  It's more than it being "just a little wafer" and whether Christ spoke "Latin". (I'm sure he could as he was God) I pray that in the future you would reconsider taking such an action. Like I said before, it's all about mutual respect.
 
Silly man.  The priest actually stood in front of us and explained that we Protestants could take the wafer if we chose, but if we didn't want to, we should cross our hands across our chests as we walked by him.  Either way was fine by him.... or so he said.

I see -  a renegade priest. Believe me, if he did what you said he was totally wrong. But then you only listened to his instructions and my argument against you here has been off base.
 
In situations which you describe, it has always my experience that the priest says  non-Catholics may come to the altar with their hands across their chests for a blessing only.

That's disgusting and exactly what religion does---divides. That is why Jesus hates religion.

You are correct, people who don't believe in the orthodox version of Christanity, who have removed themselves from the sacramental life, who have rejected so much that was handed down from the early days of Christianity, have participated in the division. 

As far as "religion" goes, do you  also ignore the accepted definition of the word too?
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: NewDay on Wed Sep 05, 2012 - 09:47:57
For those who want a man/priest, pastor, etc, to teach you...that is fine, as long as you 'test the spirits', to see if they are of God, and you can only do that by the scriptures themselves..not by taking any man's word for it.

When we are saved, we have no need for no man to teach us, that is the promise of the new covenant, that individually, we shall all KNOW Him, because when He resides in you, you can hear HIS VOICE.

Teachers, in the biblical perspective were to be teaching the gospel to the lost.

Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: NewDay on Wed Sep 05, 2012 - 09:50:37
Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life!

If everyone heard His voice, there would be no 'denominations'.

Amen?
Ah...... Did we leave out a few words?  "If everyone heard His voice, the same way I hear His voice, there would be no 'denominations'."

Not what I implied at all, but it is true that IF everyone heard HIS voice, there would be no denominations; they are the work of men, not God.

They divide, while Jesus Christ unites; and it is via the Holy Spirit, that always speaks the same word/truth.

You will find His true 'body', among all the denominations, and, they do not sit and wait to be taught by men, but, they do listen, and compare it with the word of God/truth.



I do not agree. The universal church existed, set up by Christ as a continuing teaching organization. Yes, the divide came about by men, started by those who left orthodoxy. The original church as as an organization still exists.
 
I do agree with one thing though, that all christians who believe that Jesus Christ is God Icarnate here on earth are of the "Body of Christ", but the historical universal christian church that at one time the great majority of the faithful in this world looked to for religious teaching cannot be ignored as if it never existed.
 
But in the end, we all have the free will to choose which christian sect we will look to for help in our spiritual walk. Maybe that's the way it was supposed to be.

The body of Christ gets its teaching from the word of God---not some institutional body. Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. We as individuals teach each other according to our giftings, but there is no central church organization that is responsible for so-called 'religious' teaching.

Agreed, it is the Spirit that quickens, not men and their 'dogmas'.
Dogmas are good for itching the ear, however.


Ah, but solid interpretation to me is needed as regards the Holy Scriptures, so I have absoulutely no problem with looking towards those (in the church) whom God has placed above me in this regard. That is where I disagree with you and our friend Lively Stone

It isn't up to the church to teach, but it is up to the Church---we who are the Body of Christ---to teach each other. There is a problem with the idea that there is some central church governing body that is responsible for the handling of all truth. There is no such thing. It is the responsibility of each member of the Body of Christ to avail themselves of the truth and pass it on. that is why God gave us all gifts---that they work together as one Body (of Christ) in the world.

Yes, I agree.

Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: NewDay on Wed Sep 05, 2012 - 09:57:09
You might have to clear this up for me here. Communication? Communion? Did you or did you not receive Christ in the Holy Eucharist at a Latin Rite Mass?
"No, I did not."  I was given a skinny little wafer the size of a quarter that the local diocese purchased at some religious facility by the boxes of a thousand, or so.  Nothing more, nothing less.  I think it was manufactured in Tampa.
 
As I ate it, I communicated with Jesus (my spirit with His spirit) and thanked Him for all He was and is, and all He sacrificed to give me life Eternal.  And at the risk of offending you, I imagine what I ate passed through my digestive tract and left my body some hours later as waste, along with the hamburger I ate later on that day.  Meaning.... It DID NOT "become" Jesus.

I see now, no respect for Christ's teaching regarding the Holy Eucharist as per the Scriptures. And no respect either for another Christian person's faith tradition. 
Christ spoke Latin?  Hey, you can go on beleiving anything you want.  I simply accepted a little wafer at a friend's mother's funeral.

I once went to a Greek Orthodox service and explained to the priest that I was a Roman Catholic attending their service and asked if I could receive communion there. He said that since I was not a baptized Greek Orthodox person I could not. I RESPECTED his wishes and his Christian faith tradition as it relates to mine
 
You in your arrogance did not do this.  It's more than it being "just a little wafer" and whether Christ spoke "Latin". (I'm sure he could as he was God) I pray that in the future you would reconsider taking such an action. Like I said before, it's all about mutual respect.
 
Silly man.  The priest actually stood in front of us and explained that we Protestants could take the wafer if we chose, but if we didn't want to, we should cross our hands across our chests as we walked by him.  Either way was fine by him.... or so he said.

I see -  a renegade priest. Believe me, if he did what you said he was totally wrong. But then you only listened to his instructions and my argument against you here has been off base.
 
In situations which you describe, it has always my experience that the priest says  non-Catholics may come to the altar with their hands across their chests for a blessing only.

That's disgusting and exactly what religion does---divides. That is why Jesus hates religion.

I agree.

I do attend a baptist church, and when we have communion, the Pastor is very clear to explains that 'this is not my table', it belongs to the Lord, so 'anyone who has faith, can partake'.

I love that he speaks it this way.

Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Ladonia on Wed Sep 05, 2012 - 10:32:16
For those who want a man/priest, pastor, etc, to teach you...that is fine, as long as you 'test the spirits', to see if they are of God, and you can only do that by the scriptures themselves..not by taking any man's word for it.

When we are saved, we have no need for no man to teach us, that is the promise of the new covenant, that individually, we shall all KNOW Him, because when He resides in you, you can hear HIS VOICE.

Teachers, in the biblical perspective were to be teaching the gospel to the lost.



And the two different people in whom "He" resides look at the same Scriptures and come up with two different interpretation of the same passage then who is right? Who decides?
 
Oh, you will say that we can go to the Scriptures to decide. Ok,  but then whose determination of the new passage we have now gone to, to help decide the passage we are trying to decide is correct? Round and round we go!
 
No, I disagree. We all have the need for a competant religious authority to help decide such things. That's the problem with your argument. Jesus would have just written a book and left us alone with the Holy Spirit to figure things out. The fact is he didn't. Other humans were needed to help guide us. First the Apostles, their successors, and a church.
 
 
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Seriousseeker on Wed Sep 05, 2012 - 12:29:03
Ladonia, I agree with your logic that we need counsel from other saints to gain a fuller understanding of the scriptures, but therein is a problem too.  No man should be THE authority for the Word of God.
 
In our fellowship we try to be careful to not assert our understanding as THE final word or RIGHT interpretation in a Bible study, but set it forth as our view, and may also set forth what esteemed Bible Teachers down through history have shown about the verses before us.  Usually, the elders among us will affirm the understanding from scholars and what other verses or Versions of the Bible show.
 
The assembly as a whole, should distinguish between conscience and essential truth, and those things the Church must hold should be discerned and approved by the whole assembly with the approval of God's elders (not man's appointed leaders).  Everyone may have conscience, but the church universal ought to hold essential truth ---and essential truth is a whole other discussion.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Ladonia on Wed Sep 05, 2012 - 13:21:11
Ladonia, I agree with your logic that we need counsel from other saints to gain a fuller understanding of the scriptures, but therein is a problem too.  No man should be THE authority for the Word of God.
 
In our fellowship we try to be careful to not assert our understanding as THE final word or RIGHT interpretation in a Bible study, but set it forth as our view, and may also set forth what esteemed Bible Teachers down through history have shown about the verses before us.  Usually, the elders among us will affirm the understanding from scholars and what other verses or Versions of the Bible show.
 
The assembly as a whole, should distinguish between conscience and essential truth, and those things the Church must hold should be discerned and approved by the whole assembly with the approval of God's elders (not man's appointed leaders).  Everyone may have conscience, but the church universal ought to hold essential truth ---and essential truth is a whole other discussion.

No argument from me on what you said there. Especially the words "God's elders".
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: NewDay on Thu Sep 06, 2012 - 07:46:29
For those who want a man/priest, pastor, etc, to teach you...that is fine, as long as you 'test the spirits', to see if they are of God, and you can only do that by the scriptures themselves..not by taking any man's word for it.

When we are saved, we have no need for no man to teach us, that is the promise of the new covenant, that individually, we shall all KNOW Him, because when He resides in you, you can hear HIS VOICE.

Teachers, in the biblical perspective were to be teaching the gospel to the lost.



And the two different people in whom "He" resides look at the same Scriptures and come up with two different interpretation of the same passage then who is right? Who decides?
 
Oh, you will say that we can go to the Scriptures to decide. Ok,  but then whose determination of the new passage we have now gone to, to help decide the passage we are trying to decide is correct? Round and round we go!
 
No, I disagree. We all have the need for a competant religious authority to help decide such things. That's the problem with your argument. Jesus would have just written a book and left us alone with the Holy Spirit to figure things out. The fact is he didn't. Other humans were needed to help guide us. First the Apostles, their successors, and a church.

How do you interpret this?

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Ladonia on Thu Sep 06, 2012 - 12:08:16
For those who want a man/priest, pastor, etc, to teach you...that is fine, as long as you 'test the spirits', to see if they are of God, and you can only do that by the scriptures themselves..not by taking any man's word for it.

When we are saved, we have no need for no man to teach us, that is the promise of the new covenant, that individually, we shall all KNOW Him, because when He resides in you, you can hear HIS VOICE.

Teachers, in the biblical perspective were to be teaching the gospel to the lost.



And the two different people in whom "He" resides look at the same Scriptures and come up with two different interpretation of the same passage then who is right? Who decides?
 
Oh, you will say that we can go to the Scriptures to decide. Ok,  but then whose determination of the new passage we have now gone to, to help decide the passage we are trying to decide is correct? Round and round we go!
 
No, I disagree. We all have the need for a competant religious authority to help decide such things. That's the problem with your argument. Jesus would have just written a book and left us alone with the Holy Spirit to figure things out. The fact is he didn't. Other humans were needed to help guide us. First the Apostles, their successors, and a church.

How do you interpret this?

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Putting it within the context of the passages immediately preceding it, it is the "annoiting" that is the truth, that Christ gives eternal life to us all. That we should abide in Him as He abides in us as our Savior.
 
Teaching us ALL things? No, not really. The eunech needed Phillip's help. There are seminaries where people go for more knowledge of the Holy Word.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: NewDay on Fri Sep 07, 2012 - 08:15:18
For those who want a man/priest, pastor, etc, to teach you...that is fine, as long as you 'test the spirits', to see if they are of God, and you can only do that by the scriptures themselves..not by taking any man's word for it.

When we are saved, we have no need for no man to teach us, that is the promise of the new covenant, that individually, we shall all KNOW Him, because when He resides in you, you can hear HIS VOICE.

Teachers, in the biblical perspective were to be teaching the gospel to the lost.



And the two different people in whom "He" resides look at the same Scriptures and come up with two different interpretation of the same passage then who is right? Who decides?
 
Oh, you will say that we can go to the Scriptures to decide. Ok,  but then whose determination of the new passage we have now gone to, to help decide the passage we are trying to decide is correct? Round and round we go!
 
