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bemark
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« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2008, 09:37:28 PM »

 Surely He has borne our griefs
      And carried our sorrows;


This is for someone now as I am starting to feel your grief

Holy Spirit cover them
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« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2008, 09:46:03 PM »
Quote from: phoebe on January 17, 2008, 09:09:58 PM
Quote from: memmy on January 17, 2008, 09:06:54 PM
I think it is wonderful that you feel that way about your daughter Phoebe. I would feel that way about any who that would happen to.

The problem is........who speaks for the daughter inside the Mommy?

I want to help give that baby girl (or boy) a voice.

While you're fighting for a voice that doesn't yet exist, I will be fighting for the right to care for my hold-in-my-arms-daughter in the best way possible. I will not sacrifice her for a crime.


I guess I'm speaking for my once closest friend, whose Mother did make her get an abortion.

Years later, when she had so much trouble getting pregnant when she wished to, the first one she blamed was her Mom.

I have to say that I am sure she has forgiven her now, but these types of instances don't go away by doing another thing that can also lead to down the road traumatic experiences. Either way, a full term baby who has been born even in the worst of circumstances, or an abortion, ending the life of the baby, doesn't take away all that one will have to go through for the rest of their lives.

I know that the blood of Christ can take away all sin. That's not the issue completely with me, but I can't believe that choosing abortion doesn't take away any long term effects that a rape would have on our daughters, either way the choice be made.


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« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2008, 09:46:03 PM »
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« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2008, 10:10:02 PM »
I am against abortion at all levels. I believe God can take the bad and turn it into good.

I heard a song one time that ask "what was I suppose to be?" It really made me think about all those babies, no matter how they were concieved, that were aborted. Maybe they were meant to be here to change the world, make a difference. They were never given the chance to live.

My teenage daughter became pregnant in her senior year. She almost got an abortion before she told me. She was scared how I would react. I look at my 5 year old granddaughter and thank God she changed her mind.

There is another preacher that told his story of how his mother was raped and she considered abortion. He has won many people to the Lord.

ALL things work to the good that love the Lord.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 10:34:42 PM by grace » Logged
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« Reply #48 on: January 17, 2008, 10:23:57 PM »
It might not always be murder to kill somebody.  But it's still always killing, and it's a human person getting killed.

If we pulled aside all the tricky situations, the "but she was raped" and "but he is ancephalic" and "but she is only 12" -- just take them out of the discussion --

We are still left with, like, 99% of abortions for really stupid or at least insufficient reasons.   
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« Reply #48 on: January 17, 2008, 10:23:57 PM »
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« Reply #49 on: January 17, 2008, 10:39:28 PM »
I agree that God can take the worst situations and use them for His glory.

If He can knit them in our wombs, He can mend a horrible situation that had preceeded that.

I can't help but think how young Mary was when she was an unwed Mother.
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For He (Jesus) whom God has sent utters the words of God for He gives the Spirit without measure.  John 3:34

Come near to God and He will come near to you. James 4:8

For I can do everything with the help of Christ who gives me the strength I need. Philippians 4:13
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« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2008, 11:14:35 PM »
Quote from: Jaime on January 17, 2008, 09:27:25 PM
Phoebe, I am torn on the rape and incest thing as a lot of people are, but if those situations were not in play,and it was just an inconvenient pregnancy, do you view any abortion as murder? I am not trying to be combative, because I respect your views here on the board.

Yes, I believe motive makes it murder for selfish and immature women who choose abortion as a way out of responsibility. (Men also participate in this decision and are guilty, even if passively so.)
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« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2008, 11:14:35 PM »
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« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2008, 11:19:10 PM »
Quote from: janine on January 17, 2008, 10:23:57 PM
It might not always be murder to kill somebody.  But it's still always killing, and it's a human person getting killed.

If we pulled aside all the tricky situations, the "but she was raped" and "but he is ancephalic" and "but she is only 12" -- just take them out of the discussion --

We are still left with, like, 99% of abortions for really stupid or at least insufficient reasons.   

But we can't make law that ignores the 1% who are living with horrendous situations and decisions.
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« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2008, 11:26:06 PM »
Phoebe I as a male I agree  

Males do the most horrible crimes against women and children and I ask you and others to forgive us for that.
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« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2008, 11:36:39 PM »
Quote from: memmy on January 17, 2008, 09:46:03 PM
Quote from: phoebe on January 17, 2008, 09:09:58 PM
Quote from: memmy on January 17, 2008, 09:06:54 PM
I think it is wonderful that you feel that way about your daughter Phoebe. I would feel that way about any who that would happen to.

The problem is........who speaks for the daughter inside the Mommy?

I want to help give that baby girl (or boy) a voice.

While you're fighting for a voice that doesn't yet exist, I will be fighting for the right to care for my hold-in-my-arms-daughter in the best way possible. I will not sacrifice her for a crime.


I guess I'm speaking for my once closest friend, whose Mother did make her get an abortion.

Years later, when she had so much trouble getting pregnant when she wished to, the first one she blamed was her Mom.

