Spank Me Please Mommy and Daddy!

[chosenone]

Rod


Strong's Hebrew Definition for # 07626



07626   //  jbv  //  shebet   //  shay'-bet  // 

from an unused root probably meaning to branch off; TWOT - 2314a; n m

AV - tribe 140, rod 34, sceptre 10, staff 2, misc 4; 190

1) rod, staff, branch, offshoot, club, sceptre, tribe
1a) rod, staff
1b) shaft (of spear, dart)
1c) club (of shepherd's implement)
1d) truncheon, sceptre (mark of authority)
1e) clan, tribe

Thanks bemark, you beat me to doing this, it could put a whole new meaning on the word rod as used in the Bible especially with 1d the mark of authority. It could well mean that we are to use our authority to discipline our children and not an actual rod at all.To me this would flow much more with the character of God as revealed in Christ. God treats us with loving firmness and patience, not in a threatening, way at all. Souldnt we treat our children in the way that God treats us?

I really think that this quote of spare the rod etc has been used over the centuries to advocate beating of children in many cases.The same as the submission of wives has been used to make them a sort of slave when it was never meant to mean that.

I know someone (a Christian) whose wife made him hit his kids with some sort of fairly light wooden implement (she was very very bossy and domineering) and she did it also, and he hated doing it. Now his kids are adults they are quite rebellious, and he nows says with hindsight and having seen how many other methods there are to discipline kids that he wished he had never done it and it wasnt neccessary.

[kensington]

Yeah... well, I have a sister who NEVER spanked her child when he was growing up, they reasoned with him, and talked to him, and gave him time outs... they did all the right things according to your rule book... and He is doing 16 years in the Tennesee State Pen.  So.... Blah, Blah, Blah...

I raised 7 kids...  I used spanking as a form (one form) of discipline for deliberate disobedience... I spanked all of my kids,  and My son has his masters in Med. Technology and runs a lab in a Hospital. My Girl is a marketing exec for a large company... my other son is a hard working dad of 3 boys who will be spanked if they don't mind, my next son is a Marine honorable serving His country, my next son is away at his first year of College... doing very well after playing 4 years of Football, (Ranked 1st in the region and 6th Longsnapper in the country)  and being a Christian leader in his school government.  and the team, respected and missed by peers and teachers.... studying Criminal law.  My next son is a Junior in high school who who also is a leader in STUCO and took 3rd as MR PHS..   excels at his job and is beloved by his friends and their parents for his quick wit and good manners.  My next son, is an outspoken evangelist for His school and friends at the age of 15, and he tested in the top 1% of kids across the US last year...

So....  I think I'll land my vote on the side of "flog em daily, whether they need it or not!"

The thing is about your stories and experiences... you are always going to run into someone has experienced more, seen more and has just as good or better evidence than you.  Like me!  Peace.  

[Bon Voyage]

The proverbs are there as instruction and to guide us in all things concerning God and life.

If you cannot trust the Proverbs, then you certainly can't trust some "Child care professional" who got their education at some liberal college that probably never mentioned a Holy and righteous God to them in the FOUR years they learned to care for the child that GOD GAVE TO YOU to raise.

Putting the responsibility of "experience" and "guidance" for our children's future and eternity on to someone we don't know, educated by someone we never met, so that we can take our hands off of what God gave us to to do is very irresponsible.

I had a respected, published Dr tell me once... "No one is more of an expert with your child than you"...  which says it all for me.  Child care people don't tell me how to raise my child, I tell them.

And if a spanking is violence in your home, then you have no business spanking your child, you need to realize that you did not take GOD'S FULL counsel into consideration and go back to the drawing board. 

The "ROD" ...   was not the STAFF or LARGE STICK that you spank with.. it was as a switch... a reed or stalk of growth by the side of the river...    And I know from experience as a child, a rod or switch on the buttock of a kid with pants on, will make them jump... it's not abuse.   It stings...  but not nearly as much as the sting of spiritual death will should you neglect to be the parent that God has called you to be in life.  People need to grow up. 

A few years ago... We had a great uproar about the American kid who was getting spanked in Singapore for his crimes...  Hey...  if you go to Singapore where they cane you, you don't need a gun to walk the streets at night.  The parental respect is off the charts.  Just a thought.

