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Author Topic: Is Judas at fault for betraying jesus? Just asking...  (Read 381 times)
canuck
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« on: July 23, 2009, 05:14:49 PM »

Since Jesus always said that everything that has to be was already written...and one of those circumstances that has been written is that one of His disciples will betray Jesus...
should Judas bear the fault? since it was already written and it so happens that he is the one to accomplish it... Scratching head....a little confused.
\

The foreknowledge of God in and through His predestining purposes does in no way nullify human guilt or mitigate against just punishment. Judas' sin of betrayal is no different in its condemnation than other men's rejection of Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord. Judas counted the riches and pleasures of this world more important than his relationship to God. And that is essentially why the majority of the human race will wind up in hell. They are content to " ride it out" to the end, convinced in their own minds that they are no worse than the next guy; and so they die in their unrighteousness.

And since God must act judicially according to His promise, " The soul that sinneth, it shall die," (see Ezek. 18:20a) God must carry out the sentence. Judas was only one link in the road to Calvary. We must understand that as Jesus died for the sins of the world, we all share the responsibility of putting Him on that cross. It was God's foreordained plan -- but only in the context of having to atone for humanity's collective sin in order to establish forgiveness and reconciliation. Judas Iscariot just happened to have a more profoundly noticeable part in that process and is but one of billions who have already found their way into a damned eternity.

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JamesTheLeast
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« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2009, 01:02:58 AM »

Since Jesus always said that everything that has to be was already written...and one of those circumstances that has been written is that one of His disciples will betray Jesus...
should Judas bear the fault? since it was already written and it so happens that he is the one to accomplish it... Scratching head....a little confused.

Do you mean "at fault" which implies blame.  As in, he is to blame for the death of Jesus.  Which is such a heady mix of the bizzare and the ridiculous I can see it being a popular view.  Judas had no more choice that Peter.  'Course Peter became the Pope for just denying knowing Christ which kinda begs a question or two.  It is a perilous thing for mortal man to trifle in the affairs of angels and Kings.
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« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2009, 01:02:58 AM »

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larry2
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2009, 02:04:04 AM »


Jesus did not have His life taken as a result of Judas; He gave His life for us. Matthew 26:28  For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Ephesians 5:2  - -  Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
 
Judas was known before as the son of perdition due to God's foreknowledge. Though known, he was guilty of his own sin, for we read in James 1:13   Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

In Jesus' name - larry2

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« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2009, 02:31:19 PM »

Was Saul responsible for chucking the spear at David?
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« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2009, 08:38:22 PM »

 I do not know,  it kind of is what Judus born to do,  It was told in the OT. Kind of like predestination argument. Peter says in Acts 1, he went to hell.
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« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2009, 09:38:06 PM »



     Since it was foreordained as stated by Jesus just as the other events including the Crucifixion and the resurrection I 've wondered from time to time whether Judas didn't get a raw deal.  I still wonder.  God bless
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« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2009, 09:38:06 PM »

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« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2009, 09:56:36 PM »



     Since it was foreordained as stated by Jesus just as the other events including the Crucifixion and the resurrection I 've wondered from time to time whether Judas didn't get a raw deal.  I still wonder.  God bless
                                                                                                                   Walker
                                                                                                               

 Judus was looking for a different Jesus, one to save the earthly kingdom. Not a true believer. All I know Walker, God knows all, sees all, and is always right. Though we may not understand one day, we will when we dwell with him.
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« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2009, 10:30:31 PM »

It was necessary that Jesus have a context within which to give up His life for us.  If it had not been Judas it would have been somebody else.  Personal decisions led to his sins.  You sin, you die.

Did you notice the difference between the way Judas handled his sinful rejection of Jesus, compared to the way Peter handled his sinful rejection of Jesus?

Judas freaked out when he realized what he'd done.  The guilt of it, the horror of it, threatened to crush him.  He couldn't bear it one more second.  He killed himself to try to get away from the pain, and sealed himself into death, where there is no more chance to repent and be forgiven.

Peter freaked out when he realized what he'd done.  The guilt of it, the horror of it, threatened to crush him.  He couldn't bear it one more second.  He wept, he repented, he thought about going back to fishing and trying to, somehow, live the rest of his life without his Lord.  He still didn't fully understand all about grace, and he still didn't quite "get it" that the Lord meant what He said about rising again... but at least he left himself alive.  Where there is life there is hope.

Judas was, supposedly, a more intelligent man than Peter.  Certainly a more educated man.  He could have, should have, understood at least as much as an uneducated fisherman about these things.  But, for whatever reason, he stayed self-centered even in his regrets about what he did.

If only Judas had had an attitude like Peter's -- open to hope, open to trying to live for the Lord even when you've messed up -- if only Judas had also repented instead of simply regretted -- Judas would be standing there waiting for us in Heaven, just as the stories say Peter will be.
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« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2009, 11:05:02 PM »


If only Judas had had an attitude like Peter's -- open to hope, open to trying to live for the Lord even when you've messed up -- if only Judas had also repented instead of simply regretted -- Judas would be standing there waiting for us in Heaven, just as the stories say Peter will be.



What would Judas have repented of without believing on the Lord? Possibly being a child of God rather than be a son of perdition would have been of help to Judas. It seems your being locked into a person being capable of leaving God is your reasoning here; Judas was never a child of God; he was a devil. It is not one day I have eternal life, the next day I do not; oh yes, I've returned to God and now have eternal life again.

John 6:70  Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

John 17:12  While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

In Jesus' name - larry2



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« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2009, 10:14:55 AM »

I have heard the view of God 'knowing the end from the beginning' described in what I thought was a really helpful way.

God is outside time. And because of that, he can look over the expanse of those bound by it, the way we can look at the earth from an aeroplane, seeing one side of the horizon to the other.

When God is able to see the big picture like that, he can prophesy what's going to happen before it does. He can also place a man who will act wickedly and decietfully right in the place he wants them at a given time to fulfill a purpose. That person still has freewill. But God knows the sort of person they are and what they'll do in a given situation before they do it because he knows them.

That's how I would view this situation.

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« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2009, 10:14:55 AM »

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« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2009, 04:50:30 AM »

Since Jesus always said that everything that has to be was already written...and one of those circumstances that has been written is that one of His disciples will betray Jesus...
should Judas bear the fault? since it was already written and it so happens that he is the one to accomplish it... Scratching head....a little confused.
I think the simple answer is yes because we all have a choice and that was Judas' choice.
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« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2009, 08:32:14 AM »


should Judas bear the fault?

No, it's George Bush's fault.


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« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2009, 03:03:33 PM »


should Judas bear the fault?

No, it's George Bush's fault.






Which George?
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« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2009, 03:03:33 PM »

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« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2009, 03:57:36 PM »


should Judas bear the fault?

No, it's George Bush's fault.






Which George?

George the Elder

[George Junior wasn't even born yet...]
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« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2009, 09:28:09 PM »

Since Jesus always said that everything that has to be was already written...and one of those circumstances that has been written is that one of His disciples will betray Jesus...
should Judas bear the fault? since it was already written and it so happens that he is the one to accomplish it... Scratching head....a little confused.


God does not predestine people to do bad things. God does have forknowlege of the bad things people will do.
people are to blame for their sin's not God.
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