I have to say that I am sure she has forgiven her now, but these types of instances don't go away by doing another thing that can also lead to down the road traumatic experiences. Either way, a full term baby who has been born even in the worst of circumstances, or an abortion, ending the life of the baby, doesn't take away all that one will have to go through for the rest of their lives.

I know that the blood of Christ can take away all sin. That's not the issue completely with me, but I can't believe that choosing abortion doesn't take away any long term effects that a rape would have on our daughters, either way the choice be made.


And I can share a story with you about the daughter of a lifelong friend who made her 14 year old daughter give up her baby for adoption who feels the same kind of anger as your friend. There is no winner in these situations. Families are forever changed. But for the daughter of my friend, and I would wager for your friend, as well, we are not talking about rape. We are talking about two teenage girls who were looking for validation of worth from a teenage boy, are we not? The adoption was not for the benefit of the baby, but for the benefit of this girl and her family. I assume the abortion was for the same reasons. Neither were selfless actions.

When young teens are pregnant, it is a bad situation. When a very young teen gets pregnant because of rape or incest, it's more of a crime, than abortion is, to force this child into carrying within her own body the reminder of what happened to her, to suffer irreparable damage to her immature body for carrying and delivering this baby, and the emotional, mental, psychological and spiritual trauma that follows. It is a killing in itself. It would be heart-wrenching to make such a decision to abort. But I would do so to save my daughter.

I just don't see it as so cut-and-dried that I can say all abortion is murder. All killing is not murder. We see a clear difference in Scripture. Motive separates the two. I think the same can be said re: abortion. Who decides what that motive is? Government? I shudder at the thought. That is a judgment that belongs solely in the hands of a just and merciful God, and not in the courtrooms of America.
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« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2008, 11:56:23 PM »
A coming child is the one and only bright thing in the dark situation of rape/incest.  Killing the baby solves nothing re: the incest or rape.
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« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2008, 11:56:23 PM »
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« Reply #55 on: January 18, 2008, 04:50:10 AM »
Some more links for anyone who wants to educate themselves on this issue.

A Biblical Perspective on Abortion
http://eadshome.com/BibleandAbortion.htm

http://www.abortionfacts.com/

Abortion and the Bible
http://www.abortion-and-bible.com/#excuses

The Bible and Abortion
http://www.bible.ca/s-Abortion.htm

Life before birth (answers to pro choice claims)
http://www.christiananswers.net/life/

--------------------------------------------------These next two are posts I made with links

Often you'll here people mention the psychological trauma of carrying a child to term vs. the very simple procedure of an abortion.

Here are your real options.

Psychological trauma of carrying a child to term vs. the psychological and physical traumas of an abortion.

read the rest here

The real choice
http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?t=64398

Included within...

PSYCHOLOGICAL REACTIONS REPORTED AFTER ABORTION (one of many examples)
http://members.aol.com/poesgirl/survey2.htm

-------------

Abortion was never needed
http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?t=64399

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« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2008, 07:58:19 AM »
Quote from: phoebe on January 17, 2008, 11:14:35 PM
Quote from: Jaime on January 17, 2008, 09:27:25 PM
Phoebe, I am torn on the rape and incest thing as a lot of people are, but if those situations were not in play,and it was just an inconvenient pregnancy, do you view any abortion as murder? I am not trying to be combative, because I respect your views here on the board.

Yes, I believe motive makes it murder for selfish and immature women who choose abortion as a way out of responsibility. (Men also participate in this decision and are guilty, even if passively so.)


Yes, by all means I agree that men (boyfriends, immature husbands, overbearing fathers etc.) may well be the instigators of most abortions. It is such an un-motherly instinct thing to do, it has to be outside influence or fears.
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« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2008, 08:17:20 AM »
Quote from: janine on January 17, 2008, 11:56:23 PM
A coming child is the one and only bright thing in the dark situation of rape/incest.  Killing the baby solves nothing re: the incest or rape.

I agree.  The person needing killing is the rapist or the person guilty of incest, not an innocent new life.
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« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2008, 08:17:20 AM »
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« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2008, 09:10:02 AM »
Admin and Dave -- You both make excellent points.  I apologize for derailing the thread earlier.

Phoebe -- I tend to agree with your pov.  The life that is in the here and now comes first, imo.

All -- Abortion should never be used as a means of birth control.  Unfortunately, iirc, something like 80 to 90 percent of abortions in the US are used for that exact purpose.  The good news--if there can be any found in this distressing topic--is that a report out yesterday indicates that the abortion rate continues to fall in this country.  The decline is being attributed to stricter state laws.  However, the abortion rate fell at record levels throughout the 1990s without such restrictions.  I figure the declining rate probably has more to do with the widespread availability and de-stigmatizing of birth control than anything else.  Whatever the cause, it is reason for those of us who are anti-abortion to find hope.
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« Reply #59 on: January 18, 2008, 09:36:07 AM »
Quote from: janine on January 17, 2008, 11:56:23 PM
A coming child is the one and only bright thing in the dark situation of rape/incest.  Killing the baby solves nothing re: the incest or rape.

Aborting could save the physical life, as well as the mental, emotional and spiritual life and health of that young girl. Forcing her to give birth can be life-long devastating. Giving birth to that child cannot save her from those things, but it could destroy her.
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