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Author Topic: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More  (Read 31311 times)

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Offline MPaul

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #70 on: Sun Jun 20, 2010 - 08:47:03 »
Is this how you treat people within your own church?  Or only on an internet forum.  I'm not telling you to shut up.  Please illustrate for me exactly where in any of my posts to you where I have told you to shut up.  That is interjecting something into the conversation which has not been said and it's a dishonest tactic.  I'm pointing out that you behavior is poor and your posts are confusing.  I sometimes cannot make out whether you are a Cessasionist or a Pentecostal.  And I am speaking directly to your behavior in this thread.  I have no clue how you conduct yourself in others.  I do know in this particular thread that someone has apologized to you at least four times now and yet you are still badgering her.  If you think that that is acceptable behavior for a Christian, you better do a little more studying.

Actually, I am trying to figure out a way to ignore her, but she keeps posting to me.

At any rate, thanks for your opinion on my personal character. I know others who would agree with you, and they also deny that tongues is the initial evidence of Spirit Baptism. Hmm... so if you want to believe I only accept Classical Pentecostal theology because I am defective.... well, it's OK with me. Tyndale and Luther never let these things upset them either.

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #70 on: Sun Jun 20, 2010 - 08:47:03 »

Offline vonny

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #71 on: Sun Jun 20, 2010 - 08:49:01 »
Quote
Actually, I am trying to figure out a way to ignore her, but she keeps posting to me.

You'd been rude, and I was upset by that. I wanted resolution.

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #71 on: Sun Jun 20, 2010 - 08:49:01 »

Offline MPaul

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #72 on: Sun Jun 20, 2010 - 08:50:26 »
Well Vonny,

I have to say, I do not find you at all credible. Sorry, if you find that overly aggressive, but I think I have that right. And the post you deleted -- it set out Pentecostal theology in a way that is not Pentecostal theology at all -- so how is it you did not learn Pentecostal theology at the Pentecostal church you went to, and where is it you did get your ideas about them?

Offline vonny

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #73 on: Sun Jun 20, 2010 - 08:56:09 »
Well, I don't understand why you don't find me credible, all on the basis of deleting a post?  ::pondering:: If I'm not credible on the basis of not understanding 'true' Pentecostal theology, then you'll have to spell it out. But don't call me a liar, please.MPaul, love does not cast doubt on a person if you have no real evidence or reason to doubt them.

There's no point in me asking where you think I misrepresented Pentecostal theology, I don't suppose, as you don't think me 'credible'.

I'm a little upset at the moment, but I guess I'll get over it...just been a while since I experienced this kind of encounter.

Anyway, best not to continue...be blessed today.

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #73 on: Sun Jun 20, 2010 - 08:56:09 »

Offline Eagle

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #74 on: Sun Jun 20, 2010 - 20:35:29 »
Paul,   The attitude you show here is why after 50+ years as a Pentecostal see the damage we/they do.  


1Co 13:1  Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.


Jas 1:26  If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

Just because one has not experienced what Vonny has does not in any way give one the right to 'covertly' call Vonny a liar.    Why not be thankfull the churches you have been to are pleasent?  

Care for a list if creepy Pentecostals?

Swaggart,  Bakker,  Borning,  Roberts,  Savage,   the list  could go on.

 Being Pentecostal is not the goal being CHRIST like is the goal.  Many of the Pentecostals i know would do well to grasp this verse..

Luk 6:42  Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.


 
including  myself and other person in my immediate family.

« Last Edit: Sun Jun 20, 2010 - 21:20:22 by Eagle »

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #74 on: Sun Jun 20, 2010 - 20:35:29 »



Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #75 on: Sun Jun 20, 2010 - 21:01:03 »
Actually, I am trying to figure out a way to ignore her, but she keeps posting to me.

At any rate, thanks for your opinion on my personal character. I know others who would agree with you, and they also deny that tongues is the initial evidence of Spirit Baptism. Hmm... so if you want to believe I only accept Classical Pentecostal theology because I am defective.... well, it's OK with me. Tyndale and Luther never let these things upset them either.

