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Communism vs. Christianity
« on: August 31, 2007, 09:41:19 AM »
This topic originally branched from another topic that led to discussion of communism and Christianity. The post that began the change in topic asked why anyone would want a person in office who would implement socialistic/communistic policies. The new topic is in progress below.

Who would want a demoncrat in office anyway?

Those who want a communist/socialist government that robs us of our income in order to fund the growth and control of the government over our lives. Most people who think they want that don't realize that's what it is, they just think that the government should be the ONE to provide everything for them as if they are children. What they don't realize is that this takes away freedom and leaves them at the mercy of the government. And thus we go back in time to the days of controlling kings, dictators and other life controlling forms of government that demand the peasants thank them for "taking care" of them. Remember Robin Hood fighting against the king for "taxing the heart and soul out of England"? Yeah...that kind of thing.

Others want the government to control everything because they think that just because it's got the "government" stamp on it means it will be great. You know...like those other great government programs.

 ::aloneinclearlogic::

It kind of reminds me of when Israel thought they wanted a king like all the other countries. God said it was a bad idea, but Israel wanted to be like all those other "modern" countries. Sounds just like today when our people say that Canada, Europe...whatever has government-run healthcare and are adding to the "government-run" list every day. And "it's just so wonderful."

Sounds again like the Israelites wanting to go back to Egypt and settle for much less quality of life because "at least there they had something to eat" you know....while they were slaves to the Egyptian government that was "taking care" of them.

I think it's funny when people talk about Cuba and how wonderful it is because the government controls....uh...I mean....funds everything. And yet Cubans risk their lives by floating on an old door across the ocean to get here. Why would they do that? After all, communist Cuba is just so freakin' awesome! Michael Moore tells us so.

Don't fall for it. The more aspects of our lives controlled by any government, the less freedom we have.
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Communism vs. Christianity
« on: August 31, 2007, 09:41:19 AM »

navyvet

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Communism and Christianity
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2007, 02:18:17 PM »
Who would want a demoncrat in office anyway?

Those who want a communist/socialist government that robs us of our income in order to fund the growth and control of the government over our lives.
This reminds me of my favorite Mitchell Trio song:

Oh, we're meetin' at the courthouse at eight o'clock tonight
You just walk in the door and take the first turn to the right
Be careful when you get there, we hate to be bereft
But we're taking down the names of everybody turning left

Oh, we're the John Birch Society, the John Birch Society
Here to save our country from a communistic plot
Join the John Birch Society, help us fill the ranks
To get this movement started we need lots of tools and cranks

Now there's no one that we're certain the Kremlin doesn't touch
We think that Westbrook Pegler doth protest a bit too much
We only hail the hero from whom we got our name
We're not sure what he did but he's our hero just the same

Oh, we're the John Birch Society, the John Birch Society
Socialism is the ism dismalest of all
Join the John Birch Society, there's so much to do
Have you heard they're serving vodka at the WCTU?

Well you've heard about the agents that we've already named
Well MPA has agents that are flauntedly unashamed
We're after Rosie Clooney, we've gotten Pinkie Lee
And the day we get Red Skelton won't that be a victory

Oh we're the John Birch Society, the John Birch Society
Norman Vincent Peale may think he's kidding us along
But the John Birch Society knows he spilled the beans
He keeps on preaching brotherhood, but we know what he means

We'll teach you how to spot 'em in the cities or the sticks
For even Jasper Junction is just full of Bolsheviks
The CIA's subversive and so's the FCC
There's no one left but thee and we, and we're not sure of thee

Oh, we're the John Birch Society, the John Birch Society
Here to save our country from a communistic plot
Join the John Birch Society holding off the Reds
We'll use our hand and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads

Do you want Justice Warren for your Commissar?
Do you want Mrs. Krushchev in there with the DAR?
You cannot trust your neighbor or even next of kin
If mommie is a commie then you gotta turn her in

Oh, we're the John Birch Society, the John Birch Society
Fighting for the right to fight the right fight for the Right
Join the John Birch Society as we're marching on
And we'll all be glad to see you when we're meeting in the John
The John, the John Birch So- ci- i- teee
« Last Edit: September 03, 2007, 09:41:01 AM by admin »

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Communism and Christianity
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2007, 02:18:17 PM »

Offline don has a plan

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RE: Communism and Christianity
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2007, 02:37:24 PM »
The Communist paranoia on this board is frightening.  Goodness -- It's 2007.  Communist paranoia ended before the Cold War did. 

