Dunamite,

I was reading the other day about wealthy people and how their minds work. The story interviewed millionaires and there were several things that stuck out including that they were often times working several jobs instead of just one, that they were self motivated instead of waiting to be told what to do, and, oddly enough, the majority of the "super wealthy" (I don't remember the number for this but Bill Gates and Warren Buffet were both on the list) came from very poor families. The rich did not "look after them." According to the story, they knew what it was like to do without and worked harder than the average person to make sure they had plenty.

Secondly, you talk about the rich looking after their own as if it's a bad thing. If I work all my life to earn money (and regardless of what anyone says, the vast majority of the time a large income takes a large amount of work)... but if I work all my life to earn money, I have every right to do what I want with it because I traded part of my life, time and effort for it. If I want to give it to my children, grandchildren or friend==that's my right. You can call it "looking after your own," but what parent would not feed their child or want to have in inheritance for them? The Bible talked about giving an inheritance as a good thing.

In America, if you apply yourself and work hard, you can go far. I was raised in a poor environment and now I'm not. How? Well, I didn't have any rich people looking out for me, so I worked while other people slept or played video games. Capitalism simply places the decision of how much money you make on YOU instead of letting some dictator or king decide how much people have. It's the best system on earth.

Concerning wealth and people working hard to become rich, I don't believe there is anything at all wrong in wanting to work hard and be wealthy. When Solomon asked for wisdom, God chose to give him even more and one of those things was wealth. The Bible actually called it a blessing (that God blessed him with great wealth).

Here's a quote from Dave Ramsey about that:

"It is absolutely okay for a Christian to want to be a millionaire, because as Christians we know that no matter how much we have, we own nothing. We are simply managers of the resources God has give us. If we can manage God's money, whether $100 or $1 million, we are okay."

Remember, it's the "love" of money that is the root of evil. Working hard to earn a lot and enjoying the fruits of your labor is fine if you keep money in its proper perspective and don't love it. Love is for people. And just because some people do love money, that doesn't ruin it for the rest of us.

In capitalism, there is no "piece of the pie." The pie is the same size for everyone and we all can cut a slice out of it if we work very hard and apply ourselves. You see, a very rich person is not going to bury his money in a hole in the ground. He's going to invest it so that start-up companies can use it to employee themselves and others, start his own businesses which hire employees so that they can have some of it and save it in banks where they can loan it out for people to buy homes. He'll also use that money to buy food, have fun, by insurance, build a house, a car--all things that put money in the hands of other people.

Capitalism gives us all a chance to be as wealthy as we wish and it spreads money around to those who choose to offer something to their fellow man (person) that merits another person giving what they have worked hard to earn in exchange.

It sure beats a king or dictator deciding what he/she thinks you can/should live on or deserve!

You miss my point. There will be no capitalism in Heaven. Capitalism is based on inequality. Inequality comes about when some people take more than their share. Furthermore they expand this by taking control of the political, economic and judicial process to give them the right to exploit others.

Edited for rules violation.

James 5:  1Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. 2Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. 6You have condemned and murdered innocent men, who were not opposing you.

You make a good point about people coming from humble beginnings and becoming successful. I will leave your examples of Gates and Buffett unchallenged for now. I know how Gates made his billions, but know little of Warren Buffet's humble origins.

You are making some huge leaps of faith. First you assume that it is a level playing field and that the rules are equal and unbiased. Second you assume that you can become rich without oppressing others and engaging in unethical practices.

I will take the milieu in which most of your readers operate, the U.S. as an example. How many people have tried to live on the current minimum wage? Have you tried to feed and clothe a family and put a roof over your head on this wage? Someone starting out on a minimum wage cannot get ahead. They have no benefits and must work long hours, often having more than one job to get ahead.

Take two children, both equally intelligent. One is born into a family of privilege and another is born into poverty. If the system is equal and fair then they should have the same chance of making it by virtue of their own intelligence and skills.

Unfortunately, the one born into a life of privilege has a long head start. He has role models, he has books in his home, he has lessons for everything, he has good nourishment, he has a quiet room of his own to study in, he has someone to urge him to achieve, he has connections to get his first good job, he has universities knocking at his door because his parents are benefactors of the university, he has good healthcare if he gets sick and can afford to miss work while he convalesces.

I am not saying that he does not deserve these things. I am saying that he has a head start. The system guarantees his success. Even if he is useless, he will get a job using his family connections. If he gets in trouble with the law, he will get a good lawyer who will get him off without a record. If he is drafted he will not be sent to serve in combat, but will get a cushy job somewhere out of the way. If he wants to get into business, his daddy's friends will set him up and if he is a failure they will bail him out. If he enters politics, he will have the right people to endorse him. His way is paved and pre-determined.

So the system is not as fair as it could be. Everyone could be guaranteed a fair working wage. Everyone could have access to good housing. Everyone could have health care and drug plans. Everyone could have access to post-secondary education. I am not talking about communism. I am talking about within our existing structure. These things exist in Europe and to a lesser degree in Canada and they are not communist countries.