I notice you totally ignore that with which you do not want to deal with, and I see that you still can't actually deal with the gist of what is said, you simply attempt to smear the person.  

What exactly would be "classical" pentecostal theology?  Is that some kind of greatest hits album?  Despite bleatings by you to the contrary, different pentecostal denominations have different doctrine.  There is not one pentecostal doctrine that fits all just as there is not one single form of Protestant doctrine.  As for Tyndale and Luther, why do you keep dragging them into the discussion?  They are both dead, I don't think they will be joining the conversation.  Luther was a raging anti-semitic, so I don't think I'd be holding him up as a spotless role model.  That is kind of like the people who label themselves Calvinist, failing to realize they have branded themselves as followers of a man who had people killed for not believeing the way he did.  Nice.

Defective?  Once again, ad hominem because I never said you were defective, I said you were rude, so if you have a dictionary handy, look up both words so you can understand the difference.  All I gather from your rather dis-jointed post is that, evidently, if you speak in tongues, you are allowed to be rude and carry around a big persecution complex.  How does that fit in with the Classical Pentecostal hit parade?  Being rude is always unaceptable, especially when dealing with fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, but hey, maybe according to your flavor-of-the-month Classical Pentecostal doctrine, we aren't brothers and sisters in Christ because we don't speak in tongues?  Only you do not know whether we do or not, which would still leave your behavior unacceptable.  Hmmm. . .  I guess it's also hard for you to gauge whether your behavior is poor or not without gauging it according to what Tyndale or Luther would or would not have said or done.  Doesn't that make things a bit difficult in a supermarket or fast food restaraunt?  Or do you have crib notes that say "Luther would have advocated having the non-tongues-speaking grocery stocker burned at the stake."  So you can then tell the person "Yeah, well you're lucky Luther isn't here because, he would have had you burned at the stake!"  I'll bet that would make for some interesting conversations.  Behave whatever way you see fit, and use whatever baseless rational to do so, you will be the one who answers for it, but don't expect everyone to just take it.

New!  Classical Pentecostal Doctrine Lite!  Same great doctrine without all the love and respect.  

Offline vonny

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #76 on: Mon Jun 21, 2010 - 03:23:49 »
Quote
Just because one has not experienced what Vonny has does not in any way give one the right to 'covertly' call Vonny a liar.    Why not be thankfull the churches you have been to are pleasent? 

He might have won me over to listen to him had he simply thought of the possibility that I was representing what I know to be Pentecostal theology, and am genuinely ignorant as he sees it, rather than assuming that I was false. I've got no reason to lie;I'm a mother, a real person,  I've been a poster on the forums for months, I've been open about my life on the forums, and most importantly, I love Jesus very much and take growing to be like him seriously. Jesus definitely taught that lying is sin and not the kind of behaviour that befits a born again child of God. One day, I'd like to discuss with MPaul without the suspicion involved, as he seems like an intelligent man.

I had a look through many of the articles on MPaul's site, and I really did enjoy them. I did, however, stumble across a statement that cessationism (or I'm assuming anything akin to it) meant that one fulfilled the prophetic description in 2 Timothy 3:5

Quote
holding a form of godliness, but having denied the power thereof: from these also turn away.

I actually don't think that fits the context, respectfully, and unfairly lumps many truly born again, fruitful believers into the category of one who fits this category:

Quote
But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth

I don't love pleasue more than God, or deny that godliness is truly inward. I don't live an immoral life all the while claiming to know God. ::pondering::

Maybe room for a discussion on that topic elsewhere?

 ::smile::

The above might be an insight into why the discussion went the way it did. Yet, I do know the power of Christ to renew me inwardly day by day, heart being drawn closer and desiring to grow in grace and fruitfulness. How on earth would that disqualify me from being called a believer, just because I do not speak in tongues?


Anyway, as I said earlier, be blessed.

