Christian Forums and Message Board

Since Mitt and Newt both supported the bailouts, an individual healthcare mandate and cap & trade (Newt even did an ad with Pelosi for it), please explain to me how either would be much different than Obama.

Romney's the weakest of the bunch and he would be tremendously better than Obama. Newt was Speaker and balanced at least 4 budgets undef a Democrat President. Newt will Nuke Obama in the debates.

I would like to know if all the supporters of each of the GOP candidates will vote for the GOP nominee or will you stay home or vote 3rd party and effectively vote fir Obama?

Romney's the weakest of the bunch and he would be tremendously better than Obama. Newt was Speaker and balanced at least 4 budgets undef a Democrat President. Newt will Nuke Obama in the debates.

I would like to know if all the supporters of each of the GOP candidates will vote for the GOP nominee or will you stay home or vote 3rd party and effectively vote fir Obama?

I see you're still looking for a way to place blame on anyone else. We all know Mitt Obomney & Newtama Gingrinch are going to lose big time in the general. You know it as well as I do. Folks just will not be able to hold their noses long enough to get past the stench. So you want to blame the failures of the partisans who chose these guys in the primaries on those who will not elect them in the general. How sad it that? Picking losers in the beginning will only give a loser in the end. But what else can one expect from folks who get all their information from the yellow journalism of corporate media. A media that now only represents the interests of the corporatist, not the interests of the People. Talking head TV is now nothing more than a long infomercial on a 24 hour cycle. So many wonder why so many are truly uninformed when they are staring at the problem for hours on end every day. So sad.

So I take it from your response you will be casting an effecrive vote for Obama after Ron Paul fails  to get enough support for the nomination. I plan to vote for the GOP nominee whoever it is. He will be the only being on earth with any chance to defeat Obama.

We've been down this road before.

Of course I will not for evil.

It's a crying same you partisans put party above principle. Then expect folks to concur with your poor choices.


You partisans rail against Obama's support of the "Isms" , then present others who support the same "Isms" as the solution.


Then will not to take responsibility for your poor choices, blaming those who refuse to be complicit in your poor choices.

As of this election year both parties have moved so far left it appears the John Birch Society has been completely vindicated.

With Mitt & Newt we are talking about a pair of Global Warming Hoax supporters, Carbon tax cap & trade supporters, UN supporters, WTO supporters, etc. etc. These guys support some of the most radical, extreme, & unbelievable nonsense on the planet. Just like Obama.

What I'm amazed at , is that they have not been tarred & feathered then ran out of town on a rail.


And you honestly expect anyone to vote for them?

You will vote for Obama by not voting fir the GOP nominee. I am not a partisan. I could care less about the GOP machine, other than it is a reality that we will either vote for Obama directly or indirectly. The GOP nominee is the only person on the planet with any chance to beat Obama. I support your right to vote your choice in the primary even though I will vote for another candidate. I will vote for the GOP nominee if I want remove Obama. If I don't I will stay home or xast a meaningless 3rd party vote. You guys do as you wish, but just know there is only one non-Obama
vote. Do I like it, not especially, but it most certainly is reality.

Then why are you pushing the false Logic of just supporting the R's no matter what?

How is replacing one extremist Global Warming Hoax supporter, Carbon tax cap & trade scam supporter, UN supporter, WTO supporter, with another extremist Global Warming Hoax supporter, Carbon tax cap & trade scam supporter, UN supporter, WTO supporter going to fix any thing? or change any thing?