This reminds me of the evolution discussions on one of the other boards. 
« Last Edit: September 03, 2007, 09:41:24 AM by admin »
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RE: Communism and Christianity
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2007, 03:50:35 PM »
The Communist paranoia on this board is frightening.  Goodness -- It's 2007.  Communist paranoia ended before the Cold War did. 

This reminds me of the evolution discussions on one of the other boards. 

First of all, how can you say "The Communist paranoia on this board is frightening"? Why "frightening." You could have said silly or extreme but what about the fact that lots of people don't want communism frightens you? I wash my hands with antibacterial soap, does that mean I'm paranoid of bacteria? I don't mean to frighten you or anything. I'm just trying to prevent bacteria from invading my body and taking over. The same thing applies to my caution when it comes to socialistic/communistic candidates for President.

You can say we're paranoid all you want, but that doesn't take away from the fact that our government marches toward it as more and more of tax dollars are being spent on new government programs. And then Democrats want to raise taxes to pay for more government programs. Before you know it, the government will be in complete control of money and will control even more of our lives. There's nothing paranoid about not wanting to march toward that and not wanting to elect candidates who support that. The way to prevent communism is to prevent pro-communism/socialistic candidates from being elected so that they can't put communist/socialist policies in place. The time to act is BEFORE not AFTER.

That's not being paranoid. Would it have been paranoid to speak out against Stalin or Marx before they gained power? No, it would have saved a lot of people from a life-sucking communist government.

Communism takes control by convincing the people that the government can solve all their problems and take care of them. Once convinced of that, the people will hand over power and money to the government. I'd rather seem paranoid than allow that to happen. And what's scary is that many people are convinced the government should act as a communist one based on what they want the government to do and control....until you explain to them that that is communism and holds people back, takes away freedom and allows for dictatorship, control, etc.  I'm not being paranoid. I'm a concerned citizen who doesn't want a socialist/communist government. You're welcome.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2007, 09:41:46 AM by admin »
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RE: Communism and Christianity
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2007, 03:50:35 PM »
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Offline kanham

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RE: Communism and Christianity
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2007, 07:38:27 AM »
Unless something has changed communism is not the enemy and health care isn't the problem, Satan is.

If communism is so evil and such a harsh thing for Christians to allow why is the church growing in a communist country?

Yes, Israel wanted to be governed by man, doesn't seem to me to be any different then the church wanting to be governed by Republicans.

The other myth I see perpetuated on this thread is the idea that Republicans are for smaller government. It would seem they love to spend just as much, they just prefer to cut taxes and spend.

In the end it would seem to me that the only difference between either party is who gets the money when they are in power. 
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RE: Communism and Christianity
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2007, 07:38:27 AM »



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RE: Communism and Christianity
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2007, 07:52:22 AM »
Any political system will work (communism, socialism, democracy, empire dictatorship) as long as there are good leaders who put the people needs first.

The problem is that the leaders are not good and the people needs take a back seat to personal power and glory.

I vote republican because their agenda takes into consideration people like me.  The demon-crates have nothing to offer people like me.

I am not a minority
I am not a homosexual
I am against abortion
I believe in the freedom of religion
I believe in the right to keep and bear arms
I understand that diplomacy prevents war it doesn't win war.

The demon-crates have nothing to offer so why vote for them?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2007, 09:42:34 AM by admin »
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When the economy fails and all freedom is gone and the USA becomes a socialist waste land,  DON'T BLAME ME!  I didn't vote for Obama.

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RE: Communism and Christianity
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2007, 11:17:28 AM »

If communism is so evil and such a harsh thing for Christians to allow why is the church growing in a communist country?


Communism IS an evil and harsh thing, and Christianity is flourishing in Communist China not because Communism is so tolerant or wonderful but because the Gospel is so powerful and succeeds in spite of an evil regime. Has nothing to do WITH Communism, but everything to do WITH the GOSPEL AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2007, 09:42:53 AM by admin »
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RE: Communism and Christianity
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2007, 05:37:37 PM »
I'm with Jaime, here.  Communist governments persecute Christians.   Fortunately, the gospel prospers under persecution.  As things get worse there in the states, it will hopefully prosper more.

