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Offline onedayplease

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hatred of parents
« on: April 17, 2012, 05:55:35 AM »
The Bible says that anyone who curses his or her parents should be put to death (Matthew 15:4, Leviticus 20:9 and many others), but Jesus is quoted as saying that in order to be his disciple you have to hate your mother and father (Luke 14:26).
I hate my mother and father a lot. For example, all the pictures of me as a child they display around the house are naked ones. I don't know if the Bible says anything about this, but it doesn't seem right to me. When my friends come round and laugh at them, my parents laugh with them. And this is just the tip of the iceberg, BELIEVE ME. So my question is this... if I curse my parents, will I be put to death? And who will put me to death? If Jesus wants you to hate your parents, and vocalising your hatred results in death, and the death of someone who follows Jesus' instructions results in that person going to heaven, does this mean that simply calling my parents b*stards will get me straight into heaven?

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hatred of parents
« on: April 17, 2012, 05:55:35 AM »

Offline DaveW

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Re: hatred of parents
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2012, 06:46:12 AM »
First off - welcome to the forums!

You have to understand the bible was NOT written in english, and sometimes the translation choices are unfortunate, even misleading. That sometimes happens when there is no good choice for a word in the target language. At other times it happens when the translators do not recognize figures of speech, idiomatic usages and slang.

When Jesus said to hate father and mother, it was a figure of speech meaning that you love them less than you do HIM.  The same figure of speech was used when it said that God loved Jacob and hated Esau. God loves everyone, but because of his rebellion and hard head, God loved him less than Jacob (even though Jacob was a trickster).

No, you will not be killed today for cursing your parents. And the bible specifically prohibits holding unforgiveness (grudges) against anyone, including parents.

I had a dad who beat me to almost unconciousness frequently as a pre-schooler and thru first grade. I later found out I had to forgive him for the abuse.

You also will need to forgive. To carry a grudge is a sin and many believe it is a sin that will keep you out of heaven.  So if you curse your parents and then die, it is NOT a guarentee of going straight to heaven.

I saw in your profile you are 18.  That is old enough to call your parents to account for their behavior which I am sure they think is "cute" (showing nudie baby pics).  There is a NT COMMAND for fathers (by implication all parents) to not incite their children to wrath (or exasperation) depending on the translation.

Eph 6.4 (ESV) Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

Rather than calling them names, you would be much better off explaining why you find them showing those pics embaressing or shameful and just how angry it makes you. Ask them nicely to put them away and not show them again. If they will not comply, talk to the pastor. (this is following a pattern set in Matthew 18)

I wish you well and again, welcome to the forums! ::smile::
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 06:55:40 AM by DaveW »

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Re: hatred of parents
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2012, 06:46:12 AM »

Offline onedayplease

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Re: hatred of parents
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2012, 08:59:39 AM »
Hello, and thanks for the warm welcome!
Unfortunately I've tried to forgive my parents, but they just keep doing the same things. I find it reassuring to know they are going against what is said in Eph 6.4 (ESV) because that means they will probably go to Hell. I know that sounds harsh, and that I am commanded not to bear a grudge, but I believe it's permitted for me to carry the grudge if God does too (if He wants to torture them for eternity for provoking me, then it's obviously the right thing that they are tortured).
Unfortunately, most of the photos are permanently fixed to the walls, so they don't ever get put away (I broke one on purpose once and it was replaced with another naked pic almost straight away). I'm not sure if this qualifies as pornography, but if I could find a quote about porn in the Bible I would definitely use it against my parents. I don't want to go into too much detail, but this is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of my parents humiliating me in weird ways (i will just say that, as in the case of laughing at naked pics of me, the focus is often on my genitals, although I don't think it could be classified as sexual abuse because there is never any physical contact).
I think I should probably bypass trying to reason with them altogether and just speak to a pastor, as you recommend. Thanks for the reply  ::smile::

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Re: hatred of parents
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2012, 08:59:39 AM »

Offline TJW

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Re: hatred of parents
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2012, 07:44:24 AM »

Although I don't think speaking to a pastor is wrong, I have found that most of them are pretty ineffectual at situations like this.  They tend to just spout some platitudes and quote some verses while DOING nothing.