The system benefits when the most able students are given a chance to succeed. The system benefits when people have a decent wage. Families are healthier, happier and better able to deal with difficulties. Countries that spend more on public housing have no slums and ghettos. Countries that have more of a social safety net spend less on crime prevention. They have lower incarceration levels and recidivism is lower. Violent crime is lower in countries which have strong guns laws and have programs to combat drug addiction.

When you cut programs for the poor, you pay a higher price in the end. It costs more to house a criminal, than it does to house a family in public housing. This is to say nothing of how much safer people feel in their own cities. There is no price that can be put on that.

Capitalism is exploitive by its very nature. It is based on creating classes of haves and have nots. The money that the rich get has to come from others. Unfairness is at its core. No one sets out to be poor. They become that way. If you don't become poor then someone else will. It is inevitable.

Capitalism rewards greed. In order to acquire capital one must obtain wealth. That is the goal. You cannot become a good capitalist unless you always want more. It is a mistake to believe that capitalists create wealth. They merely redistribute what already exists. In reality all workers own their own labor and the results of their labor. The capitalist buys that labor by artificially creating a market for it. I say artificially because he sets the terms. He and his fellow capitalists create unemployment so that labor costs are kept as low as possible. They create opportunity in some places, but take it away in others. It is a myth that it is a free market where services are traded freely. These decisions are usually made at a very high level, national or international, by bankers and capitalist elite. They keep the destiny of the nation in their hands and hold politicians in their pockets.

One could argue that capitalists can be good citizens and give back to the community, but even if this could be demonstrated it still does not change the nature of capitalism or the capitalist. He got ahead by taking away from others.

America is more myth than reality. You say that if you work hard you can get ahead, but some people need to work hard and others do not. It takes an industrious working class to keep the capitalists in business. Without them the capitalists would fail. They keep the illusion alive so that the workers will not lose hope. We all live under the fallacy that we can get ahead on our own. However, what really happens is that you get a good idea and the capitalists sit back waiting for their opportunity to take it from you. They buy ideas, just as they buy people. If you work hard you may be noticed and promoted to a higher level. You are coopted. This is the way the system works. People are just a commodity to the people at the top.

My views may seem unduly skeptical, but they conform to my religious views. If Satan is active in this world, and I believe that he is, then he will go where the power and money is. If America is at the top of the world, then you can be assured that Satan is active in America. If corporations are where the power resides, then you can be assured that Satan is on the board of every company.

1 John 2: 15Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.

Blessings,
Dunamite

P.S. I write these things not to advocate any one political system. I see all political systems as being corrupt. I see economics systems such as capitalism as being particularly corrupt. There is evil, but Satan does not want to see it. He disguises things in such a way that we will buy into it. We can get sucked into thinking that the status quo is okay. We are being anesthetized by Satan when we cease to see his evil. Patriotism for a country is wrong if it clouds our judgment. Obedience is wrong if it is blind.

I could be accused of supporting communism, but that would be wrong. If we lived in a communist country then I would oppose it. To me it isn't a question of one being wrong and the other right. This is too simplistic. I defend communism in so far as its ideals are positive. The same ideals of giving as much as you can and taking only what you needed existed in the early church. You really can't argue against the ideals unless you are against what the church stood for. In practice it has been a disaster.

We live in a capitalist world. To live in a capitalist country with immense social and economic problems and not blame the underlying economics for any of it is wrong. Most apologists for capitalism are self serving. They have gained and so are able to justify in their own minds their own position viz a vis others. I am also of the elite, but reject elitism in general and the capitalist elite in particular. Otherwise I could not live out my Christianity with a clear conscience. I am not sure how others justify it, but I do not choose to.

"They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it" -George Carlin. I love that! But not because the American Dream is impossible to achieve. I know several people who have come up from poverty and have achieved wealth. I love that quote because abundance isn't as great as some of the poor think it is. Wealth comes with problems ... problems that cost you time ... lots of time. Time is not money ... it's life. And life is all you really have. I don't mean to say that poverty isn't miserable. It is. But I've seen that wealth is just a higher form of poverty.

Communism is not the answer, but neither is capitalism. Jesus will bring about fairness when he returns. Until that time we will have to live in an unfair world. However, Christians should not compromise their values in order to exist in this world.

Satan rules the world. His fate is sealed, but until he is bound and put away he continues to infest us with his plots and schemes. If there is power and influence to be had, then Satan is bound to be in the middle of it. If he is in the middle of it, then you can be sure that he uses deception and guile to lull us to sleep and get our defenses down.

Communism, may be a scourge to many of you, but it is too obvious for Satan. I am sure that he was involved in communist dictatorships, if there was power to be had, and evil to do. But, I am mainly concerned with more insidious things.

If you think that Satan does not wield power in western democracies, then you do not understand the enemy and how he works. Satan wants global control. Name one corporation that does not want to be huge, powerful with global power. Just saying these things do not make them so. But the questions need to be asked.