KP
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RE: Communism and Christianity
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2007, 08:24:03 PM »
The reason that communism has been harsh to Christianity is because a communist government must prevent as much free thinking and global communication as possible. Take the former communist part of Germany. They weren't allowed to see the free side of Germany. Weren't allowed to go over there or their government would punish them. Why? Because they'd see the potential of a free people. In a documentary I heard a German man say that if someone did go to the free side of Germany (on the other side of the wall) and came back that he would be miserable because he would realize what he was missing.

Yes, we all know Satan is the problem. That doesn't mean that we stop arresting criminals and blame it all on Satan. Just like it doesn't mean that we just have a "whatever" attitude when it comes to government.

Communism is usually intolerant of all religion--period. That means Christianity, Buddism, Islam, you name it.  A communist government has to have the people looking at them as a god. After all, a communist government basically decides what people do in terms of career, in terms of where they live and how much money they "live on." Throwing a "god" in there places them at number two in place of authority and prominence in a citizens life and might lead to a rebelion.

And before the arguments start popping in about the early church and how they shared everything thus, they were communistic...a few observations.

1. It's funny to me that usually the ones who bring that up are the very ones who don't want any religion in government. Yet they act as though what the early church did should be an example of how our government is run.

2. The early church was not communistic. People still had their jobs and CHOSE to give their money. They retained that right. No government or church leader forced them to do anything. THEY were free and held the authority over what they did with their money and they wanted to give it to the church. That would most certainly NOT BE ALLOWED by a communist government--yet another thing that starves religion out. The Bible says that the early church gave money to Paul and other teachers so that they could go out into the world and teach. Illegal in a communist government.

My final thought is this. China has been adding elements of free-market (a.k.a. Capitalism) into their country for years. More and more. Why? Because it works. It leads to better products because people are motivated to make their lives better or great by inventing, building, producing or doing something that people want and need. It's freedom and it works because people are free to follow their passions without the government getting in the way. Our founding fathers wanted us to be free and I'm always shocked at people who discuss this and act as though it wouldn't bother them if suddenly America became a communist nation. They just don't know what they are saying and don't realize that they would lose the very right to even talk about the "form" of government in this country. They don't realize that they would lose the "pursuit of happiness" because their career and most of their life would be decided for them by an almighty government that has absolute power without any say so of the people. If you didn't like a leader you couldn't vote him out or vote someone else in. In a communist government, you have no say so and no representation. And religion would be outlawed as history has shown and even to this day communist countries by large outlaw all religion (unless it happens to be the leader's) because of the points mentioned above.

Cherish freedom as a gift and be watchful of politicians who tell you that if you just give them more money the could take better care of you. That's how it starts and all of a sudden when the people realize their money is mostly ALL in the hands of the government, the government is at a point of no return and has no plans of telling you that they've fixed the "problems" and now you can start keeping more of your money again. No...then they start telling you that they are the hand that feeds you and if you want to eat this month you'd better not question them.

But it all starts small and I think we'd be responsible stewards of our nation and countrymen if we were watchful, cautious and protective of our freedom.
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Offline kanham

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Communism and Christianity
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2007, 08:39:51 AM »
I think if I’m not mistaken the idea was that we defend Christ not capitalism, maybe I’ve got that one wrong.

“Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
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Communism and Christianity
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2007, 09:01:21 AM »
Oh give me a break. Talk about a red herring! If we were talking about a football team and you were defending one team as being better than another, I guess I could say, "I think if I’m not mistaken the idea was that we defend Christ not a football team, maybe I’ve got that one wrong."

 ::sarcasm::

The fact is that we can talk about all kinds of different topics. Sports, cars, plants, politics, relationships, music, video games, movies and if you started to talk good about one I could get onto you for not praising Christ instead. God made us with the capacity to enjoy life and to reason and think. There's nothing wrong with prefferring a form of government over another and I happen to prefer the kind where I'm free. It shocks me to think that anyone would want it another way seeing as how people from communists countries float across the ocean on old doors and driftwood just to come here--to the land of opportunity--and escape their communist oppressor.

Capitalism is simply a free market where people are FREE to choose their own financial paths and to buy what they want. Sure some people get rich at it. Many used to be dirt poor and worked their way into riches. It's sinful for you to covet what they have.

