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Author Topic: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?  (Read 5470 times)

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Offline Ocean

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Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« on: Thu Jan 01, 2015 - 16:17:03 »
I wanted to start a conversation in some of the threads that appear to be open to inquiry on this particular denomination. But when I did I got a red box informing me that the conversation was more than 120 days old or something. I decided then to start a whole new chapter.

I've been watching the SonLife Broadcasting Network for awhile now. The Swaggart church bunch who are Pentecostal but they say they're not the denominational type they're the scriptural type.

What's the difference? I like their take on the message of the cross, the sin nature and all. It feels right to me. Swaggarts past history isn't a big plus but that's not the point now is it?

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Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« on: Thu Jan 01, 2015 - 16:17:03 »

Offline Ocean

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #1 on: Thu Jan 01, 2015 - 17:33:05 »
Well I can tell why there are a lot of old threads in this forum.  ::crackup::A few views but no replies yet? No Pentecostals here I guess.

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #1 on: Thu Jan 01, 2015 - 17:33:05 »

Offline JB

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #2 on: Thu Jan 01, 2015 - 20:14:22 »
Ocean, I can answer one question, I think, and if I am wrong maybe a Pentecostal will come in and straighten me out. The first paragraph, except Jimmy Swaggart of course, is unfamiliar to me. By the way, were the Bakers Pentecostal? I really don't know. It would be interesting to know as one could see a pattern taking shape if so. Anyway, I think the difference between what they call denominational and Scriptural is that one has been watered down and/or modified by man to please man over the years and the other claims to be totally in line with what they believe Scripture says about things like the gifts of the Holy Spirit and salvation, for example. But again, it is that group's particular interpretation of Scripture because as we know two groups of Christians can both claim to be filled with the the Holy Spirit and yet see Scripture saying something different. That is OK and allowed in the family of Christ. What matters is if each one is believing and doing what they do towards His glory and honor or not or their own. I suggest that you check out all of Ro ch 14 and the first few verses of ch 15 as you delve into this quest. It might be very helpful to have this as background as you sort things out.

Offline Ocean

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #3 on: Thu Jan 01, 2015 - 20:19:37 »
Thank you. I will study Romans 14 and 15 as you suggest.
As pertains to Baker I think he claims to be Pentecostal though I don't think he's much more than a conman exploiting religion and which would make his denominational claims secondary if not irrelevant. Just my opinion of his practices. I happened on him last week while browsing the channels. He's unrecognizable compared to how he looked when he was in his hay day with Tammy Faye.


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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #3 on: Thu Jan 01, 2015 - 20:19:37 »

Offline Charlie24

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #4 on: Thu Jan 01, 2015 - 20:26:44 »
My opinion of Jimmy Swaggart is that he is one of the few men of God.

He is preaching the Gospel my grandparents taught me as a child.

He made a bad mistake back in the 80's but it only proves he's human just as we are.

The man has a true heart for God.

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #4 on: Thu Jan 01, 2015 - 20:26:44 »



Offline Ocean

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #5 on: Thu Jan 01, 2015 - 20:28:58 »
That's what I get when I watch his teaching programs. Not the sermons but the round table discussions on scripture.

Have you read any of his books? I'm looking to, "The Message of the Cross" and "The Sin Nature".

Offline Charlie24

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #6 on: Thu Jan 01, 2015 - 20:34:51 »
That's what I get when I watch his teaching programs. Not the sermons but the round table discussions on scripture.

Have you read any of his books? I'm looking to, "The Message of the Cross" and "The Sin Nature".

I've read, "Paul", "Noah", "David", "Abraham", "The Message of the Cross".

Offline Charlie24

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #7 on: Thu Jan 01, 2015 - 20:38:12 »
I'm not a Pentecostal, but I know the truth of the Gospel when I hear it.

Offline Ocean

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #8 on: Thu Jan 01, 2015 - 20:41:04 »
That's what I get when I watch his teaching programs. Not the sermons but the round table discussions on scripture.