I see inequality in capitalism. I do not see it as being benign in any way. I see it as being exploitive. I see it as centralizing wealth. I see it as creating classes or rich and poor, haves and have nots. I see the gap between rich and poor as an ever widening gulf. I see rich person exploiting poor and rich nation exploiting poor nation. These are gross simplifications. What is actually happening is very complex. There are no simple solutions.

I see this things as a professional, who came from working class parents himself. I put myself through university and raised a family. I understand both sides of the debate, having lived them. My problem is that I am a Christian, living a privileged life, in a clean, safe, prosperous country. I cannot reconcile my having what I have or even what my own countrymen have, based on global inequality.

I have paid lots of taxes over the years. Unlike many people, I do not resent them. I think that I should pay even more taxes. I think that others need a break and I do not care if it is at my expense. I think that if I only give from my excess and it does not hurt then it isn't really giving. I am speaking only for myself.

For the Christian, justifying wealth and privilege is indefensible. We can try, but there is too much scripture against it. We will all stand before God one day, and our life of excess and privilege will come back to bite us. I know this because Jesus' concerns were for the poor, the neglected and the sick. And Jesus will be my judge. It will do me no good for him to melt my heart of stone then. I want it done now.

Indulge me if you will. Ignore me if you want. But I will not be silent. If I am silenced here, I will go elsewhere. I have received personal messages suggesting that I am out of line from the moderator. I do not want to rain on anyone's parade. But if your objective is to continue to bash communism one-sidedly and ignore what is happening in your own backyard, that is your business. My purpose is to deal with injustice and to call things as I see them. Ironically this is the only board which I have run afoul on on the four boards that I am active on.

Perhaps this message will draw the censor's ire as did previous ones. I hope not. Not for me, but for you. I am convicted that God wants to use the internet for his purposes. This board is a blessing to all. I am thankful for the opportunity to participate and do not resent criticism at all. If I am wrong then I expect to be told so. I do not presume to be right in all things. God gave us all brains to think with and the Holy Spirit to help us to discern. I ask only that you use what God has given us.

Dissent is essential to uphold freedom and democratic values. America came into being as a result of dissent and in these times dissent is being silenced. I find this curious. If I am a crackpot then my views will convince no one. If I am spreading false teaching then my lies will catch up with me. If I speak the truth then, it should not be stopped.

I say these things respectfully and with Christian love.

Blessings,
Dunamite

My intentions are good. I realize that my message is a stretch for most people. I feel it is well founded in scripture. Most people who embrace capitalism do not see it as evil. They are busy raising families and doing what they feel is right. However, this only makes it more insidious in my eyes.

We can hate communism because its evil is obvious, but Satan does not just do the obvious. He likes to use subterfuge and catch us with our guard down.

In the end times, the Beast will control capitalism. He will govern who can buy or sell. The free market if there is such a thing will not exist. I see this as already happening. I see capitalism doing what communism has failed to do. Corporations are global in their outreach. Their goal is world wide domination. What we refuse to accept from communism we embrace under capitalism. We are being propagandized by private media in the hands of corporations, yet do not see it as propaganda. We think that we have choice. We can turn it off. Can we? Where don't you see advertising?

Government is being transformed by the corporate agenda. National borders are being erased and nations are forming into trade blocs. These are because the national agenda is the corporate agenda. World government is coming in the form of world capitalism.

These things are all confirmed in prophecy. We will have large blocs, but they won't be communism. They will be dominated by Coke or Pepsi, McDonald's or Burger King.

The implications of what I am saying are huge. I am not trying to scare anyone. I am asking only that people turn on their brains and think. It is time for a reality check.

Most people will ignore what I am saying and go about being good consumers. Some will continue to pimp for world wide capitalism. This is their prerogative.  God gave us free will and scripture tells us how to discern truth.

We have the right to be wrong. I think that I am right and that it isn't too late. I know that the world cannot be reformed. People can change, though. They do not have to be the same today as they were yesterday.

I do not wish to defend communism. My initial postings were based on the ideal and the desire to be fair and reasonable. Reality is something else. I could never excuse what is happening in China. However, I don't see communism as being the threat. China's communist days are numbered. They too will be caught up in the allure of capitalism.

I don't see this as a left vs. right struggle. It isn't ideology that I am concerned with but spirituality. We are in a battle of cosmic proportions. Each person has to choose for him or herself. We are under attack. I am certain of this. My biggest concern is what is happening in our neighborhoods, right under our noses. I see Satan as not respecting national borders. He will use our own weakness against us, wherever it can be found. This isn't something that is happening in the future. It has been happening for centuries. Capitalism is the common denominator. It has facilitated Satan's work because it is so pervasive and attractive. It involves money and power. Two weaknesses of mankind. It is also about accumulation and centralization of wealth and power. This makes it more attractive to the Enemy.

I thank you for kind words about my intentions. I try to keep them pure, but it is a challenge for all of us.

Blessings,
Dunamite