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Author Topic: How can a Christian vote Democrat?  (Read 7092 times)

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Offline DaveW

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #35 on: Fri Mar 30, 2012 - 06:17:09 »
I was unaware that Duke supported Paul.  TO me that is like Amidinajad saying Hitler was a great guy. Big deal. They are both wrong. 

So are Duke and Paul.

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #35 on: Fri Mar 30, 2012 - 06:17:09 »

Offline Johnb

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #36 on: Fri Mar 30, 2012 - 07:43:33 »
David
So in a democratic republic (here by the will of God)  you think a Christian's duty is to just stay home and not support any candidates?  Is that  what you are saying?

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #36 on: Fri Mar 30, 2012 - 07:43:33 »

Alfred Combes

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #37 on: Fri Mar 30, 2012 - 07:48:16 »
I was unaware that Duke supported Paul.  TO me that is like Amidinajad saying Hitler was a great guy. Big deal. They are both wrong. 

So are Duke and Paul.

As Captain Shays pointed out, by your logic you could be in league with Charles Manson.

Point is your logic and comparisons are faulty.

Offline Jimmy

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #38 on: Fri Mar 30, 2012 - 07:55:30 »
I was unaware that Duke supported Paul.  TO me that is like Amidinajad saying Hitler was a great guy. Big deal. They are both wrong. 

So are Duke and Paul.

As Captain Shays pointed out, by your logic you could be in league with Charles Manson.

Point is your logic and comparisons are faulty.

He is using Hebrew block logic.  rofl rofl 

Sorry Dave, I couldn't resist it.

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #38 on: Fri Mar 30, 2012 - 07:55:30 »

Offline DaveW

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #39 on: Fri Mar 30, 2012 - 11:50:03 »
Good one Jimmy!  ::smile:: ::smile::

John - No I do not think we should stay home and unplug from the system.  That is the last thing we should do. 

But we should be PAINFULLY aware that the platforms of both parties contain unbiblical principles and that almost every politician is much less than we would want.

We should be in there to change the system of BOTH PARTIES to be more biblical.

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #39 on: Fri Mar 30, 2012 - 11:50:03 »



Offline Johnb

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #40 on: Fri Mar 30, 2012 - 13:56:40 »
1. We are voting on political platforms not scripture.  Not saying we should endorse abortion etc.  Just that we are not trying to establish a theocracy.

2.  Your charges against the GOP are unfounded.  I am sure there are racist folks in all parties and walks of life but there is nothing inherently racist about the GOP platform.

3.  Neither is the charge that the GOP is somehow against the poor true.  We just want to see folks truly in need taken care of and establish an economic system where all able bodied folks can have a job or the opportunity to start and run their own business.  We also want to see this and other things done within the frame work of our constitution.

4. If you want to understand what the truly poor go through visit a few third world countries and you will see that we have few truly poor folks in this country.

p.rehbein

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #41 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 08:49:53 »
How is that going to change the minds of the entrenched folks in Congress that are pro-choice? Most voters with sense know what it takes to get something DONE about abortion. It takes a sufficient majority to overcome a fillibuster and a sufficient majority to overcome a Presidential veto when a Dem is in that office. It isn't an issue of stomping our feet and grinding congress to a halt unsuccessfully. The Constitution defined exactly how these things should be addressed. We could amend the constiitution to change the rules, but of course that is even more difficult, for a reason. It's about working within the system to correct something that was fostered within the system. It's an issue that needs to be defeated at the voting booth. That's how a free people speak out.

But yeah, you need to stay home p.rhebein. Please don't vote.


I suppose you simply cannot understand things..............  ::headscratch:: ::pondering:: ::shrug::, at no time have I ever stated tat I would "stay home," just neve did, yet you continually suggest that I have stated such.............

Now, as for a couple of comments you have directed towards me personally on this thread and another one, let me say I do not appreciate your "dismissive" attitude/statements.  Don't care what you believe, who you are, but don't come on with that crap with me, 'cause that dog won't hunt.

If you feel so "superior," then possibly you should have a little talk with Jesus, and be reminded of the importance of "humility" within a Christian's life.


Offline Jaime

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #42 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 09:07:17 »
You have stated there is no difference in the parties, And I'm pretty sure you have defended staying home and not participating in the process. That is why I hope you do stay home and not vote. But I simply CAN understand that there IS a big difference. Neither party is perfect and I am certainly not perfect. Avoid me if you want and I will avoid you. I only care what you believe about politics because it matters.