Have you read any of his books? I'm looking to, "The Message of the Cross" and "The Sin Nature".

I've read, "Paul", "Noah", "David", "Abraham", "The Message of the Cross".


Would you share your thoughts on them please?

Offline Charlie24

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #9 on: Thu Jan 01, 2015 - 21:00:34 »
That's what I get when I watch his teaching programs. Not the sermons but the round table discussions on scripture.

Have you read any of his books? I'm looking to, "The Message of the Cross" and "The Sin Nature".

I've read, "Paul", "Noah", "David", "Abraham", "The Message of the Cross".


Would you share your thoughts on them please?


All the books I've read by Jimmy Swaggart have one thing in common. No matter what the subject at hand, he puts you in the middle of it. He challenges you though the word of God. You can't read one of his books without knowing exactly where you stand with God.

Offline Charlie24

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #10 on: Thu Jan 01, 2015 - 21:18:47 »
Just before Christmas, I received 3 commentaries that I had ordered from JSM.

I'm reading them now. Genesis, Romans, and Revelation.

I have several commentaries I've read through the years, most are somewhat difficult to understand unless you have 5 or 6 letters behind your name.

Right off, I noticed his are very understandable. But that's about all I do with spare time , is read.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #11 on: Fri Jan 02, 2015 - 03:18:03 »
Bakker is AoG.  He looks different 'cause he is now 74 - or maybe 75.  Jan 2 is his BD.

Offline Red Baker

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #12 on: Fri Jan 02, 2015 - 04:31:55 »
Bakker is AoG.  He looks different 'cause he is now 74 - or maybe 75.  Jan 2 is his BD.

Both Swaggart and Bakker (no kin to me~except through Adam) have the same gospel and they have proven that they should not be trusted, not so much that they sinned by adultery , but the manner in which they deceived millions of their followers while living a secret life on the side for a few years, not just a one or two times.   Of course Swaggart is much more gifted than Bakker, in every way, which only make him more dangerous to detect.  Their gospel is the same as some on this forum, since they draw their followers from the same source, mainly the charismatics, AOG, etc.  To Swaggart's credit, he does hold to a doctrine that is true that few understand properly and that is that he believes in the Incarnate Sonship of Jesus Christ, and reject the eternal Sonship, which puts him into a very small camp of those who profess the name of Jesus Christ.  I am with him 100% on that truth. By the way, I am just a believer in Jesus Christ, without part of any known organized group~we met in houses to worship.  That's not to say that God does not have children in these modern churches, without question he does, only we are convinced that most have departed from the faith that was once given to the saints, and only a few handful desire truth, and are willing to separate from false brethren, who have only a form, but who in truth deny the power thereof, and the very truth they profess to believe in.
« Last Edit: Fri Jan 02, 2015 - 04:38:29 by Red Baker »

Offline JB

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #13 on: Fri Jan 02, 2015 - 08:35:50 »
Red Baker, I beg to differ with you brother. You also are a member of an organized group. You confessed it when you said that you all hold to a mutually embraced set of ideas and meet together at specific locations which must have been planned, co-ordinated, scheduled, and then attended. I am sure you must have a leader or leaders or it would be absolute chaos without any direction or discipline. So yes, I'd say you are definitely a member of a very organized group, more so than the formal denominations, as meeting locations are numerous and probably vary. Just because a group doesn't take on a formal identity for which they can be held responsible and accountable does not mean that they are not an organized group. It only means that they are hiding from something.
« Last Edit: Fri Jan 02, 2015 - 09:01:05 by JB »

Offline Ocean

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #14 on: Fri Jan 02, 2015 - 11:43:19 »
Thank you all for your heart felt remarks and sharing your experiences. It's so odd that there is One God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, the truth of salvation and eternal life and yet we who are in the faith of Christ seem to not be able to agree on the Lords simple message.
Is that us? The various denominations that have hived it off over the centuries so as to make it seem as if it is their property alone? What?