I agree that your parents need to be called to account for this.  Yes, it is true, that nudie pictures of babies are thought to be "cute" by many people
and are not considered pornographic.  But your parents need to be made to understand that this is hurting you.  And, I doubt that a pastor is going to
actually do anything about this at all except tell you to "depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled".

Our government, and our police, take a very, very dim view of exposing children in photographs.  I think you should take a picture OF the pictures on your
wall, some which make your house identifiable, and then take the pornographic pictures off the wall and bring them  to the police. 




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Re: hatred of parents
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2012, 07:44:24 AM »

Offline onedayplease

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Re: hatred of parents
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2012, 08:23:10 AM »
One of the reasons I consider myself a Christian is because I get the sense that Jesus didn't like families very much, despite what a lot of other Christians believe. His assertion in Matthew 10:34-35 that he has come to bring a sword rather than peace, and intends to turn sons against fathers and daughters against mothers, resonates with me. Sometimes I imagine Jesus' sword being run through my parents and it gives me comfort.
I'd like to speak to a pastor or any religious authority figure who can tell me how best to put that part of the Bible into action. Obviously I don't think attacking my mum and dad with an actual sword is a good idea (unless it's a foam sword), but I would like to find the strength to stand up to them next time I am sexually humiliated in front of friends or other family members. Speaking to the police might actually work in the case of the photos, but I don't know if the other stuff is against the law (despite it definitely being immoral).
Perhaps by turning me against them, my parents are actually doing the work of the Lord because it makes me turn to Him more than ever for comfort?

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Re: hatred of parents
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2012, 08:23:10 AM »



Offline chosenone

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Re: hatred of parents
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2012, 09:16:30 AM »
How old are you in these pictures?How old are you now? Are you old enough to leave home?
Jesus said that we need to forgive as many times as it takes. That doesnt mean that we cant set boundaries with other people if they are acting badly, but did you know that Jesus asks us to forgive, not for their sakes, but for our sakes, because otherwise is harms us physically emotionally and spiritually?
MY dad was a womaniser who drove my mother to suicide by his last long affair. I had to forgive him and his lady friend(who he later married). 3 members of my family were abused by their father. They too have forgiven and it has made such a difference in their lives.

Of course God loves families. He invented them. The Bible says that He puts the lonely in families. They are there for our good.
If you curse your parents you wont be blessed, simple.This doesnt mean that all families are healthy
of course.
I had a mother in law who tried to destroy my marriage. She was not a nice person. However I never ever would have cursed her, but we are told to bless those who hurt us and persecute us. If we do this then God can change the situation. If we hang onto bitterness and hatred, God cant do anything.

Offline Lavender

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Re: hatred of parents
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2012, 03:26:22 PM »
Hello, onedayplease  -  Why can't we send you a personal message?  I have some questions which I prefer not to ask you publicly.

Blessings

Offline TJW

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Re: hatred of parents
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2012, 11:25:33 PM »
Quote
Perhaps by turning me against them, my parents are actually doing the work of the Lord because it makes me turn to Him more than ever for comfort?

God does not need other people to "do His work".  He has sent His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, and His Holy Spirit, to do that.  People do what they do out of their own will, and out of the will of the Lord as they are able at their current stage of christian development.

That being said, you will never go wrong if you trust and turn to Him.  But your parents are acting out of their own foolish ways and their selfishness.  There is no obedience to God which is driving these actions in them.

It is ok if you don't know what is against the law.  The police do.  They are not going to pursue things which aren't illegal.  If you go to them, they will possibly
send you to a government agency in your state which can help you as well.

