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Offline Johnb

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Caucus worst political experience of my life
« on: Sat Mar 17, 2012 - 15:13:53 »
I attended the republican county caucus in my county here in MO.  I think it turned this life long republican into an independent.  I feel like I have been in a back room democrat meeting.  The platform was basically set with amendments invited.  That part was OK.  However, when it came to delegates there was a plat of delegates predetermined and no nominations from the floor and no additional individuals could be nominated.  Speakers were allowed for 2 minutes in favor of their candidate.  But then we found out that the delegates were not bound to any candidate.  So I voted in the MO primary but my vote did not count for any candidate and now I have voted in a caucus where my vote did not count for any candidate.  Our system is broke.  Everything was predetermined and we were just there for window dressing.  No wonder we have the mess we do.

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Caucus worst political experience of my life
« on: Sat Mar 17, 2012 - 15:13:53 »

Alfred Combes

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #1 on: Sat Mar 17, 2012 - 15:35:21 »
Repubs are taking us down the same path as Dems.  Only a little slower.

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #1 on: Sat Mar 17, 2012 - 15:35:21 »

larry2

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #2 on: Sat Mar 17, 2012 - 15:38:33 »

I attended the republican county caucus in my county here in MO.  I think it turned this life long republican into an independent.  I feel like I have been in a back room democrat meeting.  The platform was basically set with amendments invited.  That part was OK.  However, when it came to delegates there was a plat of delegates predetermined and no nominations from the floor and no additional individuals could be nominated.  Speakers were allowed for 2 minutes in favor of their candidate.  But then we found out that the delegates were not bound to any candidate.  So I voted in the MO primary but my vote did not count for any candidate and now I have voted in a caucus where my vote did not count for any candidate.  Our system is broke.  Everything was predetermined and we were just there for window dressing.  No wonder we have the mess we do.


Get Jaime to go with you next time; he'll show you how God makes His selection by using your vote. ::whistle::

Offline Johnb

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #3 on: Sat Mar 17, 2012 - 16:54:43 »
Repubs are taking us down the same path as Dems.  Only a little slower.


Something we agree on.

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #3 on: Sat Mar 17, 2012 - 16:54:43 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline Johnb

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #4 on: Sat Mar 17, 2012 - 19:56:31 »
Folks here know I am not a Ron Paul supporter.  However, I have to compliment them on their effort.  They worked hard to get their plat of delegates voted in and it was clear they were going to vote for RP.  By the end of the caucus I was almost ready to join them.  At least I would know who they were going to vote for.  It is time for we the people to stand up and say we are mad as h**l and are not going to take it any more.  We need term limits and a balanced budget amendment.  Perhaps then we might have a chance of getting public servants instead of career politicians.

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #4 on: Sat Mar 17, 2012 - 19:56:31 »



Offline Jaime

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #5 on: Sat Mar 17, 2012 - 20:47:50 »

I attended the republican county caucus in my county here in MO.  I think it turned this life long republican into an independent.  I feel like I have been in a back room democrat meeting.  The platform was basically set with amendments invited.  That part was OK.  However, when it came to delegates there was a plat of delegates predetermined and no nominations from the floor and no additional individuals could be nominated.  Speakers were allowed for 2 minutes in favor of their candidate.  But then we found out that the delegates were not bound to any candidate.  So I voted in the MO primary but my vote did not count for any candidate and now I have voted in a caucus where my vote did not count for any candidate.  Our system is broke.  Everything was predetermined and we were just there for window dressing.  No wonder we have the mess we do.


Get Jaime to go with you next time; he'll show you how God makes His selection by using your vote. ::whistle::

I'll show him how the devil makes his selection with your non vote.

Offline Johnb

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #6 on: Sat Mar 17, 2012 - 21:27:07 »
I will still vote for the most electable conservative in the race.  I just see no difference in "We have to pass the bill to see what is in it.."  and we have to elect these pre selected delegates to see who they will vote for.  Breeds mistrust.

Offline Jett22

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #7 on: Sat Mar 17, 2012 - 22:14:55 »
Hmm so us RPers might not be so nuts after all?

Here is the GOP insiders ignoring "We the People".

This is happening all over.  They called in the cops to try and keep people from recording their underhanded tactics.  They break their own rules in order to thwart their own party members from having any influence on the process.

Small | Large


Tons more of this stuff out there....


Offline Jaime

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #8 on: Sun Mar 18, 2012 - 07:22:12 »
From what I've seen caucuses are totally ridiculous and useless in my opinion. The turnout is usually a miniscule percentage. A state primary is the only way to go. Heck in some of these state caucuses, the turnout for the entire state could fit inside a medium sized college basketball stadium. Just put the folks on a ballot and let the people vote. Of course in Caucus states RP tends to do better probably because of the passion they have. Still, the nomination process should be my vofe added to all the other votes, not a WWF hollerin' contest among 1/100th of the electorate.