It's all so confusing. Trying to learn what is the way the truth and the life and reading so many different perspectives on the answer that is in the Bible.

Thank you Charlie for your insight into Pastor Swaggarts books. I've not sought the commentary booklets yet. I'm looking to see if I can get The Message of the Cross, and The Sin Nature via the local library or through an interlibrary loan request. I think it would be great if his church offered his books to a library in his area. That way people around the country could acquire a copy via that method of the interlibrary loan departments at their local libraries.

I don't like to spend money on a book not knowing if it's what I want or is worth the investment. I've given too many books away having gone that route.


Offline Rev

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #15 on: Sat Jan 03, 2015 - 06:37:51 »
many Pentecostals don't watch tv , or use the internet ... so if things are slow . well .
as for tv evangelism , do they want you to buy something ? must you "donate" to get a book ?
im not familiar with swaggart's work since the 80s and I was just a child then .
sounds like he is doing quite well though , evidently he makes a living .

Offline Red Baker

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #16 on: Sat Jan 03, 2015 - 07:02:30 »
You confessed it when you said that you all hold to a mutually embraced set of ideas

I never said that~those are your words not mine. Let us be honest.

Quote
You also are a member of an organized group.

You seem to know more than I do??

Quote
at specific locations which must have been planned, co-ordinated, scheduled, and then attended.

Far from that! 

Quote
I am sure you must have a leader or leaders or it would be absolute chaos without any direction or discipline.

The elders~older men.

Quote
a member of a very organized group, more so than the formal denominations, as meeting locations are numerous and probably vary.


Wrong again.

Quote
Just because a group doesn't take on a formal identity for which they can be held responsible and accountable does not mean that they are not an organized group.

We are by the word of God, thereby, by the God of heaven!

Quote
It only means that they are hiding from something.

That's a very judgmental statement, not to mention~ prideful statement.   And you say that based upon WHAT?

Offline JB

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #17 on: Sat Jan 03, 2015 - 07:32:30 »
Denying a reality won't preclude the consequences thereof.

Offline Red Baker

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #18 on: Sat Jan 03, 2015 - 07:53:30 »
Denying a reality won't preclude the consequences thereof.

What is this suppose to mean?

Offline Ocean

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #19 on: Sat Jan 03, 2015 - 12:29:50 »
many Pentecostals don't watch tv , or use the internet ... so if things are slow . well .
as for tv evangelism , do they want you to buy something ? must you "donate" to get a book ?
im not familiar with swaggart's work since the 80s and I was just a child then .
sounds like he is doing quite well though , evidently he makes a living .

He has a publishing house through his church. I wouldn't expect him to give his books away for free. It's costly to print and he, like any business person, deserves to make a profit.

I remember the scandals of the past but he asked forgiveness and God remembers his sins no more. Why should we then if God doesn't.

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #20 on: Sat Jan 03, 2015 - 13:00:08 »
I wanted to start a conversation in some of the threads that appear to be open to inquiry on this particular denomination. But when I did I got a red box informing me that the conversation was more than 120 days old or something. I decided then to start a whole new chapter.

I've been watching the SonLife Broadcasting Network for awhile now. The Swaggart church bunch who are Pentecostal but they say they're not the denominational type they're the scriptural type.

What's the difference? I like their take on the message of the cross, the sin nature and all. It feels right to me. Swaggarts past history isn't a big plus but that's not the point now is it?

I believe that Jimmy Swaggart was forced to part ways with the Assemblies of God because he would not agree to be under their authority to restore him as a pastor after the things about his association with a prostitute(s) came out.   

Offline Ocean

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #21 on: Sat Jan 03, 2015 - 14:28:17 »
I wanted to start a conversation in some of the threads that appear to be open to inquiry on this particular denomination. But when I did I got a red box informing me that the conversation was more than 120 days old or something. I decided then to start a whole new chapter.

I've been watching the SonLife Broadcasting Network for awhile now. The Swaggart church bunch who are Pentecostal but they say they're not the denominational type they're the scriptural type.