The fact that a Doctor told you that no one is more of an expert on your child than you is true to a point, but there still are many terrible parents out there who are definately not experts on how to raise their children, and are inconsistant, hit them for every little tiny thing, and their children are still badly behaved.In my experience, many kids whose parents inflict corporal punishment on them, grow up resentful and angry.Kids who are hot a lot, often tend to hit other children.
The Bible tells us to discipline our children, but if we cant think of the many ways to do this without hitting/beating them then it dosnt say much for us. Consistent, firm, loving discipline with boundaries set doesnt need to involve hitting.if you can do this without hitting, then why hit them? There are so many other ways.
As for the word 'rod' there are several meanings/translations for the word rod in the Bible, and I will post them when I have them to hand.I stil come back to the use and meaning of the word rod in the 23rd psalm, it was never meant for hittng but for guiding and leading.

I have friends who never hit their children and they grew up to be polite really nice and well bahaved kids. Others kids whose parents hit/smacked them a lot were naughtly and badly behaved.So what does this say? It often doesnt work.
Those of you who say smacking is ok, would you use a belt, a cane or something else? My husbands mum(a Christian) used to beat him with the buckle end of a belt and to think of it makes me cringe.

 

I know many kids who receive talking to's who end up as losers growing up, and far more who grow up as functioning well rounded adults who were spanked.  My dad used a belt, I turned out fine. 

[chosenone]

Yeah... well, I have a sister who NEVER spanked her child when he was growing up, they reasoned with him, and talked to him, and gave him time outs... they did all the right things according to your rule book... and He is doing 16 years in the Tennesee State Pen.  So.... Blah, Blah, Blah...

I raised 7 kids...  I used spanking as a form (one form) of discipline for deliberate disobedience... I spanked all of my kids,  and My son has his masters in Med. Technology and runs a lab in a Hospital. My Girl is a marketing exec for a large company... my other son is a hard working dad of 3 boys who will be spanked if they don't mind, my next son is a Marine honorable serving His country, my next son is away at his first year of College... doing very well after playing 4 years of Football, (Ranked 1st in the region and 6th Longsnapper in the country)  and being a Christian leader in his school government.  and the team, respected and missed by peers and teachers.... studying Criminal law.  My next son is a Junior in high school who who also is a leader in STUCO and took 3rd as MR PHS..   excels at his job and is beloved by his friends and their parents for his quick wit and good manners.  My next son, is an outspoken evangelist for His school and friends at the age of 15, and he tested in the top 1% of kids across the US last year...

So....  I think I'll land my vote on the side of "flog em daily, whether they need it or not!"

The thing is about your stories and experiences... you are always going to run into someone has experienced more, seen more and has just as good or better evidence than you.  Like me!  Peace.  

Well done with your children, but of course you dont know if they would have turned out as well if you hadnt spanked them.
Cant agree that you have seen more, experienced more etc than me however. Believe me, I have seen A LOT and experienced A LOT!
My kids are also doing really well and I wasnt even a christian when  they were very small, but firm and loving discipline and clear boundaries is what is needed in my opinion, it doesnt need to be physical.

Also I will ask you as well, why do you smack and not use the rod if that is what you all say the Bible says? I cant understand that.

[Bon Voyage]

The modern equivilant of a rod is a metal bar.  Are you seriously going to advocate hitting a child with something like this?  I will tell you now, if I find out anyone is using a rod to hit a child with, they had better hope the police get there before I do.

love,

Sopranette

  Did you ever read the Psalms where David wrote:  "Thy rod and they staff, they comfort me."?  The rod and staff were used to give direction, to pull the lambs back from danger.  They were used to beat predators...
Shepherds did not use the rod to beat their sheep.

Thank you SO MUCH for posting this, I was going to post this very same thing. They didnt hit their sheep, only used the rod to guide them if they were going off track. They didnt beat them, so how come we are suppose to beat/hit our kids?

Beating and spanking are different.  Like I said before, if you want to go by Super Nanny, by all means go ahead.  I believe that the bible speaks of physical discipline and while my kids are young, I will use it.

Smacking a child is the same as hitting a child. Where do you draw the line? How many times are you allowed to hit them.Are you 'Biblically' allowed to hit several times? Are you allowed to use a rod, a cane, a belt?
Gary, if you are going to obey the Bible as you see it, then you should be using a rod to hit your children and not a hand. What many seem to forget is that NO WHERE in the Bible as far as I can see, does it mention using a hand to hit a child, it only mentions a rod, so why do you smack them?

I dont know how you can justify hitting anyone, child or adult, and where does physical abuse begin and end?. If you hit/smacked your wife, she would be within her rights to call the police. If you hit someone in the street, you could be arrested for assult. So how come it is OK to hit your children, and how come you dont use a rod if you think the Bible says you should and not your hand?   

Physical abuse starts with physical abuse.  Discipline is an entirely different matter.  You can cling to the wisdom of man if you like, I will do as I believe God's Word shows.

If the definition of a rod is a switch (small piece of timber), yep, have had that one again.

But I thought Proverbs were wise sayings and not commandments.  I use what works and follow the spirit of the wise saying.

[chosenone]

The proverbs are there as instruction and to guide us in all things concerning God and life.

If you cannot trust the Proverbs, then you certainly can't trust some "Child care professional" who got their education at some liberal college that probably never mentioned a Holy and righteous God to them in the FOUR years they learned to care for the child that GOD GAVE TO YOU to raise.

Putting the responsibility of "experience" and "guidance" for our children's future and eternity on to someone we don't know, educated by someone we never met, so that we can take our hands off of what God gave us to to do is very irresponsible.

I had a respected, published Dr tell me once... "No one is more of an expert with your child than you"...  which says it all for me.  Child care people don't tell me how to raise my child, I tell them.

And if a spanking is violence in your home, then you have no business spanking your child, you need to realize that you did not take GOD'S FULL counsel into consideration and go back to the drawing board. 

The "ROD" ...   was not the STAFF or LARGE STICK that you spank with.. it was as a switch... a reed or stalk of growth by the side of the river...    And I know from experience as a child, a rod or switch on the buttock of a kid with pants on, will make them jump... it's not abuse.   It stings...  but not nearly as much as the sting of spiritual death will should you neglect to be the parent that God has called you to be in life.  People need to grow up. 

A few years ago... We had a great uproar about the American kid who was getting spanked in Singapore for his crimes...  Hey...  if you go to Singapore where they cane you, you don't need a gun to walk the streets at night.  The parental respect is off the charts.  Just a thought.

The fact that a Doctor told you that no one is more of an expert on your child than you is true to a point, but there still are many terrible parents out there who are definately not experts on how to raise their children, and are inconsistant, hit them for every little tiny thing, and their children are still badly behaved.In my experience, many kids whose parents inflict corporal punishment on them, grow up resentful and angry.Kids who are hot a lot, often tend to hit other children.
The Bible tells us to discipline our children, but if we cant think of the many ways to do this without hitting/beating them then it dosnt say much for us. Consistent, firm, loving discipline with boundaries set doesnt need to involve hitting.if you can do this without hitting, then why hit them? There are so many other ways.
As for the word 'rod' there are several meanings/translations for the word rod in the Bible, and I will post them when I have them to hand.I stil come back to the use and meaning of the word rod in the 23rd psalm, it was never meant for hittng but for guiding and leading.

I have friends who never hit their children and they grew up to be polite really nice and well bahaved kids. Others kids whose parents hit/smacked them a lot were naughtly and badly behaved.So what does this say? It often doesnt work.
Those of you who say smacking is ok, would you use a belt, a cane or something else? My husbands mum(a Christian) used to beat him with the buckle end of a belt and to think of it makes me cringe.

 

I know many kids who receive talking to's who end up as losers growing up, and far more who grow up as functioning well rounded adults who were spanked.  My dad used a belt, I turned out fine. 

You always hear this ie "well my dad gave me the belt and it never did me any harm" Its often said by people who you can tell were harmed by beatings of this type but cant see it.
As for saying that those who were spanked being more well rounded people, this isnt my experience, in fact the opposite.   

[Bon Voyage]

The proverbs are there as instruction and to guide us in all things concerning God and life.

If you cannot trust the Proverbs, then you certainly can't trust some "Child care professional" who got their education at some liberal college that probably never mentioned a Holy and righteous God to them in the FOUR years they learned to care for the child that GOD GAVE TO YOU to raise.

Putting the responsibility of "experience" and "guidance" for our children's future and eternity on to someone we don't know, educated by someone we never met, so that we can take our hands off of what God gave us to to do is very irresponsible.

I had a respected, published Dr tell me once... "No one is more of an expert with your child than you"...  which says it all for me.  Child care people don't tell me how to raise my child, I tell them.

And if a spanking is violence in your home, then you have no business spanking your child, you need to realize that you did not take GOD'S FULL counsel into consideration and go back to the drawing board. 

The "ROD" ...   was not the STAFF or LARGE STICK that you spank with.. it was as a switch... a reed or stalk of growth by the side of the river...    And I know from experience as a child, a rod or switch on the buttock of a kid with pants on, will make them jump... it's not abuse.   It stings...  but not nearly as much as the sting of spiritual death will should you neglect to be the parent that God has called you to be in life.  People need to grow up. 

A few years ago... We had a great uproar about the American kid who was getting spanked in Singapore for his crimes...  Hey...  if you go to Singapore where they cane you, you don't need a gun to walk the streets at night.  The parental respect is off the charts.  Just a thought.

The fact that a Doctor told you that no one is more of an expert on your child than you is true to a point, but there still are many terrible parents out there who are definately not experts on how to raise their children, and are inconsistant, hit them for every little tiny thing, and their children are still badly behaved.In my experience, many kids whose parents inflict corporal punishment on them, grow up resentful and angry.Kids who are hot a lot, often tend to hit other children.
The Bible tells us to discipline our children, but if we cant think of the many ways to do this without hitting/beating them then it dosnt say much for us. Consistent, firm, loving discipline with boundaries set doesnt need to involve hitting.if you can do this without hitting, then why hit them? There are so many other ways.
As for the word 'rod' there are several meanings/translations for the word rod in the Bible, and I will post them when I have them to hand.I stil come back to the use and meaning of the word rod in the 23rd psalm, it was never meant for hittng but for guiding and leading.

I have friends who never hit their children and they grew up to be polite really nice and well bahaved kids. Others kids whose parents hit/smacked them a lot were naughtly and badly behaved.So what does this say? It often doesnt work.
Those of you who say smacking is ok, would you use a belt, a cane or something else? My husbands mum(a Christian) used to beat him with the buckle end of a belt and to think of it makes me cringe.

 

I know many kids who receive talking to's who end up as losers growing up, and far more who grow up as functioning well rounded adults who were spanked.  My dad used a belt, I turned out fine. 

You always hear this ie "well my dad gave me the belt and it never did me any harm" Its often said by people who you can tell were harmed by beatings of this type but cant see it.
As for saying that those who were spanked being more well rounded people, this isnt my experience, in fact the opposite.   

My experience is different than yours by far.  And you "always" nothing.  No one "always" and "nevers."

[chosenone]

Well, we will have to agree to differ then on this one. The Spirit of God to me is against fear,(apart from appropriate Godly fear of his majesty) which is basically what hitting produces, It make the child obey out of fear of punishment, and not because they
are doing what is right.
Why use hitting if other things work? I cant understand that at all.
My kids are all adults now, and lovely young people, so you really dont need to hit them to produce kind caring citizens. One is just going to a christian ministry to study full time for a year. I only say this to show that smacking or hitting isnt vital to a childs well being or future Christian walk.

[kensington]

Yeah... well, I have a sister who NEVER spanked her child when he was growing up, they reasoned with him, and talked to him, and gave him time outs... they did all the right things according to your rule book... and He is doing 16 years in the Tennesee State Pen.  So.... Blah, Blah, Blah...

I raised 7 kids...  I used spanking as a form (one form) of discipline for deliberate disobedience... I spanked all of my kids,  and My son has his masters in Med. Technology and runs a lab in a Hospital. My Girl is a marketing exec for a large company... my other son is a hard working dad of 3 boys who will be spanked if they don't mind, my next son is a Marine honorable serving His country, my next son is away at his first year of College... doing very well after playing 4 years of Football, (Ranked 1st in the region and 6th Longsnapper in the country)  and being a Christian leader in his school government.  and the team, respected and missed by peers and teachers.... studying Criminal law.  My next son is a Junior in high school who who also is a leader in STUCO and took 3rd as MR PHS..   excels at his job and is beloved by his friends and their parents for his quick wit and good manners.  My next son, is an outspoken evangelist for His school and friends at the age of 15, and he tested in the top 1% of kids across the US last year...

So....  I think I'll land my vote on the side of "flog em daily, whether they need it or not!"

The thing is about your stories and experiences... you are always going to run into someone has experienced more, seen more and has just as good or better evidence than you.  Like me!  Peace.  

Well done with your children, but of course you dont know if they would have turned out as well if you hadnt spanked them.
Cant agree that you have seen more, experienced more etc than me however. Believe me, I have seen A LOT and experienced A LOT!
My kids are also doing really well and I wasnt even a christian when  they were very small, but firm and loving discipline and clear boundaries is what is needed in my opinion, it doesnt need to be physical.

Also I will ask you as well, why do you smack and not use the rod if that is what you all say the Bible says? I cant understand that.

I was not saved when my kids were small either...  Not at all...  and I don't "SMACK" my kids... I spanked them.  I used a belt, or a paddle.  You use terms like "abuse"... "smack" ... to make it sound like abuse when it is and was not. I didn't just hit my kids or whale on them at a whim...  We talked to them, we explained to them why we believed what we believed, our responsibility to God as their parent, how serious we took that role and then we spanked them for deliberate disobedience...

Why DO YOU try to make those who consider spanking... "NOT SMACKING" or "BEATING" or Abusing suitable for training a child in the way he should go.... appear as abusers?  Is it to excuse your lazy attitude towards your own responsibility in raising your own children?  Don't accuse me of smacking my child again... or abuse. 

You have turned discussing into verbal attacking and false accusations....  You implied Gary lied when He said his dad did him no harm by spanking.  It often happens this way... some one thinks the way the do it is the ONLY way to do it, so the rest of us must be jacked up.  PS.... I would use a switch also if I did not have a belt or a paddle, I'm not hurting my hand trying to spank the bottom of a disobedient child by hitting his jeans...   

You say your way is the way... but I gave an example of someone who used your way, and her son is in prison... and then you say my kids are OK in your opinion BUT I don't know if it was due to discipline...  Which leads me to believe, if your kids are OK as you portray.... you do not know that it is solely because you omitted spanking either...   You can't.   Your claim is just that... a claim, you have no proof. 

[bemark]

I was disciplined in a Godly way by my father     who spanked me with his hand    wood and also a jug cord

Always on the bottom and never over the top    The reason he used the jug cord was because we used to throw the other away

Really he was a big softy    and still is  you can hit and then you can hit    if you know what I mean


We used to have the cane at school   I got it maybe 2 or 3 times
Then it was debolished    and then anarchy took over
Then the government passed the anti smacking bill through parlament      against the majority rule of the country   really a demonic plan to set children against parents and vice versa

Its witchcraft in action and normally those who vote for it have a new age agenda

Gods ways are not always our ways     but they are better

[chosenone]

Yeah... well, I have a sister who NEVER spanked her child when he was growing up, they reasoned with him, and talked to him, and gave him time outs... they did all the right things according to your rule book... and He is doing 16 years in the Tennesee State Pen.  So.... Blah, Blah, Blah...

I raised 7 kids...  I used spanking as a form (one form) of discipline for deliberate disobedience... I spanked all of my kids,  and My son has his masters in Med. Technology and runs a lab in a Hospital. My Girl is a marketing exec for a large company... my other son is a hard working dad of 3 boys who will be spanked if they don't mind, my next son is a Marine honorable serving His country, my next son is away at his first year of College... doing very well after playing 4 years of Football, (Ranked 1st in the region and 6th Longsnapper in the country)  and being a Christian leader in his school government.  and the team, respected and missed by peers and teachers.... studying Criminal law.  My next son is a Junior in high school who who also is a leader in STUCO and took 3rd as MR PHS..   excels at his job and is beloved by his friends and their parents for his quick wit and good manners.  My next son, is an outspoken evangelist for His school and friends at the age of 15, and he tested in the top 1% of kids across the US last year...

So....  I think I'll land my vote on the side of "flog em daily, whether they need it or not!"

The thing is about your stories and experiences... you are always going to run into someone has experienced more, seen more and has just as good or better evidence than you.  Like me!  Peace.  

Well done with your children, but of course you dont know if they would have turned out as well if you hadnt spanked them.
Cant agree that you have seen more, experienced more etc than me however. Believe me, I have seen A LOT and experienced A LOT!
My kids are also doing really well and I wasnt even a christian when  they were very small, but firm and loving discipline and clear boundaries is what is needed in my opinion, it doesnt need to be physical.

Also I will ask you as well, why do you smack and not use the rod if that is what you all say the Bible says? I cant understand that.

I was not saved when my kids were small either...  Not at all...  and I don't "SMACK" my kids... I spanked them.  I used a belt, or a paddle.  You use terms like "abuse"... "smack" ... to make it sound like abuse when it is and was not. I didn't just hit my kids or whale on them at a whim...  We talked to them, we explained to them why we believed what we believed, our responsibility to God as their parent, how serious we took that role and then we spanked them for deliberate disobedience...

Why DO YOU try to make those who consider spanking... "NOT SMACKING" or "BEATING" or Abusing suitable for training a child in the way he should go.... appear as abusers?  Is it to excuse your lazy attitude towards your own responsibility in raising your own children?  Don't accuse me of smacking my child again... or abuse. 

You have turned discussing into verbal attacking and false accusations....  You implied Gary lied when He said his dad did him no harm by spanking.  It often happens this way... some one thinks the way the do it is the ONLY way to do it, so the rest of us must be jacked up.  PS.... I would use a switch also if I did not have a belt or a paddle, I'm not hurting my hand trying to spank the bottom of a disobedient child by hitting his jeans...   

You say your way is the way... but I gave an example of someone who used your way, and her son is in prison... and then you say my kids are OK in your opinion BUT I don't know if it was due to discipline...  Which leads me to believe, if your kids are OK as you portray.... you do not know that it is solely because you omitted spanking either...   You can't.   Your claim is just that... a claim, you have no proof. 

I'm sorry of I annoyed you, but in my opinion using a belt, stick or anything to repeatedly hit their children is just plain wrong.You call hitting/beating  them in this way spanking so as to make it sound more palatable.

It isnt me who has always said how lovely and well behaved my kids are. it was always other people. You also accuse me of having a lazy attitude towards bring my children up, which is totally and utterly wrong, They had a loving firm upbringing and they had plenty of love and knew and were taught right from wrong. I was quite strict with them in many ways such as what I allowed them to watch on tele or on films. They are polite and well behaved to others and friendly young adults.
This isnt because they has the very occasional smack, my youngest for example probably got smacked no more than 4 or 5 times in her entire life, no it was discilpine done consistently day to day,and they didnt need to be spanked, smacked or hit or whatever else you like to call it.
Its a good job that you dont live in the uk, you would may well have been arrested and charged for what you did to your children. Smacking isnt against the law here but hitting with belts, canes would be seen as abuse, and in my opinion rightly so. In my opinion it just isnt neccessary, so why do some continue to do it?   Think about it, there are so many other ways that dont involve physical violence.

[Bon Voyage]

Yeah... well, I have a sister who NEVER spanked her child when he was growing up, they reasoned with him, and talked to him, and gave him time outs... they did all the right things according to your rule book... and He is doing 16 years in the Tennesee State Pen.  So.... Blah, Blah, Blah...

I raised 7 kids...   I used spanking as a form (one form) of discipline for deliberate disobedience... I spanked all of my kids,  and My son has his masters in Med. Technology and runs a lab in a Hospital. My Girl is a marketing exec for a large company... my other son is a hard working dad of 3 boys who will be spanked if they don't mind, my next son is a Marine honorable serving His country, my next son is away at his first year of College... doing very well after playing 4 years of Football, (Ranked 1st in the region and 6th Longsnapper in the country)  and being a Christian leader in his school government.  and the team, respected and missed by peers and teachers.... studying Criminal law.  My next son is a Junior in high school who who also is a leader in STUCO and took 3rd as MR PHS..   excels at his job and is beloved by his friends and their parents for his quick wit and good manners.  My next son, is an outspoken evangelist for His school and friends at the age of 15, and he tested in the top 1% of kids across the US last year...

So....  I think I'll land my vote on the side of "flog em daily, whether they need it or not!"

The thing is about your stories and experiences... you are always going to run into someone has experienced more, seen more and has just as good or better evidence than you.  Like me!  Peace. 

Well done with your children, but of course you dont know if they would have turned out as well if you hadnt spanked them.
Cant agree that you have seen more, experienced more etc than me however. Believe me, I have seen A LOT and experienced A LOT!
My kids are also doing really well and I wasnt even a christian when  they were very small, but firm and loving discipline and clear boundaries is what is needed in my opinion, it doesnt need to be physical.

Also I will ask you as well, why do you smack and not use the rod if that is what you all say the Bible says? I cant understand that.

I was not saved when my kids were small either...  Not at all...  and I don't "SMACK" my kids... I spanked them.  I used a belt, or a paddle.  You use terms like "abuse"... "smack" ... to make it sound like abuse when it is and was not. I didn't just hit my kids or whale on them at a whim...  We talked to them, we explained to them why we believed what we believed, our responsibility to God as their parent, how serious we took that role and then we spanked them for deliberate disobedience...

Why DO YOU try to make those who consider spanking... "NOT SMACKING" or "BEATING" or Abusing suitable for training a child in the way he should go.... appear as abusers?  Is it to excuse your lazy attitude towards your own responsibility in raising your own children?  Don't accuse me of smacking my child again... or abuse. 

You have turned discussing into verbal attacking and false accusations....  You implied Gary lied when He said his dad did him no harm by spanking.  It often happens this way... some one thinks the way the do it is the ONLY way to do it, so the rest of us must be jacked up.  PS.... I would use a switch also if I did not have a belt or a paddle, I'm not hurting my hand trying to spank the bottom of a disobedient child by hitting his jeans...   

You say your way is the way... but I gave an example of someone who used your way, and her son is in prison... and then you say my kids are OK in your opinion BUT I don't know if it was due to discipline...  Which leads me to believe, if your kids are OK as you portray.... you do not know that it is solely because you omitted spanking either...   You can't.   Your claim is just that... a claim, you have no proof. 

I'm sorry of I annoyed you, but in my opinion using a belt, stick or anything to repeatedly hit their children is just plain wrong.You call hitting/beating  them in this way spanking so as to make it sound more palatable.

It isnt me who has always said how lovely and well behaved my kids are. it was always other people. You also accuse me of having a lazy attitude towards bring my children up, which is totally and utterly wrong, They had a loving firm upbringing and they had plenty of love and knew and were taught right from wrong. I was quite strict with them in many ways such as what I allowed them to watch on tele or on films. They are polite and well behaved to others and friendly young adults.
This isnt because they has the very occasional smack, my youngest for example probably got smacked no more than 4 or 5 times in her entire life, no it was discilpine done consistently day to day,and they didnt need to be spanked, smacked or hit or whatever else you like to call it.
Its a good job that you dont live in the uk, you would may well have been arrested and charged for what you did to your children. Smacking isnt against the law here but hitting with belts, canes would be seen as abuse, and in my opinion rightly so. In my opinion it just isnt neccessary, so why do some continue to do it?   Think about it, there are so many other ways that dont involve physical violence.

You have a right to have any opinion you want, however, your opinion is not biblical, and I believe it is contrary to God's Word.

[kensington]

This isnt because they has the very occasional smack, my youngest for example probably got smacked no more than 4 or 5 times in her entire life, no it was discilpine done consistently day to day,and they didnt need to be spanked, smacked or hit or whatever else you like to call it

WAIT ONE MINUTE... HOLD ON... YOU Sit here post and after post and accuse the rest of us of abuse, of smacking our kids, and claiming how you don't,  didn't, and wouldnt... and your kids turned out so well for it... it JUST PLAIN NOT NEEDED...  and then you speak that your child got SMACKED 4 or 5 times??  What is smacked anyway?  Where you just haul off and hit them without rhyme or reason at the moment?  Careless hitting?  A fast slap in the face? 

That my friend... makes you a hypocrite.   For you do hit your children, you have hit your children... and the rest of us are just fine as parents. 

It's funny too... because my kids were probably spanked less then yours who was smacked 4 or 5 times was!!   

[kensington]

Its a good job that you dont live in the uk, you would may well have been arrested and charged for what you did to your children. Smacking isnt against the law here but hitting with belts, canes would be seen as abuse, and in my opinion rightly so. I

Yeah...  I agree it is a good "thing" I don't live in the UK... considering the many other unGodly things they have embraced over the years.... I would not like it there. 

I agree with Gary, and as you said... "It is your opinion"... that is a personal thing, and it has nothing to do with God or His word to us.  Basically, you follow your own mind, and I choose to follow the word of God. 

[chosenone]

Its a good job that you dont live in the uk, you would may well have been arrested and charged for what you did to your children. Smacking isnt against the law here but hitting with belts, canes would be seen as abuse, and in my opinion rightly so. I

Yeah...  I agree it is a good "thing" I don't live in the UK... considering the many other unGodly things they have embraced over the years.... I would not like it there. 

I agree with Gary, and as you said... "It is your opinion"... that is a personal thing, and it has nothing to do with God or His word to us.  Basically, you follow your own mind, and I choose to follow the word of God. 

The Uk isnt bad, most of our bad things have come from the usa anyway. i love living here, you cant beat it.