Offline Johnb

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #9 on: Sun Mar 18, 2012 - 08:36:45 »
jaime
What happened in MO was they tried like other states to move up their primary and would lose half their delegate like FL.  The state legislature failed to act in time so they came up with the caucus.  I would rather have cast my vote for half a delegate than not have a vote.  It is funny how when a tea party conservative speaks out against Dem abuses they are expressing free speech.  When I spoke out against the party establishment of my own party I was branded as an antagonistic malcontent.

Jett 22
Yes I do understand what I have branded as paranoid on the part of RP supporters has some truth to it.  I must compliment the RP supporters they studied the process and made every effort to get their votes counted and had a "plat" of delegates ready.  (You could not vote for an individual delegate only a complete plat that had been put together a month before the caucus and they were not bound to any candidate) 
I am now an independent and will never again trust any political party.  I will be part of a peaceful revolution to win back the right to govern myself.  Yes I would even consider becoming a Ron Paul type militant. 

It is sad that after almost 30 years of putting my life on the line for my country I was denied the right to cast a simple vote for the candidate of my choice.     

Offline Jaime

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #10 on: Sun Mar 18, 2012 - 11:52:49 »
Which is why a primary is the only way to go. It seems that all of the states should have primaries on one day. This wrangling for an earlier day is ridiculous. A caucus is simply a shouting match, similar to being on the floor of the New York stock exchange. Put all the candidates on a statewide ballot, have an election and count the votes. I don't get cacuses, they are breeding grounds for exactly what people complain about them. Heck if Texas had a caucus, Jaime the defender of the vote would probably decline to participate. I've already participated in my share of snot slinging free for alls.

It is somewhat ironic that Ron Paul does much better in caucus states. Maybe his supporters are better snot slingers.
« Last Edit: Sun Mar 18, 2012 - 12:01:59 by Jaime »

Offline Johnb

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #11 on: Sun Mar 18, 2012 - 12:54:51 »
Several debates then a real super Tuesday nation wide.  I can go for that.

Actually RP supporters do well in the caucus states because they understand that it is a political game of trying to out slick the other guy .  They learn the rules and play the game that IMO they do not like any better than the rest of us.

Offline Jett22

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #12 on: Sun Mar 18, 2012 - 15:51:54 »
Which is why a primary is the only way to go. It seems that all of the states should have primaries on one day. This wrangling for an earlier day is ridiculous. A caucus is simply a shouting match, similar to being on the floor of the New York stock exchange. Put all the candidates on a statewide ballot, have an election and count the votes. I don't get cacuses, they are breeding grounds for exactly what people complain about them. Heck if Texas had a caucus, Jaime the defender of the vote would probably decline to participate. I've already participated in my share of snot slinging free for alls.

It is somewhat ironic that Ron Paul does much better in caucus states. Maybe his supporters are better snot slingers.


Oh yes, the establishment would love to have only primaries, especially with electronic voting machines.  Makes it SOO much easier to cheat.

Do you realize that all the state delegates will be chosen  (I'm District 8, so April 21st ) in Texas before you cast your primary vote on May 29th?  They will be bound for 1 round at the National Convention.  The state convention is in Fort Worth, and if all goes as planned I'll be there as a delegate.

Johnb,

Where you at the St. Charles caucus?  If so here is a write up from an attendee.

 http://www.facebook.com/notes/bryce-steinhoff/st-charles-caucus-hijacked-bryces-report/10151403261700626

That sound about right?  (assuming that was where you caucused)

Offline Jaime

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #13 on: Sun Mar 18, 2012 - 16:03:55 »
We've got to trust some part of the electronic version since that is how most votes are counted im the general electio. I don't want our leaders chosen by whoever can shout loudest like on the floor of the stock exchange. Or we could just have a national arm wrestling comtest.
« Last Edit: Mon Mar 19, 2012 - 17:03:05 by Jaime »

Offline Jett22

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #14 on: Sun Mar 18, 2012 - 16:12:01 »
We've got to trust some part of the electronic version since that is how most vots are counted im the general electio. I don't wamt our leaders cjosen by whoever can shout loudest like on the floor of the stock exchang. Or we could just have a national atm wrestling comtest.


That's silly.  No one is advocating selection of delegates by shouting contest.  The shouting is in response to the chairman violating the rules and self-appointing a new chairman.  The shouting is because the GOP officials are IGNORING the will of the caucus.