No, I disagree. We all have the need for a competant religious authority to help decide such things. That's the problem with your argument. Jesus would have just written a book and left us alone with the Holy Spirit to figure things out. The fact is he didn't. Other humans were needed to help guide us. First the Apostles, their successors, and a church.

How do you interpret this?

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Putting it within the context of the passages immediately preceding it, it is the "annoiting" that is the truth, that Christ gives eternal life to us all. That we should abide in Him as He abides in us as our Savior.
 
Teaching us ALL things? No, not really. The eunech needed Phillip's help. There are seminaries where people go for more knowledge of the Holy Word.

Just so you know. I agree the Eunuch  needed Phillip's help, for he had not yet received the Holy Spirit. That is the purpose of 'teachers' in the new covenant, to aid those who have not yet been saved, to teach the gospel to the lost.

Act 8:15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 

 Act 8:16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 

You are not saved until you receive the Holy Spirit.

The Eunuch, was on his way to being saved, and Phillip taught him the gospel, by showing him the verses in the bible that would preach the good news of Jesus Christ.

Act 8:30 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?" 


 Act 8:31 And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him. 


 Act 8:32 The place in the Scripture which he read was this: "He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; And as a lamb before its shearer is silent, So He opened not His mouth. 


 Act 8:33 In His humiliation His justice was taken away, And who will declare His generation? For His life is taken from the earth." [fn] 


 Act 8:34 So the eunuch answered Philip and said, "I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?" 


 Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Ladonia on Fri Sep 07, 2012 - 09:32:11
For those who want a man/priest, pastor, etc, to teach you...that is fine, as long as you 'test the spirits', to see if they are of God, and you can only do that by the scriptures themselves..not by taking any man's word for it.

When we are saved, we have no need for no man to teach us, that is the promise of the new covenant, that individually, we shall all KNOW Him, because when He resides in you, you can hear HIS VOICE.

Teachers, in the biblical perspective were to be teaching the gospel to the lost.



And the two different people in whom "He" resides look at the same Scriptures and come up with two different interpretation of the same passage then who is right? Who decides?
 
Oh, you will say that we can go to the Scriptures to decide. Ok,  but then whose determination of the new passage we have now gone to, to help decide the passage we are trying to decide is correct? Round and round we go!
 
No, I disagree. We all have the need for a competant religious authority to help decide such things. That's the problem with your argument. Jesus would have just written a book and left us alone with the Holy Spirit to figure things out. The fact is he didn't. Other humans were needed to help guide us. First the Apostles, their successors, and a church.

How do you interpret this?

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Putting it within the context of the passages immediately preceding it, it is the "annoiting" that is the truth, that Christ gives eternal life to us all. That we should abide in Him as He abides in us as our Savior.
 
Teaching us ALL things? No, not really. The eunech needed Phillip's help. There are seminaries where people go for more knowledge of the Holy Word.

Just so you know. I agree the Eunuch  needed Phillip's help, for he had not yet received the Holy Spirit. That is the purpose of 'teachers' in the new covenant, to aid those who have not yet been saved, to teach the gospel to the lost.

Act 8:15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 

 Act 8:16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 

You are not saved until you receive the Holy Spirit.

The Eunuch, was on his way to being saved, and Phillip taught him the gospel, by showing him the verses in the bible that would preach the good news of Jesus Christ.

Act 8:30 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?" 


 Act 8:31 And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him. 


 Act 8:32 The place in the Scripture which he read was this: "He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; And as a lamb before its shearer is silent, So He opened not His mouth. 


 Act 8:33 In His humiliation His justice was taken away, And who will declare His generation? For His life is taken from the earth." [fn] 


 Act 8:34 So the eunuch answered Philip and said, "I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?" 


 Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 

Ok, but  I believe that does not lesson the need for competant authority to continue helping him in his spiritual journey.
 
If it is as you say that all you need is to believe and immediately have the Holy Spirit, then why are there seminaries? Don't those who attend such institutions believe and therefore have the Holy Spirit within them?
 
Why would they spend the time and money to attend such places and put themselves under the tutellege of religious scholars? Your line of thinking does not seem to make sense to me.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Willie T on Fri Sep 07, 2012 - 09:33:22
Many of you like to fill pages with cluttered text - most just copy/paste - with no explanation of any sort of understanding.

I see that as simply self satisfying.  Sort of like speaking in tongues in front of the congregation with no interpretation.

So I will address only one thing where I feel another's study and sharing helped me change my mind on a Biblical principle.

The woman at the well asked Jesus a question.  He answered that a time was coming, and was then, that worship would be done in Spirit and truth.  (Go look it up if you have to have your translation's literal wording.)

For a long time I believed (because I didn't think for myself enough) that this meant we would have to be spiritual and truthful in our worship.
This is not what He answered.

The woman asked WHERE worship should be done.  And He answered WHERE.  The meaning of spirit here is "pneuma" (sp?)... breath, wind... air... breeze.  Meaning God is everywhere, not confined to a temple or a mountain.  And we are to worship Him everywhere we are... wherever we go.  This takes the monstrous importance we have placed on our places of worship (church buildings) and puts it into somewhat of a position of question.  Now, you can decide the answer to that "question" for yourself.  I really don't care too much.  But for me, the study and assistance of another man opened my eyes wide to how Jesus said we should be viewing worship.

And a whole long line of Preachers, Priests, and Rabbis had all told me just the opposite all my life.  They each said, basically:  "Yeah, but TRUE worship of God, the way He instructed it, is to be done HERE.   Not only in one of our authorized buildings, but also through our sanctified denomination.

Thank God for other brothers (and SISTERS) teaching the rest of us.  Speaking of that, what did Priscilla and Aquila do... and with whom?  This was not an unbeliever.  He just had things screwed up in his mind.... as so many of us right here do.  And except for about a half dozen people Satan still has a solid grip on here, don't we all think we are Believers?

(And just to make it clear........ I believe Evangelists are for outreach to the unbelievers, and Teachers are to help keep the body (the congregation, if you will) from getting off line, and beginning to develop all sorts of laws and rules to live by and for worship.  Just like the Israelites, we will go hog-wild with that strange fire if not restrained a little by reason and logic.... (teaching)
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: grace on Fri Sep 07, 2012 - 09:41:03
Many of you like to fill pages with cluttered text - most just copy/paste - with no explanation of any sort of understanding.

I see that as simply self satisfying.  Sort of like speaking in tongues in front of the congregation with no interpretation.

So I will address only one thing where I feel another's study and sharing helped me change my mind on a Biblical principle.

The woman at the well asked Jesus a question.  He answered that a time was coming, and was then, that worship would be done in Spirit and truth.  (Go look it up if you have to have your translation's literal wording.)

For a long time I believed (because I didn't think for myself enough) that this meant we would have to be spiritual and truthful in our worship.
This is not what He answered.

The woman asked WHERE worship should be done.  And He answered WHERE.  The meaning of spirit here is "pneuma" (sp?)... breath, wind... air... breeze.  Meaning God is everywhere, not confined to a temple or a mountain.  And we are to worship Him everywhere we are... wherever we go.  This takes the monstrous importance we have placed on our places of worship (church buildings) and puts it into somewhat of a position of question.  Now, you can decide the answer to that "question" for yourself.  I really don't care too much.  But for me, the study and assistance of another man opened my eyes wide to how Jesus said we should be viewing worship.

And a whole long line of Preachers, Priests, and Rabbis had all told me just the opposite all my life.  They each said, basically:  "Yeah, but TRUE worship of God, the way He instructed it, is to be done HERE.   Not only in one of our authorized buildings, but also through our sanctified denomination.

Thank God for other brothers (and SISTERS) teaching the rest of us.  Speaking of that, what did Priscilla and Aquila do... and with whom?  This was not an unbeliever.  He just had things screwed up in his mind.... as so many of us right here do.  And except for about a half dozen people Satan still has a solid grip on here, don't we all think we are Believers?
I agree with what you said! But didn't God also make it where we need each other!
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Willie T on Fri Sep 07, 2012 - 09:49:57
Many of you like to fill pages with cluttered text - most just copy/paste - with no explanation of any sort of understanding.

I see that as simply self satisfying.  Sort of like speaking in tongues in front of the congregation with no interpretation.

So I will address only one thing where I feel another's study and sharing helped me change my mind on a Biblical principle.

The woman at the well asked Jesus a question.  He answered that a time was coming, and was then, that worship would be done in Spirit and truth.  (Go look it up if you have to have your translation's literal wording.)

For a long time I believed (because I didn't think for myself enough) that this meant we would have to be spiritual and truthful in our worship.
This is not what He answered.

The woman asked WHERE worship should be done.  And He answered WHERE.  The meaning of spirit here is "pneuma" (sp?)... breath, wind... air... breeze.  Meaning God is everywhere, not confined to a temple or a mountain.  And we are to worship Him everywhere we are... wherever we go.  This takes the monstrous importance we have placed on our places of worship (church buildings) and puts it into somewhat of a position of question.  Now, you can decide the answer to that "question" for yourself.  I really don't care too much.  But for me, the study and assistance of another man opened my eyes wide to how Jesus said we should be viewing worship.

And a whole long line of Preachers, Priests, and Rabbis had all told me just the opposite all my life.  They each said, basically:  "Yeah, but TRUE worship of God, the way He instructed it, is to be done HERE.   Not only in one of our authorized buildings, but also through our sanctified denomination.

Thank God for other brothers (and SISTERS) teaching the rest of us.  Speaking of that, what did Priscilla and Aquila do... and with whom?  This was not an unbeliever.  He just had things screwed up in his mind.... as so many of us right here do.  And except for about a half dozen people Satan still has a solid grip on here, don't we all think we are Believers?
I agree with what you said! But didn't God also make it where we need each other!
Isn't that exactly what I said?
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: grace on Fri Sep 07, 2012 - 09:52:45
Many of you like to fill pages with cluttered text - most just copy/paste - with no explanation of any sort of understanding.

I see that as simply self satisfying.  Sort of like speaking in tongues in front of the congregation with no interpretation.

So I will address only one thing where I feel another's study and sharing helped me change my mind on a Biblical principle.

The woman at the well asked Jesus a question.  He answered that a time was coming, and was then, that worship would be done in Spirit and truth.  (Go look it up if you have to have your translation's literal wording.)

For a long time I believed (because I didn't think for myself enough) that this meant we would have to be spiritual and truthful in our worship.
This is not what He answered.

The woman asked WHERE worship should be done.  And He answered WHERE.  The meaning of spirit here is "pneuma" (sp?)... breath, wind... air... breeze.  Meaning God is everywhere, not confined to a temple or a mountain.  And we are to worship Him everywhere we are... wherever we go.  This takes the monstrous importance we have placed on our places of worship (church buildings) and puts it into somewhat of a position of question.  Now, you can decide the answer to that "question" for yourself.  I really don't care too much.  But for me, the study and assistance of another man opened my eyes wide to how Jesus said we should be viewing worship.

And a whole long line of Preachers, Priests, and Rabbis had all told me just the opposite all my life.  They each said, basically:  "Yeah, but TRUE worship of God, the way He instructed it, is to be done HERE.   Not only in one of our authorized buildings, but also through our sanctified denomination.

Thank God for other brothers (and SISTERS) teaching the rest of us.  Speaking of that, what did Priscilla and Aquila do... and with whom?  This was not an unbeliever.  He just had things screwed up in his mind.... as so many of us right here do.  And except for about a half dozen people Satan still has a solid grip on here, don't we all think we are Believers?
I agree with what you said! But didn't God also make it where we need each other!
Isn't that exactly what I said?
sorry..I must have read it wrong..
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Willie T on Fri Sep 07, 2012 - 09:54:40
Many of you like to fill pages with cluttered text - most just copy/paste - with no explanation of any sort of understanding.