Are you saying you want communism in America?

Secondly, please stop saying that it's "Satan that's the problem" or that we should be better Christians by blah, blah, blah. That's like someone walking into your house with a weapon and telling you to hand over all your money and your children and then telling you that you ought to be more faithful to God and realize that these things don't matter and that Satan is the real problem--not them. So just hand it over and quit whining.

This is a discussion forum. We talk about all kinds of different things and some of those things require more than a "Satan is the problem answer" or "Jesus" as the answer. Jesus is the answer to many, many things, but some topics--like who is going to win the game Saturday--do not have Him as the answer to that particular question. And unless you want to give up all hobbies, thoughts, discussion and possessions that don't directly discuss God at that moment, then please stop trying to act like I'm less spiritual because I'm having a discussion about government (or anything else for that matter).
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Offline Bon Voyage

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Communism and Christianity
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2007, 09:03:29 AM »
Oh give me a break. Talk about a red herring! If we were talking about a football team and you were defending one team as being better than another, I guess I could say, "I think if I’m not mistaken the idea was that we defend Christ not a football team, maybe I’ve got that one wrong."

::rollseyes::

The fact is that we can talk about all kinds of different topics. Sports, cars, plants, politics, relationships, music, video games, movies and if you started to talk good about one I could get onto you for not praising Christ instead. God made us with the capacity to enjoy life and to reason and think. There's nothing wrong with prefferring a form of government over another and I happen to prefer the kind where I'm free. It shocks me to think that anyone would want it another way seeing as how people from communists countries float across the ocean on old doors and driftwood just to come here--to the land of opportunity--and escape their communist oppressor.

Capitalism is simply a free market where people are FREE to choose their own financial paths and to buy what they want. Sure some people get rich at it. Many used to be dirt poor and worked their way into riches. It's sinful for you to covet what they have.

Are you saying you want communism in America?

I don't want it, but it may be good for the church.  The church seems to flourish under persecution.
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Communism and Christianity
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2007, 09:06:29 AM »
Gary,

The church still has the strongest presence in America that it has ever had anywhere in history. It might be in decline now, but if you just want sheer numbers, the church has thrived under freedom. We are the reason it is in decline now--mostly because we are trying to become a socialist government and take God/religion out of everything. And we are so obsessed with being politically correct (another socialist trait) that we don't attempt to lead others to Jesus (at least not like Christians used to) because we're afraid of appearing judgmental and politically incorrect  (ah, that government control thing has already seeped in).

As Jaime said, Christianity has done fairly well in spite of communism and oppressive governments, the oppressive government doesn't cause Christianity to do well. Again, I'd point you to the number of Christians in America versus communist countries. The message of Christ is able to work in any kind of government/society, but if it was made illegal and the opportunities to reach people were taken away from us by a government, obviously we'd have fewer tools and opportunities to reach the lost. Socialism has nearly wiped Christianity out in Europe and it will do the same thing in America if we allow it.

Sure, Christianity is making strides in China, but because it is illegal, there are millions of people who are NOT hearing the gospel message that could be if the people were free. So lets not kid ourselves or try to spin the idea that somehow communism would help Christianity.
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Re: Communism and Christianity
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2007, 09:43:09 AM »
The Apostle Paul was all too familiar with persecution.  This was his advice to the young church...

"I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone--for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth."  I Tim. 2:1-4, NIV

(And, btw, I've worked in barely-out-of-Communism former Soviet Union [1995-97] and I can tell you that communism did them no favors.  While there were underground churches during the 70 year stint, Christianity spread most after communism ended, not during.)
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Re: Communism and Christianity
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2007, 10:00:10 AM »
In my humble opinion the church in America might benefit from more persecution being directed against us.  Those who are lukewarm or hanging on to the coattails of the church for the wrong reason would leave and then the only ones left would be the true believers who would then be able to grow more deeply, produce more fruit without dealing with the problems of those with wrong motives, and cooperate with Christ in his mission more fully realizing that we won't always have an opportunity to spread the story of the glory of Jesus Christ.
He was despised and forsaken of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; like one from whom men hide their face; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.  Surely our griefs He Himself bore, and our sorrows He carried; yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.  But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed.