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Offline grams

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WHY GO TO CHURCH
« on: Sun Apr 03, 2011 - 20:29:24 »
WHY GO TO CHURCH

[by Leon Anderson, " Bulletin Archive 2002"]


Yes that's right why should I go to church when all you hear is how big of a sinner you are and that the only way that you can get right is to stop doing your evil deeds: But who can completiely stop forever?
The preacher spends too much time talking about how much money you should give. "to the Lord". but does the Lord really spend the money? The preacher talks a good gave about "loving everybody". and "forgiving everybody" in order to be loved and forgiven by God, but does he himself really fulfill all these requirements? There are many more impossible demands that the preacher puts before the people to perform before they can be right with God, but I don't do them so why should I even bother ????


Well you wont hear any of these things at Grace Bible Church because thats where the word of God is taught "Rightly Divided" as God says to do. You will hear that God doesn't talk about you nearly as much as the preacher does, but talks constinually about how his love for you resulted in his Son dying for all that's wrong with you if you would only TRUST Him. God wants to give you eternal life through His Son. He doesn't want your money, He wants you ! So you won't hear so much about how bad you are, but how good God is. You will not be asked to cut out all of your bad habits but will learn that the love of Christ will lead you to "Want" to live for Him. You will learn that God has "ALREADY" forgiven you "ALL" your sins through faith in Jesus Christ. Come and learn what Gods word really teaches, not what the "wisdom" of man teaches. Then your faith will not be placed in "going to church" but in the fact that you along with all other believers, ARE THE CHURCH

This was written by one of the men at our church !

hope I did not make to many  mistakes

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #1 on: Fri Feb 02, 2018 - 18:50:24 »
REASONS FOR COMING TO CHURCH

If you are:

i)    Not coming to God's house regularly, or

ii)    Not seeking to build it, then

Consider these reasons why you should fully direct your energies to build this and other local churches:
1.   God commands us to meet together to consider one another and to PROVOKE one another to love and to good works. "And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much more, as ye see the day approaching." Hebrews 10:24,25.

2.    To rescue people from HELL. "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments..…and said,...... I am tormented in this flame." Luke 16:23,24.

3.    By coming to church, you TEACH YOUR CHILDREN that God's House is important.

   By not coming to church, you teach your children to forsake God, God's House, God's people and God's work. You also teach them that the things of God do not matter. Deuteronomy 6:4,9.

4.    Coming to church is an unselfish thing that we do:

i)    To put ourselves out to help others,

ii)    To glorify God,

iii)    To extend God's kingdom. Matthew 6:33.

5.    You will never be fruitful 100 fold by avoiding church. Do you want to be fruitful? Matt. 13:23.

6.    If you know what is right and don’t do it, God will count you as unfaithful. Luke 12:42-48.

7.    It proves our love for God and for others. II Corinthians 8:8.

8.    If Christ gave eternal life to us, we should give our time and life for God and others. II Cor. 8:9.

9.    Not to suffer loss of rewards in eternity. I Corinthians 3:10-15.

10.    Coming to church proves our salvation, because we show our love for the brethren.I John 3:14-16

11.    Jesus went to God's house weekly. Luke 4:16.

12.    To learn obedience.If we obey God by attending church,we'll obeyGod in big things.Luk16:10-21

13.    To become a Bible Teacher. Hebrews 5:12.

14.    To become great in God's eyes like Moses who:

i)    Refused worldly honour, v.24

ii)    Chose to suffer affliction with the people of God,

iii)    Did not pursue the pleasures of sin for a season,

iv)    He had respect for the recompense of God's eternal reward. (Hebrews 11:24-27).

15.   We are being watched by so great a cloud of witness of angels and departed believers. Heb.12:1.

16.    To be a labourer in God's harvest. Matthew 9:36-38.

   To reap and receive eternal wages and gather fruit unto eternal life. John 4:34-38.

17.    a)  To multiply our talents. Matthew 25:19-21.

b)    For God to say "Well done thou good and faithful servant.”

c)    To become ruler over many things. Matthew 24:44-45.

18.    To lay up treasures in Heaven. Matthew 6:19.

19.    The Lord is coming soon. I John 2:28; Romans 14:12. We will all have to give account of our life and actions to God. We will be either confident or ashamed.
   Revelation 3:11.

20.    If you reject the Holy Spirit’s promptings on big things like church, you'll never hear God's promptings on important smaller things.
21.    The preacher’s message at church is often exactly what you need to hear from God.