They are demanding no video, so there is no proof of them cheating.  Yeah, sure we can trust them with an electronic vote that gives "ZERO" transparency.   ::frown::

Here is more video of blatant fraud by the GOP, this in Georgia.

Small | Large

Offline Jaime

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #15 on: Sun Mar 18, 2012 - 16:49:08 »
Jett, the caucus process IS a shouting contest. Voting is exactly how the general election is done. If we have been satisfied with vote counting in the general, it can be achieved in the primaries. No, caucuses are silly.
« Last Edit: Sun Mar 18, 2012 - 20:04:07 by Jaime »

Offline Johnb

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #16 on: Sun Mar 18, 2012 - 17:12:57 »
Jamie
you are right at their best a caucus is a very poor process.

Jett
No I was not at the St Charles one but know about it.  Actually the RP supporters were very civil at the one I attended and almost pulled off an upset.

Offline Jett22

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #17 on: Mon Mar 19, 2012 - 08:02:38 »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #18 on: Mon Mar 19, 2012 - 08:32:49 »
I don't decry what Ron Paul supporters have done. I think they have done an outstanding job. I just don't believe the caucus process is good process. In the states it is used, it is a miniscule percentage of the total GOP voters. Active and engaged yes, but not a good sampling. Even in the most civil and gentlemenly occasions, they are in large part a shouting contest. I am in no way in favor of a small percentage of people gathering and "deciding" who the winner is. It should be exactly like the general election. Caucuses are as outdated as the Electoral College.

Nothing manipulative about a straight up vote, a single national primary after one or two debates, early on. The majority would have no occasion to oppress. The current hodge podge of state contests with rules that vary across the board are the problem, winner take all, winner shares half, winner gets most, prorata sharing, states get half because they moved up their event. It's nuts. Not to mention that Iowa and New Hampshire, two relatively small and insignifican states get to set the momentum. That doesn't make sense. No way should 6,000 or 7,000 corn farmers  or 3000 or 4000 maple syrup farmers get to decide in their shouting matches in high school gyms who the national front runner is. It should be a single day for the nation. Of course I know the media wouldn't like that, but who cares?
« Last Edit: Mon Mar 19, 2012 - 08:41:55 by Jaime »

Offline Johnb

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #19 on: Mon Mar 19, 2012 - 08:52:35 »
Yep.  Debate for long enough to know the candidates then one nation wide vote.  But then it would not take a billion dollars and selling of a candidates soul to the money wagon. 

Offline Jaime

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #20 on: Mon Mar 19, 2012 - 10:00:22 »
The present system has got to cost the Equivalent of the GDP of several moderately sized countries. And as I said we have a few thousand corn farmers establishing a "front runner".
« Last Edit: Tue Mar 20, 2012 - 06:21:15 by Jaime »

larry2

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #21 on: Mon Mar 19, 2012 - 10:35:48 »

Yep.  Debate for long enough to know the candidates then one nation wide vote.  But then it would not take a billion dollars and selling of a candidates soul to the money wagon.
 

Are you suggesting there is a politician that hasn't already done that? ::pondering::

Offline Johnb

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #22 on: Mon Mar 19, 2012 - 15:37:38 »
Nope.  None that I know of that is why we need the change to get non professional politicians in and short enough term limits so they don't become professional extortionists oh I mean politicians.

Offline Johnb

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #23 on: Tue Mar 20, 2012 - 07:02:51 »
Here is another thing to cut off the money tree.  Make being a lobbist a federal offence with a manatory 10 year sentence.

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #24 on: Tue Mar 20, 2012 - 10:11:17 »
We've got to trust some part of the electronic version since that is how most votes are counted im the general electio. I don't want our leaders chosen by whoever can shout loudest like on the floor of the stock exchange. Or we could just have a national arm wrestling comtest.

ISTM that parties should decide however they want to decide their nominee is and completely foot the bill for it.  There is no reason for taxpayer funded primaries and there is no reason any party should get their candidate's name pre-printed on the November election ballots.  You'd have to keyboard in the name and address for each candidate for each elected spot.  And you should have to show ID to vote.  if you can't spell let that be a lesson to you the cost of being ignorant.  Also, the election day would be changed to the same day tax returns are due.  That would be the start to how I would fix it. 

Offline Captain Shays

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #25 on: Tue Mar 20, 2012 - 16:04:38 »
I would never support electronic voting machines unless there was a paper back up to go along with it. Even then I would have trouble trusting them because of how easy it is to game the system. There is just way too much evidence of tampering, or even potential tampering for any rational person of integrity to trust them.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #26 on: Tue Mar 20, 2012 - 16:56:13 »
If we can't thoroughly and trustworthily poll the populace to select a leader, then we are a nation to be pitied. If picture ID is too intrusive, then we have no hope. If a dependable and fraud proof means of counting can't be devised, then we have no hope.