Perhaps another discussion, another day, on the theology forum.




Offline eveh

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #77 on: Fri Sep 10, 2010 - 20:56:23 »
If you have not received the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues (the witness) then you are not in the body of Christ. The baptism places you in the body and without his spirit you are none of his. You cannot call him Lord except by the Holy Ghost. Many will say Lord, Lord, and he will say I never knew you.

Offline Eagle

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #78 on: Mon Sep 13, 2010 - 09:43:49 »
If you have not received the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues (the witness) then you are not in the body of Christ. The baptism places you in the body and without his spirit you are none of his. You cannot call him Lord except by the Holy Ghost. Many will say Lord, Lord, and he will say I never knew you.


The above is why i am ashamed to call my self penticostal.

Offline eveh

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #79 on: Fri Sep 17, 2010 - 23:38:14 »
Then it will be your loss on Judgement Day. I am telling you the truth. Are you also ashamed to speak in tongues? If I am wrong then you will be fine,,,,,,,,but if I am right,,,where will you be on Judgement Day? I am not being self righteous as you might believe. I am telling you what I know from my own experience and nearly a lifetime of serving God. Dismiss if you wish but when you stand before God, you can't say you have not even heard if there be a Holy Ghost. Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed? Read Acts chapter ten.

Offline Eagle

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #80 on: Sat Sep 18, 2010 - 09:58:27 »
What if someone had their tongue cut out,  like maybe cancer?  The Blood of Christ is the way to heaven not mans tongue. 

Ashamed of tongues no. Ashamed of what people have done with them YES.

1Co 13:1  Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.


1Co 13:4  Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5  Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6  Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7  Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1Co 13:8  Charity never faileth:

Luk 18:11  The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12  I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13  And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14  I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Offline eveh

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #81 on: Sat Sep 18, 2010 - 22:59:38 »



Paul obviously spoke in tongues and yet he never gave a message or prophecy in church. Then what tongue was he speaking if it wasn't the gift of tongues? You are missing the fact that one is the tongue you receive when the Holy Ghost enters your body. The other is a Gift for the edification of the church's. One tongue is between you and God and only he understands.  It is to build you up and edify you. The Gift of tongues is to give a message to the church, to lift them up and edify them. For that Gift, there must be someone who can tell you what the person speaking in tongues is saying to the church. The tongue between you and God needs no interpreter.

Offline Eagle

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #82 on: Sat Sep 18, 2010 - 23:44:35 »
When did Paul tell you he never gave a message or prophecy? 


Gal 6:14  But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Offline Brooktrout

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #83 on: Sun Sep 19, 2010 - 06:15:31 »
I respectfully disagree with the fact that you have to speak in tongues to have the Holy Spirit present. I know there is scripture that says to have an interpretor present when someone is speaking in tongues and I have yet to see this. We are also commanded to worship in an orderly fashion and quite often it is chaos. God is a God of order. Now I am not saying all Pentacostal churches are like this, but I have visited many and this is what I have seen. Most I have heard sound alike and you hear the same sounds (cannot say if they are words) over and over again without much deviation. Now I am not trying to attack or offend anyone and if that is what you believe I respect that. I have found that so many are leaning toward the experiential and feelings and taking scripture out of context. We do not go by experience or feelings, we go by what scripture says. Now Abraham was blessed because he believed God and had faith. I do not need to have experiences to have faith or the Holy Spirit. It is a simple Gospel message and I stand on that. I believe that God loves it when we say "Even if I do not see miracles, signs, and wonders, I still believe you Lord". I believe if someone truly speaks in tongues they are speaking in a valid language like French, Chinese, Farsi, etc. that they normally cannot speak in normal circumstances. What good is it if someone is speaking/praying in some unknown language but nobody can understand? How does this edify the church? If someone was visiting from Iran and someone started praying in Farsi, and that person was unsaved, now that makes much more sense because God is a God of order.

