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Author Topic: Corollary to "If a tree falls...............  (Read 7018 times)

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Offline Jaime

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Corollary to "If a tree falls...............
« on: January 14, 2009, 08:18:56 PM »
 "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound?"

Married couples corollary:
 "If a man says something and his wife is not there to hear him, is he still wrong?"

So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. - Milton Friedman

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. - Milton Friedman

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Corollary to "If a tree falls...............
« on: January 14, 2009, 08:18:56 PM »

Offline Jimbob

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Re: Corollary to "If a tree falls...............
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2009, 08:29:09 PM »
I'm not touching that one.  But, the whole "if a tree falls" thing has a very inherent flaw from the get go.  It seems to based on the assumption that man is (or at least may be) at the center of all that does or does not happen, and encourages us to be arrogant enough to consider the possibility that if we aren't there, it doesn't happen.

Too, if you believe the Scriptures that God is omnipresent and omniscient, how would a tree fall without anyone there to here it? Where is there a "there" that God is not there to hear?
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Re: Corollary to "If a tree falls...............
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2009, 08:29:09 PM »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Corollary to "If a tree falls...............
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2009, 06:13:08 AM »
We discussed this in a physics class one time at college many years ago. The professor was arguing that if a receptor of the sound waves was not there, be it an electronic device, or a human or non-human ear, is a sound wave generated. Of course we never got to the bottom of it.
So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. - Milton Friedman

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. - Milton Friedman

Offline Jimbob

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Re: Corollary to "If a tree falls...............
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2009, 06:29:43 AM »
The stench in the men's room is still there whether you're there to smell it or not.  In fact, it's growing.  Same principle.

(On another note, I never was much help with the "one hand clapping" question, either.  I can make the clapping sound with one hand.  No meditation in Tibet required.)
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Re: Corollary to "If a tree falls...............
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2009, 06:29:43 AM »

Offline Bon Voyage

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Re: Corollary to "If a tree falls...............
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2009, 06:28:11 PM »
"If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound?"

Married couples corollary:
 "If a man says something and his wife is not there to hear him, is he still wrong?"



My wife's husband is never wrong.

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Re: Corollary to "If a tree falls...............
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2009, 06:28:11 PM »



Offline Jimbob

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Re: Corollary to "If a tree falls...............
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2009, 09:07:51 AM »
If a man's wife walks into the room while he's speaking, is he still right?
“Only he who believes is obedient and only he who is obedient believes.”
- Dietrich Bonhoeffer

“Followers of Jesus don't get to decide if they will be missionaries. They just get to choose where.”
- Rick Atchley

Offline faolanblood

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Re: Corollary to "If a tree falls...............
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2009, 04:44:37 PM »
Heb 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

You could go off of simple faith that when a tree falls and some one is near by you will hear it an so why would it be different if you are not there
Ps 147:3
He healeth the broken in heart, and bindeth up their wounds.

Offline HRoberson

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Re: Corollary to "If a tree falls...............
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2009, 07:36:36 PM »
We discussed this in a physics class one time at college many years ago. The professor was arguing that if a receptor of the sound waves was not there, be it an electronic device, or a human or non-human ear, is a sound wave generated. Of course we never got to the bottom of it.

The answer is quite simple.

A sound wave is generated, if by "sound wave" you mean a wave of air emanating because of the falling tree.

However, a sound is only a sound if there is some receptor there to translate the air wave into sound.
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Offline Jaime

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Re: Corollary to "If a tree falls...............
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2009, 07:42:33 PM »
We discussed this in a physics class one time at college many years ago. The professor was arguing that if a receptor of the sound waves was not there, be it an electronic device, or a human or non-human ear, is a sound wave generated. Of course we never got to the bottom of it.

The answer is quite simple.

A sound wave is generated, if by "sound wave" you mean a wave of air emanating because of the falling tree.

However, a sound is only a sound if there is some receptor there to translate the air wave into sound.

But are you still wrong if your wife doesn't hear you?
So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. - Milton Friedman

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. - Milton Friedman

Offline HRoberson

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Re: Corollary to "If a tree falls...............
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2009, 09:21:32 PM »
We discussed this in a physics class one time at college many years ago. The professor was arguing that if a receptor of the sound waves was not there, be it an electronic device, or a human or non-human ear, is a sound wave generated. Of course we never got to the bottom of it.

The answer is quite simple.

A sound wave is generated, if by "sound wave" you mean a wave of air emanating because of the falling tree.

However, a sound is only a sound if there is some receptor there to translate the air wave into sound.

But are you still wrong if your wife doesn't hear you?

No, but you are still guilty of ignoring her.


"My wife says I don't listen to her."

"Well, I think that's what she says."
Me, MC, MS, LMFT
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I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was going to blame you.
We're not interested in Christ-like behavior here; we want to know what the rules are.
...to love mercy, act justly, and walk humbly with God
Sometimes you just have to let it go.

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Corollary to "If a tree falls...............
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2009, 07:11:44 AM »
No tip from the wife, then.
taller, better looking and smarter . . .

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Offline HRoberson

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Re: Corollary to "If a tree falls...............
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2009, 10:04:53 PM »
Silly boy!

I'm not the one that has to keep the iced tea glass filled.
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Offline DCR

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Re: Corollary to "If a tree falls...............
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2009, 01:58:45 PM »
The answer is quite simple.

A sound wave is generated, if by "sound wave" you mean a wave of air emanating because of the falling tree.

However, a sound is only a sound if there is some receptor there to translate the air wave into sound.

I'm not sure I buy the distinction made between a "sound" and a "sound wave." 

The sound is the sound wave.  Otherwise, it's like saying that a beam of light isn't really light until an eye (or other receptor) sees it.  The receptor has no cause in the thing that causes the sound or the light.  The receptor's detection of the sound or the light doesn't somehow change the nature of the sound in terms of what it is.  It only observes it.

If something exists, it doesn't exist only because an observer observed it.  It exists regardless of whether anything or anyone observed it.

Offline HRoberson

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Re: Corollary to "If a tree falls...............
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2009, 03:02:59 PM »
The answer is quite simple.

A sound wave is generated, if by "sound wave" you mean a wave of air emanating because of the falling tree.

However, a sound is only a sound if there is some receptor there to translate the air wave into sound.

I'm not sure I buy the distinction made between a "sound" and a "sound wave." 

The sound is the sound wave.  Otherwise, it's like saying that a beam of light isn't really light until an eye (or other receptor) sees it.  The receptor has no cause in the thing that causes the sound or the light.  The receptor's detection of the sound or the light doesn't somehow change the nature of the sound in terms of what it is.  It only observes it.

If something exists, it doesn't exist only because an observer observed it.  It exists regardless of whether anything or anyone observed it.

A "sound wave" is a misnomer actually. It is really only an air wave.

An air wave needs a receptor that can translate the change in pressure on the receptor into a phenomena we interpret as sound.

In space, despite almost universal depictions to the contrary, if something blows up, you won't hear it unless there is some substance that results in changed pressure on your ear drum.

Or, a deaf person doesn't hear your voice, even though your vocal cords vibrate the air around them. Why not? Because the deaf person's receptors are broken.

Ergo, air movement, but no sound.
Me, MC, MS, LMFT
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I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was going to blame you.
We're not interested in Christ-like behavior here; we want to know what the rules are.
...to love mercy, act justly, and walk humbly with God
Sometimes you just have to let it go.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Corollary to "If a tree falls...............
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2009, 03:26:20 PM »
Ergo, air movement, but no sound.

Is Ergo DCR's real name???
So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. - Milton Friedman

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. - Milton Friedman