Do they make kids like that? I know I don't have any.
I have one. Melissa. 16 years old. Spanked once as a toddler. Only once. A word to her is very sufficient. I could count on one hand the times that she hasn't had alacrity. It's just crazy. But really, really nice.
Rachel, 14, has been spanked about 4 or 5 times max. No bad attitudes there, either. Just today I had to tell her twice to do something, as she had forgotten to do it the first time, and I was shocked. My wife looked at me, and was equally surprised. Haven't seen her pout since she was about 4 or 5.
Stephen, 11, is very much just like Rachel.
Funny thing is, Donald, 18, is the one that needs to be told a number of times about almost everything. They are far from perfect. We are constantly training and teaching and correcting little things here and there.
Bad attitudes do not exist except in our youngest, Nathan, who is 2.5 years old. Just the other day I had the talk with my wife about her not disciplining him as she should, and he was a brat, throwing fits, and finally she responded in sincerity and purity, and changed. The next day, she was a different woman, like she had been with the first 4 kids. In the three days since that talk, everyone has seen the difference in Nathan. He hasn't thrown a fit at all today. And has been happy almost the whole time.
Joseph, our Downs, 9, is totally different. He hasn't been obeying well, either, but not throwing fits like Nathan was. My wife changed, and Joseph has been very prompt and happy in obeying for two days now -- it only took him one day to change, and completely so. It's just amazing.
I can say before God, that I've only once seen a child of mine be angry. One child. One time.
Maybe God has gifted me for raising kids. My wife says so, but I don't see it. I see it as God doing all of it. I am nothing: if gifted in it, then that gift is from God. Totally. So no matter how you cut it, I'm nothing.
They never fight. Arguments? You'll look a long, long time to see even a mild one.
People constantly state how incredible our kids are. God has done it. He had to, for my wife and I had much, much strife in our marriage for many years. God did it all in our kids. Fortunately! He did it despite us.
God has blessed us with incredible children. It's almost too good to be true.
I'm glad that we labor over little things. Very glad.
But we sure are happy that they're ours!
We were up until after 10 tonight, playing fast UNO, and laughing so hard it hurt. We have lots of fun together. Our weekends are basically playing games and having lots of fun together. The game really doesn't matter: we have a ton of fun that really has nothing to do with the game that we're playing -- we are having fun together, because of who are are with each other. We're just basically looking for any excuse to have more fun together. I'm so blessed, it's most amazing.
Just this afternoon we had a mom come and ask us how to discipline children to have them so "perfect". Our response? Instant discipline, steady and constant, given with instruction as to the heart and attitudes, and why it was given, and what it is to facilitate in them. And our discipline is always temporary, no matter the form, for when the child shows acceptable progress, the discipline is immediately removed. We never punish, but always discipline. They don't have to exhibit total victory -- just heart change and progress, and it is immediately lifted. If it isn't lifted immediately, then it has just become thoroughly counterproductive in them, and it will be strained against. And because we are the ones that initiated it, they will then strain against us. We are to guide the heart and mind: we cannot change it or manipulate it or break it without destroying it. God is to break the spirit, and He will build it completely new in Him. We just faciliitate their openness to that from Him.
They see their Dad's heart break as he reads God's word and the tears roll down his cheeks. They see Dad's eyes light up when he speaks of sharing Christ with the lost: his excitement is contagious. They see Dad's anger against sin, and they have a holy fear of God and want no part of sinning. They see God speak and work through their Dad all the time, and they long to have the same thing themselves with God. And God is starting to do it in the oldest. It just blows me away to see him witnessing on the internet as he plays games. Just incredible. They receive constant tenderness, coupled with unwavering firmness against sin. And they love it all. They hear their Dad's disgust with those who profess, but live in sin and insist on negating the word of God. They see their Dad's endless gentleness with the new and young in Christ, and total lack of patience with those who ought to be mature in Him.
They see their Mom love their Dad, and support him and serve him. They see the love and tenderness that Dad constantly showers on their Mom. They see the joy of their Mom as she walks in inner beauty that the women of old had, calling their husband "Lord". They see Mom light up when Dad gets home, and it's contagious: the kids rush out the door to greet their Dad. My 18 year old son still calls me daddy -- in front of everyone, even at the college. I guess that there's no stiffling love and contentment and joy, is there?
They see day spend up to 8 hours a day in the Word, simply because of love for God and His word: he hungers and thirst for it, like the Psalmist wrote. So they each have an Ipod, and they listen to the Word while they do chores or their evening janitorial contract. And they listen to it during quiet time. And they will get up and read the word in the morning at 6, even if Dad and Momd sleep in, and then they'll speak of what they read and how it was cool.
They complain when we quite reading after a few chapters in Leviticus, because it just so exciting to them. It was a serious bore and very unpleasant to me when I was growing up. What a difference the heart of the parents makes! The kids catch what the parents have, it seems. Or as the adage goes, "the fruit falls close to the tree".