Offline onedayplease

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Re: hatred of parents
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2012, 03:58:47 AM »
The pictures are of me when I was a baby/toddler. I am currently 18, so old enough to leave home, but I can't support myself financially. I would like nothing more than to move out and never see my parents again, but no one seems to want to employ me after I was "let go" from my previous job in a grocery store for bursting into tears in front of customers all the time.
All this humiliation could be my parents' way of trying to get rid of me because they're fully aware of the pain it causes me. Sometimes they draw attention to the pictures when people are around and actually point and laugh at how small certain parts of my anatomy are. Maybe this is acceptable in households where everyone shares a twisted sense of humour, but my parents seem to be doing it because they know how upsetting I find it  ::cryingtears::
I can't find the strength to forgive them now because these things keep happening - it's only once everything's stopped that I can take stock of things and decide exactly what it is I have to forgive them for. I would like the Lord to either give me the strength to stand up to them or to take away my sexual feelings (they are at the root of the shame and humiliation - when I was a child, for instance, I didn't feel any shame about being seen naked, so maybe this is what Jesus means in Matthew 18:3 when he says we need to become like little children to enter the kingdom of heaven). Is it possible to be like Adam and Eve before they sinned? If Jesus died for our sins, shouldn't we all be pure like them now?
I'm not sexually active and I don't lust after anyone or anything (animal, vegetable or mineral) and am therefore not going against what is said in Matthew 5:28, but my body is now an adult one and has certain processes and functions that are inescapably sexual (my parents know this and exploit it), so I'm forced to take desperate measures sometimes to stop my body acting against my mind's wishes. I'm sorry to bring this up, particularly in the family section, but i'm talking about "relieving" myself.  ::blushing:: I have started doing this before friends or family members visit the house - I do so to avoid being sexually humiliated later, but I feel like it leaves a bad taste in God's mouth each time I do it. I don't know what to do - is it better to allow my earthly father to humiliate me so that I don't humiliate my heavenly father?
Lavender - my inbox said it was 100% full even though it only contained one message; I've deleted that, so hopefully you can send a message now. If not, you can post here or I could send you my email address.  ::smile::

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Re: hatred of parents
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2012, 03:58:47 AM »

Offline DaveW

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Re: hatred of parents
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2012, 04:57:00 AM »
Wow.  I am so sorry you have had to go thru all that. You have my prayers and support.

As to the "relieving yourself" part, I would be worried if an 18 year old guy who was not sexually active did not have to do that (at least occasionally). As long as you are not fantasizing about having sex I do not see that as sinful. There is a verse in the Psalms that says God is mindful of our frame, that we are made of dust.

Do you live in a small town? 

Offline MeMyself

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Re: hatred of parents
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2012, 07:11:51 AM »
Oh man!  This kind of thing just ticks me off! 

I never understand parents who make sport of how *their* child is made!  If they find issues, they must surly know the issues come from THEM, since its their combined dna that created the child!  ::frustrated::

As for laughing at the size of your boy parts when you were a little guy...thats what little guys parts are supposed to be! LITTLE!  Just like little girls parts are little when they are little!  ::frown:: I am sorry they have chosen to be so insensitive and stupid about this issue that has humiliated you all this time.  I don't blame you for feeling that way.  I still struggle with my form from the things said about me in childhood/early adulthood.

Remember that God knit you together, He says you are fearfully and wonderfully made!

Offline chosenone

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Re: hatred of parents
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2012, 07:36:07 AM »
Oh man!  This kind of thing just ticks me off! 

I never understand parents who make sport of how *their* child is made!  If they find issues, they must surly know the issues come from THEM, since its their combined dna that created the child!  ::frustrated::

As for laughing at the size of your boy parts when you were a little guy...thats what little guys parts are supposed to be! LITTLE!  Just like little girls parts are little when they are little!  ::frown:: I am sorry they have chosen to be so insensitive and stupid about this issue that has humiliated you all this time.  I don't blame you for feeling that way.  I still struggle with my form from the things said about me in childhood/early adulthood.

Remember that God knit you together, He says you are fearfully and wonderfully made!
  Amen.

Is there any one in your family who you could go and live with to get away from this humiliation?Older brothers or sisters, or grandparents or uncles or aunts? If you are a believer there are one year training courses where you work and get trained in different areas of Christian work. I am sure that you could look this up on google or speak to your pastor about this. It would enable you to gain back some self esteem, and get you away from that toxic atmosphere as well. Also it will give you training and skills. Also how about college?