I see that as simply self satisfying.  Sort of like speaking in tongues in front of the congregation with no interpretation.

So I will address only one thing where I feel another's study and sharing helped me change my mind on a Biblical principle.

The woman at the well asked Jesus a question.  He answered that a time was coming, and was then, that worship would be done in Spirit and truth.  (Go look it up if you have to have your translation's literal wording.)

For a long time I believed (because I didn't think for myself enough) that this meant we would have to be spiritual and truthful in our worship.
This is not what He answered.

The woman asked WHERE worship should be done.  And He answered WHERE.  The meaning of spirit here is "pneuma" (sp?)... breath, wind... air... breeze.  Meaning God is everywhere, not confined to a temple or a mountain.  And we are to worship Him everywhere we are... wherever we go.  This takes the monstrous importance we have placed on our places of worship (church buildings) and puts it into somewhat of a position of question.  Now, you can decide the answer to that "question" for yourself.  I really don't care too much.  But for me, the study and assistance of another man opened my eyes wide to how Jesus said we should be viewing worship.

And a whole long line of Preachers, Priests, and Rabbis had all told me just the opposite all my life.  They each said, basically:  "Yeah, but TRUE worship of God, the way He instructed it, is to be done HERE.   Not only in one of our authorized buildings, but also through our sanctified denomination.

Thank God for other brothers (and SISTERS) teaching the rest of us.  Speaking of that, what did Priscilla and Aquila do... and with whom?  This was not an unbeliever.  He just had things screwed up in his mind.... as so many of us right here do.  And except for about a half dozen people Satan still has a solid grip on here, don't we all think we are Believers?
I agree with what you said! But didn't God also make it where we need each other!
Isn't that exactly what I said?
sorry..I must have read it wrong..
This was from some talks with another brother, a friend, in his Living Room. 
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: NewDay on Fri Sep 07, 2012 - 13:09:11
For those who want a man/priest, pastor, etc, to teach you...that is fine, as long as you 'test the spirits', to see if they are of God, and you can only do that by the scriptures themselves..not by taking any man's word for it.

When we are saved, we have no need for no man to teach us, that is the promise of the new covenant, that individually, we shall all KNOW Him, because when He resides in you, you can hear HIS VOICE.

Teachers, in the biblical perspective were to be teaching the gospel to the lost.



And the two different people in whom "He" resides look at the same Scriptures and come up with two different interpretation of the same passage then who is right? Who decides?
 
Oh, you will say that we can go to the Scriptures to decide. Ok,  but then whose determination of the new passage we have now gone to, to help decide the passage we are trying to decide is correct? Round and round we go!
 
No, I disagree. We all have the need for a competant religious authority to help decide such things. That's the problem with your argument. Jesus would have just written a book and left us alone with the Holy Spirit to figure things out. The fact is he didn't. Other humans were needed to help guide us. First the Apostles, their successors, and a church.

How do you interpret this?

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Putting it within the context of the passages immediately preceding it, it is the "annoiting" that is the truth, that Christ gives eternal life to us all. That we should abide in Him as He abides in us as our Savior.
 
Teaching us ALL things? No, not really. The eunech needed Phillip's help. There are seminaries where people go for more knowledge of the Holy Word.

Just so you know. I agree the Eunuch  needed Phillip's help, for he had not yet received the Holy Spirit. That is the purpose of 'teachers' in the new covenant, to aid those who have not yet been saved, to teach the gospel to the lost.

Act 8:15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 

 Act 8:16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 

You are not saved until you receive the Holy Spirit.

The Eunuch, was on his way to being saved, and Phillip taught him the gospel, by showing him the verses in the bible that would preach the good news of Jesus Christ.

Act 8:30 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?" 


 Act 8:31 And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him. 


 Act 8:32 The place in the Scripture which he read was this: "He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; And as a lamb before its shearer is silent, So He opened not His mouth. 


 Act 8:33 In His humiliation His justice was taken away, And who will declare His generation? For His life is taken from the earth." [fn] 


 Act 8:34 So the eunuch answered Philip and said, "I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?" 


 Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 

Ok, but  I believe that does not lesson the need for competant authority to continue helping him in his spiritual journey.
 
If it is as you say that all you need is to believe and immediately have the Holy Spirit, then why are there seminaries? Don't those who attend such institutions believe and therefore have the Holy Spirit within them?
 
Why would they spend the time and money to attend such places and put themselves under the tutellege of religious scholars? Your line of thinking does not seem to make sense to me.

I am NOT saying they do not have the Holy Spirit.

I am saying that IF they did not quench it in this area, there would be NO divisions.

Don't you realise it is men who divide/ Not God Himself?
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Ladonia on Fri Sep 07, 2012 - 14:31:54
For those who want a man/priest, pastor, etc, to teach you...that is fine, as long as you 'test the spirits', to see if they are of God, and you can only do that by the scriptures themselves..not by taking any man's word for it.

When we are saved, we have no need for no man to teach us, that is the promise of the new covenant, that individually, we shall all KNOW Him, because when He resides in you, you can hear HIS VOICE.

Teachers, in the biblical perspective were to be teaching the gospel to the lost.



And the two different people in whom "He" resides look at the same Scriptures and come up with two different interpretation of the same passage then who is right? Who decides?
 
Oh, you will say that we can go to the Scriptures to decide. Ok,  but then whose determination of the new passage we have now gone to, to help decide the passage we are trying to decide is correct? Round and round we go!
 
No, I disagree. We all have the need for a competant religious authority to help decide such things. That's the problem with your argument. Jesus would have just written a book and left us alone with the Holy Spirit to figure things out. The fact is he didn't. Other humans were needed to help guide us. First the Apostles, their successors, and a church.

How do you interpret this?

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Putting it within the context of the passages immediately preceding it, it is the "annoiting" that is the truth, that Christ gives eternal life to us all. That we should abide in Him as He abides in us as our Savior.
 
Teaching us ALL things? No, not really. The eunech needed Phillip's help. There are seminaries where people go for more knowledge of the Holy Word.

Just so you know. I agree the Eunuch  needed Phillip's help, for he had not yet received the Holy Spirit. That is the purpose of 'teachers' in the new covenant, to aid those who have not yet been saved, to teach the gospel to the lost.

Act 8:15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 

 Act 8:16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 

You are not saved until you receive the Holy Spirit.

The Eunuch, was on his way to being saved, and Phillip taught him the gospel, by showing him the verses in the bible that would preach the good news of Jesus Christ.

Act 8:30 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?" 


 Act 8:31 And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him. 


 Act 8:32 The place in the Scripture which he read was this: "He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; And as a lamb before its shearer is silent, So He opened not His mouth. 


 Act 8:33 In His humiliation His justice was taken away, And who will declare His generation? For His life is taken from the earth." [fn] 


 Act 8:34 So the eunuch answered Philip and said, "I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?" 


 Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 

Ok, but  I believe that does not lesson the need for competant authority to continue helping him in his spiritual journey.
 
If it is as you say that all you need is to believe and immediately have the Holy Spirit, then why are there seminaries? Don't those who attend such institutions believe and therefore have the Holy Spirit within them?
 
Why would they spend the time and money to attend such places and put themselves under the tutellege of religious scholars? Your line of thinking does not seem to make sense to me.

I am NOT saying they do not have the Holy Spirit.

I am saying that IF they did not quench it in this area, there would be NO divisions.

Don't you realise it is men who divide/ Not God Himself?

Yes, I realise that - you are correct. At one time there was but one universal (catholic) church, then it was torn asunder by men who thought they knew better than the one which was established.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: NewDay on Mon Sep 10, 2012 - 08:22:27
For those who want a man/priest, pastor, etc, to teach you...that is fine, as long as you 'test the spirits', to see if they are of God, and you can only do that by the scriptures themselves..not by taking any man's word for it.

When we are saved, we have no need for no man to teach us, that is the promise of the new covenant, that individually, we shall all KNOW Him, because when He resides in you, you can hear HIS VOICE.

Teachers, in the biblical perspective were to be teaching the gospel to the lost.



And the two different people in whom "He" resides look at the same Scriptures and come up with two different interpretation of the same passage then who is right? Who decides?
 
Oh, you will say that we can go to the Scriptures to decide. Ok,  but then whose determination of the new passage we have now gone to, to help decide the passage we are trying to decide is correct? Round and round we go!
 
No, I disagree. We all have the need for a competant religious authority to help decide such things. That's the problem with your argument. Jesus would have just written a book and left us alone with the Holy Spirit to figure things out. The fact is he didn't. Other humans were needed to help guide us. First the Apostles, their successors, and a church.

How do you interpret this?

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Putting it within the context of the passages immediately preceding it, it is the "annoiting" that is the truth, that Christ gives eternal life to us all. That we should abide in Him as He abides in us as our Savior.
 
Teaching us ALL things? No, not really. The eunech needed Phillip's help. There are seminaries where people go for more knowledge of the Holy Word.

Just so you know. I agree the Eunuch  needed Phillip's help, for he had not yet received the Holy Spirit. That is the purpose of 'teachers' in the new covenant, to aid those who have not yet been saved, to teach the gospel to the lost.

Act 8:15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 

 Act 8:16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 

You are not saved until you receive the Holy Spirit.

The Eunuch, was on his way to being saved, and Phillip taught him the gospel, by showing him the verses in the bible that would preach the good news of Jesus Christ.

Act 8:30 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?" 


 Act 8:31 And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him. 


 Act 8:32 The place in the Scripture which he read was this: "He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; And as a lamb before its shearer is silent, So He opened not His mouth. 


 Act 8:33 In His humiliation His justice was taken away, And who will declare His generation? For His life is taken from the earth." [fn] 


 Act 8:34 So the eunuch answered Philip and said, "I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?" 


 Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 

Ok, but  I believe that does not lesson the need for competant authority to continue helping him in his spiritual journey.
 
If it is as you say that all you need is to believe and immediately have the Holy Spirit, then why are there seminaries? Don't those who attend such institutions believe and therefore have the Holy Spirit within them?
 
Why would they spend the time and money to attend such places and put themselves under the tutellege of religious scholars? Your line of thinking does not seem to make sense to me.

I am NOT saying they do not have the Holy Spirit.

I am saying that IF they did not quench it in this area, there would be NO divisions.

Don't you realise it is men who divide/ Not God Himself?

Yes, I realise that - you are correct. At one time there was but one universal (catholic) church, then it was torn asunder by men who thought they knew better than the one which was established.

You have it all wrong, if you think the Catholic Denomination is the 'church', from the beginning.

God's church is not a man made denomination.

It began way back with the first man of faith.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: DaveW on Sun Sep 16, 2012 - 08:00:26
I am saying that IF they did not quench it in this area, there would be NO divisions.

Don't you realise it is men who divide/ Not God Himself?
Yes, I realise that - you are correct. At one time there was but one universal (catholic) church, then it was torn asunder by men who thought they knew better than the one which was established.

It was started by the ECFs systematicly excluding the early Jewish believers.  By ad 300 they were declared heretics and not invited to the table at the 325 First Nicean conference.

That put division and sectarianism into the spiritual "dna" of the church and the various splits were inevitable. They cannot be fixed until that first error is corrected.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: bemark on Sun Sep 16, 2012 - 08:09:42
Within you
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: gbzone on Fri Oct 19, 2012 - 06:06:12
It's the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus, Himself, 2,000 years ago.  It's the one with all the marks...

[url]http://www.ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/churb2.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/churb2.htm[/url])   ::priest::

 
Caine had a mark  that all may recognise him and not slay him.
All those false religios of the world is of Caine.
Who by the sweat of his  brow and the work of his own hands he sought to establish his own rightousness before God.
His offerign God had no respect for./
Able on the other hand ofered the sacrafice of a lamb .Folowing the pattern God laid down in the garden .
His offering God had respect of.
It was not Able who was in decietfull diologue with Caine .
It was Caine who was in a subtle and deceitfull diologue with Able.
it was not Able that rose up and slew Caine.
But it was Caine who rose up and slew Able.
When Jesus was ministering in Jerusalem and beyond. Pilate and Herod never spoke to each other they were enemies.
But when it came to the judgign,condemnation and oppostion to  of Jesus they became freinds.
So it is with the Rcc.
She is even now joining with all those so called world faiths beign the perfection of idolitory.
and given the liberty all  those who are in diologue with her in some deceitfull ecumenical fashion will find out what sort she is and for many it will be too late.
My bible tells me that even the religion of Babylon and Jezzebel will remain into the last days.
and it will be in the church as well (rev 2)
and in these forums as well as many others  the drip drip drip of her deciets  is beign planted
and she openly upholds all those doctrins  that were found and proved to be wrong at the reformation and the bible today still so proves and she dares to judge and condemn the errors of what she calles the 'protestant' religion.
While she herself holds to such gross errors .
But as you said by thier fruist ye shall know them.
The church which is the true church Jesus said I will build .
If the tabernacle in the wildernes mad e with hands was of such exactitude .
Do you realy think that the  church not made with hands will be any less?
Do you realy think that the tabernacle made with hands that had no graven images in it for the people to worship and venerate .and with Gods express command thou shalt NOT make any graven image .....
Will be any less certain in the church not made with hands?
Is it not written that the true church has as its head Jesus who has been given to the church by God to be head over all things to the church?
How is it then that this you call the church has  a head that is not Christ?
How is it then that Jesus said as to the blood and the wine do this in remeberence of me .
for jesus died ONCE and for all.
That the blasphamy that is the mass seeks to crucyfy the Lord every time it is said?
How is it that by the scriptures there are only two lawfull and acceptable preisthoods?
If of the flesh .The you ahve to be of the tribe of levi. and to attempt the offices of that preisthood and not to be so even a king of Isreal found to hsi great cost it cannot be so.
Then why then do we have such preists as what you call THE church  not of Levi?
The only other acceptable preisthood to God .Is the order of Melchesidech.
The letter to the Hebrew s covers this ground better than I ever can.
But if jesus is the TRUE high preist of an everlastign covenant.Who ministers not in the temple made with hands  but in the true tabernacle made by God.
Then it is a spiritual preisthood.
that beign the case. ALL true BORN children of God are as the scriptures tell it "made kings and preists unto God"
How is it then that the rcc who you say is the true church  denies both the scripture the office of the true preisthood  and does so by all her rituals and traditions.
Truly it is written ye by your traditions make the Word of God of none effect.
By what mark then do you say what ytou say?
For I see substitutes for reality.
Candles  for the Holy ghost.
Incense for prayers.
Vestments  for the robes of rightoiusness.
Rituals for reality.
Idols for God.
In very truth  the flesh is fed.
By the eye. the ear, the nose . and the mind distracted .
Image for substance .
Tradition  for the Word of God.
Corruption  for Holyness.
Compromise for unity.
Jesus said I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
I dont quite understand what it all means. But the true church will be givign hell a hard time.Not the other way around.
Moreover .
You do not build an eternal church upon the weakness and frailty of a man of Adam.
But5 you do build an eternal church  upon the eternal Word of God .
If any man heareth my words and doeth them I will liken unto him as a wise man who built their house upon a rock,
DEutronomy clearly and irefutably says who the rock is .It is God.
If you want to build an eternal church you build it on the eternal GOD.
The marks of the rcc prove exactly what it is.
In Christ
gerald
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Alan on Fri Oct 19, 2012 - 07:07:43
While this thread has brought about much controversy I believe there lies an answer within.

God's true Church is the Church where God is moving, where his glory can be felt, and where his unmistakable presence confirms you are in HIS house.

Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: chosenone on Fri Oct 19, 2012 - 07:41:21
While this thread has brought about much controversy I believe there lies an answer within.

God's true Church is the Church where God is moving, where his glory can be felt, and where his unmistakable presence confirms you are in HIS house.



 ::amen!:: ::amen!:: ::amen!:: ::amen!:: ::amen!:: ::amen!:: ::amen!:: ::amen!:: ::amen!:: ::amen!:: ::amen!:: ::amen!:: ::amen!:: ::amen!:: ::amen!:: ::amen!::
 
You can usually tell quite quickly if that is happening as well.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Lively Stone on Fri Oct 19, 2012 - 07:49:32
While this thread has brought about much controversy I believe there lies an answer within.

God's true Church is the Church where God is moving, where his glory can be felt, and where his unmistakable presence confirms you are in HIS house.

Yes, but don't forget that we ARE His house. See my signature!  ::smile::



***edit: my former signature, which was:

1 Peter 2:5
And you are living stones that God is building into his spiritual temple. What’s more, you are his holy priests. Through the mediation of Jesus Christ, you offer spiritual sacrifices that please God.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Adamski on Wed Jan 16, 2013 - 16:59:04
I asked myself this question 2 years ago while attending a "non- denominational" church


The bible and historical facts are very clear Jesus Christ started one visible church that is not a denomination

He founded the Roman Catholic Church.

As the nicene creed says which we all agree on this forum

"one holy catholic and apostolic church"

Go to catholic.com to learn more
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Snargles on Wed Jan 16, 2013 - 21:02:44
As the nicene creed says which we all agree on this forum

There is an old Restoration Movement saying, "No creed but the Bible." I have never heard the Nicene Creed recited in church and most of the people I go to church with have never heard of it.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Trumpeter on Thu Jan 17, 2013 - 07:07:12
The Lord Jesus says that His church has no walls,
And no other name, except the name The Father has given Him...
All its members are of one mind, one spirit and one love,
Worked in obedience, in His name.
The body of Christ is where you dwell,
Along with those who are His, given Him from The Father...
Who are now being prepared, as His bride, in gowns of white.
Woe to those churches of men, who say they are His remnant and true children... Woe, He says. Again, you have placed yourself in the seat of The Father, and have fallen under judgment of yourselves, because none live by that which they claim they know and teach to others.
Only those, who The Father draws to Him, have become His body and church...
The Truth is within them and shown by their works.
Yes, even these stumble...
But He is He, who searches the hearts and minds of His beloved,
And know who is true in steadfast love and faith for Him.
This is the true church you search for...
For it is not found outwardly in the world, but inwardly in the temple of God.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Ladonia on Wed Feb 20, 2013 - 05:06:23
As the nicene creed says which we all agree on this forum

There is an old Restoration Movement saying, "No creed but the Bible." I have never heard the Nicene Creed recited in church and most of the people I go to church with have never heard of it.

There is so much to be missed for those that reject orthodoxy.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Alan on Wed Feb 20, 2013 - 06:08:37

There is so much to be missed for those that reject orthodoxy.

Interesting.  ::pondering:: Many others believe (myself included) that there is so much more to be missed by being bound to the limitations of religion and their inherit false misrepresentations.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Truthlady5 on Fri Mar 01, 2013 - 11:59:27
Where is God’s True Church to Day?

You will not find the true church as a building or a group of people.

You will find it in the heart of each believer; Jesus is our husband we are His bride (the church)...it is a relationship between the two.  Jesus and us (believers).

Jesus did not come to save a church; He came to save you and me...

If you claim your church is the one true church...then, others can be sure; that it is not.

   I agree with this !!! ::clappingoverhead:: ::clappingoverhead::
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: SpiritualSon on Mon Mar 25, 2013 - 18:07:25
You'll find it at my house.

In the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg, you will find the truth.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: HRoberson on Fri Apr 05, 2013 - 14:20:39
You'll find it at my house.

In the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg, you will find the truth.
Swedenborg isn't overly impressive to me. But the real church can in fact be found at my house.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: neophyte on Sun Apr 07, 2013 - 08:47:31
Truthlady5, you wrote:"Jesus did not come to save a church; He came to save you and me..."

Maybe you should read your bible again, because you will see where Jesus did indeed leave us with a Church,not a completed Holy Bible. In Matt.16:18 Jesus said I will build "my church" ,not a bible. Albeit later His bishops of His Apostolic [ Universal/Catholic ] Church did compile the correct canonical Books of the Holy Bible.
Jesus left us His Apostolic [ Catholic ] Teaching  Church [ Matt.28:18-20 and Luke 10:16, John 20:21]
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: chosenone on Sun Apr 07, 2013 - 11:44:14
Truthlady5, you wrote:"Jesus did not come to save a church; He came to save you and me..."

Maybe you should read your bible again, because you will see where Jesus did indeed leave us with a Church,not a completed Holy Bible. In Matt.16:18 Jesus said I will build "my church" ,not a bible. Albeit later His bishops of His Apostolic [ Universal/Catholic ] Church did compile the correct canonical Books of the Holy Bible.
Jesus left us His Apostolic [ Catholic ] Teaching  Church [ Matt.28:18-20 and Luke 10:16, John 20:21]



 Jesus came to save all who come to Him. We are ALL part of the body of Christ if we are His children. What denom we belong to doesnt even matter. I have been to churches of 4 or 5 different denominations, and God was there in all of them!!!!
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: neophyte on Sun Apr 07, 2013 - 14:22:53
chosenone, maybe even Heavens Gate or how about Jim Jones Christian church or David Karesh out in Waco, Texas, all Bible believing Christians.
The Bible doesn't contain the whole of Jesus' teaching, or Christianity, as many of you non-Catholics believe [ Mk 4:33; 6:34; Lk. 24:15-16; Jn. 16:12; 20:30; 21:25; Acts 1:2-3 ]

One of your ilks foundational principles is sola Scriptura, which is neither biblical, historical[ nonexistent until the 16th century ] nor logical[ it's self-defeating idea.

Sola Scriptura is an abuse of the Holy Bible, since it is a use of the Bible contrary to its explicit and implicit testimony about itself and Tradition [ God's Tradition, not mans ] An objective reading of the Bible leads one to Tradition and the Catholic Church, rather than the opposite. The Bible is, in fact , undeniably a Christian Tradition itself.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: chosenone on Sun Apr 07, 2013 - 14:49:18
chosenone, maybe even Heavens Gate or how about Jim Jones Christian church or David Karesh out in Waco, Texas, all Bible believing Christians.
The Bible doesn't contain the whole of Jesus' teaching, or Christianity, as many of you non-Catholics believe [ Mk 4:33; 6:34; Lk. 24:15-16; Jn. 16:12; 20:30; 21:25; Acts 1:2-3 ]

One of your ilks foundational principles is sola Scriptura, which is neither biblical, historical[ nonexistent until the 16th century ] nor logical[ it's self-defeating idea.

Sola Scriptura is an abuse of the Holy Bible, since it is a use of the Bible contrary to its explicit and implicit testimony about itself and Tradition [ God's Tradition, not mans ] An objective reading of the Bible leads one to Tradition and the Catholic Church, rather than the opposite. The Bible is, in fact , undeniably a Christian Tradition itself.


 These are your opinions but not mine. The longer that I have been a believer the more I recognise the many errors in the RC church. If you are happy there that fine, but its not a place where I would go. The church is all of us as His children. I seek a body of believers who follow God and the Bible the most closely.

Member of cults, such as you mentioned, are not Christians.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Truthlady5 on Sun Apr 07, 2013 - 17:05:21
Truthlady5, you wrote:"Jesus did not come to save a church; He came to save you and me..."

Maybe you should read your bible again, because you will see where Jesus did indeed leave us with a Church,not a completed Holy Bible.

 


  I do study the Scripture. We are to gather together with other believers, because the Bible teaches, Fail not to assemble ourself together.  But we are to have a personal relationship with Jesus. This is  not referring to what Church building we are attending.  ::disco::
















Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Lively Stone on Sun Apr 07, 2013 - 17:13:16
You'll find it at my house.

