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« Reply #210 on: November 19, 2008, 05:54:25 PM »

the only time jesus was a capitalist in the bible is when he told the rich man to SELL all of his belongings and follow him...
the rest points to jesus being  a certain kind of communist...

let it be noted that the failed communist governments in recent times also hold a strict anit-religion stance...


You are really making a massive, inappropriate leap here. Just because Jesus told one man that he needed to sell all his things doesn't mean it applies to everyone. He didn't tell the disciples to stop being fisherman which supplied them with income. He didn't tell Zacchaeus to stop being a tax collector. Jesus said in Luke 10:7 that a worker deserves his pay.

It was simply one man who thought he had it all together and Jesus found a weakness in the armor. The guy loved money more than Jesus.

You can be a wealthy person, having worked hard as the Bible commands, been wise with your money as the Bible book of Proverbs teaches and follow Jesus. You can do lots of good things with money. It is the "LOVE of money" that is "the root of all kinds of evil." Having money - even lots of it - is not the problem, loving it is.

Jesus had a specific mission at that point. If the man sold his posessions and "followed" Jesus he would be doing so for a specific purpose. He would have been one of the disciples and would have followed Jesus to specific places to do specific things at the SPECIFIC instruction of Jesus. Later, after Jesus went to be with the Father, we read Paul telling people to stay in the situation they're in and to lead people to Jesus within our lifestyle and situation (1 Corinthians 7).

Money feeds people. Money does a lot of good. It's the LOVE of money that is bad, not having money and even having lots of it.

Furthermore, Jesus was not proposing a system of government. When a government tries to control money, it has failed because the ones who control it have all the power. Communism can never work in a world of imperfect people. Capitalism, however, if left alone by the government, offers a limitless flow of money. Everyone can access it. Rich people invest, buy, loan and donate. They don't simply bury their money in a bucket in the backyard. They invest in businesses, hoping for a return, and, if the business is successful, that creates income for others. They buy products, which pays salaries and funds a business, they loan money which can start a business, build a house, buy a car to get to work, etc.

If you provide a product or service that society wants, they reward you for it with currency/money. That way, you can provide a service if you want or work with/for someone who does. You can work long hours to produce a better service or better product and be rewarded more. Or you can work the minimum amount to pay your bills. It's your choice in a free market/capitalist system. You can use your creativity and talents to serve mankind and be rewarded for it. In communism, a government decides what you do, where you live to do it and how much you are compensated. There's no such thing as working more to earn more or making a better product to earn more--you have to stand in line like everyone else to get your ration of toliet paper for the week. Don't be fooled. History has shown that it's a terrible that crucifies freedom. People risk their lives to float on old doors across the ocean to escape communist Cuba. They don't do that because communism is just so awesome. They do that for freedom.
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« Reply #211 on: November 19, 2008, 06:47:06 PM »

Mere Nick, I see what you are saying, but in Corbley's defense:

The Federal Reserve is not a normal banking process, it has the power to "coin" money from nothing.

The normal banking process creates and destroys money by the issuance and repayments of loans.  It happens regardless of the existence of a Federal Reserve, gold standard, whatever you name.

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I mean sure, we issue treasury bonds, but America is a consumption nation...we hardly produce anything. And even the things we do produce (US Auto Industry) are failing. So, if the dollar is backed by us (US citizen production) than its value is decreasing daily.

The dollar is backed by our actual production.  Do you remember the equation mv=pq?

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I don't think banks should convert back to a gold standard, I just feel the currency coiner (Fed) should be backed against a tangible asset (oil, metal, something).

In short, you want the government to control the price of something, for whatever reason, but you just can't make up your mind what you want it to control.

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The Federal Reserve is a non-government entity whose primary concern is keeping the entire world's currencies up.

It is independent within the government.  The president appoints the board of governors, subject to senate approval.

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All the current economic signs would suggest that idealized/realized currency value does not work. US businesses are failing, which in turn makes our citizens fail, which in turn makes the world fail. Which is why we will have one world currency, because it will be backed by the whole world and I'm sure the anti-christ will claim this will eliminate any ripple effects with business. If money is at peace, the world is at peace.

The signs tell me what doesn't work is governmental involvement in economic decision making based upon partisan concerns.  This financial meltdown is due to the CRA-Fannie Mae-Freddie Mac mess. 

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Lastly, the market value of gold would still be decided by supply/demand from the entire world...so the US government could not regulate its value (if they followed the laws of economics). If your money is backed by something, it doesn't render capitalism null, it simply doesn't allow people to live in a 'dream world' that America will always be on top because it is America & we have bigger guns. Its all tied together, fear, money, greed, and America is a superpower because we employ all 3. I love our freedoms, but I also think we need to pay for our mistakes and live realistically.

You completely contradict yourself here.  The idea of backing money with anything is a logical impossibility.  Visit this website for an explanation of why it is impossible and, therefore, a complete waste of time to seriously consider it.  It's already been tried and it fails.

However, if there is a gold standard than, yes, it destroys any idea of market value.  Let's say the government pegs the dollar at 800 being worth an ounce of gold.  Why would anyone ever consider paying one cent more when they can buy it from the US government at that price?  Why would anyone sell for a penny less when they can sell to the government at that price?

You might also find this to be very informative.

This, too.

Along with this.

And finally,this. Christians and Conspiracy Theories, A Call to Repentance.

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They turned me loose from the nervous hospital.  Said I was well.  Mmm hmm.

Suffering for your beliefs is called faithfulness, making others suffer for your beliefs is called being a jerk.

His cross, like the ark in the wilderness, is the center around which his people are to encamp; so that they cannot separate into factions, or withdraw from each other, without retiring at the same time from the presence of the cross.
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« Reply #211 on: November 19, 2008, 06:47:06 PM »

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« Reply #212 on: November 20, 2008, 03:14:45 PM »

I won't address it anymore, we just disagree on economic policies. I'll listen to the economist you sent me though, because I do love hearing/analyzing the topic.

And I'm not a conspiracy theorist, fyi, I'm just not very pro-media. Hope you didn't get upset over my responses, their merely my opinion on policy. God Bless.
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« Reply #213 on: November 20, 2008, 03:23:46 PM »

I won't address it anymore, we just disagree on economic policies. I'll listen to the economist you sent me though, because I do love hearing/analyzing the topic.

And I'm not a conspiracy theorist, fyi, I'm just not very pro-media. Hope you didn't get upset over my responses, their merely my opinion on policy. God Bless.

Ok.  It just hacks me when folks like you-know-who start spouting off loads of excrement expecting it to be gobbled up like cavier.  If you read the call to repentance, you might understand why.
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taller, better looking and smarter . . .

They turned me loose from the nervous hospital.  Said I was well.  Mmm hmm.

Suffering for your beliefs is called faithfulness, making others suffer for your beliefs is called being a jerk.

His cross, like the ark in the wilderness, is the center around which his people are to encamp; so that they cannot separate into factions, or withdraw from each other, without retiring at the same time from the presence of the cross.
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« Reply #213 on: November 20, 2008, 03:23:46 PM »

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« Reply #214 on: November 20, 2008, 03:27:54 PM »

I won't address it anymore, we just disagree on economic policies. I'll listen to the economist you sent me though, because I do love hearing/analyzing the topic.

And I'm not a conspiracy theorist, fyi, I'm just not very pro-media. Hope you didn't get upset over my responses, their merely my opinion on policy. God Bless.

Ok.  It just hacks me when folks like you-know-who start spouting off loads of excrement expecting it to be gobbled up like cavier.  If you read the call to repentance, you might understand why.

I bet you don't want to hear how Gary Coleman is gonna rise up, and help lead one world government then do you?  It will serve you right, it will be too late for you to ask, "Whatchyou talkin' bout Willis?"
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« Reply #215 on: November 23, 2008, 11:37:49 PM »

People risk their lives to float on old doors across the ocean to escape communist Cuba. They don't do that because communism is just so awesome. They do that for freedom.
people risk their lives for far more ignorant reasons than to go make money in america...


like flying thousands of miles away from america for american freedoms because iraqis hate our freedoms and supposedly tore down the towers in new york...

i'm not voting for cuba, but communism is an ism like the rest of them... a charitable capitalist could be called a benevolent communist...
i would say that the kgb were pretty good capitalists...
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« Reply #215 on: November 23, 2008, 11:37:49 PM »

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« Reply #216 on: December 04, 2008, 03:10:27 PM »

Didn't one particular church that we read of in the New Testament pool their goods and resources and had "all things in common" to "share with any man as he had need"?  I am not saying that's what America should be, but I am saying that CHRISTIANITY and CAPITALISM don't seem all that compatible or "on the same page" in regards to how to handle certain society/social issues.  Obviously there are some aspects of a first century church revealed in the Bible that shows Christianity to have more in common with Communism than Capitalism.  Maybe that's a kind of bitter pill to swallow, but the sooner we swallow that our national policies will never reflect TRUE CHRISTIANITY as Jesus lived and taught, the better off we will be.
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« Reply #217 on: February 15, 2009, 05:26:02 PM »

The difference is that the New Testament Christians were not taxed and then had their property given to others. The individuals gave of their property of their own accord.

Rather, it was through capitalism, or family wealth, that the Christians had the property to give.
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« Reply #218 on: February 17, 2009, 09:21:12 AM »

Any political system will work (communism, socialism, democracy, empire dictatorship) as long as there are good leaders who put the people needs first.

The problem is that the leaders are not good and the people needs take a back seat to personal power and glory.

I vote republican because their agenda takes into consideration people like me.  The demon-crates have nothing to offer people like me.

I am not a minority
I am not a homosexual
I am against abortion
I believe in the freedom of religion
I believe in the right to keep and bear arms
I understand that diplomacy prevents war it doesn't win war.

The demon-crates have nothing to offer so why vote for them?


A republic would also work but people realized that they could vote themselves power.  A democracy is 51% of the people telling 49% of the people what they can do and say.  Libertarianism is the only political avenue that allows Christians to flourish.  As the republicans no longer stand on principal, they are no longer smaller government.
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« Reply #219 on: February 18, 2009, 06:42:08 AM »

The difference is that the New Testament Christians were not taxed and then had their property given to others. The individuals gave of their property of their own accord.

Rather, it was through capitalism, or family wealth, that the Christians had the property to give.

Right on, man.  The early Christians didn't do what they did, call it a good idea, then try to influence Ceasar to force the entire empire to do it at the point of a sword. 

Those who look at the early church's volunteerism and figure it justifies massive statism strike me as the ultimate example of "the ends justifies the means" mindset.
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taller, better looking and smarter . . .

They turned me loose from the nervous hospital.  Said I was well.  Mmm hmm.

Suffering for your beliefs is called faithfulness, making others suffer for your beliefs is called being a jerk.

His cross, like the ark in the wilderness, is the center around which his people are to encamp; so that they cannot separate into factions, or withdraw from each other, without retiring at the same time from the presence of the cross.
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« Reply #219 on: February 18, 2009, 06:42:08 AM »

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« Reply #220 on: May 09, 2009, 02:41:59 PM »

I am completely convinced that GOD is strong enough not to need to be defended. I am quite sure thatall will acknowledge that it is us that are defended by CHRIST !! Amen
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« Reply #221 on: July 11, 2009, 08:42:35 PM »

I don't know how many communist's are here on the forum but I'm one.  I came to communism from studying socialism actually and found communism just made a lot of sense to me and was closest to Christianity.  There's a lot of propaganda out there about communism as should be expected.  People can read more at http://www.cpusa.org  It's the Communist party of the U.S. website.  I'm still new to communism compared to some people out there so I'd be happy to do what I can in answering any question's.
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« Reply #222 on: July 11, 2009, 08:58:50 PM »

I don't know how many communist's are here on the forum but I'm one.  I came to communism from studying socialism actually and found communism just made a lot of sense to me and was closest to Christianity.  There's a lot of propaganda out there about communism as should be expected.  People can read more at http://www.cpusa.org  It's the Communist party of the U.S. website.  I'm still new to communism compared to some people out there so I'd be happy to do what I can in answering any question's.

You honestly find that "control over people" makes sense and find it close to christianity? Communism has persicuted christianity for the sake of not wanting people to be liberated. Communism doesn't allow freedom of speech. The government basically owns the people when communism is abroad. If you want to take a week off to go on vacation, you need permission. How dare the government tell me that I need permission to go on vacation? They have "no" business trying to run my life.

Communism is a counterfeit to God's way of doing things. God wants us to depend on Him, to work for what we've got and achieve in life. Communism supresses your hard work as the government reaps the beenfit of that. Communism offers false hope to people that they will be taken care of, when in reality, all they get is their basic necessities tooken care of. It is "NOT" the solution to the world's problem's. Jesus is the real solution to the world's problems. He is the "ONE" you should put your trust in for provision.
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« Reply #222 on: July 11, 2009, 08:58:50 PM »

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« Reply #223 on: July 11, 2009, 10:36:28 PM »

I don't know how many communist's are here on the forum but I'm one.  I came to communism from studying socialism actually and found communism just made a lot of sense to me and was closest to Christianity.  There's a lot of propaganda out there about communism as should be expected.  People can read more at http://www.cpusa.org  It's the Communist party of the U.S. website.  I'm still new to communism compared to some people out there so I'd be happy to do what I can in answering any question's.

You honestly find that "control over people" makes sense and find it close to christianity? Communism has persicuted christianity for the sake of not wanting people to be liberated. Communism doesn't allow freedom of speech. The government basically owns the people when communism is abroad. If you want to take a week off to go on vacation, you need permission. How dare the government tell me that I need permission to go on vacation? They have "no" business trying to run my life.

Communism is a counterfeit to God's way of doing things. God wants us to depend on Him, to work for what we've got and achieve in life. Communism supresses your hard work as the government reaps the beenfit of that. Communism offers false hope to people that they will be taken care of, when in reality, all they get is their basic necessities tooken care of. It is "NOT" the solution to the world's problem's. Jesus is the real solution to the world's problems. He is the "ONE" you should put your trust in for provision.

Wow do you believe a lot of propaganda!  As a communist I can say that's okay though because before I studied communism and socialism myself and really dug into it I used to think the same things. So I'll address what you said okay?

In communism it means community.  Everyone has a say.  In the true sense of communism (which has NEVER existed by the way) people vote on issues and there are elections and city councils and whatnot.  It's easy for you to think that Christian's have been persecuted by communism because of Stalin.  He persecuted other communist's as well and killed them because they stood up to him when he wasn't doing something that had to do with communism.  Did you know that? I bet not.  I didn't either until I became more involved with communism.  The first people he killed were comrades so I'm not very fond of him.  In communism I have yet to be persecuted for my beliefs as a Christian.  Yes lots of communist's are atheist's and don't like religion at all but when people find out I'm Christian they really don't care.  We believe it's a private issue and has nothing to do with government and in a strong separation of church and state and that benefits both sides both government and religion.   Even Fidel Castro, who is one of the most well known communist's, is a Catholic.  Religion is in Cuba and Catholicism is very big and popular which is expected since they're Spanish influenced.  They have their own version of the IRS with rules to churches.

As far as controlling people that's untrue in the true sense of communism.  Sure there are dictators like Kim Jung-IL of North Korea but he isn't a communist if you look at him and at communism.  He has the label but that's pretty much it and the cult following.  There aren't unions, people can't vote, nobody can live anywhere etc.  Communism is like with any ideology and has people who are humans and we humans can become corrupt and obsessed and all those other negative attributes that comes with humanity.  It comes with free will. 

As far as Communism and Christianity read through the book of Acts.  The first Christian's mentioned there do a lot of communism such as not owning anything and sharing everything as a group.  Just one example.   

What do you mean with communism owns the people when they're abroad? That's how it is with any government on Earth.  When Americans go over seas or to another country on this side of the water's we're representing a democratic republic government.  Just be careful in some parts of Latin America cause you may be called a gringo which is a bad word there (it basically means greedy).

Uh of course the government repeats what you do.  Same thing for this government when we pay taxes.  Same thing in communism.  The government is of the people, by the people and for the people.  Sound familiar? That's a communist idea. As Christian's we're called to help the poor and those least of us, the sick, orphans, love our neighbors and take care of ourselves and the Earth.   And you know what?  Because of my religious beliefs I came to communism.  Jesus was a socialist in every sense of the word.
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« Reply #224 on: July 11, 2009, 11:35:14 PM »





Wow do you believe a lot of propaganda!  As a communist I can say that's okay though because before I studied communism and socialism myself and really dug into it I used to think the same things. So I'll address what you said okay?