22.    To get re-motivated and inspired to serve God.

23.    To set up a lighthouse for the truth of Christ and salvation to the community. Matthew 5:16.

24.    So you can notice and encourage any new or struggling people.

25.    So you can get the advice of Godly Christians regarding problems you may have.

26.    So you can help fight and pull in the spiritual battle for souls. Ephesians 6:11-19.

27.    So you can learn soul winning. Matthew 4:19.

28.    So you honour the Lord with your tithes and support and send out missionaries. Malachi 3:7-12.

29.    You get your next instructions from God at church.

30.    It is the first base to spiritual growth.

31.    Building this church is a key to multiplying other churches.

32.    It gives you self discipline to learn more.

Offline MeMyself

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #2 on: Sat Feb 03, 2018 - 09:11:44 »
on the walls of one church we attended it said something like "the Church is about to leave the building".

We go to get recharged, and we go out to live what we believe, praying that will draw the lost to our Savior.

Offline grams

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #3 on: Mon Feb 05, 2018 - 07:33:58 »


And  at  Grace Bible  Church ,  we have a great  fellow ship...  We  enjoy each other's company ! 

The last  church I went to  before going to  G.B.C..   as soon as the service was over every one was in a rush

to get to there cars  and zip off............

Offline MeMyself

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #4 on: Mon Feb 05, 2018 - 08:55:25 »

And  at  Grace Bible  Church ,  we have a great  fellow ship...  We  enjoy each other's company ! 

The last  church I went to  before going to  G.B.C..   as soon as the service was over every one was in a rush

to get to there cars  and zip off............

Don't assume that they didn't enjoy each other, or that they weren't glad to go there...just sounds like a church filled with introverted people that would sooner die than have to stand about making small talk.

I cannot do small talk.  At. all.  I love people though.

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #4 on: Mon Feb 05, 2018 - 08:55:25 »



Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #5 on: Mon Feb 05, 2018 - 15:05:05 »
If we import an Obsolete Covenant mindset, then we "go to church" (in a special "holy" edifice constructed just for that purpose) because the presence of God is "there" in a unique way.

If we are legalists, we "go to church" because the book of Hebrews "commands" it.

If we are proper New Covenant believers, we gather together -- whenever, wherever -- in order to love and encourage each other.

Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #6 on: Mon Feb 05, 2018 - 15:07:40 »
So many of you sucked in by the evils of "Churchianity."

 ::preachit::

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #7 on: Mon Feb 05, 2018 - 15:30:34 »
If we import an Obsolete Covenant mindset, then we "go to church" (in a special "holy" edifice constructed just for that purpose) because the presence of God is "there" in a unique way.

If we are legalists, we "go to church" because the book of Hebrews "commands" it.

If we are proper New Covenant believers, we gather together -- whenever, wherever -- in order to love and encourage each other.

+1

Offline MeMyself

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #8 on: Mon Feb 05, 2018 - 17:23:19 »
If we are proper New Covenant believers, we gather together -- whenever, wherever -- in order to love and encourage each other.

 ::smile::

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #9 on: Mon Feb 05, 2018 - 20:32:38 »
If we import an Obsolete Covenant mindset, then we "go to church" (in a special "holy" edifice constructed just for that purpose) because the presence of God is "there" in a unique way.

If we are legalists, we "go to church" because the book of Hebrews "commands" it.

If we are proper New Covenant believers, we gather together -- whenever, wherever -- in order to love and encourage each other.

We are far too occupied with "what do I get out of it" then we are with "what does God get out of it".
God wants to be worshiped by His people, not only individually but also communal.

The reason for going to church should not start with "If we are..." it should start with "God wants..."

Why would one go to church? Because God wants you there.
He wants you there because He is there, He wants you there because He wants to be worshiped and He wants you there for each other.

It is not either obsolete or legalistic or proper...we go to church for all these reasons.

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #10 on: Mon Feb 05, 2018 - 21:09:44 »
We are far too occupied with "what do I get out of it" then we are with "what does God get out of it".

It is just as easy to fall into the trap of thinking that "what God gets out of it" is something separate unto itself.  That approaches the thinking of the Pharisees who carefully tithed their spices, but neglected the more important things -- justice, mercy, faithfulness.


Quote
God wants to be worshiped by His people, not only individually but also communal.

The reason for going to church should not start with "If we are..." it should start with "God wants..."

Why would one go to church? Because God wants you there.
He wants you there because He is there, He wants you there because He wants to be worshiped and He wants you there for each other.

It is not either obsolete or legalistic or proper...we go to church for all these reasons.

You are of course free to follow your own convictions.  Mine -- and obviously, those of many others -- differ.  Yes, God is "there," but in the New Covenant, the *people* that comprise the Church are -- corporately but also individually -- the temple of the Holy Spirit.  There is nothing special about a church edifice, which did not even exist as such when the NT was written, that requires us to go "there" to worship.  The idea that there is a special sacred "place" for worship is indeed an Obsolete Covenant concept.  While it is good to praise and worship God, it is notable that, speaking of what God "wants," Scripture says He desires "loyal love, not sacrifices" and that we "promote justice and treasure loyal love and walk humbly with our God."