In the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg, you will find the truth.

Actually, you won't.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: neophyte on Mon Apr 08, 2013 - 07:27:45
Just because you read Holy Scripture does not mean that you interpret Holy Scripture as it was intended to be understood.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: HRoberson on Mon Apr 08, 2013 - 11:36:25
Just because you read Holy Scripture does not mean that you interpret Holy Scripture as it was intended to be understood.
This is quite obvious on these boards.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Truthlady5 on Mon Apr 08, 2013 - 20:03:01
After reading God's Word, the "Holy Spirit" helps us to understand the Scripture. If a person is not lead by the "Holy Spirit" then Yes, he may not understand correctly. But I am  filled and lead by the "Holy Spirit" .

It is Wise not to talk about one of God's children. It is better that a millstone be hung around one's neck.  God watches over those who are his.   

It is our responsibility to search out Truth. If we are sincere, God will lead Us to Truth.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: HRoberson on Mon Apr 08, 2013 - 20:13:05
Of course.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: grams on Wed Apr 17, 2013 - 06:20:36
In this day and age, you will find the true church were they
"RightlyDividing the Word of Truth"  ll Tim. 2:15

Gods word is all true.
But there is a time past , but now , and ages to come.

You need to know who is talking and to whom!
 
Eph.  8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
 
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: drewhemm on Fri Apr 19, 2013 - 15:50:11
Considering the fact that the overwhelming majority of 'Christian' denominations actively teach their members to disregard the written word of God via man-made traditions, relativistic excuses or blatant misinterpretations of Scripture, all with varying motives, finding a true church shouldn't actually be that difficult...

The problem is that most people accept such behaviour as normal and follow other people instead of God. If we were all prepared to call such behaviour out as the evil it is, there may still be tens of thousands of denominations, but the majority of them would see their attendance plummet to single digits.

Instead of listening to too much ::preachit::, we should be ::reading:: (says someone who frequently ::preachit::)
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Seriousseeker on Tue Apr 30, 2013 - 21:05:56
Everyone here seems to either be defending their sect or claiming no one can know.  God intends that we know His testimony.  I believe the post I have set on the Protestant section of CF site  about CHURCH FAILURE gets to the truth of this issue, and I will just leave it to the serious seekers to visit it.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Prentis on Mon May 20, 2013 - 19:04:47
As it was in the days of Jesus, the people of God is divided.

But as it was in the days of Jesus, God has a remnant. The church is spread all over the world. Our concern is to be of it. God is the one who grafts us in... If we seek, we will find.

God doesn't make the real church obvious because it would be flooded by visitors, tourists. So he makes it obscure.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: MeMyself on Mon May 20, 2013 - 19:06:25
God doesn't make the real church obvious because it would be flooded by visitors, tourists. So he makes it obscure.

OH! BROTHER!!!
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Prentis on Mon May 20, 2013 - 19:07:18
Considering the fact that the overwhelming majority of 'Christian' denominations actively teach their members to disregard the written word of God via man-made traditions, relativistic excuses or blatant misinterpretations of Scripture, all with varying motives, finding a true church shouldn't actually be that difficult...

The problem is that most people accept such behaviour as normal and follow other people instead of God. If we were all prepared to call such behaviour out as the evil it is, there may still be tens of thousands of denominations, but the majority of them would see their attendance plummet to single digits.

Instead of listening to too much ::preachit::, we should be ::reading:: (says someone who frequently ::preachit::)

Indeed!  ::smile:: That kind of test reveals who is really after the truth... And usually leaves us with very few people. 
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Prentis on Mon May 20, 2013 - 19:13:44
To us who read the Bible, we hear of Jesus' story and it is obvious to us that HE is the son of God and that all those who followed him are God's people. But that's an inside view. Has it ever occurred to us that had we been just an outsider, like just about everyone was, we would of looked at Jesus and his disciples and thought of them as 'just another group'? That's actually what happened. The Sadducees were there, the Pharisees were there, and everyone saw it as another sect.

There is a time for the Pentecost, for the Spirit to work mightily and many be converted. Just as there was a time for the Israelites to come out of the desert. But then there is a time of testing, the wilderness.

God hides the truth from men, but reveals it to babes. God hides a matter, but it is the honor of kings to find it.

If God made the truth obvious and easy, all would take it, but for their own gain. But he makes the entrance difficult, so that only those who seek it as children and out of a pure heart receive it.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: MeMyself on Mon May 20, 2013 - 19:15:47
If God made the truth obvious and easy, all would take it, but for their own gain. But he makes the entrance difficult, so that only those who seek it receive it.

The entrance is Christ Jesus and it is easy...but some find it difficult to deny that THEY are god, that THEY can't do it on their own, that THEY aren't in control and must surrender to Him as Lord.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Lively Stone on Mon May 20, 2013 - 19:55:27

God doesn't make the real church obvious because it would be flooded by visitors, tourists. So he makes it obscure.

Nonsense.

We, the Church, are the light of the world, that beacon of Hope to those lost and floundering, and we are the salt of the earth, offering the truth and healing to the confused and dying.

Hard to conceal that!
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Lively Stone on Mon May 20, 2013 - 19:57:17
God doesn't make the real church obvious because it would be flooded by visitors, tourists. So he makes it obscure.


OH! BROTHER!!!


Yeah. What bible is that from?

(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Huh%20What/bugeyedlemur.jpg) (http://s230.photobucket.com/user/Floatingaxe/media/Huh%20What/bugeyedlemur.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Lively Stone on Mon May 20, 2013 - 20:00:42
Matthew 5:14
“You are the light of the world—like a city on a hilltop that cannot be hidden.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Lively Stone on Mon May 20, 2013 - 20:02:05
If God made the truth obvious and easy, all would take it, but for their own gain. But he makes the entrance difficult, so that only those who seek it receive it.

The entrance is Christ Jesus and it is easy...but some find it difficult to deny that THEY are god, that THEY can't do it on their own, that THEY aren't in control and must surrender to Him as Lord.

Exactly!  ::tippinghat::
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Lively Stone on Mon May 20, 2013 - 20:06:30

If God made the truth obvious and easy, all would take it, but for their own gain. But he makes the entrance difficult, so that only those who seek it as children and out of a pure heart receive it.

The way of salvation is simple. What makes it hard is the mind of man that refuses to get off his own throne.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Prentis on Mon May 20, 2013 - 20:09:39
If God made the truth obvious and easy, all would take it, but for their own gain. But he makes the entrance difficult, so that only those who seek it receive it.

The entrance is Christ Jesus and it is easy...but some find it difficult to deny that THEY are god, that THEY can't do it on their own, that THEY aren't in control and must surrender to Him as Lord.

Luk 13:24  Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

The way is narrow. It requires as you say surrender. But the surrender God desires is not just acknowledgment of our lack. It might begin this way. But then we must move on. We must then not only acknowledge that our own life is not the will of God, but submit this very life to the cross and watch it be crucified. Man can only do this when he has faith in God's promise that he will give him a better life, one that is pleasing to God. Then we can walk in the same life as he and be as he is.

Heb 6:1  Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2  Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3  And this will we do, if God permit.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: MeMyself on Mon May 20, 2013 - 20:13:21
If God made the truth obvious and easy, all would take it, but for their own gain. But he makes the entrance difficult, so that only those who seek it receive it.

The entrance is Christ Jesus and it is easy...but some find it difficult to deny that THEY are god, that THEY can't do it on their own, that THEY aren't in control and must surrender to Him as Lord.

Luk 13:24  Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

The way is narrow. It requires as you say surrender. But the surrender God desires is not just acknowledgment of our lack. It might begin this way. But then we must move on. We must then not only acknowledge that our own life is not the will of God, but submit this very life to the cross and watch it be crucified. Man can only do this when he has faith in God's promise that he will give him a better life, one that is pleasing to God. Then we can walk in the same life as he and be as he is.

Heb 6:1  Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2  Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3  And this will we do, if God permit.

Christ is the gate John 10:9

He is the narrow way (the only way)

It requires simply confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead, to be saved.
It is then that God marks us with the seal of His ownership and begins His good work in us that He will be faithful to complete.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: OldDad on Mon May 20, 2013 - 21:16:47

Heb 6:1  Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2  Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3  And this will we do, if God permit.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

The phrase in bold is the Greek verb phrase τετελείωκεν - it is a Perfect Active Indicative verb form. It characterizes an action that was completed in the past but also has continuing results in the present (or, stated differently, it characterizes a state of completion that endures presently).

Jesus HAS PERFECTED us - it's over, done.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: chosenone on Mon May 20, 2013 - 22:21:40
As it was in the days of Jesus, the people of God is divided.

But as it was in the days of Jesus, God has a remnant. The church is spread all over the world. Our concern is to be of it. God is the one who grafts us in... If we seek, we will find.

God doesn't make the real church obvious because it would be flooded by visitors, tourists. So he makes it obscure.


 Hmm I think that God WANTS people to visit His church actually.  ::headscratch::
Of course we are ALL His church whichever one we go to. We are ALL parts of His body on earth, and we have a worldwide family in loads of different places.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: chosenone on Mon May 20, 2013 - 22:23:28
If God made the truth obvious and easy, all would take it, but for their own gain. But he makes the entrance difficult, so that only those who seek it receive it.

The entrance is Christ Jesus and it is easy...but some find it difficult to deny that THEY are god, that THEY can't do it on their own, that THEY aren't in control and must surrender to Him as Lord.

Luk 13:24  Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

The way is narrow. It requires as you say surrender. But the surrender God desires is not just acknowledgment of our lack. It might begin this way. But then we must move on. We must then not only acknowledge that our own life is not the will of God, but submit this very life to the cross and watch it be crucified. Man can only do this when he has faith in God's promise that he will give him a better life, one that is pleasing to God. Then we can walk in the same life as he and be as he is.

Heb 6:1  Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2  Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3  And this will we do, if God permit.

Christ is the gate John 10:9

He is the narrow way (the only way)

It requires simply confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead, to be saved.
It is then that God marks us with the seal of His ownership and begins His good work in us that He will be faithful to complete.
 

Yep. The narrow way is Christ Himself. He alone is the gate for the sheep. Its not hard is it.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Man_Of_Honor on Tue May 21, 2013 - 00:07:01
Considering the fact that the overwhelming majority of 'Christian' denominations actively teach their members to disregard the written word of God via man-made traditions, relativistic excuses or blatant misinterpretations of Scripture, all with varying motives, finding a true church shouldn't actually be that difficult...

The problem is that most people accept such behaviour as normal and follow other people instead of God. If we were all prepared to call such behaviour out as the evil it is, there may still be tens of thousands of denominations, but the majority of them would see their attendance plummet to single digits.

Instead of listening to too much ::preachit::, we should be ::reading:: (says someone who frequently ::preachit::)

Amen!
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Seriousseeker on Fri May 24, 2013 - 13:21:15
It is one thing to be saved ---"born again", in the universal Church, a  true "child of God", etc;  and then to be part of a company expressing and embracing the unity God intended in His collective testimony.  That has been much of my concern.  I am very happy to embrace every real "child of God", though I cannot always walk with all.

As I have often said: there is a great difference between ignorance and rebellion of the truth.  Let us not be in the latter, for that would be spiritual loss.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: eph3nine on Mon Jun 17, 2013 - 16:43:33
The CHURCH is not a building made with hands. It is also NOT a denomination that meets in one of those buildings. The CHURCH is comprised of individual members of a unique and living entity which is called the church which is His BODY. The BODY church follows the gospel given to Paul by Christ RISEN and its instructions are found in Romans thru Philemon. It covers the biblical timeline which is called BUT NOW in Eph. 2. All the rest of the Bible is written for our instruction, but NOT for OUR obedience, as it is having to do with Gods COVENANT/marriage/Kingdom program with the nation of Israel.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: BlackSepulcher on Wed Jul 10, 2013 - 08:33:03
It's my understanding that the Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Coptic Orthodox denominations claim to be the true Holy Apostolic Church.