Offline Kindle

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Re: hatred of parents
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2012, 11:24:15 AM »

Eighteen can be a very tough age, even in a more healthy family.  And yes, some parents are quite capable of saboutage when it comes right down to it.  It's your parent's own personal demons.  It's their lack, their wrong and their loss.  On some level, perhaps you can forgive then this even now.  I agree with everyone posting on this.. it will indeed help you to move forward, and away from the hold they and their negative projections have on you. You could even consider it as the first step in your seperation from them. 
I don't think that any one coming from an abusive family ever understands why their parents are the way they are.  All we can do is to live our lives in spite of the abuse and the abusers. Please keep the faith that things will get better.  Look beyond your own biological father to your heavenly one.  He is our true father! Continue to discover who He is without fear. He loves us so much.. a lifetime of experiences has shown me this.  ::smile:: And yes, plan and work for your future.  Things look especially tough right now... it's not the best time as far as economics and opportunity to set out on your own.. but where there is a will there is a way.  There will be rough spots, yes, but God will provide the strength to overcome. Even being in the process..the planning and seeking of opportunities... is  a freeing experience. I do believe you have a much better head on your shoulders than your parents are willing to realize.  Your strength comes from Christ within you...
I pray good things for you come very soon, onedayplease.

Offline Cally

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Re: hatred of parents
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2012, 11:50:59 PM »
One of the reasons I consider myself a Christian is because I get the sense that Jesus didn't like families very much, despite what a lot of other Christians believe. His assertion in Matthew 10:34-35 that he has come to bring a sword rather than peace, and intends to turn sons against fathers and daughters against mothers, resonates with me. Sometimes I imagine Jesus' sword being run through my parents and it gives me comfort.
I'd like to speak to a pastor or any religious authority figure who can tell me how best to put that part of the Bible into action. Obviously I don't think attacking my mum and dad with an actual sword is a good idea (unless it's a foam sword), but I would like to find the strength to stand up to them next time I am sexually humiliated in front of friends or other family members. Speaking to the police might actually work in the case of the photos, but I don't know if the other stuff is against the law (despite it definitely being immoral).
Perhaps by turning me against them, my parents are actually doing the work of the Lord because it makes me turn to Him more than ever for comfort?

I have good news for you good sir: you don't have to "curse" your parents--objectively, they're simply enemies of God.

Your Mother and Father brought you into the world and took care of you when you were vulnerable, and that's nothing to take lightly--they preserved your life like a rescuer.

However, GOD did not make you and bring you into this world to be harmed this way by them! It may be a hard thing to discern, but it doesn't need to be personal: you are simply standing up for what's right by recognizing this and coming to your own defense, as the Lord loves you and someone has contradicted his will. Quite simply, you are faced with unrighteous acts to which we stand opposed whether they pertain to us or not. In a day when people so seldom come to each others' defense, it's a noble thing to stand up for yourself (it's just modern churches' bad habit of standing by and watching all sorts of horrors become of their brothers and sisters).

God, however, is different. He'll make sure they regret their actions. Know that you are loved by God who acts powerfully for the oppressed.

I've been there, in different ways.

It's a hard thing to grasp: forgive them, do not hate, but stand your ground against their ways.

God be with you!

Offline fcadcock

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Re: hatred of parents
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2012, 02:02:27 AM »
Why don't you simply throw the pictures out?  So what if it upsets your mother!!!  If you have expressed to her that it upsets you and she continually points them out to others, it shows that she doesn't care if she upsets you...

You're 18, go join the military, even if it's the coast guard.  They can get you out of your parent's house, pay you to go to school and finish your education, and set you up for a great life where you don't have to ever speak to your parents again unless you choose to.  Also, Afhganistan is beautiful this time of year.  All the snow is melting and there are plenty of bad people starting to pour over the border from Pakistan that need shooting!

(It's important to note that my answer for just about anything someone your age asks is to join the military.  I loved my time there and suggest it to others often.  I probably learned more about life in those few years than I have in all of my other years combined.)