Offline RB

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #11 on: Tue Feb 06, 2018 - 05:28:56 »
REASONS FOR COMING TO CHURCH
What do you mean by that statement? Now should the church COME together in in one place? Yes, for we should NOT forsake the opportunity to come together in one place, be that by the riverside, homes, or even a modest building, for the sole purpose of teaching the word of God, breaking bread and fellowship.
Quote from: KiwiChristian Fri Feb 02, 2018 -18:50:24
If you are:

i)    Not coming to God's house regularly, or

ii)    Not seeking to build it, then

Consider these reasons why you should fully direct your energies to build this and other local churches:
1.   God commands us to meet together to consider one another and to PROVOKE one another to love and to good works. "And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much more, as ye see the day approaching." Hebrews 10:24,25.
God is NOT worshiped in a building made by hands, but is loved and worship in the holy temple of Gods' elect's hearts!
Quote from: KiwiChristian Fri Feb 02, 2018 -18:50:24
Not seeking to build it, then
Can you give me ONE scripture that demands me as a child of God to build a local body of believers? I can build them up in their most holy faith, but the Lord adds to the church daily those who are called by grace, (see Acts 2:47) my duty is to SEEK THEM OUT and love them and be a true source of help and strength to them. Today's church planning and building is all the work of men who are sensual, who have not the Spirit of God, men who serve their own lust, the Joel Osteen's of this world, they are everywhere and growing by the day.
Quote from: KiwiChristian Fri Feb 02, 2018 -18:50:24
   To rescue people from HELL. "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments..…and said,...... I am tormented in this flame." Luke 16:23,24.
That is NOT my calling or any other man of God. That's Catholicism packaged and sent out under the name of Christianity's calling while living in this world. God alone regenerates his people, he does NOT need your money, hands, and feet, thank you very much! Our calling is to INSTRUCT THEM, feed them and love them~PERIOD! There is NO such doctrine as a present burning hellfire, this is NOT taught in God's word. There WILL BE a lake of fire, which John said IS the SECOND death, but that is in the future. The doctrine of a present hellfire is Catholicism that comes from their doctrine of purgatory, and many have taken hold of that doctrine and again repackaged it and now teach a present burning hellfire for all that died in their sins and in hell they will suffer world without end...OH wait a minute, they DO teach that God will take them out to judge them and then put them back again for eternity! Now, WHERE do you get that doctrine from? from your big sister RCC/EOC! You know her, you are always fighting with her!
Quote from: KiwiChristian Fri Feb 02, 2018 -18:50:24
By coming to church, you TEACH YOUR CHILDREN that God's House is important.  By not coming to church, you teach your children to forsake God, God's House, God's people and God's work. You also teach them that the things of God do not matter. Deuteronomy 6:4,9.
I'm coming back and answer this one and some more later....
« Last Edit: Tue Feb 06, 2018 - 05:35:44 by RB »

Offline 4WD

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #12 on: Tue Feb 06, 2018 - 06:14:59 »
The real problem today is that the meeting together on Sunday Morning is called "the worship service".  And that simply was not the purpose of meeting together in the NT times.  And to make matters worse, what happens in the "worship service"?  There is some fellowship and that is good.  There is [in some] the taking of communion and that is good.  There is some singing and some is good although in these modern times the so-called "praise hymns" that are sung are, in my opinion, not very good; most are so far inferior to the old hymns as to be almost shameful.  And then we get the "sermon", which more often than not has almost nothing to do with the "apostles' doctrine".  Consequently we have entire generations growing up in our "churches" who are largely ignorant of the gospel message.  They are theologically challenged to the point that they really have no basis for what they believe.  I am not talking here about whether their theology is correct or incorrect.  To a great extent, they have no theology, right or wrong.  They simply have little to no basis for what they believe.  And when things do not go well for them, they do not have the ground under them to provide the spiritual support they need.

AVZ

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #13 on: Tue Feb 06, 2018 - 06:15:11 »
It is just as easy to fall into the trap of thinking that "what God gets out of it" is something separate unto itself.  That approaches the thinking of the Pharisees who carefully tithed their spices, but neglected the more important things -- justice, mercy, faithfulness.


You are of course free to follow your own convictions.  Mine -- and obviously, those of many others -- differ.  Yes, God is "there," but in the New Covenant, the *people* that comprise the Church are -- corporately but also individually -- the temple of the Holy Spirit.  There is nothing special about a church edifice, which did not even exist as such when the NT was written, that requires us to go "there" to worship.  The idea that there is a special sacred "place" for worship is indeed an Obsolete Covenant concept.  While it is good to praise and worship God, it is notable that, speaking of what God "wants," Scripture says He desires "loyal love, not sacrifices" and that we "promote justice and treasure loyal love and walk humbly with our God."