Which one is it, exactly?

....and why does it matter?

Which one of these churches stick out the most? In other words, which one has a prominence and mighty significance stretching throughout history, landing on the Earth with an impact worthy of such a title as *an infallible, authoritative, world changing church of Christ*?

I'm just trying to illustrate what is typically understated or, in some cases, ignored.

I have nothing but love for these churches, but the Roman Church by far fits the bill of what such a glorified church aforementioned by God should be, given the context in which it is told of being in scripture.


Anybody can dislike the Church all they want, but one thing they cannot do is deny that it's influenced and shaped this world exponentially over any other church. It brought Christianity even to those who would eventually dissent and form their own churches- it's the genesis of western Christianity, and was an iron fist for the East.








Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: HRoberson on Wed Jul 10, 2013 - 10:07:50
Depends on what part of the world you're in. If Moscow, the Orthodox church fits the bill nicely.

Whether size is a valid marker of validity is questionable and we would expect that characteristic to be promoted by supporters of the largest group. But visible nose counts is nowhere suggested as a sign of truth or God's favor.

I highly respect the good that the RC does, and her commitment to what she understands the faith to be. But she has had a relatively unfettered realm of operation as opposed to her sisters surrounded by oppressive political systems. I would think that they could argue that persecution is a more valid and promised mark of the church than is size or "might."

However, which is the "original, pedigreed" church is lost on me because it largely doesn't matter. How we do church is considerably less important than how we live. The church is either a tool or simply the results of people coming to God. She is not an end in herself and there is no defined shape for her.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: DaveW on Wed Jul 10, 2013 - 10:38:35
Quote
However, which is the "original, pedigreed" church is lost on me because it largely doesn't matter.


We have been in talks with Rome about that issue, and others.

I would like to quote a lengthy passage from the first vision document published by the "Toward Jerusalem Council Two" (www.tjcii.org (http://www.tjcii.org)) which was written by Roman Catholic theologian Fr Peter Hocken on re-establishing unity.  This was written toward the end of John Paul II's reign as pontif.

Quote
Why the Participation of All is Necessary
The TJCII vision as it developed from the first meeting of the
committee is directed toward all nations and all churches and
movements that confess the name of Jesus.

This breadth is essential to the vision
First, the Pauline vision of the church as the union of Jew and
Gentile in the one body is expressed in the letter to the Ephesians,
which perhaps more than any other letter in the New Testament
presents a universal and cosmic vision of “the many in the one”:
the “plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him [Christ],
things in heaven and things on earth” (Eph. 1: 10). It is the vision
of Christ, under whose feet the Father has “put all things” and who
has been made “the head over all things for the church” (Eph. 1:22).

The sectarian tendency to reject all other expressions of faith in
Jesus Christ as deviant or defective was itself a fruit of the
replacement/rejectionist thinking that had refused any Jewish
expression in the early centuries. The acceptance of the rightness
and the necessity of Jewish and Gentile expressions of faith within
the one body excludes all sectarianism.

Secondly, the TJCII initiative has to reach all Christian churches
and communities, because all Christian churches and communities
have in varying degrees accepted an ecclesiology that excludes the
Jews. The responsibility for the rejection of Jewish expressions of
faith in Jesus varies from one church to another, but all had
received an understanding of the church that required the complete
assimilation of Jewish converts.

Thirdly, every Christian tradition carries a distinctive witness of
the Holy Spirit that is needed for the fullness and the final
completion of the one body of Christ. This witness of the Holy
Spirit can only find its true place in the framework that
acknowledges the first place of the elder brother.

The Responsibility of the Historic Churches
As the outline of the history of TJCII makes clear, the impulse for
this initiative came from the Messianic Jews supported first by
evangelical Christians. Up to this point, the evangelicals and the
charismatics have made the biggest contribution. The intercessors
praying for TJCII have been mostly evangelical-charismatic
intercessors. It is from this background that the teaching and
practice of identificational repentance has come. It is for these
reasons that it was possible for those first involved to think of an
initiative that did not include the historic Churches.

However, the development of TJCII has made clear how essential
it is for the initiative that there is a full participation by the historic
Churches of East and West. To start with, these are the churches
originally responsible for the teaching that the Church has replaced
Israel, as a result of Israel’s denial of the Lord Jesus. These are the
churches responsible for the exclusion of the Jewish church. They
have therefore an indispensable role in expressing their repentance
and grief for these sins against the Jewish people and specifically
against the Jewish church. Ultimately, this role cannot be properly
played by anyone except the descendants in faith of those who
were more immediately responsible. No other bodies can replace
them in an official annulling of the original decisions.

Since TJCII began, Pope John Paul II has taken some remarkable
initiatives in regard to a Catholic expression of sorrow for the sins
of Catholics against the Jewish people through the ages. The
Jewish people, who have a sharp awareness of who oppressed
them through the centuries, immediately recognized the
importance of the papal actions and statements. When the Pope
visited Yad Vashem and prayed at the Western Wall in Jerusalem,
the Jewish people knew that something historic was happening.
The expression of a Christian repentance needs to be led by the
Catholic and by the Orthodox Churches.

However, there are also positive reasons why the contribution of
the historic Churches is essential. They embody different elements
of biblical tradition to the post-Reformation churches and
communities. “This schism between Jew and Gentile was the
original split in the Body of Messiah, and became the root for all
further divisions in the Church throughout the centuries” (TJCII
Original Declaration). For this reason, the Christian recognition of
the Jewish expression of the church will release a major impulse
for unity among all the Christian bodies that have become divided
through the ages.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: HRoberson on Wed Jul 10, 2013 - 12:18:12
Yes, and no.

I appreciate the angst caused by the early church's wanting to rid herself of Jewish influence, I am not at all sure how that plays out today. I don't know that this  (whatever it is) can only be resolved in a framework that acknowledges the elder brother, as though we have to shift our thinking from the Catholic Church as the original church to acknowledging that the first Christians were Jews.

I don't know of anyone who doesn't admit that Paul and Jesus were Jews, or that the church in Jerusalem played a key part in the early church. What I do know is that Gentiles need not worry about Jewish practices and such practices were not to be bound on them. Most Christians are Gentiles, and there is no Biblical expectation that Gentiles would become "Jewish" Christians. Besides, most Protestant groups spend their time explaining why they aren't Catholic rather than dissing Jewish believers.

If there are Jews who want to become Messianic Jews, then that may be a different story but I suspect not given the rumors about Paul's teachings and his writings.

Given all that, if Jewish folk want to have their own expression of church, fine by me, but I am not sure why getting the Pope to acknowledge his "sins" is such a big deal. Do you expect to gain some sort of legitimacy by gaining his imprimatur? Are you looking for some document that says Messianic Jews are "Christian," signed by the heads of the some odd 2000 denominations in the world? What would that accomplish?
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: HRoberson on Wed Jul 10, 2013 - 12:36:37
As a follow up to my previous post, if the Messianic Jewish community wants some sort of recognition, why not have your representative group join the National Council of Churches, or the World Council of Churches? They are both all about ecumenism and if you want an apology, they'd probably give you one.

I'm not sure how your life changes after that though.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: DaveW on Wed Jul 10, 2013 - 12:42:45
It is more of a spiritual warfare issue than just some personal sense of legitimacy.

The TJCII executive board has met with both JP2 and Benedict.  I am sure that they will meet with Frances before the year is out as well.   They have also met with at least one of the EO patriarchs (sorry do not remember which one) .
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: HRoberson on Wed Jul 10, 2013 - 14:27:00
Spiritual warfare in what sense?
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: DaveW on Thu Jul 11, 2013 - 05:27:33
Spiritual warfare in what sense?

Read post #163 and pay attention to the last paragraph of the article I quote.


Edited to correct post number
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: HRoberson on Thu Jul 11, 2013 - 08:19:26
163, I think.

The Catholic church already acknowledges that the invisible church is made up of Christians in other churches. She does not deny that Messianic Jews are Christians and are acceptable to God. What she denies is that others church structures represent the "true church" with all its charisms. She reserves that for herself.

She does a poor job of teaching the folks in the pews this.

There is already an acknowledged spiritual unity within the invisible church as far as the Catholic church is concerned.Yes, mthere are a couple caveats to that but church expression per se nor Jewish expression per se are obstacles.

Given that the World Coucil of Churches currently acknowledges an even greater unity among churches, I'm not sure that a Catholic agreement would be such a watershed moment.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: DaveW on Thu Jul 11, 2013 - 08:26:27
Quote
The Catholic church already acknowledges that the invisible church is made up of Christians in other churches. She does not deny that Messianic Jews are Christians and are acceptable to God.
NOW that is true.  Historically that is not the case.

And we are not just seeking to change the current stances; we are seeking to right centuries of wrong that will change the spiritual dynamic from one of schism to one of reconciliation.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: HRoberson on Thu Jul 11, 2013 - 08:32:47
Quote
The Catholic church already acknowledges that the invisible church is made up of Christians in other churches. She does not deny that Messianic Jews are Christians and are acceptable to God.
NOW that is true.  Historically that is not the case.

And we are not just seeking to change the current stances; we are seeking to right centuries of wrong that will change the spiritual dynamic from one of schism to one of reconciliation.
If it is true now, then you're wanting something that already exists.

If it is true now, what schism exists?

If what you want is an apology, why insist on it? Why not just acknowledge that they now like you and move on with your lives?

It would help if you could paint me a picture of what might change if you are successful, because I'm missing the import of this work.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: DaveW on Sun Jul 14, 2013 - 08:52:07
Quote
It would help if you could paint me a picture of what might change if you are successful, because I'm missing the import of this work.


Then go read the TJCII documents on their website www.tjcii.org (http://www.tjcii.org) 

That will lay it out in better detail than I can here.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: FireSword on Sun Jul 14, 2013 - 14:32:38
163, I think.

The Catholic church already acknowledges that the invisible church is made up of Christians in other churches. She does not deny that Messianic Jews are Christians and are acceptable to God. What she denies is that others church structures represent the "true church" with all its charisms. She reserves that for herself.

She does a poor job of teaching the folks in the pews this.

There is already an acknowledged spiritual unity within the invisible church as far as the Catholic church is concerned.Yes, mthere are a couple caveats to that but church expression per se nor Jewish expression per se are obstacles.

Given that the World Coucil of Churches currently acknowledges an even greater unity among churches, I'm not sure that a Catholic agreement would be such a watershed moment.

Amongst some discussion here with catholics, there is an agreement that the one true church doctrine was formulated during the early days, meaning that other faiths outside the apostolic church typically 'invented' their own religion or continued with those of ancient Egypt, Babylon, Greek, Roman etc. Pauls said 'he that preached another gospel other than the one we have preached let him be accursed'

But Protestantism offers a different challenge in that these are people of that same faith given to Abraham and the prophets, but the church continues to preach that she's the one true church and that Protestants are outcasts, even as excommunicated, because some say people must be part of catholic church to be saved. But scriptures are clear that Jesus will not cast away his people.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: HRoberson on Sun Jul 14, 2013 - 14:57:35
163, I think.

The Catholic church already acknowledges that the invisible church is made up of Christians in other churches. She does not deny that Messianic Jews are Christians and are acceptable to God. What she denies is that others church structures represent the "true church" with all its charisms. She reserves that for herself.

She does a poor job of teaching the folks in the pews this.