1 Corinthians 13
Love
 1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

1 Corinthians 14:6 (New International Version)

 6Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?


http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/90-58_How-Do-Spiritual-Gifts-Operate?q=Speaking+in+Tongues

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/1871_The-Truth-About-Tongues-Part-1?q=Speaking+in+Tongues

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/1872_The-Truth-About-Tongues-Part-2?q=Speaking+in+Tongues

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/1873_The-Truth-About-Tongues-Part-3?q=Speaking+in+Tongues

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/1874_The-Truth-About-Tongues-Part-4?q=Speaking+in+Tongues

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/1214_Miracles-Healings-and-Tongues?q=Speaking+in+Tongues

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Bible+Introductions/MSB46_First-Corinthians

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/90-59_What-Was-Happening-in-the-Early-Church?q=Speaking+in+Tongues

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermon+Series/219_Charismatic-Chaos
« Last Edit: Sun Sep 19, 2010 - 06:46:23 by Brooktrout »

Offline Eagle

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #84 on: Sun Sep 19, 2010 - 09:48:06 »
Brooktrout,

   Tall pines,  camp fire under frying potatoes, trout floured, corn mealed ready for the pan....


Sixty plus years ago i was born into a wonderful Pentecostal family Dad was a preacher....I have seen all sides of 'tongues'. I have seen some mighty works of God through many folks... I have seen tongue talkers on Sunday night who beat their wife on Saturday.

Some folks use tongues as a crutch some find it edifying. Please remember if a single person is edified that single person is a part of the BODY.  

For the most part i agree and the languages.  Like your on a plane and your seat mate is French and you find your self sharing the plan of salvation in French!

You posted the verse  1 Cor 13;1  this first line is one of the catchers  (1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels) angels being to operative word.  This is where ,what you are posting about is justified.

Most tongue talkers will sing   " Nothing but the Blood of Jesus" yet they want to say one must speak in tongues to be saved.

Some folks need signs and wonders today just as the did when Jesus walked this earth. Some don't, God is good to His kids.

1Co 13:1  Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.  

1Co 14:39  Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.


The above verses are both God's Word , i believe they carry the same weight.  

As far as emotions.. What ever can be more emotional then His great love for us. Loving Him because He first loved us is very much emotion.

Just try to explane to your wife/husband you love her without showing emotion. (hint)
she/he wont believe you....
« Last Edit: Sun Sep 19, 2010 - 10:57:26 by Eagle »

Offline Brooktrout

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #85 on: Sun Sep 19, 2010 - 10:10:04 »
Hi Eagle and I truly respect your opinion, but it was not meant to confuse love and regular human emotion. I do understand what you are saying, but I am talking about the Benny Hinn's, Todd Bentley's, kenneth Copeland's, and many more of the world. I hope you are not misunderstanding me and are not under the impression that I think ALL Pentacostal's are like this. I really love the Book oF Job and all he went through, expecially when he said "Though he may slay me, yet I will trust him". Sometimes all we have to go on is faith and I believe God loves that. When someone's faith is based on just miracles, signs and wonder's then where is the faith of belief and scripture? I feel like I am spirit filled, and do not speak in tongue's but think the gift of tongue's has been perverted and taken out of context.

I really appreciate your opinion Eagle and thank you for your comments.

Your SIC,
Brooktrout

PS I work for a wonderful SIC who is Pentacostal and I love her to pieces. She does dissect scripture and strives to keep things in context and based strictly on scripture.

Offline Eagle

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #86 on: Sun Sep 19, 2010 - 10:53:23 »
Brooktrout, 

you are correct.... 
Quote
Benny Hinn's, Todd Bentley's, kenneth Copeland's, and many more of the world.Benny Hinn's, Todd Bentley's, kenneth Copeland's, and many more of the world.
they are of the 'world' their fruits have shown through...

Thanks for the pleasent exchange!     

Offline Brooktrout

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #87 on: Sun Sep 19, 2010 - 11:07:29 »
God Bless you Eagle and have a BLESSED day!

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #88 on: Sun Sep 19, 2010 - 12:46:40 »
A man is walking through fire when he addresses denominations but saints I have something to tell you.
Denominations are divisions. There is no agreement on doctrine! The church that belongs to God will not call itself by any mainstream denomination but it is in fact THE CHURCH OF THE FIRST BORN FROM THE DEAD. Hebrews 12:23
How do I know this? Once I was dead but now I am alive! Romans 6:3-13 When we lived ignorance of God being hated and hating one another envying and provoking living for our own evil desires we were by nature objects of wrath! But when Christ appeared he saved us not because of what we did but because of his own mercy and grace.
He put a new heart and a new spirit in us that we should no longer live for ourselves but for him who died for us. You are his witnesses that he is God, the only Savior.
You have been brought from death to life being renewed in mind being transformed into the likeness of his Son. He chose to give us birth through the word of truth.
He put a seal on us, the Holy Spirit in us as a deposit guaranteeing the inheritance to come. You have been born again not from perishable seed but of living seed-the word of God.
There is no denomination in Christ!!! Christ in you, the hope of glory!
And this is eternal life-knowing the Father and the Son. This is what he has promised us-even eternal life. He promised! They will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest! God bless you all.
I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me. Isaiah 65:1

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #89 on: Sun Sep 19, 2010 - 23:57:37 »
Speaking of tongues made me remember something that happened in service.
Yes I also find it odd if all are speaking in tongues by one spirit in an entirely english congregation then why are they not all speaking the same thing?
Recorded in the book of Acts in a crowd of many languages those who spoke in tongues spoke in different languages because multiple languaged people were present and each heard the wonders of God in their own language.
I do speak in tongues myself but rarely. I find it occurs while in despair.
Now to a testimony while in service. The man standing beside me was repeating the same word over and over loudly and his tone was unsettling. I prayed briefly to the Lord. The mans voice quieted and suddenly I was flat on my back; as they call slain in the Spirit having a peace come over me when the mans voice stilled. I could not get up!!!! I could not move a muscle!!! In the presence of the Lord as recorded you are as a dead man. After some time I regained my strength and was able to rise.

Offline Frank_N_Sense

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #90 on: Mon Sep 20, 2010 - 00:49:06 »
Speaking of tongues made me remember something that happened in service.
Yes I also find it odd if all are speaking in tongues by one spirit in an entirely english congregation then why are they not all speaking the same thing?
Recorded in the book of Acts in a crowd of many languages those who spoke in tongues spoke in different languages because multiple languaged people were present and each heard the wonders of God in their own language.
I do speak in tongues myself but rarely. I find it occurs while in despair.
Now to a testimony while in service. The man standing beside me was repeating the same word over and over loudly and his tone was unsettling. I prayed briefly to the Lord. The mans voice quieted and suddenly I was flat on my back; as they call slain in the Spirit having a peace come over me when the mans voice stilled. I could not get up!!!! I could not move a muscle!!! In the presence of the Lord as recorded you are as a dead man. After some time I regained my strength and was able to rise.

Tongues is a gift.............  Isn't it a bit odd that they all have the same gift???

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #91 on: Mon Sep 20, 2010 - 01:03:06 »
Yes. That was kind of the point. God bless Frank. More often when I listen to those speaking tongues its more rambling than an intelligable language. This is one reason why myself dont do it often. Because without a translation its meaningless. However I have listened and to my amazement have found the language I was speaking or atleast to say recognized words receiving a translation.
I have also noticed answers to prayer or one might say a way was provided after praying in tongues.

Offline Brooktrout

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #92 on: Mon Sep 20, 2010 - 04:08:03 »
I agree and find it odd that almost every member of some church's have the same gift? There are even schools to teach people to speak in tongue's, which I find more preposterous yet. If it is a gift for today, which I do not believe it is why would you have to go to a school to learn how to do it, especially if it is a gift of the Spirit? There have been documented cases where the person speaking in tongue's was actually blaspheming God. Since most every person that does this does not know what they are saying nor the people around them, what good is it and how does it edify the church? I mentioned previously that I have yet to see an interpretor.

Offline eveh

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #93 on: Thu Sep 23, 2010 - 23:07:22 »
The Gift of tongues is for the edification of the church and only to be done if there is an interperter present.

The tongue you receive when you receive the spirit, is a witness to you and those around you that you have received the HOly Spirit just as did the Jews. It is for building up your faith and praying to God where only he  understands what you are saying. You may not know exactly what you are saying but you do know that you are magnifying God. There are two manifestations of tongues and that is what leads many to be confused. Pual did not have the Gift of tongues yet he spoke in tongues more than all of them. He spoke to God and by so doing built up his own faith.

Offline Eagle

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #94 on: Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 00:11:03 »
What makes  you think Paul did not have the 'Gift of Tongues?

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #95 on: Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 00:22:26 »
The Gift of tongues is for the edification of the church and only to be done if there is an interperter present.

The tongue you receive when you receive the spirit, is a witness to you and those around you that you have received the HOly Spirit just as did the Jews. It is for building up your faith and praying to God where only he  understands what you are saying. You may not know exactly what you are saying but you do know that you are magnifying God. There are two manifestations of tongues and that is what leads many to be confused. Pual did not have the Gift of tongues yet he spoke in tongues more than all of them. He spoke to God and by so doing built up his own faith.

Let us refine this statement with the word of truth...1 Corinthians 14

Offline eveh

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #96 on: Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 00:49:03 »
1 Cor 14 is speaking of the Gifts of the Spirt with the Gift of tongues being one of those Gifts.


This is from the Book of Acts Chapter ten....these people were not being given the Gift of tongues....they were receiving the Holy Ghost.

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Offline Eagle

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #97 on: Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 08:55:57 »
The Gift of tongues is for the edification of the church and only to be done if there is an interperter present.

The tongue you receive when you receive the spirit, is a witness to you and those around you that you have received the HOly Spirit just as did the Jews. It is for building up your faith and praying to God where only he  understands what you are saying. You may not know exactly what you are saying but you do know that you are magnifying God. There are two manifestations of tongues and that is what leads many to be confused. Pual did not have the Gift of tongues yet he spoke in tongues more than all of them. He spoke to God and by so doing built up his own faith.


What makes you believe Paul did not have the Gift of tongues?

Offline eveh

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #98 on: Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 21:59:57 »
Sorry, wasn't ignoring your first question,,just forgot to get back to you. I base it on the fact that he mentioned praying to God in tongues but never Mentioned giving a message in chruch. I think he would have mentioned that if he had. Of course, it might not have seemed necessary to mention it since he never said he had that gift.


Verse 18: I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you [Corinthians].

Verse 19: Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

Apparently he knew that the tongues he spoke would not edify the church.


Offline Eagle

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #99 on: Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 23:16:51 »
Eve thanks for the answer. 

Offline jimmyjake

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #100 on: Sat Nov 13, 2010 - 17:42:21 »
Rom 1:21  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Offline Hartofgold8679

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #101 on: Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 12:22:37 »

Pentecostals claim that without evidence of tongues the Holy Spirit is not in you.  The Bible says Mat 7:20  Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

But Pentecostals claimed that you shall know them by a gift. (speaking in tongues)  Sorry pentecostal brothers but when most of you think that you are speaking in tongues you are really not.  Most of it are emotional outbursts.  And Larry the tongues are languages and yes they can be a sign.  But they are not a sign in themselves.  Any one can mimic them. I have seen them do it.  God bless us as we continue to find the truth that is in His word.

A big generalization with no visible means of support.  That is not what the majority of Pentecostal denominations 'claim' so you might want to dip your size 12 brush in a different can of paint.

As for your claims about tongues, I wouldn't know where to start.  I see many people who harbor disdain for anyone or anything labeled 'pentecostal' use the same bogus argument over and over, that tongues are just different languages and it is simply another claim with no visible means of support.  Nothing like dumping everyone in the same tarnished basket and saying if they speak in tongues, they must be faking it.  I could say the same thing about anyone who claims to be a Christian, because there are plenty of fakes.  How about if I made this statement:

"Anyone can mimic Christianity.  I have seen them do it."

Does that then mean that everyone who claims to be a Christian is a fake?  Zero validity.  Some fake it = All fake it is circular logic.

Should I pidgeon-hole you into a certain negative slot because you seem to like to go around criticizing Pentecostals?  Does everyone get to play the blame game?


 ::amen!:: ::clappingoverhead:: I know that its been awhile since anyone has posted here, but I couldn't help it. I am amazed at some of the things I read in these threads. It saddens me to see us at each others throats. It is important for us to remember that we should not be comparing ourselves to another, we are individuals, all delt with indivdualy by our Father. He has no favorits. To bash one church for their gift is not right. We all have gifts that God planed for us before the foundations of the world, so telling someone that speaks in tounges that they must be faking it is horrible. We also need to know that by speaking badly or against the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin.1Jn 5:16  If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. This refers back to Matt 12;31,32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32  And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Not saying that anyoe here has done that just a warning to tread lightly when speaking of The Spirit of God. The Word of God says that
1Co 12:1  Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
1Co 12:2  Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
1Co 12:3  Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
1Co 12:4  Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5  And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6  And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7  But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8  For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9  To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10  To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11  But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
1Co 12:12  For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13  For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co 12:14  For the body is not one member, but many.
These gifts are given to us as God planned. Wedo not all have the same gifts. I have been blessed with the Git of healing and teaching, but I also speak in tounges. The gifts are given to us as God sees fit.
These gifts where given to us by Christ JesusEph 4:1  I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Eph 4:2  With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Eph 4:3  Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4  There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5  One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6  One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:7  But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Eph 4:8  Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9  (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10  He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4:11  And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12  For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14  That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15  But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16  From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

We must stop the spirit of pride from creaping in. My way may not be your way but who am I to ever tell you that you are wrong and vis versa. I we could concentrate more on Gods will for our life so that we may prove what is that good,and acceptable, and perfect will of God, we wouldn't be worried  if someone agrees with the way you beleive or not. Becoming distracted from your personal walk is a dieception of our common enemy. I am not at all telling anyone not to preach or teachthe Gospel I am saying that we should all have our own understanding of Gods word and not depend on others for understanding. Anyway I could go on forever and I don't know if anyone is even going to read this. I was led to say something so I did. God bless you all.

Offline Lavender

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #102 on: Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 02:21:13 »
Hi, Hartofgold - I read your post and thank you for it.  I also read some of the other posts and it is so sad that there is so much misunderstanding about tongues.  People have it so tangled up because of things they hear others say that I just let out a big sigh and wish  that I could sit down with them for a while and to talk it over.  It's such a beautiful gift, as they all are, that it's a shame it's being treated the way it is.


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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #103 on: Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 05:28:08 »
The Gift of tongues is for the edification of the church and only to be done if there is an interperter present.

The tongue you receive when you receive the spirit, is a witness to you and those around you that you have received the HOly Spirit just as did the Jews. It is for building up your faith and praying to God where only he  understands what you are saying. You may not know exactly what you are saying but you do know that you are magnifying God. There are two manifestations of tongues and that is what leads many to be confused. Pual did not have the Gift of tongues yet he spoke in tongues more than all of them. He spoke to God and by so doing built up his own faith.


 Yup you have got it right here. The gift of tongues is different from the language that God gives us to use in private just to Him. The gift is it be used in church where God gives a word through a person using that gift. There will then be an interpretation. The prayer language that we have is for our own edification and for praying to God with.  ::smile::

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Re: I Used to be a Pentecostal....BUT, No More
« Reply #104 on: Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 05:34:17 »
Lavender I so agree. Anything given to us by God is to be treasured and valued.
This always happens when this gift is mentioned though and I think its because it is a powerful gift.

 

     
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