I might have gotten you and Larry mixed up, I know we three have had some "good natured" jabs at one another over politics. If I did mix you up with Larry, I apologize. It's Larry that shouldn't vote. If you still think there is no difference in the parties, you are still seriously messed up, but I love ya brother. And I still hope you don't vote.

By the way, I figure I am no less humble than you are. So don't try to hunt that dog either, 'cause it's a chihuahua.

« Last Edit: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 09:32:56 by Jaime »

Offline DaveW

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #43 on: Sat Mar 31, 2012 - 21:28:50 »

3.  Neither is the charge that the GOP is somehow against the poor true.  We just want to see folks truly in need taken care of and establish an economic system where all able bodied folks can have a job or the opportunity to start and run their own business.  We also want to see this and other things done within the frame work of our constitution.
The GOP is the traditional voice of big business, just as the Dems are the voice of big labor.  No self respecting true republican would ever endorse a minimum wage,   collective bargaining, or restrictions on import and export.  Also none would endorse taxes on anyone but the working class. None of that is good for business.

Cheap illegal labor IS good for business.
No environmental hurdles is good for business.

To me all these seem like oppression of the poor which is against scripture.

Offline Johnb

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #44 on: Sun Apr 01, 2012 - 06:30:09 »

3.  Neither is the charge that the GOP is somehow against the poor true.  We just want to see folks truly in need taken care of and establish an economic system where all able bodied folks can have a job or the opportunity to start and run their own business.  We also want to see this and other things done within the frame work of our constitution.
The GOP is the traditional voice of big business, just as the Dems are the voice of big labor.  No self respecting true republican would ever endorse a minimum wage,   collective bargaining, or restrictions on import and export.  Also none would endorse taxes on anyone but the working class. None of that is good for business.

Cheap illegal labor IS good for business.
No environmental hurdles is good for business.

To me all these seem like oppression of the poor which is against scripture.

Again broad generalities with no bases in fact but simply using political propaganda of both sides.

This republican is a former member of the St Louis labor council selected by other union members because I have never been afraid to speak my mind.

Republicans want everyone to share in both the wealth and keep taxes low for everyone.  The concept that we want only the working class to pay taxes is bogus.  We do think everyone should have some skin in the game even if it is only $1.  A System that we have now where half of people pay no taxes can not succeed.
The rest of what you said is so retarded it does not even deserve an answer. 
Making wild unsubstantiated claims against whole groups is certainly "unbiblical".

Offline Jaime

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #45 on: Sun Apr 01, 2012 - 07:09:01 »
Also, it is ironic that minimum wage increases more directly adversely affect the minimum wage earners than any other segment of our economy. When a Wal-Mart has to raise minimum wages, the prices go up. When their prices go up, the people that shop their pay more of their wages than they did before.

I have always been of the opinion that if minimum wage increases had no impact on prices, raise the minimum wage to $20 per hour. But of course minimum wage has tremendous impact on prices that businesses charge for their products. I spent 5 years on minimum wage, and it helped motivate me to realize it was not designed as a living wage for a family of 4.

Also, as I have stated on here before, my family's legacy is in the Democrat party, until the Democrat party changed. My family tree changed none of its values, but the party darned sure did. My mother-in-law just yesterday, recoiled in horror when I told her that the Democrat party platform supports abortion rights. Her daddy 60 years ago told her to never vote for a Republican.

And I have a visceral disdain for anything that even remotely sounds like a labor union. I have been threatened by a group of union construction workers that they would unscrew my arm and beat me over the head with them primarily because as a young trainee, I was producing about twice the work that they thought I should be. Later in life, I became a project manager and preached to these same guys that they MUST produce twice or three times as much in order to compete with the non-union wages. They were more than capable of doing so. Their superior training equipped them to do just that, but they refused and as a result, there is virtually no such thing as a union craftsman on a construction project in my part of the world. Stupidity coupled with hard-headedness won't buy the groceries.

Offline DaveW

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #46 on: Sun Apr 01, 2012 - 07:41:45 »
You are correct Jaime that minimum wage does affect prices. And that it cannot support a family.  But family is not what industrialists are interested in.  They want productivity, regardless of the cost to the workers.  Getting rid of slavery actually was better for them because now they did not have to feed or house or do anything for their workers.

I had a similar run in with a few UAW guys on my first summer job out of high school. They came after me with 2x4s.

What it is IMO is greed on both sides of the equation, management/Republican wants as much as they can get at the workers' expense and labor/Democrats want to take as much as they can from the rich industrialists.

Offline Jaime

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #47 on: Sun Apr 01, 2012 - 07:48:32 »
Productivity helps the workers just as much as it helps the companies. My construction union story is a prime example. Those guys were willing to see their union go down the toilet of obsolescene rather than adapt to productivity realities.

What is hilariously sad to me is the constant harping on the oil company's profits. Their percentage of profits is way less than most industries. The shear magnitude of the numbers boggles peoples minds, but it an industry has mind boggling costs, it will likely have mind boggling gross profit numbers (not necessarily profit margins). If an industry invests hundreds of billions in it's activities, why is 10's of billions of profit so evil? If 5 to 11 percent profit is evil, Let's go after Microsoft with both barrels. They have a 20% plus profit margin.

Offline Johnb

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #48 on: Sun Apr 01, 2012 - 08:30:33 »
The worker that is vastly underpaid and treated poorly and has to work in an unsafe environment is always looking for better employment.  Turn over and retraining of employees cost a company huge amounts of money.  So the concept that they want to work a person for as little as possible and are not concerned with their health is just dumb.   Accidents and work conditions that cause health problems cost huge amounts so it is in the companies best interest to pay a living wage and provide as healthy an environment as possible to gain and maintain a good work force.  Many companies provide child care, gym memberships and incentives to quit smoking and lose weight.
Are there bad companies ?   Yes  Are their poor workers who do not have the skills or ability to do a good job in some companies?  Yes.
However, to paint with a broad brush and condemn all republicans  and business is just dishonest.

Offline DaveW

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #49 on: Sun Apr 01, 2012 - 08:50:50 »
Yes all that stuff is here in this country, the good ol' usa.  And that is why they look to 3rd world countries to make their goods.

I used to work for the 10th largest multinational (who got sued out of existence in the 1990s)

The plant I worked at in the mid 80s made truck and earthmoving equipment transmissions. They moved to Brazil because they could pay the workers $2 a day, and used indentured servant tactics to keep workers on the job.  They had 10 year old kids working on the shop floor.  And even with that, the people who were overseeing the move said the workers were not paid enough to rent housing so they all lived in tents on the plant property (and were charged rent for that even)

Offline Johnb

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #50 on: Sun Apr 01, 2012 - 09:28:11 »
An isolated company does not make your case.  Many repetitive low skilled jobs have gone over seas because that is the only way they can compete.  The choice is often to move to a cheaper labor force or close your business.  That does not make the company evil.  Our economy must compete with higher skills and service jobs because other countries have developed the mass manufacturing business that we once owned.  These are not jobs that require a lot of training and skill.  I once worked one of these jobs and decided I would do something on my own because doing a no skilled job over and over was something I hated.  It was a union job with top wages but I would rather work for half the money doing something I enjoy.  Life is just to short.

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #51 on: Sun Apr 01, 2012 - 10:12:10 »
Democrats are just as involved with big business as Republicans, perhaps more.

Democrats are heavily invested in crony capitalism and thrive where business and government intersect.

In this country, raising the minimum wage makes very little change for those holding the minimum wage, but the inflation that results harms small businesses and the lower middle class.   Rebublicans don't oppress the poor nor do they care for the poor.  Democrats oppress the poor by enslaving them with government care.

Offline Jaime

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #52 on: Sun Apr 01, 2012 - 11:55:58 »
Yeah the increased wages from a minimum wage increase is rapidly eaten up by price increases. Some think that minimum wage increases do not cause price increases. Companies ALWAYS pass thru to the consumers increased cost, be they minimum wage increases or tax increases. The poor and middle income consumers are ALWAYS the impacted ones, even if the target is corporations. When people advocate taxing corporations more, they are in effect saying, "Let's make 'em raise the prices!"
« Last Edit: Sun Apr 01, 2012 - 12:19:12 by Jaime »

Offline Jaime

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Re: How can a Christian vote Democrat?
« Reply #53 on: Sun Apr 01, 2012 - 15:08:16 »
There is no perfect political party, both parties definitely have their flaws. Though there IS a distinct difference in the two. Become involved in learning about the differences. Study the party platforms and strive to hold them accountable. The last thing someone needs to do is listen to what the two parties say about each other.