There is already an acknowledged spiritual unity within the invisible church as far as the Catholic church is concerned.Yes, mthere are a couple caveats to that but church expression per se nor Jewish expression per se are obstacles.

Given that the World Coucil of Churches currently acknowledges an even greater unity among churches, I'm not sure that a Catholic agreement would be such a watershed moment.

Amongst some discussion here with catholics, there is an agreement that the one true church doctrine was formulated during the early days, meaning that other faiths outside the apostolic church typically 'invented' their own religion or continued with those of ancient Egypt, Babylon, Greek, Roman etc. Pauls said 'he that preached another gospel other than the one we have preached let him be accursed'

But Protestantism offers a different challenge in that these are people of that same faith given to Abraham and the prophets, but the church continues to preach that she's the one true church and that Protestants are outcasts, even as excommunicated, because some say people must be part of catholic church to be saved. But scriptures are clear that Jesus will not cast away his people.

Not every Catholic knows what their church teaches.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: trifecta on Sun Aug 18, 2013 - 16:36:45
Firesword,  although I disagree with your point, it is clear and well-stated.




Amongst some discussion here with catholics, there is an agreement that the one true church doctrine was formulated during the early days, meaning that other faiths outside the apostolic church typically 'invented' their own religion or continued with those of ancient Egypt, Babylon, Greek, Roman etc. Pauls said 'he that preached another gospel other than the one we have preached let him be accursed'


True, this is why apostolic succession is so important.  Paul and slightly later Clement say the real faith is according to what we taught
and those whom we appoint teach.  The pattern continues from generation to generation until current times.   Today, four churches
trace their beginnings to the apostles --Rome, Orthodox, Coptics, Assyrian, (and maybe Armenian).  Most Anglican and some Lutheran
claim their stream is from the Roman branch.


Quote
But Protestantism offers a different challenge in that these are people of that same faith given to Abraham and the prophets, but the church continues to preach that she's the one true church and that Protestants are outcasts, even as excommunicated,

Protestantism makes an defensible claim.  They say, over time, the truth of the church was lost as time passed.  The truth is
ultimately more important than heritage.   This is true.  What the Protestant forgets is the ecumenical councils (starting in
Act 15) meet to iron out these truths.  There were 7 ecumenical councils from fourth to eighth centuries.  They have further
defined the unchanged faith (Jude 3) to deal with issues of the time.

  The RCC has strayed from the truth of the councils starting with the filioque.    Unfortunately, Protestants have no organized way of determining the truth.  Therefore, they fight--going back to Calvin and Luther.  There are no ecumenical councils in Protestantism--just my word versus yours.  Oddly, Protestants claim they have the mind of the early church.  To me, it is obvious that the Protestant fathers did not have a Semitic mindset.

The real true church must be not only be truthful but historical (going to the beginning). Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail
against his church, so the idea that the true church flounder for 1500 years makes Jesus is be a liar, which of course no Christian thinks he was. One of those four (or five) churches must be the one true church.  I believe it is the Orthodox church.

Quote
because some say people must be part of catholic church to be saved. But scriptures are clear that Jesus will not cast away his people.

Now, here is where it gets confusing.  Historically, to be a member of the church was to be a member of the saved community (although individuals in the church who don't really believe are in trouble as anyone else would be).  Today, I don't think so.  Nowhere is
scripture does it say that the church equals those in the book of life.  Therefore, I agree with the above statement, even though it would
be better to be in that one true church.

Vatican II confuses the issue further by claiming there are "invisible" members of the church.  While I am pleased the RCC thinks that
others outside the RCC may be saved (yes, that is a change in position), it muddies the issue of what is the church.  The church is
both spiritual and *physical*, as is it's head our Lord Jesus Christ. It is not just the sum of all the saved. There is no physicality in that nor
does the Bible say that.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: MannyO on Fri Jan 23, 2015 - 15:44:54
Among the multifarious denominations that are established in this world, God's church is not to be found in any single one of them.

No denomination (Catholic, Jehovah Witnesses, Pentecostal etc) is actually part of His church, His body. No matter how much they claim to be!

Those who are called by God will have been called out and beckoned away from religious establishments (i.e. the denominational churches). They will have been called out of the whore that is Babylon the great (all religious systems, including false christian churches).

They will have been called to follow God outside the city gate, away from the city of Babylon:

'And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood. Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore. For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come.' (Hebrews 13:12-15).

If you are part of any denominational church, that means you are currently residing in the babylonian city of nominal Christianity.

Get out of that city, before it is engulfed in fire and destroyed:

' 'Come out of her, my people,' so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues, for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes... She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.'
(Revelation 18: 4-8)

I have an alternative for you - truth itself - to be found on the following website: www.thepathoftruth.com/ (http://www.thepathoftruth.com/)
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Alan on Fri Jan 23, 2015 - 16:53:09

I have an alternative for you - truth itself - to be found on the following website: [url=http://www.thepathoftruth.com/]www.thepathoftruth.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.thepathoftruth.com/[/url])

Following a teaching, however pure you believe it to be is simply another denomination.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: chosenone on Fri Jan 23, 2015 - 17:14:12
Among the multifarious denominations that are established in this world, God's church is not to be found in any single one of them.

No denomination (Catholic, Jehovah Witnesses, Pentecostal etc) is actually part of His church, His body. No matter how much they claim to be!

Those who are called by God will have been called out and beckoned away from religious establishments (i.e. the denominational churches). They will have been called out of the whore that is Babylon the great (all religious systems, including false christian churches).

They will have been called to follow God outside the city gate, away from the city of Babylon:

'And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood. Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore. For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come.' (Hebrews 13:12-15).

If you are part of any denominational church, that means you are currently residing in the babylonian city of nominal Christianity.

Get out of that city, before it is engulfed in fire and destroyed:

' 'Come out of her, my people,' so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues, for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes... She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.'
(Revelation 18: 4-8)

I have an alternative for you - truth itself - to be found on the following website: [url=http://www.thepathoftruth.com/]www.thepathoftruth.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.thepathoftruth.com/[/url])


Ahh, another church that claims they are the only 'true' one. 
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: MannyO on Thu Jan 29, 2015 - 08:33:57
Alan, you say:

Quote
Following a teaching, however pure you believe it to be is simply another denomination.

What if the teaching is true, is it still 'another denomination'?

Chosenone:
Quote
Ahh, another church that claims they are the only 'true' one

I claim nothing. And I cannot prove what you think I claim, to you. It will simply have to be revealed to you - that whole truth is to be found on that website. Spiritual truth has to be revealed. It is not something that one can prove. So if proof is what you're looking for, I cannot give it. That's not the way it works. As I've said, it must be revealed. I cannot open your eyes to see truth. Only God can do that.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: MeMyself on Thu Jan 29, 2015 - 14:28:13
What if the teaching is true, is it still 'another denomination'?

What makes your teaching truth, while others are false?
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: chosenone on Thu Jan 29, 2015 - 15:24:58
Alan, you say:

Quote
Following a teaching, however pure you believe it to be is simply another denomination.

What if the teaching is true, is it still 'another denomination'?

Chosenone:
Quote
Ahh, another church that claims they are the only 'true' one

I claim nothing. And I cannot prove what you think I claim, to you. It will simply have to be revealed to you - that whole truth is to be found on that website. Spiritual truth has to be revealed. It is not something that one can prove. So if proof is what you're looking for, I cannot give it. That's not the way it works. As I've said, it must be revealed. I cannot open your eyes to see truth. Only God can do that.
 

I prefer to follow God and the spiritual truth that is in His word,  and not an organisation on a website that claims they are the only ones who have it right. Any group who does that needs to be avoided.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Alan on Thu Jan 29, 2015 - 18:49:09
Alan, you say:

Quote
Following a teaching, however pure you believe it to be is simply another denomination.
What if the teaching is true, is it still 'another denomination'?



It is to me (and probably others), since the truth is in the teachings I receive. Do you see the irony?
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: MannyO on Fri Jan 30, 2015 - 09:40:31
What if the teaching is true, is it still 'another denomination'?


What makes your teaching truth, while others are false?


It's not my teaching. Nor does it belong to, or orignate from, any man. It is from God, and it is He who will have to enable you to see that the teachings are truth. There is no other way to know that the teachings on that site are truth. That site again is: www.thepathoftruth.com/ (http://www.thepathoftruth.com/)
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: MannyO on Fri Jan 30, 2015 - 09:51:03
Alan, you say:

Quote
Following a teaching, however pure you believe it to be is simply another denomination.

What if the teaching is true, is it still 'another denomination'?

Chosenone:
Quote
Ahh, another church that claims they are the only 'true' one

I claim nothing. And I cannot prove what you think I claim, to you. It will simply have to be revealed to you - that whole truth is to be found on that website. Spiritual truth has to be revealed. It is not something that one can prove. So if proof is what you're looking for, I cannot give it. That's not the way it works. As I've said, it must be revealed. I cannot open your eyes to see truth. Only God can do that.
 

I prefer to follow God and the spiritual truth that is in His word,  and not an organisation on a website that claims they are the only ones who have it right. Any group who does that needs to be avoided.

You do not realise that the site that I've offered is infact true! You do not realise that the site is of, and from, God Himself.

Are you amongst those who refuse to come to God to have life? (John 5:40)

If you knew the truth that is being offered to you, you would embrace it. But as of now you do not know.


I prefer to follow God and the spiritual truth that is in His word,  and not an organisation

Well, do you go to church? If so, you are indeed following an organisation. You are following men, not God. Also, do you intend to follow the bible and not God Himself? (Remember, the bible is not God):

'You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.' (John 5:39-40).
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: MeMyself on Fri Jan 30, 2015 - 10:10:24
It's not my teaching. Nor does it belong to, or orignate from, any man. It is from God, and it is He who will have to enable you to see that the teachings are truth. There is no other way to know that the teachings on that site are truth. That site again is: [url=http://www.thepathoftruth.com/]www.thepathoftruth.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.thepathoftruth.com/[/url])


That is what every other teacher says. What makes you so confident YOU have truth and the rest are false?
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Alan on Fri Jan 30, 2015 - 10:11:10
'You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.' (John 5:39-40).


This is not a prophecy for all times sake, it was a statement aimed at those that chose to remain in the law that scripture provided, yet reject that Christ was the very one that was spoke of in the scriptures.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: MeMyself on Fri Jan 30, 2015 - 10:15:06
Alan, you say:

Quote
Following a teaching, however pure you believe it to be is simply another denomination.

What if the teaching is true, is it still 'another denomination'?

Chosenone:
Quote
Ahh, another church that claims they are the only 'true' one

I claim nothing. And I cannot prove what you think I claim, to you. It will simply have to be revealed to you - that whole truth is to be found on that website. Spiritual truth has to be revealed. It is not something that one can prove. So if proof is what you're looking for, I cannot give it. That's not the way it works. As I've said, it must be revealed. I cannot open your eyes to see truth. Only God can do that.
 

I prefer to follow God and the spiritual truth that is in His word,  and not an organisation on a website that claims they are the only ones who have it right. Any group who does that needs to be avoided.

You do not realise that the site that I've offered is infact true! You do not realise that the site is of, and from, God Himself.

Are you amongst those who refuse to come to God to have life? (John 5:40)

If you knew the truth that is being offered to you, you would embrace it. But as of now you do not know.


I prefer to follow God and the spiritual truth that is in His word,  and not an organisation

Well, do you go to church? If so, you are indeed following an organisation. You are following men, not God. Also, do you intend to follow the bible and not God Himself? (Remember, the bible is not God):

'You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.' (John 5:39-40).

You are following what the writers of your site are teaching...which is following man.