How will they turn out in adulthood? God only knows. But they are His, not mine. I'm just the tutor until they walk fully with the Teacher Himself, showing that they need Him completely. What they will each do with that, I don't know. It will break my heart if they don't walk with God, but I'm not naive enough to assume that any of them will. As God said in Isaiah about the children of Israel, that He'd been the perfect father, and that He had done all that was possible to do, and yet they still rebelled against Him. And I've made lost of mistakes with them, and given numerous apologies to them. Why God has done such a wonderful thing in my children, I probably will never know.
But my wife and I are very, very thankful for what He has done. It's amazing to see. To God alone be the glory!
Joseph, the Down's, I'm sure has been given just so that we wouldn't think that parenting is a breeze. My wife and I actually believe this. And yes, now you all know beyond a doubt that I'm a wacko and ungodly. I'm sure that some don't believe what I'm posting here. O well.
A few years ago I did a CD audio set on parenting, but I no longer give it out. Why? Parenting is based solely upon the heart/soul state of the parent and that is conveyed to the child. It is an unpleasant message that few want to hear. So it collects dust. It's much more palatable to accept 5 steps or 7 principles or whatever, for having "good" kids. Or as Bill Gothard states, we must do 27 things for them to turn out godly. Sorry, suckers, if you mess up on one of them: there's no guarantee then. What rubbish! Kind of funny how no one has been able to keep even ten commandments without their soul first being born of God, but we can believe that we need to do 27 things, count that, 27 of them for our kids to turn out for God. All 27 of them. It's just amazing the rubbish that people will believe.
Funny thing is, the fat lady that stayed with us had her baby two weeks ago, and I had sat down with her a month ago and told her that she was fat, lazy, a slob, and so selfish and arrogant and wicked. That she needed to repent. And I told her this for half an hour.
She was raised in a "Christian" family. Her dad is still a pastor. She's 30. Ya know what? A few days after that, she started getting up and having breakfast with us at 6 AM, and participating in the bible reading. She started asking questions like, "How do I repent? I've tried, and nothing seems to work?" The state shipped her back to Oregon. Her parole officer will not let her leave the state -- and only if she comes to live with us again. They're working on the paper work. She doesn't want to live anywhere but with us. She is working on getting the state to grant us a form of guardianship over her (she's a mental patient), so that she can live with us and learn more about God. Cool.
She has stated that we are the only people that have ever shown true love for her.
She also stated that she is not willing to let her baby be adopted by anyone but us. And if we did that, she'd be willing to live somewhere else, but could we teach her about God? She was also demon possessed when she came here. This stuff is "chump change" for God -- it's a piece of cake! We are just used by Him to prompt a little bit of it in others. What a privilege!
God does the work. He's been working since the very beginning, just as Christ stated. It's amazing to see. God alone is worthy of glory and honor and praise, for it is all of Him.
Some mock us for these things, and say that we are ungodly, or that we are off the deep end. Or that I'm out of touch and on a rampage. We've heard it all before I ever got on this forum. Nothing new here.
I will receive correction from others. I've needed it. I'm still growing in Christ Jesus my Lord and Savior, learning more and more how to more properly wield this incredible, uncontainable Spirit that I've recieved without measure -- for the glory of God amongst a wicked and perverse generation in the church. Like everything else, one needs to grow into maturity in this, too.
"By their fruits you shall know them."
The fruits condemn many. If I were to state as Paul did, "follow my example in these things", I'd be written off completely, if I haven't been already by most here. I don't have an "apostle's badge". Whatever that is. I'm "not inspired". I hate sin and get angry over it and confront people over it. I mock them. I chide them. I encourage some. I thank some. I rebuke some. I exhort some. I spur others. I sharply rebuke others. Even by name. And I use scriture, too.
I am taught by others. Some threads I really enjoy reading and not posting at all, but learning from others. When learning, keep the mouth shut so that the eyes and ears and mind will be open, was what I was taught as a kid.
"By their fruits you shall know them." As Paul stated, I'm not boasting, but I'm forced to present some of the things in my life for others to see that God does lead me, and use me, for many in life to see. And just like for Paul, why must this be done? I'm discredited by what I write against sin and the sinners who commit the sin. My wrtings are harsh they say. Yes, they are. But in person I come accross as weak, they say. Some have even stated this to my face. Kind of funny, but that was said about someone else. A guy in the NT. And like him, in my defense, I've been forced into exhibiting cleary the things in my life as vindication.
But now I've been preaching and "railing" yet again. Sorry. I can't help it, I guess.
And Phoebe, if you thought that your post would create "problems" or show a problem with the main of the threads which speak of spanking and corporeal discipline, or give grounds for reconsidering or accepting your position, you were very mistaken. It must be scripturally based. It wasn't. Hypothetical stuff is for the birds. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin is entirely useless. Your "question" was of the same caliber. Or arguing for the sake of arguing is of no benefit to anyone, either.
For one who is so adamant in their beliefs, I would expect a little more substance. Scritpure would suffice.