What's the difference? I like their take on the message of the cross, the sin nature and all. It feels right to me. Swaggarts past history isn't a big plus but that's not the point now is it?

I believe that Jimmy Swaggart was forced to part ways with the Assemblies of God because he would not agree to be under their authority to restore him as a pastor after the things about his association with a prostitute(s) came out.

I see. I wasn't aware of his associations at the time of the scandals. I did notice that when they show the archival sermons in that time period he's preaching in a venue that is enormous compared to the church he has now. Back then he drew crowds the likes of what is standard for Joel Osteen in his own church today.




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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #22 on: Sat Jan 03, 2015 - 15:51:07 »
I went to a Pentecostal church once with my soon to be wife at the time. It was so different to my upbringing in a southern baptist church that at first it scared me to death. At first i thought how ridiculous it was and thought "oh my"  how am i going to reconcile this with my future wife?

Well needless to say God has led me thru a great experience since then. I have a fondness for all the Pentecostals out there because I see so much more Spirit in them than in my "stick in the mud" fellow southern baptist ( no offense) - At one time I would have been livid at such a statement ,  but I am baptist and can look back and see the truth in it..

Now I draw the line at some of my  wife's family snake handling church that you might have seen on the geo channel called snake salvation...  ::hiding::

Offline Rev

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #23 on: Sat Jan 03, 2015 - 23:26:39 »
many Pentecostals don't watch tv , or use the internet ... so if things are slow . well .


He has a publishing house through his church. I wouldn't expect him to give his books away for free. It's costly to print and he, like any business person, deserves to make a profit.

I remember the scandals of the past but he asked forgiveness and God remembers his sins no more. Why should we then if God doesn't.
well , and that's my only real rub with clergy in general , is it a job , or a calling ?if its a job 24/7 and your only job , then I can see you drawing a paycheck . expenses and such , but turning a profit from prophet kinda smacks of mammon . im not going to make many friends among clergy for saying that . im not saying don't pay tithe and offering , but those should not equate to a paycheck for a part time minister .when you get to be the size of a mega church , it (almost?) becomes corporate , multi media conglomerates ,the potential for " laying up riches " gets to be astronomical , at what point does excess become ungodly ?
im not saying don't watch any minister that is reciting the word , word for word , if god can speak through a donkey , he can speak through jimmy swaggart . p.s. I don't subscribe to excommunication ,
"let the wheat and tares grow together " ... the spirit is willing , but the flesh is weak , EVERYONE  is under sin , I die DAILY , etc etc ... blessed are the merciful ..etc . I aint holding a grudge . god bless , one love

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #24 on: Mon Jan 05, 2015 - 11:32:36 »

Now I draw the line at some of my  wife's family snake handling church that you might have seen on the geo channel called snake salvation...  ::hiding::
LOL..indeed , im a Pentecostal , and a great lover of biological life , I have had several snakes (constrictors) as pets over the years , even a tarantula and a black widow spider (I DID NOT HANDLE THE BLACK WIDOW:WARNING :DO NOT HANDLE BLACK WIDOWS) ::frown::
but I feel the same about rattlesnakes in church .."thou shalt not tempt the lord thy god "  ::smile::

Offline DaveW

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #25 on: Mon Jan 05, 2015 - 12:14:36 »
I remember the scandals of the past but he asked forgiveness and God remembers his sins no more. Why should we then if God doesn't.

There is a HUGE difference between receiving God's forgiveness and being restored to proper place and function.  That was a process that he repeatedly refused to undergo.

Offline Ocean

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #26 on: Mon Jan 05, 2015 - 13:08:15 »
I've rescued a couple of rattlesnake babies in my yard these last couple years. Took them down to the woods. So cute.
But I'm not of a mind to handle their mama or daddy to see if I'm OK with the lord.