Still pushing the Iran fear-mongering I see.   Even though though you are aware of the over-whelming evidence to the contrary. That Iran is a puppet state to Russia & China & completely dependent on them for the nuclear & military capability.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jul/5/irans-nuclear-program-helped-by-china-russia/
http://meria.idc.ac.il/journal/2004/issue1/jv8n1a7.html
http://www.wisconsinproject.org/countries/iran/nuke-miles.htm
http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=29604

As you already know any real negotiations or efforts to do anything about a nuclear problem in Iran has to be addressed with China & Russia. They are Iran's nuclear industry. If & when Iran ever gets the 'bomb' it's because Russia & China give it to them. Plus China & Russia has gone on record stating an attack on Iran is an attack on them.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/china-will-not-hesitate-protect-iran-even-third-world-war
http://blog.heritage.org/2011/11/02/is-russia-becoming-irans-diplomatic-godfather/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/13/iran-russia-nato-idUSL6E8CD2XU20120113

So unless US is ready to start WW3 it's all sabre rattling as you well know. Sabre rattling for cover of the economic alliances being built behind the scenes. Which you already know about.

China is working behind the scenes to establish its currency at the reserve currency by taking direct action against the US dollar current status.

Back in October China announced a new bank that would trade in the Yuan with an invitation towards South Korea & more importantly Japan. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/27/us-china-asean-financial-idUSTRE79Q2F520111027

On December 25 China & Japan announced  direct trading with the Yen & the Yuan no longer trading with the US Dollar. Remember Japan is the 2cnd largest consumer of Iranian oil, now they can just buy Iranian oil from China instead of Iran.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-25/china-japan-to-promote-direct-trading-of-currencies-to-cut-company-costs.html

December 25 Japan also announced it would be investing in Chinese Government Bonds as well.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/25/us-japan-china-bonds-idUSTRE7BO06G20111225

December 28 Japan loans India 15 Billion to shore up Rupee against Western/European currency crisis pulling the 3rd largest Asian economy into dependency on the Japan/China alliance and way from the US.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-28/japan-india-seal-15-billion-currency-swap-arrangement-to-shore-up-rupee.html

http://www.bullionstreet.com/news/indias-gold-for-oil-deal-with-iran-to-boost-the-bullion/898
https://rt.com/news/iran-india-gold-oil-543/
http://www.forexcrunch.com/gold-for-oil-india-and-iran-ditch-dollar-report/
"According to a new and yet unconfirmed report, India bought oil from Iran using gold. India certainly has the gold resources to fund the oil,"
"The step joins Russia and Iran’s announcement to begin trading in their own domestic currencies rather than use the US dollar"

These are major steps in China's growing global alliance, especially the moves that are consolidating partnerships with historical US allies such as Japan, South Korea, & India.

It was just two years ago in December that Russia & China agreed on direct trade of currency as well.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/15/business/global/15iht-ruble15.html

These are huge stories with major & lasting impacts you are not hearing discussed on corporate media opinion news.

On December 7 Chinese President Hu Jintao told the Chinese military to "prepare for war"? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-16063607

One Jan 5, 2012 The US announce a new military re-organization plan - Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Martin Dempsey said -“All of the trends, demographic trends, geopolitical trends, economic trends and military trends are shifting toward the Pacific. So our strategic challenges in the future will largely emanate out of the Pacific region"
http://articles.boston.com/2012-01-06/news/30598597_1_asia-pacific-defense-secretary-leon-panetta-defense-strategy

Two days later, China just warned us about our newly announced military strategy
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/07/world/asia/chinese-news-agency-xinhua-warns-us-against-militarism.html?_r=1&ref=china

In summation - What the China led economic coalition is doing to the US  is the exact same policy the US is doing to Iran through economics.

These are all the by products of the on going major power shift from the West to the East.

This is the current Japanese view & assessment on the power shift
http://nippon.com/en/currents/d00006/
Currencies and the International Order During a Global Power Shift

It's not like it was not anticipated this article from the CFR's Foreign Affairs magazine, is eight years old.
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/59910/james-f-hoge-jr/a-global-power-shift-in-the-making
A Global Power Shift in the Making

So why do you insist on continuing down the fear-mongering road when you & all in the know understands the whole truth of the situation?

Who cares how or from whom they get it. They have said they will use it to destroy Israel, or try to. Creating as you well know a regional and worldwide crisis. I fully expect them to acquire a bomb rather than build one. Whether it's China, Russia or Pakistan or N. Korea. It will still go boom. But again, I don't see any difference in the threat. If they get it, we (the world) better look out. Even an unsuccessful attempt to deliver a nuke to Israel will not have isolated consequences. And please stop accusing me of fear mongering. I don't accuse you of stupid mongering.