Concerning what you've studied, they will never tell you the "real" truth about it.

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In communism it means community.  Everyone has a say.  In the true sense of communism (which has NEVER existed by the way) people vote on issues and there are elections and city councils and whatnot.

I am aware of the fact that it derives from the word "community." That is just a cosmetic delusion to get people to accept it. Make it seem harmless and innocent and actually good for the well being of humanity. You know, Satan himself can appea as an angel of light. He can disguise himself as being good. The anti-Christ(that one world government leader) will make himelf out to be for people's best interest, but in reality, is deceiving people with an ulterior motive. That's what the anti-Christ's communist one world government will consist of.

 
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It's easy for you to think that Christian's have been persecuted by communism because of Stalin.

Ever heard of a book called "Voice Of The Martyr's?" There are many stories of persicuted christians, some coming from communist nations, or nations that were communist.

  
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He persecuted other communist's as well and killed them because they stood up to him when he wasn't doing something that had to do with communism.

He had people killed because they stood their ground. That is how a communist society will operate. Persicute and even murder those who take a stand for anything right. That is pure control over people and what you just posted shows how wicked communism is. Those in power do whatever they please regardless of the agony they may cause on others.

 
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Did you know that? I bet not.

Never make an assumption of what somebody knows. You may be surprised as to what they know.

 
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I didn't either until I became more involved with communism.

If you are wise, then you'll get out of it. You are following a lie.

 
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The first people he killed were comrades so I'm not very fond of him.

And I wouldn't be fond of any other communist leader either.

 
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In communism I have yet to be persecuted for my beliefs as a Christian.

Not yet you haven't.

 
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Yes lots of communist's are atheist's and don't like religion at all but when people find out I'm Christian they really don't care.

If you start speaking Jesus to people, they will care. Many revile at the truth. Jesus even told us we'd be persicuted for His sake. A communist governmet will persicute us for His sake. That is because they despise christianity for the sake that it liberates people.

 
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We believe it's a private issue and has nothing to do with government and in a strong separation of church and state and that benefits both sides both government and religion.   Even Fidel Castro, who is one of the most well known communist's, is a Catholic.

Anyone can go to church. That doesn't mean that they serve Christ.

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Religion is in Cuba and Catholicism is very big and popular which is expected since they're Spanish influenced.  They have their own version of the IRS with rules to churches.

I will have to look into that one. But even so, what would happen if evangelical christians there were preaching the gospel??? Catholicism isn't known for that, and nonetheless, it's not the fact that there are church buildings that bother Satan and his one world government conspirators, it is bible believing christianity.

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As far as controlling people that's untrue in the true sense of communism.  Sure there are dictators like Kim Jung-IL of North Korea but he isn't a communist if you look at him and at communism.

It's a known fact that North Korea is communist. Since he is the leader of that nation, he is obviously a communist. Also, christianity is heavily persicuted there. Citizens are not even allowed to mention the Name of the Lord.

 
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He has the label but that's pretty much it and the cult following.

He wouldn't have that label if he couldn't carry the label.

 
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There aren't unions, people can't vote, nobody can live anywhere etc.  Communism is like with any ideology and has people who are humans and we humans can become corrupt and obsessed and all those other negative attributes that comes with humanity.  It comes with free will.  

Communism works very, very well with the corrupt I must say.

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As far as Communism and Christianity read through the book of Acts.  The first Christian's mentioned there do a lot of communism such as not owning anything and sharing everything as a group.  Just one example.  

That wasn't communism, that was people who truly worked together. Remember, communism is a counterfeit to that. That's why it looks so alike.

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What do you mean with communism owns the people when they're abroad? That's how it is with any government on Earth.

Yes, these government subtly practice a brand of cummunism. They have done a real job keeping it behind the woodwork.

  

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As Christian's we're called to help the poor and those least of us, the sick, orphans, love our neighbors and take care of ourselves and the Earth.   And you know what?  Because of my religious beliefs I came to communism.  Jesus was a socialist in every sense of the word.

Don't be able to expect to do so much of thatif communism takes over. They will do all they can to prohibit you so thatn "they" can be in charge.
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