Besides, that's not what the scriptures say in my reading of them. And you are quite right. Tempt not the lord thy God.
A snake handler pastor not long ago, last year maybe 6 months or so? Died on the floor of his church after a bite. He refused his congregants pleas to call 911. Poor soul. He passed telling them that he trusted in the Lord when he should have trusted the Lord helped to inspire anti-venom and 911.  ::frown:: 


Now I draw the line at some of my  wife's family snake handling church that you might have seen on the geo channel called snake salvation...  ::hiding::

LOL..indeed , im a Pentecostal , and a great lover of biological life , I have had several snakes (constrictors) as pets over the years , even a tarantula and a black widow spider (I DID NOT HANDLE THE BLACK WIDOW:WARNING :DO NOT HANDLE BLACK WIDOWS) ::frown::
but I feel the same about rattlesnakes in church .."thou shalt not tempt the lord thy god "  ::smile::

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #27 on: Mon Jan 05, 2015 - 23:06:11 »
agreed ocean , my father said it best "pray on the way " .... to the hospital.

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #28 on: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 12:03:39 »
agreed ocean , my father said it best "pray on the way " .... to the hospital.
Wise man.  ::smile:: Yes indeed.
There's a firehouse near us and when the whistle blares to call the volunteer firefighters and-or  the paramedics to act I always say a prayer. Thank God for emergency service personnel. It is a calling no doubt for what tragedies they see and the dangers they face every day. Bless them.

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #29 on: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 15:57:05 »
agreed ocean , my father said it best "pray on the way " .... to the hospital.
Wise man.  ::smile:: Yes indeed.
There's a firehouse near us and when the whistle blares to call the volunteer firefighters and-or  the paramedics to act I always say a prayer. Thank God for emergency service personnel. It is a calling no doubt for what tragedies they see and the dangers they face every day. Bless them.
yep , I find myself grabbing moments of prayer like that all the time , when funerals pass on the road ,when I see an erratic driver "lord watch over them , in Jesus name " and " thank you lord for watching over your foolish children, thank you Jesus " ...sometimes both ...depending on traffic.. .lol...

Offline Ocean

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #30 on: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 17:09:38 »
agreed ocean , my father said it best "pray on the way " .... to the hospital.
Wise man.  ::smile:: Yes indeed.
There's a firehouse near us and when the whistle blares to call the volunteer firefighters and-or  the paramedics to act I always say a prayer. Thank God for emergency service personnel. It is a calling no doubt for what tragedies they see and the dangers they face every day. Bless them.
yep , I find myself grabbing moments of prayer like that all the time , when funerals pass on the road ,when I see an erratic driver "lord watch over them , in Jesus name " and " thank you lord for watching over your foolish children, thank you Jesus " ...sometimes both ...depending on traffic.. .lol...


Same here. "God bless the need."

Though I admit being a card of sorts, when my funeral procession rolls down the road to the houseboat that's going to proceed out to sea with friends and family aboard so my ashes can be shot off in fireworks over the ocean, I'm going to have a small moving van following behind the hearse that holds my ashes. With banners on all sides of the box truck that read. "Rest In Peace _______________. Yep! She' taking it with her!"  ::noworries::

This truck will simply contain all the supplies for the houseboat wake, but people don't have to know that.  ::giggle::

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #31 on: Tue Jan 06, 2015 - 18:18:05 »
 ::applause:: LOL....

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #32 on: Wed Jan 07, 2015 - 05:19:22 »
When I die , I'll be asking what for? Who  here can answer that?
« Last Edit: Wed Jan 07, 2015 - 05:30:32 by Jd34 »

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #33 on: Wed Jan 07, 2015 - 07:55:07 »
When I die , I'll be asking what for? Who  here can answer that?

 ???  Because death is a part of life...

Jd34

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Re: Are there any Pentecostals aboard? Can we talk?
« Reply #34 on: Fri Jan 09, 2015 - 01:22:43 »
When I die , I'll be asking what for? Who  here can answer that?

 ???  Because death is a part of life...

What's this notion about dieing  all about? Lets hear it!


 

     
anything