No accusation, just stating fact. It's what you're doing. You know all the evidence and yet you continue. The People are not stupid, this issue is what killed Michelle Bachmann's campaign when she over-played the fear card. the very next day she took a nose-dive that she could not recover from.

Still pushing the Iran fear-mongering I see.   Even though though you are aware of the over-whelming evidence to the contrary. That Iran is a puppet state to Russia & China & completely dependent on them for the nuclear & military capability.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jul/5/irans-nuclear-program-helped-by-china-russia/
http://meria.idc.ac.il/journal/2004/issue1/jv8n1a7.html
http://www.wisconsinproject.org/countries/iran/nuke-miles.htm
http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=29604

As you already know any real negotiations or efforts to do anything about a nuclear problem in Iran has to be addressed with China & Russia. They are Iran's nuclear industry. If & when Iran ever gets the 'bomb' it's because Russia & China give it to them. Plus China & Russia has gone on record stating an attack on Iran is an attack on them.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/china-will-not-hesitate-protect-iran-even-third-world-war
http://blog.heritage.org/2011/11/02/is-russia-becoming-irans-diplomatic-godfather/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/13/iran-russia-nato-idUSL6E8CD2XU20120113

So unless US is ready to start WW3 it's all sabre rattling as you well know. Sabre rattling for cover of the economic alliances being built behind the scenes. Which you already know about.

China is working behind the scenes to establish its currency at the reserve currency by taking direct action against the US dollar current status.

Back in October China announced a new bank that would trade in the Yuan with an invitation towards South Korea & more importantly Japan. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/27/us-china-asean-financial-idUSTRE79Q2F520111027

On December 25 China & Japan announced  direct trading with the Yen & the Yuan no longer trading with the US Dollar. Remember Japan is the 2cnd largest consumer of Iranian oil, now they can just buy Iranian oil from China instead of Iran.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-25/china-japan-to-promote-direct-trading-of-currencies-to-cut-company-costs.html

December 25 Japan also announced it would be investing in Chinese Government Bonds as well.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/25/us-japan-china-bonds-idUSTRE7BO06G20111225

December 28 Japan loans India 15 Billion to shore up Rupee against Western/European currency crisis pulling the 3rd largest Asian economy into dependency on the Japan/China alliance and way from the US.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-28/japan-india-seal-15-billion-currency-swap-arrangement-to-shore-up-rupee.html

http://www.bullionstreet.com/news/indias-gold-for-oil-deal-with-iran-to-boost-the-bullion/898
https://rt.com/news/iran-india-gold-oil-543/
http://www.forexcrunch.com/gold-for-oil-india-and-iran-ditch-dollar-report/
"According to a new and yet unconfirmed report, India bought oil from Iran using gold. India certainly has the gold resources to fund the oil,"
"The step joins Russia and Iran’s announcement to begin trading in their own domestic currencies rather than use the US dollar"

These are major steps in China's growing global alliance, especially the moves that are consolidating partnerships with historical US allies such as Japan, South Korea, & India.

It was just two years ago in December that Russia & China agreed on direct trade of currency as well.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/15/business/global/15iht-ruble15.html

These are huge stories with major & lasting impacts you are not hearing discussed on corporate media opinion news.

On December 7 Chinese President Hu Jintao told the Chinese military to "prepare for war"? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-16063607

One Jan 5, 2012 The US announce a new military re-organization plan - Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Martin Dempsey said -“All of the trends, demographic trends, geopolitical trends, economic trends and military trends are shifting toward the Pacific. So our strategic challenges in the future will largely emanate out of the Pacific region"
http://articles.boston.com/2012-01-06/news/30598597_1_asia-pacific-defense-secretary-leon-panetta-defense-strategy

Two days later, China just warned us about our newly announced military strategy
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/07/world/asia/chinese-news-agency-xinhua-warns-us-against-militarism.html?_r=1&ref=china

In summation - What the China led economic coalition is doing to the US  is the exact same policy the US is doing to Iran through economics.

These are all the by products of the on going major power shift from the West to the East.

This is the current Japanese view & assessment on the power shift
http://nippon.com/en/currents/d00006/
Currencies and the International Order During a Global Power Shift

It's not like it was not anticipated this article from the CFR's Foreign Affairs magazine, is eight years old.
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/59910/james-f-hoge-jr/a-global-power-shift-in-the-making
A Global Power Shift in the Making

So why do you insist on continuing down the fear-mongering road when you & all in the know understands the whole truth of the situation?

Tonka you haven't refuted anything. Iran getting a bomb from China or Russia doesn't mitigate the situation. It is the same situation only an express version. Facing real threats is not fear mongering, it is reality mongering. Or the opposite is stupid mongering.

I'm amazed that:

Ron Paul predicted the attacks of 9-11:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdyXVyhei88[/youtube]

Ron Paul predicted the housing/mortgage crash:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnuoHx9BINc[/youtube]

Ron Paul predicted the decline of the dollar and 2008 economic collapse:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oJlGLTi69k[/youtube]

If he was in office, this stuff wouldn't have happened! And now we sit back and are giving power to one of apparently two establishment, status-quo candidates (Mitt or Newt) who both contributed to the problem. They both supported cap and trade, an individual healthcare mandate, the bailouts, etc. And only recently gave lip service to Republicans as though they opposed those things.

How in the world Ron Paul is not the front runner is beyond me and only shows how brainwashed people truly are. We should put Ron Paul on our shoulders and carry him into Washington! He is EXACTLY what we need instead of more of the same with a few "conservative" slants to massive, liberal big government programs!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpe6fcQyIyE[/youtube]

Ron Paul on self defense

As an Air Force veteran, Ron Paul believes national defense is the single most important responsibility the Constitution entrusts to the federal government.

In Congress, Ron Paul voted to authorize military force to hunt down Osama bin Laden and authored legislation to specifically target terrorist leaders and bring them to justice.

Acting as the world’s policeman   and nation-building weakens our country, puts our troops in harm’s way, and sends precious resources to other nations in the midst of an historic economic crisis

That’s why, as Commander-in-Chief, Dr. Paul will lead the fight to:

* Make securing our borders the top national security priority.

* Avoid long and expensive land wars that bankrupt our country by using constitutional means to capture or kill terrorist leaders who helped attack the U.S. and continue to plot further attacks.

* Guarantee our intelligence community’s efforts are directed toward legitimate threats and not spying on innocent Americans through unconstitutional power grabs like the Patriot Act.

* End the nation-building that is draining troop morale, increasing our debt, and sacrificing lives with no end in sight.

* Follow the Constitution by asking Congress to declare war before one is waged.

* Only send our military into conflict with a clear mission and all the tools they need to complete the job – and then bring them home.

* Ensure our veterans receive the care, benefits, and honors they have earned when they return.

* Revitalize the military for the 21st century by eliminating waste in a trillion-dollar military budget.

* Prevent the TSA from forcing Americans to either be groped or ogled just to travel on an airplane and ultimately abolish the unconstitutional agency.

* Stop taking money from the middle class and the poor to give to rich dictators through foreign aid.

As President, Ron Paul’s national defense policy will ensure that the greatest nation in human history is strong, secure, and respected.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/national-defense/

It is self defense to go after terrorists as we have. We should not wait until the attack happens. If we know an attack is planned or imminent, getting them is self defense. This ain't our father's or grandfather's war, where armies are gathering against us, this is evil individuals plotting huge acts of violence in ssecret and using our freedoms against us as tactics. In isolated cases, there have been countries in cahoots with these evil individuals offering sanctuary such as Afghanistan.

Plus if you read the OT, you will see if the Israelites had destroyed all the men, women and children of the Canaanite nations like God specified, we probably wouldn't be having the issues we have today. Not advocating genocide or justifying any killing necessarily, but the OT reference above made me remember that God did command basically genocide and the Israelites didn't obey. Could be some of the reason for the irreconcileable problems in the area today.

Quote from: Jaime on Tue Jan 31, 2012 - 07:00:26

It is self defense to go after terrorists as we have. We should not wait until the attack happens. If we know an attack is planned or imminent, getting them is self defense. This ain't our father's or grandfather's war, where armies are gathering against us, this is evil individuals plotting huge acts of violence in ssecret and using our freedoms against us as tactics. In isolated cases, there have been countries in cahoots with these evil individuals offering sanctuary such as Afghanistan.

Plus if you read the OT, you will see if the Israelites had destroyed all the men, women and children of the Canaanite nations like God specified, we probably wouldn't be having the issues we have today. Not advocating genocide or justifying any killing necessarily, but the OT reference above made me remember that God did command basically genocide and the Israelites didn't obey. Could be some of the reason for the irreconcileable problems in the area today.

This shows that people just don't truly realize how massively deep we are in debt and what a threat that is to our national security. It's killing us and we've got to stop it! The politicians will always have a boogie man to invent to spend more of our tax dollars fighting. There's always another war to fight. Yea! Let's go spend another trillion on blowing up Iran to defend Israel even though Israel has asked us to stay out of it and they are in a much better financial position then we are.

And then after Iran it will be Pakistan or Russia. Anything so that the Fed can print more money so our dollar isn't worth enough to be toilet paper. Geez. Just because someone can find a way to suggest a country is an enemy and could attack us doesn't make it so. And it's so inconsistent because we're sending Billion$ to our enemies. Why?! Neither Mitt nor Newt has proposed ending that (Ron has!). We send more to Israel's enemies individually than we do Israel. Ron Paul says that's wasteful and stupid. I mean, we're so broke countries should be sending money to us! And yet we just keep sending it away like we've got it to burn. But more of the same with Barack Romney or Newt Obama will fix it! Newt will put a coloney on the moon! It'll be the most fun 5 TRILLION we've ever spent! And we'll all dance in the streets because we won't have houses since the China-owned banks won't take our worthless dollars! Yea! More of the same! Don't vote for Ron Paul because freedom and prosperity aren't in vogue!

I say we don't fight any wars we don't have to. We must be prepared. Peace through strength. There is no strength though perceived weakness that our enemies have of us. I am never for fighting unnecessary wars. But I am ALL FOR being prepared so that we don't have to fight. Ron Paul could win this nomination if he would just admit that Iran is a threat to world peace. No one is advocating a new war. Though sometimes threats don't wait until it is fiscally convenient.

We survived Carter and we will aurvive a one term Obama. Probably not a two term Obama. We haven't seen the true radical Obama until he secures a second term.

I'd like to point out that nobody has yet answered Tennman's OP.

I'd like to point out that nobody has yet answered Tennman's OP.

It is loaded with false premises.  Besides, IIRC, Tennman is a Paul supporter.  I have walls around here I can talk to in person.

When Newt was speaker of the house we had some budget surpluses.  Obama dreams of one day having a deficit as small as what Beelzebush the Younger averaged.  Mitt understands the economy, has signed the front of paychecks and has built some businesses.  He has been a productive person.  Obama is nothing more than a looter. 

I agree Nick.

That's because you're a genius.

Newt and Mitt have an "R" next to their name.  That is the only real difference.

From the DesMoines Register:

Health care law: Both houses of Congress approved health care reform in 2009, achieving one of the cornerstones of Obama’s presidential campaign. The law is expected to expand health care coverage to 32 million Americans not previously insured. It would require companies with more than 50 employees to provide health insurance. The uninsured and self-employed would be able to purchase health insurance through state-based exchanges. The law will be phased in over five years; most provisions do not take effect until Jan. 1, 2014. Republicans have vehemently opposed the legislation, dubbing it “Obamacare