Actually the New Testament describes for us that there was a "there" where people went to worship together.
And when the number of believers were small, that "there" could be someones living room or kitchen or courtyard.
But when the number of believers grew a bigger "there" was needed. And the larger the number of believers...the larger the building required to gather together.

Nobody here is demanding that the church building must be a sacred place, although I think that when entering a church you behave yourself in a respectful manner.
It is after all a house of worship.

God wants us to worship Him together. And a church building facilitates that. And that's why you go there.

AVZ

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #14 on: Tue Feb 06, 2018 - 06:22:27 »
The real problem today is that the meeting together on Sunday Morning is called "the worship service".  And that simply was not the purpose of meeting together in the NT times.  And to make matters worse, what happens in the "worship service"?  There is some fellowship and that is good.  There is [in some] the taking of communion and that is good.  There is some singing and some is good although in these modern times the so-called "praise hymns" that are sung are, in my opinion, not very good; most are so far inferior to the old hymns as to be almost shameful.  And then we get the "sermon", which more often than not has almost nothing to do with the "apostles' doctrine".  Consequently we have entire generations growing up in our "churches" who are largely ignorant of the gospel message.  They are theologically challenged to the point that they really have no basis for what they believe.  I am not talking here about whether their theology is correct or incorrect.  To a great extent, they have no theology, right or wrong.  They simply have little to no basis for what they believe.  And when things do not go well for them, they do not have the ground under them to provide the spiritual support they need.

That's because people build the church around their lives instead of build their lives around the church.

Offline 4WD

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #15 on: Tue Feb 06, 2018 - 06:45:12 »
That's because people build the church around their lives instead of build their lives around the church.

It is because God's word is not being taught; instead it is [sort of] just being talked about.  It is simply not possible to learn much about God's word listening to today's sermons.  And there is little real study of God's word being provided in the churches today.  An acquaintance of mine several years ago took a Sabbatical and visited many churches throughout the country over a period of many months.  He noted that there were almost no sermons that he listened to in those many, many weeks where Jesus was even mentioned, let alone given any prominence or importance in those sermons.  Unfortunately, those 20-30 minutes that are most sermons are about the only exposure most have to God's word.

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #16 on: Tue Feb 06, 2018 - 07:00:30 »
It is because God's word is not being taught; instead it is [sort of] just being talked about.  It is simply not possible to learn much about God's word listening to today's sermons.  And there is little real study of God's word being provided in the churches today.  An acquaintance of mine several years ago took a Sabbatical and visited many churches throughout the country over a period of many months.  He noted that there were almost no sermons that he listened to in those many, many weeks where Jesus was even mentioned, let alone given any prominence or importance in those sermons.  Unfortunately, those 20-30 minutes that are most sermons are about the only exposure most have to God's word.

Every local body I have been involved with in my tradition is big on expository preaching.  Not a lot of topical sermons.

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #17 on: Tue Feb 06, 2018 - 07:18:09 »
Every local body I have been involved with in my tradition is big on expository preaching.  Not a lot of topical sermons.
That is an improvement; however, expository or not, the total time involved in the typical sermon is totally insufficient to teach much of anything.  And even when expository sermons have some continuity, they can't begin to provide any depth of understanding of Bible content.  If that is the limit of ones exposure to the gospel, and that typically is, it is not enough.  Perhaps you your local body still has a functioning "Sunday School" or "Bible School" or "Bible Study Group" it is helpful.  That is certainly better than nothing, but I think such "schools" or "Study Groups" are not all that prominent any more.

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #18 on: Tue Feb 06, 2018 - 07:33:35 »
That is an improvement; however, expository or not, the total time involved in the typical sermon is totally insufficient to teach much of anything.  And even when expository sermons have some continuity, they can't begin to provide any depth of understanding of Bible content.  If that is the limit of ones exposure to the gospel, and that typically is, it is not enough.  Perhaps you your local body still has a functioning "Sunday School" or "Bible School" or "Bible Study Group" it is helpful.  That is certainly better than nothing, but I think such "schools" or "Study Groups" are not all that prominent any more.

Sunday school in the morning, sunday night bible study at night.

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #19 on: Tue Feb 06, 2018 - 08:33:35 »
Sunday school in the morning, sunday night bible study at night.
Good for you and your congregation!!

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #20 on: Tue Feb 06, 2018 - 08:46:40 »
The real problem today is that the meeting together on Sunday Morning is called "the worship service".  And that simply was not the purpose of meeting together in the NT times.  And to make matters worse, what happens in the "worship service"?  There is some fellowship and that is good.  There is [in some] the taking of communion and that is good.  There is some singing and some is good although in these modern times the so-called "praise hymns" that are sung are, in my opinion, not very good; most are so far inferior to the old hymns as to be almost shameful.  And then we get the "sermon", which more often than not has almost nothing to do with the "apostles' doctrine".  Consequently we have entire generations growing up in our "churches" who are largely ignorant of the gospel message.  They are theologically challenged to the point that they really have no basis for what they believe.  I am not talking here about whether their theology is correct or incorrect.  To a great extent, they have no theology, right or wrong.  They simply have little to no basis for what they believe.  And when things do not go well for them, they do not have the ground under them to provide the spiritual support they need.
Agreed
« Last Edit: Tue Feb 06, 2018 - 09:39:46 by RB »

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #21 on: Tue Feb 06, 2018 - 15:12:40 »
Generally on this topic...

Two days ago, a lady-friend and I visited two area churches.  One is her "regular" church -- a Christian Assembly -- but she's not entirely satisfied.  The other is a campus of this local church.  These visits prompted me to post the following on Facebook:

-------------

I am happy to "visit" various churches.  As far as "belonging" to a church, I'm pretty hard to satisfy.

-- I want a generous helping of the generally Psa. 149-150 style of music that characterized the churches and fellowships I attended in my "formative" years ('80s to early '90s).

-- I'm Pentecostal/Charismatic, so I want 1 Cor. 12-14; Rom. 12:6-8; Eph. 4:11-12; Eph. 5:18-19 to be at least recognizable in most services.

I just can't feel "at home" in the absence of those above elements.


-- I'm long past being willing to tolerate "Name it and Claim it" or "Prosperity Gospel" foolishness.

-- I'm only slightly more willing to tolerate hard-core "holy roller" stuff, especially getting "drunk in the Spirit."

-- I won't tolerate a church that has a list (official or otherwise) of "holiness" standards that effectively becomes a modern version of a Torah.

Related to that, I won't tolerate a church that de facto teaches, "Saved by grace, kept (or perfected) by works."

Those are perilously close to the false gospel that Paul anathematized and described as being "severed from Christ" in Galatians.

-- I won't be part of a church that discourages women from leadership positions, including head pastoral ministries.

------------

Needless to say, it's difficult to find a church that meets my stringent standards.  And the process of looking for one is complicated by my... metabolism, or whatever.  It typically takes anywhere from 2 to 6 hours, sometimes more, from the start of my day for me to feel alert and coordinated enough to drive.  Anyway, that's a peripheral issue.

I'm not sure how well that went over on Facebook.  Most of my family belongs to a little local Lutheran church of the largest and most liberal branch.  This is a very "Catholic" area, so a chunk of my Friends list is in that camp.  Many of my closest friends are Pentecostals, but of the sort that are much more open to the "Name it and Claim it" and "drunk in the Spirit" stuff.

I do know that I was not flooded with "Hey, you should try THIS church" replies.  ::shrug::

At those two churches we visited, I found the music notably disappointing.  It seemed bland and rather shallow.  At both churches, the lyrics seemed to focus on God's goodness and love toward "us," almost to the exclusion of His inherent greatness.  Both are good ("Amazing Grace" is, after all, pretty "us-focused"), but my preference is for more balance.

Offline 4WD

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #22 on: Tue Feb 06, 2018 - 16:07:19 »
NorrinRadd,

You make the error that so many do.  They ask what do I get out of going to church.  The real question is what does the church get out of my going.  It is about what you put into church, not what you get out of it.  Now with that being said, I do recognize the need for and the advantage of aligning with a congregation that believes, at least somewhat, as you do.

Offline Jaime

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #23 on: Tue Feb 06, 2018 - 16:35:57 »
When I do a “post mortem” investigation of why I like a particular congregation vs ones I wasn’t crazy about, it usually boiled down to what my wife and I contributed to the mix (not talking about the offering). A good body of Christ is made up of givers of themselves. It usually had little to do with the likeability of the preacher or the awesomeness of the worship. Though those things usually will be high on our list of wants.

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #24 on: Tue Feb 06, 2018 - 16:46:53 »
NorrinRadd,

You make the error that so many do.  They ask what do I get out of going to church.  The real question is what does the church get out of my going.  It is about what you put into church, not what you get out of it.  Now with that being said, I do recognize the need for and the advantage of aligning with a congregation that believes, at least somewhat, as you do.

Perhaps.  But in my view, it's that I'm seeking a church that does a decent job of representing Scripture as I understand it.

In any case, I'll not be lowering my standards any time in the next 70 years or so.

Offline mommydi

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #25 on: Tue Feb 06, 2018 - 17:01:21 »
When I do a “post mortem” investigation of why I like a particular congregation vs ones I wasn’t crazy about, it usually boiled down to what my wife and I contributed to the mix (not talking about the offering). A good body of Christ is made up of givers of themselves. It usually had little to do with the likeability of the preacher or the awesomeness of the worship. Though those things usually will be high on our list of wants.

Interesting, but overly giving of yourself can also be a downer.
I got burned out giving of myself at one of my previous congregations. It was a small congregation of about 80 on Sunday mornings. I taught a kid's class on both Sunday morning and Wednesday night and watched babies in the cry room during the sermon. Did the whole VBS thing. Felt it was my responsibility to make up for people who didn't bring food for fellowship dinners. Of course, I stayed after every fellowship dinner until the last fork was washed and every crumb was removed from the floor, etc, etc, etc....
I left there for several reasons and ended up in a large congregation where I could sit on one of the back few rows and not be bothered, and where the children's class and VBS wasn't dependent on me to get done. I rarely attended fellowship dinners at the large congregation.

I wasn't attending the large congregation for fellowship, and I think they knew. So all this to say - if someone in your congregation never adds to the mix - contributes time for whatevers - try not to force them. It may take all they have just to show up.





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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #26 on: Tue Feb 06, 2018 - 17:41:23 »
NorrinRadd,

You make the error that so many do.  They ask what do I get out of going to church.  The real question is what does the church get out of my going.  It is about what you put into church, not what you get out of it.  Now with that being said, I do recognize the need for and the advantage of aligning with a congregation that believes, at least somewhat, as you do.


I disagree to a point, the church should be a vessel for God's word. On any given day there will be people in attendance that have no idea what to expect or why they're even there. The church needs to speak to these people and touch their spirit. Combine that with regular members that need to hear something that may have been weighing on their hearts and you have the church in position of responsibility to deliver. People should indeed take a lot from going to church.

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #27 on: Tue Feb 06, 2018 - 21:07:33 »
Mommydi, I agree you can’t and shouldn’t force people into involvement. I guess what I meant to say but didn’t was not really the work aspect but the “friend making” aspect. We moved a lot when we were younger and the congregations where we made the first move to introduce ourselves or try and establish relationships, we did and our perception of the congregation was better than when we kinda remained passive. When we were intentional with relationships, they happened when we weren’t, they didn’t. Some congregations are clique-ish or whatever and others are over the top the other way. I’m just saying we were able to fill our need of building new relationships in a new place, when WE were intent on it happening. Not really natural, but a young couple in a new place needs to build friendships in church asap to make the new city or town feel like home.

Sometimes “invisibility” IS a plus in a bigger congregation, but we all need good close brothers and sisters in Christ.

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #28 on: Tue Feb 06, 2018 - 22:20:30 »
Perhaps.  But in my view, it's that I'm seeking a church that does a decent job of representing Scripture as I understand it.

In other words, you seek a church that bounces back on you the things you agree with.
And that's exactly the problem with many churches and believers today.

Believers only want to hear what they can agree on, and if somehow they feel challenged...off they go.
The church is watering down the message so everybody leaves satisfied and nobody is challenged.
That's not church life. You may as well make your own sermon, record it and play it back to yourself.

Real church life starts when challenges and disagreements are presented.
Those are the reasons why people get involved. That's how a church becomes productive.

You say "I will not tolerate this and that".
If you are unable to tolerate differences in opinion from your own congregation, and I am not talking about core theological issues, how will you ever be able to tolerate the opinion of a non-believer if he or she does not conform to your "standards"?

This is the negative side of the Reformation and Protestantism.
Although it was never the intent of the Reformers, it has created a platform on which every believer can make his or her own theology, and if no suitable church can be found that conforms to the personal opinions, people create their own church. That's why we have so many denominations and "house churches".
And to be fair, the Catholic Church is completely correct to agitate against this dilution within the Protestant community.

Unfortunately it is exactly as the Bible says: "For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #29 on: Wed Feb 07, 2018 - 01:34:28 »
In other words, you seek a church that bounces back on you the things you agree with.

Yes, those are indeed "other words."  They are also WRONG words, and arrogantly presumptuous words.


Quote
And that's exactly the problem with many churches and believers today.

Believers only want to hear what they can agree on, and if somehow they feel challenged...off they go.
The church is watering down the message so everybody leaves satisfied and nobody is challenged.

Sorry, I'm about two decades past the point where I'm willing to attend a church that will "challenge" me to accept Word-Faith or Toronto Blessing on the one hand, or virtual or actual cessationism on the other; right living that amounts to legalism; patriarchy disguising itself as "complementarianism"; insipid music that forces me to literally close my eyes to the lyrics, and leaves me unmoved and hoping no one notices my boredom.

I am, however, quite willing to accept challenges to be more of a servant, to be more ready to share the Gospel, etc.

Quote
That's not church life. You may as well make your own sermon, record it and play it back to yourself.

The two sermons Sunday were not terrible, but were kind of short (barely over 20 minutes each) and light on Scripture.

There's no shortage of good teaching online.  But I hate being stuck at the computer that way.  It would be great if I could get teachings by Gordon Fee or Craig Keener or Ben Witherington or a few others on my TV.

Quote
Real church life starts when challenges and disagreements are presented.
Those are the reasons why people get involved. That's how a church becomes productive.

When I disagree strongly, I challenge strongly, and I get asked to leave.

Quote
You say "I will not tolerate this and that".
If you are unable to tolerate differences in opinion from your own congregation, and I am not talking about core theological issues, how will you ever be able to tolerate the opinion of a non-believer if he or she does not conform to your "standards"?

I have much different expecations of infidels.

And I am delighted to attend ecclectic Bible studies.  The opportunity to deal with differing beliefs in that setting, and to try to do so politely, is a wonderful "challenge."  But no, I will no longer "tolerate" trying to be part of a church that is alien to me.

Quote
This is the negative side of the Reformation and Protestantism.
Although it was never the intent of the Reformers, it has created a platform on which every believer can make his or her own theology, and if no suitable church can be found that conforms to the personal opinions, people create their own church. That's why we have so many denominations and "house churches".
And to be fair, the Catholic Church is completely correct to agitate against this dilution within the Protestant community.

Unfortunately it is exactly as the Bible says: "For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

Of course, what constitutes "myth" and "truth" is in the ear of the hearer.

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #30 on: Wed Feb 07, 2018 - 04:02:37 »
You make the error that so many do.  They ask what do I get out of going to church.  The real question is what does the church get out of my going.  It is about what you put into church, not what you get out of it.  Now with that being said, I do recognize the need for and the advantage of aligning with a congregation that believes, at least somewhat, as you do.
Agree~It is every member of Christ's body serving one another for the edification, comfort, and growth of our fellow believers. It is each member esteeming the very least member as an equal and essential and necessary member of the body. The professing church of the twenty-first century thinks the church is much like the local country club~where people pair off with those they like the best and the ones that offer them the most for the gratification of their flesh~ leaving certain ones (mostly poor and uneducated and unattractive) out of their inner circle, loop, etc. People exalt certain ones higher than others, thinking (are they SO WRONG) some have no gifts to offer them judging from a fleshly and sinful desires of serving SELF.... they want to be near the Peter's, Paul's and the eloquent Apollos'~this only reveals our pride and selfishness, and lack of genuine faith. I know this too well, I have been guilty of this in my younger days of serving self and not others. Speaking from experience and what goes on all of the time~it's so easy to get caught up in this wicked sin of serving my fleshly desires of pleasing ME and having others looking at me instead of serving the Lord Jesus and his body....... ALL of them even the most undesirable and least attractive! Certain parts of our body are not that attractive, yet they are needful for the profit of our body, so likewise is Christ's Body. Consider carefully 1st Corinthians 12:12-31
« Last Edit: Wed Feb 07, 2018 - 04:11:46 by RB »

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #31 on: Wed Feb 07, 2018 - 04:47:28 »
3. By coming to church, you TEACH YOUR CHILDREN that God's House is important.
I refuse to judge your intent, just want clarify your points, or align them more with the word of God. 

I think the professing Chrisitan world has done a good job of making people "mindfully religious" toward a Supreme Being, no problem there.

We should train our children in the way they should live in this world before God by teaching our children the word of God per Moses and Paul daily so that they can live in this world. We daily teach them how to pray and live doing these things before them DAILY from birth until they leave on their own. Taking them to a worship place or sending them, means nothing without DAILY praying and teaching the scriptures before them by doing these things WE ARE SHOWING then HOW they themselves should live so as to please the God of the holy scriptures. Doing these things daily takes WORK~going to a place of worship does not.
Quote from: KiwiChristian Fri Feb 02, 2018 - 18:50:24
By not coming to church, you teach your children to forsake God, God's House, God's people and God's work. You also teach them that the things of God do not matter. Deuteronomy 6:4,9.
Agreed that if we forsake the opportunity to meet with God's people then we are sending them this message~also, if we have done our job from their birth to the time they leave, then they will have the proper tools to make sound judgments on their own to determine where God's word is taught and where it is not taught~if they are unable to make a judgment they KNOW who to ask since they should have confidence in their unbringing to know whom they can trust to still give them faithful advice and counsel.

We cannot leave children to themselves and trusting that if we just take them to church once or twice a week they will see the importance of serving God~it does not work that way.
Quote from: KiwiChristian Fri Feb 02, 2018 - 18:50:24
4.    Coming to church is an unselfish thing that we do:

i)    To put ourselves out to help others,

ii)    To glorify God,

iii)    To extend God's kingdom. Matthew 6:33.
Not really, it may be a selfish thing in serving self as I said above. Plus, many businessmen use this as a tool to enhance their business. Youth meet other youth for fleshly desires.
Quote from: KiwiChristian Fri Feb 02, 2018 - 18:50:24
To put ourselves out to help others,
Not so~most of our godly works are done in secret! Not in public, or where others can see and praise us.

Coming back.....RB
« Last Edit: Wed Feb 07, 2018 - 04:49:53 by RB »

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #32 on: Wed Feb 07, 2018 - 07:22:47 »
5. You will never be fruitful 100 fold by avoiding church. Do you want to be fruitful? Matt. 13:23.
First of all, your definition of what constitutes a "church" is unscriptural, so this statement has no scriptural merits.
Quote from: Jesus
Matthew 13:23~"But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty."
So, by using this scripture, to support your saying (even though it seems as though you copied and pasted this, which, that's okay, it still means you support it) are you saying that one needs to be in an outward assembly with others professors before one can produce fruits of the Spirit in their life? Then my question to you would be: "What church did Jesus attend, or was part of?" He was without question outside of those who worshipped in the Temple of the Jews in his day!
Quote
Hebrews 13~"Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate."
Many of God's children have ALWAYS been OUTSIDE of organized religion...ALWAYS!
Quote
Hebrews 11:33-40~"Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."
Catholicism and all megachurches would agree with you, but I know better. Even toward in the end of Paul's life ALL forsook him, except a few close friends! In our day, no true child of God with convictions and truth are welcome in MOST of the professing churches, and I mean MOST. These latter-day churches are looking for rubber stamp professors not sincere godly believers with convictions based on the word of God. Enough on this point.
Quote from: KiwiChristian on Fri Feb 02, 2018 - 18:50:24
6. If you know what is right and don’t do it, God will count you as unfaithful. Luke 12:42-48.
True, that's why I have obeyed Paul:
Quote from: Paul
2nd Timothy 3:1-5~This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
« Last Edit: Wed Feb 07, 2018 - 07:29:53 by RB »

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #33 on: Wed Feb 07, 2018 - 07:57:54 »
7. It proves our love for God and for others. II Corinthians 8:8.
Quote from: Paul
2nd Corinthians 8:8~"I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love."
Sir, do you truly want me to tell you how you and I can show the sincerity of our love for others? Let Jesus tell us both:
Quote from: Jesus
Luke 21:21~"Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto."
If one truly understands Jesus' teaching which I'm convinced I do, then the exhortation is clear. The tribulation spoke by Christ in this Olivet discourse is spiritual in nature and has reference to the days just before his coming, and it's referring to Judaea which in the OT was the place where people went to worship, where the Temple was located, under the NT, Judaea is the type of outward professing churches where God is worshiped that has become like Israel of old~a place where false religion has taken over~so, in this discourse Jesus warned his people to FLEE unto the mountains, or, a place of safety, not only must we flee, but we are to WARNED others NOT to enter therein, lest they are partakers of their destruction! So, do you truly want to show the sincerity of your love to God and your fellow man? Then we must flee the corruption in most churches and warn others to do likewise.
« Last Edit: Wed Feb 07, 2018 - 09:08:34 by RB »

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Re: WHY GO TO CHURCH
« Reply #34 on: Wed Feb 07, 2018 - 09:38:04 »
8. If Christ gave eternal life to us, we should give our time and life for God and others. II Cor. 8:9.
Agreed~Yet, many have done this without ever darken a place of worship~ that's giving themselves to and for others. These things can be done without a believer subjecting himself to the false religion that most outward professing churches are ruled by in our day.
Quote from: KiwiChristian on Fri Feb 02, 2018 - 18:50:24
9. Not to suffer loss of rewards in eternity. I Corinthians 3:10-15.
Withdrawing one's self from the churches of the twenty-first century will save that person from false brethren, and false doctrine. More scriptural reasons to withdraw than to be partakers of their evil deeds.
Quote from: KiwiChristian on Fri Feb 02, 2018 - 18:50:24
10. Coming to church proves our salvation, because we show our love for the brethren.I John 3:14-16
Really? Then the Pope and the Cardinals and priests, have a salvation that you and I cannot have for they very seldom leave their station in outwardly performing religious duties! We show our love for the brethren in living out the fruits of the spirit TOWARD THEM even second of every day...many times we fall so short, yet we are constantly striving to do as commanded by God.
Quote from: Peter
2nd Peter 1:5-8~"And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Going to outward places of worship is easy work, but to labor to love those who are not so loveable at times is hard, and takes WORK!
Quote from: KiwiChristian on Fri Feb 02, 2018 - 18:50:24
11. Jesus went to God's house weekly. Luke 4:16.
Coming back to this point later~I think you just might want to rethink your post, but we shall see.
« Last Edit: Wed Feb 07, 2018 - 09:41:19 by RB »

 

     
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