Baptism in the Spirit

[Elaine]

Hi Jimmy,

That stepping up that fenton mentioned is so simple compared to what the woman did  ---bleeding for years and not being allowed to even be in the public and dragging herself through a crowd -to simply touch Jesus' garment. And then we all know what He said to her. :)

Faith is a subtle thing - belief also is ---deep in the recesses of our minds -we may harbor doubt ---and we are not even aware of it!!! One of the ways a sliver of doubt creeps in is to say ---"Well, maybe God doesn't want to heal "me". (Even though we profess to believe that He is not a respecter of persons ---STILL there can be this little remnent of questioning for ourselves.)

"Maybe I'm supposed to have cancer to learn something? Maybe I am supposed to have Lupus because I was "bad" to someone."  Maybe this or maybe that.  And we must know with all of our conviction --that No, God wants me well.

Faith comes from hearing and hearing the Word of God -I thnk that's it.   The more we dive into the healing messages we get stronger in our belief that indeed that is precisely what God wants for us ---all of us.

If the Holy Spirit wants me healed  --but I'm hanging onto my sickness for some deep psycological reason ---will I let Him work in my life?--Does that mean He is not all powerful ---no --but I'm not allowing Him in.   fenton,Born to Reign, and I may look at this differently - I don't know ---I'm open to learning.  But so far it's working for me.

I just made a post on Gen Disc ---J man has a thread on where does sickness come from...

[BornToReign]

all I did was post a Scripture that shows an example of the Apostle Paul not being healed of his thorn in the flesh because, as God told him, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness."

That is no attack on anyone's faith... it just shows that God heals when it is His will to heal.

Lack of faith on Paul's part?  I think not.  Rather, he was not healed for the reason he was given there in 2 Corinthians 12.

"the messenger of Satan to buffet me"

His "thorn in the flesh" was not a disease. It was persecution for the gospel.
Thorn in the flesh was an OT term; (Numb.33:55, Josh.22:13, Judges 2:3) Paul used Old Testament terminology to refer to the persecution he was suffering. His thorn was persecution not some sickness. We are not redeemed from persecution. 2Tim.3:12


And casting doubt in anyones mind to what they have faith in is attacking their faith, you make their faith weak by introducing doubt and unbelief.

And so by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.  -1Cr.8:13

[fenton]

What we can't discuss is whether or not you or anyone else has been miraculously healed.  Unless of course you have some proof of it.  Otherwise iit is only a statement by you and that is not something we can discuss.
[/quote]

so you cant or wont believe me if i say i have been healed of a vary rare disease, with only my word?

[Jimmy]

What we can't discuss is whether or not you or anyone else has been miraculously healed.  Unless of course you have some proof of it.  Otherwise iit is only a statement by you and that is not something we can discuss.

so you cant or wont believe me if i say i have been healed of a vary rare disease, with only my word?

I have been healed of a lot of things, and I praise God for that.  But I don't believe there was a miracle in any of it.

[fenton]

you believe you can be healed but you don't believe in miracles?

how odd!

i thought a healing was a miracle!!!!!

i guess we differ a LOT.

[DCR]

all I did was post a Scripture that shows an example of the Apostle Paul not being healed of his thorn in the flesh because, as God told him, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness."

That is no attack on anyone's faith... it just shows that God heals when it is His will to heal.

Lack of faith on Paul's part?  I think not.  Rather, he was not healed for the reason he was given there in 2 Corinthians 12.

"the messenger of Satan to buffet me"

His "thorn in the flesh" was not a disease.

Then, what do you make of this?

Galatians 4
¹³As you know, it was because of an illness that I first preached the gospel to you. ¹⁴Even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself. ¹⁵What has happened to all your joy? I can testify that, if you could have done so, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.

This "illness" (NIV) or "infirmity of the flesh" (KJV) has long been thought to have been a problem with Paul's eyes (especially in light of his statement there in Gal. 4:15).  This was likely the same thing he was referring to in 2 Cor. 12.

[fenton]

your saying we use Pauls thorn to say that God doesnt perform miracles any more?




you might aughta come up with a better one than that!!!!!

there is nobody around here like Paul!!!! unless you claim to be!!

[DCR]

your saying we use Pauls thorn to say that God doesnt perform miracles any more?

No, that isn't what I said.

I never said that God doesn't heal today, when it is His will.

But, it isn't always His will, as in the case of Paul.

[fenton]

Jesus took those stripes so we would not be sick.

Isa 53:5  But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

1Pe 2:24  Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.


so how could it NOT be His will for us to be Healthy.
Your saying Jesus took those stripes for nothing... they mean absolutely nothing..

[Jimmy]

you believe you can be healed but you don't believe in miracles?

how odd!

i thought a healing was a miracle!!!!!

i guess we differ a LOT.

Where in the world did you get such an idea.  Most times we are healed quite naturally by this amazing body that God created for mankind.

And even if we are healed by some intervention on God's part.  Do you think that God can do nothing apart from working a miracle?

Yes I guess we differ a LOT.

And also who said I didn't believe in miracles?  This discussion has nothing to do with whether or not I believe in miracles.

[Jimmy]

Jesus took those stripes so we would not be sick.

Now that is just plain weird thinking.

[DCR]

Jesus took those stripes so we would not be sick.

Isa 53:5  But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

1Pe 2:24  Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.


so how could it NOT be His will for us to be Healthy.
Your saying Jesus took those stripes for nothing... they mean absolutely nothing..

If you think those passages only refer to physical health, then you have a pretty shallow grasp of the gospel.  I hope you think there's more to it than that.

Jesus didn't die on the cross to spare us from every toothache and ankle sprain.  He took the stripes so that we might be spiritually healed from sin.    

[fenton]

Agreed

but physically also..............

[DCR]

Agreed

but physically also..............

People do still physically die, don't they?

As far as I know, every Christian who's ever lived was not healed of the final physical ailment that caused death in the end, even in old age.

[fenton]

Agreed

but physically also..............

People do still physically die, don't they?

As far as I know, every Christian who's ever lived was not healed of the final physical ailment that caused death in the end, even in old age.

GEESH!!!!!!!!