AND

The bible is our "safety net" to help us discern who is truly of God and who is not.  Anyone who tries and make others doubt the Word is suspect.  The Word is GOD'S Word and can be trusted far more than any teaching, no matter who claims it is GOD'S!  Following the Bible is following God.  If teaching does not line up with scripture... even though they claim they alone hold truth while condemning all others..it is a wolf and should be run from!
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: MannyO on Fri Jan 30, 2015 - 10:45:56
Alan, you say:

Quote
Following a teaching, however pure you believe it to be is simply another denomination.

What if the teaching is true, is it still 'another denomination'?




It is to me (and probably others), since the truth is in the teachings I receive. Do you see the irony?


I see what you mean. Truth cannot be relative and subjective. It is, and must be, objective.

Only one - not even two - of those who say they have the truth, actually possesses it. Many truth-claimers have bits of truth but only one has the whole truth.

Truth is whole and complete...indivisible; not split between denominations! The harlot church of this world is split between itself, and against itself. It's split into fragments of the same colour; but in numerous shades and hues. Each one purporting to have the truth.

Now, for one to be a denomination (i.e. a sect/part/component) one has to belong to the worldwide system of autonomous churches: https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=denomination. (https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=denomination.) This system is part of an even bigger system called Religion.

The site (www.thepathoftruth.com (http://www.thepathoftruth.com)) I showed is not at all a denomination. (What do you think defines a denomination? I have just provided an objective definition for you).

To be a denomination the Pathoftruth.com would have to be a 'branch' on the 'tree' that is the worldly system of churches. It would have to be a 'segment' of the 'circle' that is nominal Christianity. But it exists outside of that. The Pathoftruth.com is/part of the Church that is located outside the city gates; whilst the false church(es) are within the corrupt city of Babylon.

'So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood. Therefore let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproach he endured. For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come.' (Hebrews 13:12-13)

This Church I speak of has no physical building, no physical meeting place, no vestry or pulpit, no offering plates or donation boxes, no registration with the government, no practice of religious, formal ordinances and pagan customs. The differences between this Church and all the other churches (i.e. denominations) are much greater than the similiarities it may share with them, such as gathering for fellowship.

Here is the Church that it is:

"...you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect...' (Hebrews 12:22-23)
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: chosenone on Fri Jan 30, 2015 - 11:15:59
Alan, you say:

Quote
Following a teaching, however pure you believe it to be is simply another denomination.

What if the teaching is true, is it still 'another denomination'?

Chosenone:
Quote
Ahh, another church that claims they are the only 'true' one

I claim nothing. And I cannot prove what you think I claim, to you. It will simply have to be revealed to you - that whole truth is to be found on that website. Spiritual truth has to be revealed. It is not something that one can prove. So if proof is what you're looking for, I cannot give it. That's not the way it works. As I've said, it must be revealed. I cannot open your eyes to see truth. Only God can do that.
 

I prefer to follow God and the spiritual truth that is in His word,  and not an organisation on a website that claims they are the only ones who have it right. Any group who does that needs to be avoided.

You do not realise that the site that I've offered is infact true! You do not realise that the site is of, and from, God Himself.

Are you amongst those who refuse to come to God to have life? (John 5:40)

If you knew the truth that is being offered to you, you would embrace it. But as of now you do not know.


I prefer to follow God and the spiritual truth that is in His word,  and not an organisation

Well, do you go to church? If so, you are indeed following an organisation. You are following men, not God. Also, do you intend to follow the bible and not God Himself? (Remember, the bible is not God):

'You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.' (John 5:39-40).

I dont follow man, I never have. The Bible is Gods word to us, powerful and active, and anyone who tries to deny that isnt it be trusted. God is not to be found on a website. He is in us through His Holy Spirit.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Alan on Fri Jan 30, 2015 - 11:16:38
I see your teaching and the teaching you propose to others is already in err by the post I made above concerning John 5:39-40, I'll just leave it at that and offer you sincere blessings on your journey to walk with the truth.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: chosenone on Fri Jan 30, 2015 - 11:18:14
Alan, you say:

Quote
Following a teaching, however pure you believe it to be is simply another denomination.

What if the teaching is true, is it still 'another denomination'?




It is to me (and probably others), since the truth is in the teachings I receive. Do you see the irony?


I see what you mean. Truth cannot be relative and subjective. It is, and must be, objective.

Only one - not even two - of those who say they have the truth, actually possesses it. Many truth-claimers have bits of truth but only one has the whole truth.

Truth is whole and complete...indivisible; not split between denominations! The harlot church of this world is split between itself, and against itself. It's split into fragments of the same colour; but in numerous shades and hues. Each one purporting to have the truth.

Now, for one to be a denomination (i.e. a sect/part/component) one has to belong to the worldwide system of autonomous churches: [url]https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=denomination.[/url] ([url]https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=denomination.[/url]) This system is part of an even bigger system called Religion.

The site ([url=http://www.thepathoftruth.com]www.thepathoftruth.com[/url] ([url]http://www.thepathoftruth.com[/url])) I showed is not at all a denomination. (What do you think defines a denomination? I have just provided an objective definition for you).

To be a denomination the Pathoftruth.com would have to be a 'branch' on the 'tree' that is the worldly system of churches. It would have to be a 'segment' of the 'circle' that is nominal Christianity. But it exists outside of that. The Pathoftruth.com is/part of the Church that is located outside the city gates; whilst the false church(es) are within the corrupt city of Babylon.

'So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood. Therefore let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproach he endured. For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come.' (Hebrews 13:12-13)

This Church I speak of has no physical building, no physical meeting place, no vestry or pulpit, no offering plates or donation boxes, no registration with the government, no practice of religious, formal ordinances and pagan customs. The differences between this Church and all the other churches (i.e. denominations) are much greater than the similiarities it may share with them, such as gathering for fellowship.

Here is the Church that it is:

"...you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect...' (Hebrews 12:22-23)
 

Ah so your group is the church of the first born. I have heard of that before. 
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: MannyO on Fri Jan 30, 2015 - 11:43:02
It's not my teaching. Nor does it belong to, or orignate from, any man. It is from God, and it is He who will have to enable you to see that the teachings are truth. There is no other way to know that the teachings on that site are truth. That site again is: [url=http://www.thepathoftruth.com/]www.thepathoftruth.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.thepathoftruth.com/[/url])


That is what every other teacher says. What makes you so confident YOU have truth and the rest are false?



MeMyself, I tell you again, plain and simply, that the only way I know is because God has personally revealed it to me. And not just to me, but to others aswell.

Do join us, if you wish, for our usual Sabbath chat this Saturday (tomorrow). You can grill us and ask any question. I'm inviting you and anyone else who wishes to attend. The time that it starts is 12.00pm (Mountain time). You're all welcome: www.thepathoftruth.com/chat.htm (http://www.thepathoftruth.com/chat.htm). Also, here's an email address, if there's anything you may want to ask: ask@thepathoftruth.com


The bible is our "safety net" to help us discern who is truly of God and who is not.  Anyone who tries and make others doubt the Word is suspect.  The Word is GOD'S Word and can be trusted far more than any teaching, no matter who claims it is GOD'S!  Following the Bible is following God.  If teaching does not line up with scripture...which SO many are that claim they alone hold truth while condemning all others..it is a wolf and should be run from!


How can one follow a book, or follow teachings? Jesus said 'Come, follow Me!' (Matthew 4:19), not 'Come, Follow my teachings'. If you only follow the bible - and go no further, towards Who the bible points to - then the bible is your god.

The Israelites in the wilderness, who did they follow? The old testament?

Who did the Corinthians follow? The new testament?

Neither of them followed books, they followed men of God.

Which brings me to this:

You are following what the writers of your site are teaching...which is following man.


Yes I am indeed following men... men of God.

'Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ' (1 Corithians 11:1)

But if i follow men who are following God I am also by extension, following God. And there is a difference, you see, between following carnal men and spiritual men (e.g. Paul). How do you know if you're following a man of God, like Paul, or a carnal, false teacher?

The same question could be asked of me. And to that question I answer, "I believe - through divine faith - that these men speak what is true, and are really sent by God". You could also say the same of your teachers; of your men (or women) that you follow. But if we both believe to follow the truth, one of must be deceived. Is it you or I? God knows.

I believe that the POT site and the men who teach on it, are from God Himself. I believe it through the gift of Divine Faith that I also believe has been given to me - through the hearing of His true Word and message (Romans 10:17).

You too can believe - through your own man-made faith - that the people you follow are from God.

But just like there's two types of teachers - the false and the true - there's two types of faith - the divine and the man-made/self-produced. Which one is yours?

MeMyself, I'm here to ask you to make a different choice, to consider different teachings. To come to what is true instead of sticking with what is false. That is why i've been referring you to that site. I'm here to advise you to choose Life, not death, as Moses advised the Israelites (Deuteronomy 30:9-20). Hopefully by this Word that I speak to you, you will be roused and awoken from the death that you are already in - and be resurrected to life... if it is your time.


Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: MeMyself on Fri Jan 30, 2015 - 11:52:47
MeMyself, I tell you again, plain and simply, that the only way I know is because God has personally revealed it to me. And not just to me, but to others aswell.

But, that's no different than me saying He has revealed to me that I AM right with Him and that I AM not in a false church.  ::shrug::  Why is what He shared with you, (that YOU are right and all others doomed) in contradiction to what He has revealed to others?

Quote
Yes I am indeed following men... men of God.

As are all followers of Christ.  Those God has called are men of God..not just those you happen to agree with.



Quote
But if i follow men who are following God I am also following God. And there is a difference, you see, between following carnal men and spiritual men (e.g. Paul). How do you know if you're following a man of God, like Paul, or a carnal, false teacher?

The same question could be asked of me. And to that question I answer, "I believe - through divine faith - that these men speak what is true, and are really sent by God". You could also say the same of your teachers; of your men (or women) that you follow. But if we both say the same, one of must be deceived. Is it you or I? God knows.

Yes, thankfully He does and thankfully He will have mercy on the confused who wish to divide and convince others, that *are* truly serving Him and following His calling, that they are not.

Quote
I believe that the POT site and the men who teach on it, are from God Himself. I believe it through the gift of Divine Faith that has been given to me, through the hearing of His true Word and message (Romans 10:17).

You too can believe - through your own man-made faith - that the people you follow are from God.

Tut-tut! Careful, Manny...the above reveals MUCH about your heart.  That you think you've a right to assign my faith as man made! Father, forgive him...
I will remind you that we are admonished not to think more highly of ourselves than we ought.  Those that do, reek of pride and God is in fact against the proud.



Quote
MeMyself, I'm here to ask you to make a different choice, to consider different teachings. To come to what is true instead of sticking with what is false. That is why i've been referring you to that site. I'm here to advise you to choose Life, not death, as Moses advised the Israelites (Deuteronomy 30:9-20). Hopefully by this Word that I speak to you, you will be roused and awoken from the death that you are already in - and be resurrected to life... if it is your time.

Thanks ever so, but I am already resurrected to life, I follow Christ, have been adopted into the family of God and call Him Father.  In Him, I find my rest.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: LexKnight on Fri Jan 30, 2015 - 12:08:59
This is why Paul came in demonstration of power and not words alone.
Title: Re: Where will I find God's true Church to day ?
Post by: Brian.bkb on Fri Jan 30, 2015 - 14:19:36
This is why Paul came in demonstration of power and not words alone.
Aye.

The path of truth dot com... Victor and Paul right?

I had an internet experience in which  our paths crossed. They even wrote a small piece inspired by our meeting. I was mocked by them for believing Adonai YHWH is Jesus Christ but not Our Father The Most High.

I took the account very seriously. Afterwards YHWH led witnesses into my path to verify what i was thinking, because i had taken it so seriously.

Although i didn't discuss it with them, YHWH gave us the instructions for the calendar. Sabbath does not always fall on Friday afternoon.