Offline Captain Shays

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #27 on: Tue Mar 20, 2012 - 18:20:45 »
If we can't thoroughly and trustworthily poll the populace to select a leader, then we are a nation to be pitied. If picture ID is too intrusive, then we have no hope. If a dependable and fraud proof means of counting can't be devised, then we have no hope.

We need to change it because from what I have seen so far in this primary season is a lot of fraud. Votes thrown out. Votes mis counted. Votes not counted.

The worst part is the media's influence over the whoe thing but maybe that should be another thread because it's that bad

Offline Johnb

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #28 on: Wed Mar 21, 2012 - 20:16:40 »
Capt.
Hope you are not saying that caucus is the way to go.  If so I want to know what you have been smoking. ::smile::

Offline Captain Shays

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #29 on: Mon Mar 26, 2012 - 15:11:17 »
Capt.
Hope you are not saying that caucus is the way to go.  If so I want to know what you have been smoking. ::smile::

Last I checked I ain't smoke'in nutt'in :)

I do think the caucus method can protect us from direct democracy and you should know that our system does need protecting from democracy. It's the worst of alll worlds.
We should also fight tooth and nail to keep the electoral college in place for the same reason.

IF we don't then the people who are subject to lobbyiests, monied interests, media influence, peer pressure, propaganda, lies and trends will control the outcome of every election. Thos are usually the ones who reside in large population centers like LA, NYC, Philly, Detriot, Chicago etc. The people on the outskirts will lose out every time as a result and have no representation.

We see it today during this campaign. People who get their information from mainstream media constructs usually vote for the candidate that the media portrays as having the best chance to win (according to the media of course) while they black out the ones the elites and the media don't want us to know about.

The ONLY way to break up the monopoly of the two party crimocracy or at least keep the suckers honest is to be involved, and informed.

They thrive on a dumbed down, ill informed and un-involved electorate.

I hold the media equally complicit in the ruin on this country because they keep promoting only the candidates who favor the same paradign. Federal Reserve controls of our money supply. Internationalism through trans-national "trade agreements" that transfer our production base to third world countries and diminish our sovereignty as a nation. Membership in the United Nations which presides over EVERY trans-national orginization whether World Bank, IMF, WTO, NAFTA, CAFTA, SPP, or the EU. They all favor the IRS (I Represent Satan) which arbitrarily takes our money to give to the international bankers of the Federal Reserve to pay tem interest on money they created out of thin air to begin with. They ALL favor policing the world, and engaging in wars that have nothing to do with protection of our freedom or our country. They also favor the candidates who think nothing of taking away our freedoms either in big chunks like the Patriot Act or NDAA but incrementally via passive legislation many times wrapped in bills that would seem unrelated to a rational mind.

Meanwhile they ignore or marginalize ALL opposing views that don't support the globalist agenda.


This should all be both alarming and encouraging to Christians. Alarming because  we see the fullfillment of prophesies that will culminate in the persecution of end times Saints. Encouraging because it will usher in the return of our Savior.

As for me and my house we will not support their agenda in any way shape or form either by voting for one of Satan's candidates or by supporting any part of their agenda.

I know. I know. Pretty strong language. Radical right? "Satan's candidates" ? Huh?

YES! Candidates who are working either knowingly or un-knowingly. Whether directly or indirectly to bring about Satan's plan for the establishment of the one world system (governmental and cashless financial).

IT"S NOT GOD"S PLAN. Jesus WILL destroy the one world government. The antichrist will emerge through the one world government and murder our brethern.

EVERY ONE of the candidates (except for Ron Paul) is in favor of the steps, the plans, the policies and positions that are helping to establish the New World order

I don't care if they proclaim God from the highest hill. I don't care if they say they are "pro life". I don't care if they will fight Obama.

We're being LIED to and I hold the media as responsible as any corrupt politician.

Offline Johnb

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Re: Caucus worst political experience of my life
« Reply #30 on: Mon Mar 26, 2012 - 17:26:26 »
Convinced you have been smoking or chewing something. ::smile::  I said nothing about a direct democracy just want my vote to count.  Already said lobbyist should be a federal crime.  There are plenty of ways to take the money and corruption out of the system without resorting to a communist type system.  Even if you don't realize it that is what you want a few "informed folks" making decisions for the rest of us.  But I understand because that is the only way to get a Ron Paul elected.   ::tippinghat::

 

     
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