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Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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How should Christians Approach Politics?
« on: Tue Sep 25, 2012 - 17:04:14 »
I've created a thread to discuss this issue since it seems many threads in this forum have been sidetracked to address this question.

In the future discuss this topic in this thread, instead of taking other threads off course.

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How should Christians Approach Politics?
« on: Tue Sep 25, 2012 - 17:04:14 »

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #1 on: Wed Sep 26, 2012 - 18:07:15 »
Romans 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

Even the one's we think are bad guys. Is criticizing the government rebelling against it? Sometimes I don't think free speech is a Christian thing either because we are reminded in the bible to control our tongues.

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #1 on: Wed Sep 26, 2012 - 18:07:15 »

Offline hammer123

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #2 on: Tue Oct 16, 2012 - 16:16:21 »
Romans 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

Even the one's we think are bad guys. Is criticizing the government rebelling against it? Sometimes I don't think free speech is a Christian thing either because we are reminded in the bible to control our tongues.

The verses about respecting authority, not speaking against authority etc is meant for when the government is obeying Gods laws.

If a government was killing Christians or like in the old days when some Kings would run around raping women, God does not mean for us to remain silent.

Offline hammer123

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #3 on: Tue Oct 16, 2012 - 16:18:09 »
I think Christians should look at the issues with natural eyes and super natural eyes.

1.  Do the natural policies of the candidate make sense according to your knowledge and education?

2.  Do the supernatural issues line up with the word of God.  Example:  Are they going to bless Israel?  Are they going to support homosexuals? 

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #3 on: Tue Oct 16, 2012 - 16:18:09 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline Jamesone5

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #4 on: Tue Jan 01, 2013 - 06:43:40 »
Since our Nation"s Founding, there has always been these Church/State Issues and whether or not there truly is a Wall of Separation between the two elements.
As I Believer, I find that there should be somewhat a Wall of Separation as to how I approach things of the world{State] and my Faith {Church], because if one blends the two a Confirmatory will invariably result. One can have solid Biblical Beliefs that Abortion is wrong and homosexuality is a sin but, we Believers are guilty of fighting these Issues as the world does as we get enmeshed in the political process, and thus our "light" is dimmed on the Issues we so strongly oppose. when we align ourselves with Political Parties {as most Evangelicals claim an alignment with the GOP] we further dim that "light of Christ" because we accept other Issues that the Republicans support that are not exactly Biblical, and accept  and believe so many politically biases arguments supporting those other Issues. Lower taxes and gun rights are but a couple of the many biased-filled arguments.
Colossians 2:8 gives us a very stern warning as to how any of us can be "cheated" by things which are not according to Christ in a worldly way, which I believe describes Politics very well in this Society in which we live.

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #4 on: Tue Jan 01, 2013 - 06:43:40 »



Offline Jdm

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #5 on: Wed Jan 23, 2013 - 21:34:49 »
I increasingly find myself disaffected by politics and not able to support any political party. The Republican Party takes conservative positions on issues like abortion which I support but show an absence of compassion for vulnerable people like the poor, disabled, immigrants, minority groups, some of whom are Christians and suffering. I am an almost nightly listener to the Christian Television Network's overnight program America's Prayer Meeting where people call in for prayer. Some of the suffering is immense with people without a source of income, about to be thrown out of homes and apartments, unable to pay for needed medical treatment, with no where to turn except this all night prayer meeting, supported by the donations of Christians and struggling to remain on the air. I would like to believe that Christians could and would be willing and able to shoulder the responsibility of helping hurting  people here in America and abroad. However I believe without government programs like Social Security, Medicaid, SSI, medicare, destitution and suffering would be far greater.  I am a Charismatic Christian, conservative on social issues but well to the left on issues of economic justice and not afraid to take unpopular stands.

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #6 on: Wed Jan 23, 2013 - 22:32:01 »
I increasingly find myself disaffected by politics and not able to support any political party. The Republican Party takes conservative positions on issues like abortion which I support but show an absence of compassion for vulnerable people like the poor, disabled, immigrants, minority groups, some of whom are Christians and suffering. I am an almost nightly listener to the Christian Television Network's overnight program America's Prayer Meeting where people call in for prayer. Some of the suffering is immense with people without a source of income, about to be thrown out of homes and apartments, unable to pay for needed medical treatment, with no where to turn except this all night prayer meeting, supported by the donations of Christians and struggling to remain on the air. I would like to believe that Christians could and would be willing and able to shoulder the responsibility of helping hurting  people here in America and abroad. However I believe without government programs like Social Security, Medicaid, SSI, medicare, destitution and suffering would be far greater.  I am a Charismatic Christian, conservative on social issues but well to the left on issues of economic justice and not afraid to take unpopular stands.

You are only to the left if you believe government should provide the economic justice. That is the role of Christianty, not a secular government.

Offline Jdm

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #7 on: Wed Jan 23, 2013 - 22:49:28 »
I presume that you are implying that a real Christian can't hold my political beliefs. Correct? This is exactly  the reason why I need to keep on speaking.

Offline Jaime

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #8 on: Thu Jan 24, 2013 - 05:58:20 »
Government should insure opportunity, not fix the results. I believe that is an American view. If you believe that Republicans are anti poor, I would say you are wrong. Republicans want to raise everyone's ship. Demos want and NEED a dependent electorate. As I have said many times, I have never worked for a poor man. The rich create jobs while creating wealth. Hurt the rich, hurt job creators. A job is the best known welfare program. It only seems like good vs evil if you listen to a constant demonizing drumbeat from the left. It is not a Christian party vs an uncaring party............Except on the abortion issue. If we continue on the slope of the culture of death, could euthanasia of the inconvenient elderly be far behind, solving the Social Security and Medicare issue ultimately. Let's get real!

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #9 on: Thu Jan 24, 2013 - 09:42:43 »
I presume that you are implying that a real Christian can't hold my political beliefs. Correct? This is exactly  the reason why I need to keep on speaking.
Not my place to set the rules on what's a "real Christian". That is something each and every one must find on their own. My personal belief is that followers of Christ are meant to be the teachers, the caregivers, the providers; the essence of everything that represents love. We are to be that shining light on the hill drawing more and more to Him simply by the way we live. We are meant to be the example of all that's good. None of that is the role of a secular government, such as we have. I further believe socalled "Christians" must shoulder much of the blame for the mess we now find ourselves in. Too many have farmed out their personal and collective responsibilities to government so they are free to seek out the pleasures of the world. We try very hard to convince ourselves that we are giving, sacrificing, and loving, but an itemizing of the worldly things we cherish and possess speaks otherwise. Look no further than the prosperity gospel that has become so popular, or the oft quoted line of Scripture that there "will always be the poor among us." These are nothing more than rationalizations to not meet the responsibility of allowing Christ to live in and through us. And in that rationalization we now expect government to solve all the problems.

There are enough who consider themselves "real Christians" in this country to solve all the problems, but we don't. Instead we turn to government. That is our failure, not the failure of government. And if we actually worked on solving those problems, there would be an ever increasing number of "real Christians" helping to solve the problems! Again, we are meant to be that light, and if that light ever shines it will draw more and more to it. We just have to have the courage to shine.

Once you take on a political idealogy, once you put a label on yourself, once you start expecting there to be political solutions for everything, you are lost. Well, most of us "real Christians" are lost. And perhaps in the end, we are not real.

Offline Jdm

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #10 on: Fri Jan 25, 2013 - 23:29:39 »
Politics is unfortunately can be a a distraction from Christian work and can become divisive. However it is very apparent to me that  if not for government programs many people in this country would be living under Dickensian conditions and destitution. Christian charity would not be a sufficient force and has never been throughout American history. I would like to believe that we could have communities resembling the second chapter of the book of Acts and this might be possible on a limited scale. However I believe that Christian  working together can do much to help people live transformed lives, partcularly when the emphasis is on Jesus and his saving power.

Offline jmldn2

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #11 on: Tue Feb 12, 2013 - 13:19:41 »
Very carefully.

I believe each christian should be as involved in politics as much as they can.  This country needs christians in the governing process.  We need laws for our country which do not contradict God's laws.  This country needs to return to its christian roots and we need to be aware as christians what is happening to our country and what we as individuals can do. ::applause::

Offline Stucky

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #12 on: Tue Feb 12, 2013 - 20:55:46 »
Government should insure opportunity, not fix the results. I believe that is an American view. If you believe that Republicans are anti poor, I would say you are wrong. Republicans want to raise everyone's ship. Demos want and NEED a dependent electorate. As I have said many times, I have never worked for a poor man. The rich create jobs while creating wealth. Hurt the rich, hurt job creators. A job is the best known welfare program. It only seems like good vs evil if you listen to a constant demonizing drumbeat from the left. It is not a Christian party vs an uncaring party............Except on the abortion issue. If we continue on the slope of the culture of death, could euthanasia of the inconvenient elderly be far behind, solving the Social Security and Medicare issue ultimately. Let's get real!

 ::applause::  Well said.

Offline jmldn2

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #13 on: Wed Feb 13, 2013 - 12:23:20 »
Jamie, well said indeed. 

Crowcamp, real christians can do God's work and still be involved with politics.  Would that we had more christians in politics who would work for God in that arena.

Offline Jamesone5

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #14 on: Fri Feb 15, 2013 - 05:38:47 »
Maybe this has always been the case in this Country, but we have a Political system right now where it's all very much of the "world" and the  very strong conforming elements the world can produce. And it's usually the more Radical elements on both sides of the major Parties who control the debates.

On the Republican side, there really is a definitive sense that not only is greed OK, but it's needed for a vibrant economy. And the word  "freedom" is invoked to justify greed, along with many other arguments. As "the love of money produces it's many evils" a lot of the arguments that people adopt on the GOP side is a sense of personal selfishness. During the Healthcare debates over Obamacare, one argument that got a lot of traction in arguing against it all could be summed up as "Me and how it all affects me". That the Government might force "me" to pay more because "I" would  have to subsidize all those deadbeats in our society as well. And the GOP certainly has an abundance of false teachers who, through their radio and television programs will cause many to bear a lot of "false witness" against Obama and Democrats and thus people end up passing on a lot of political nonsense because they have "lifted up these false teachers who simply tell them what they want to hear politically.  To be sure, the GOP and the worldly elements of it  all is not as "of Christ" as it pretends to be. Many Christians simply fall into the very strong conforming elements of this world by believing in "man" and his so-called "right" political affiliations to fix what ails us a a society

On the Democrat side, I do believe there are many Secularists who tend to lead some of the debates. That somehow, if our secular government throws enough money at a particular problem or provide more "safety nets" for the poorer in our society, that it all will simply work out in the end. They have their "false teachers teaching what itching ears want to hear" as well to their faithful.

Over the years, I have listened to many of the arguments for and against this "Wall' and whether there should be that element that Separates Church from State. To be sure, as a Believer I really believe there should be a Wall, at least adopted personally. In our Society today, politics present so much that can pull me into conforming into worldly ways and beliefs and thus pull me away from "what is of Christ" so very much.

Offline jmldn2

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #15 on: Fri Feb 15, 2013 - 10:57:39 »
On the Republican side, there really is a definitive sense that not only is greed OK, but it's needed for a vibrant economy. And the word  "freedom" is invoked to justify greed, along with many other arguments. As "the love of money produces it's many evils" a lot of the arguments that people adopt on the GOP side is a sense of personal selfishness. During the Healthcare debates over Obamacare, one argument that got a lot of traction in arguing against it all could be summed up as "Me and how it all affects me". That the Government might force "me" to pay more because "I" would  have to subsidize all those deadbeats in our society as well. And the GOP certainly has an abundance of false teachers who, through their radio and television programs will cause many to bear a lot of "false witness" against Obama and Democrats and thus people end up passing on a lot of political nonsense because they have "lifted up these false teachers who simply tell them what they want to hear politically.  To be sure, the GOP and the worldly elements of it  all is not as "of Christ" as it pretends to be. Many Christians simply fall into the very strong conforming elements of this world by believing in "man" and his so-called "right" political affiliations to fix what ails us a a society
Jamesone5


I disagree with this assessment.  The USA is suppose to be the land of opportunity for all who put forth the effort to be successful.  Taking from the rich to give to the poor was tried in 1917 by the Bolshvicks and it did not work for Russia and it will not work for America.  If fair share is what this administration wants, then overhaul the tax code for everyone. 

As for Obamacare, regarding false teachers ....that was pretty much done under false pretensions... as this legislation was passed without any of the written documents read fully.. and now it is coming to light just how expensive and unequal this bill will become.

There is secularism everywhere and the government is not immuned.  However, I believe that there are christian men and women who have a talent and a passion to try to get as much done in our government that would be fair and equiable for all mankind. 

Both parties could use a good "housecleaning" and an immediate return the morality
.
« Last Edit: Fri Feb 15, 2013 - 11:01:06 by jmldn2 »

Offline jmldn2

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #16 on: Fri Feb 15, 2013 - 10:59:01 »
On the Republican side, there really is a definitive sense that not only is greed OK, but it's needed for a vibrant economy. And the word  "freedom" is invoked to justify greed, along with many other arguments. As "the love of money produces it's many evils" a lot of the arguments that people adopt on the GOP side is a sense of personal selfishness. During the Healthcare debates over Obamacare, one argument that got a lot of traction in arguing against it all could be summed up as "Me and how it all affects me". That the Government might force "me" to pay more because "I" would  have to subsidize all those deadbeats in our society as well. And the GOP certainly has an abundance of false teachers who, through their radio and television programs will cause many to bear a lot of "false witness" against Obama and Democrats and thus people end up passing on a lot of political nonsense because they have "lifted up these false teachers who simply tell them what they want to hear politically.  To be sure, the GOP and the worldly elements of it  all is not as "of Christ" as it pretends to be. Many Christians simply fall into the very strong conforming elements of this world by believing in "man" and his so-called "right" political affiliations to fix what ails us a a society
Jamesone5 "


I disagree with this assessment.  The USA is suppose to be the land of opportunity for all who put forth the effort to be successful.  Taking from the rich to give to the poor was tried in 1917 by the Bolshvicks and it did not work for Russia and it will not work for America.  If fair share is what this administration wants, then overhaul the tax code for everyone. 

As for Obamacare, regarding false teachers ....that was pretty much done under false pretensions... as this legislation was passed without any of the written documents read fully.. and now it is coming to light just how expensive and unequal this bill will become.

There is secularism everywhere and the government is not immuned.  However, I believe that there are christian men and women who have a talent and a passion to try to get as much done in our government that would be fair and equiable for all mankind. 

Both parties could use a good "housecleaning" and an immediate return the morality.

Offline jmldn2

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #17 on: Fri Feb 15, 2013 - 11:00:03 »
On the Republican side, there really is a definitive sense that not only is greed OK, but it's needed for a vibrant economy. And the word  "freedom" is invoked to justify greed, along with many other arguments. As "the love of money produces it's many evils" a lot of the arguments that people adopt on the GOP side is a sense of personal selfishness. During the Healthcare debates over Obamacare, one argument that got a lot of traction in arguing against it all could be summed up as "Me and how it all affects me". That the Government might force "me" to pay more because "I" would  have to subsidize all those deadbeats in our society as well. And the GOP certainly has an abundance of false teachers who, through their radio and television programs will cause many to bear a lot of "false witness" against Obama and Democrats and thus people end up passing on a lot of political nonsense because they have "lifted up these false teachers who simply tell them what they want to hear politically.  To be sure, the GOP and the worldly elements of it  all is not as "of Christ" as it pretends to be. Many Christians simply fall into the very strong conforming elements of this world by believing in "man" and his so-called "right" political affiliations to fix what ails us a a society
Jamesone5


I disagree with this assessment.  The USA is suppose to be the land of opportunity for all who put forth the effort to be successful.  Taking from the rich to give to the poor was tried in 1917 by the Bolshvicks and it did not work for Russia and it will not work for America.  If fair share is what this administration wants, then overhaul the tax code for everyone. 

As for Obamacare, regarding false teachers ....that was pretty much done under false pretensions... as this legislation was passed without any of the written documents read fully.. and now it is coming to light just how expensive and unequal this bill will become.

There is secularism everywhere and the government is not immuned.  However, I believe that there are christian men and women who have a talent and a passion to try to get as much done in our government that would be fair and equiable for all mankind. 

Both parties could use a good "housecleaning" and an immediate return the morality.

Offline jmldn2

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #18 on: Fri Feb 15, 2013 - 11:04:21 »
Okay folks as you can see I am not very good at modifying my posts.  Only meant to have modified once and yet I've done it 3 times.  Sorry and hope to learn how to do it better.

Offline Jaime

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #19 on: Fri Feb 15, 2013 - 11:17:05 »
You probably clicked QUOTE rather than MODIFY

Offline Jamesone5

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #20 on: Fri Feb 15, 2013 - 12:49:11 »
On the Republican side, there really is a definitive sense that not only is greed OK, but it's needed for a vibrant economy. And the word  "freedom" is invoked to justify greed, along with many other arguments. As "the love of money produces it's many evils" a lot of the arguments that people adopt on the GOP side is a sense of personal selfishness. During the Healthcare debates over Obamacare, one argument that got a lot of traction in arguing against it all could be summed up as "Me and how it all affects me". That the Government might force "me" to pay more because "I" would  have to subsidize all those deadbeats in our society as well. And the GOP certainly has an abundance of false teachers who, through their radio and television programs will cause many to bear a lot of "false witness" against Obama and Democrats and thus people end up passing on a lot of political nonsense because they have "lifted up these false teachers who simply tell them what they want to hear politically.  To be sure, the GOP and the worldly elements of it  all is not as "of Christ" as it pretends to be. Many Christians simply fall into the very strong conforming elements of this world by believing in "man" and his so-called "right" political affiliations to fix what ails us a a society
Jamesone5


I disagree with this assessment.  The USA is suppose to be the land of opportunity for all who put forth the effort to be successful.  Taking from the rich to give to the poor was tried in 1917 by the Bolshvicks and it did not work for Russia and it will not work for America.  If fair share is what this administration wants, then overhaul the tax code for everyone. 

As for Obamacare, regarding false teachers ....that was pretty much done under false pretensions... as this legislation was passed without any of the written documents read fully.. and now it is coming to light just how expensive and unequal this bill will become.

There is secularism everywhere and the government is not immuned.  However, I believe that there are christian men and women who have a talent and a passion to try to get as much done in our government that would be fair and equiable for all mankind. 

Both parties could use a good "housecleaning" and an immediate return the morality
.

It really matters not what the Bolshiviks did in 1917 because it is comparing apples to oranges here as the political systems are different. And, the argument that we are stealing from the rich to give to the poor is really a non-argument when one considers the fact that in the 50's, the 60's and the 70's this Nation went through the greatest economic expansions in the History of the world through much higher tax rates. Yes, I would agree to overhaul the tax code for all of us, which is how I've e-mailed my Senators and Congressperson.

As to Obamacare and false teachers---no one on either side really solidly addressed the fact that it all comes down to the fact that higher premiums and less coverage will be the result for all of us, whether the system is overhauled or not. Too many Uninsured  that we all have to pay  for and a very dysfunctional Healthcare delivery system  and  thus the question remains--"Do we allow some controls to bring about a semblance of functionality and get more of the Uninsured covered Or do we continue to kick the can down the road? It's simply amazing how many non-healthcare related dollars we each pay out in the current system. At one point during the debates before the [admittedly]  "rammed-through" affordable Healthcare Act the Insurance and Hospital Industries were spending upwards of 10 million  a week to shape the  arguments of the public against it all---it all came down to how it would affect these Industries and their bottom lines.

Offline Jdm

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #21 on: Sat Feb 16, 2013 - 00:53:04 »
As Christian's I believe we should be helping the poor and needy. About 14 years ago I joined a church which was against all government aasistance to the poor and needy. This concept was part of the doctrine of the church and was discussed in a class that they called Foundations that had to be taken for membership. They felt that it was the responsibility of the church and families to help people not the government. I told them that I did not agree with this but they accepted me into the church because it was not part of their core doctrine. I am willing to bet that there are members of this forum who recieve government benefits: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security Disability, Veterans benefits. Generallly in our society unless you are elderly or disabled medical benefits are part of your employment contract or agreement. There are however many people who work and who may have a serious medical condition, for example diabetes, which is very common and yet have no medical insurance. Because they cannot afford essential medications or treatments  they do wthout until they become disabled to the point that they no longer are able to work and then are able to qualify for medical assistance. People who have adeqaute medical insurance in many cases either lack compassion or awareness of what people without medical insurance or adequate medical insurance face. As Christians we have a responsibility to be our brothers keeper, to care about what happens to others and to support government policy that promotes the health of all of our citizens. Please understand that I believe in hard work, and sacrifice, including sacrifice for needy brothers and sisters, as laying down our lives is part of the narrow path that we must walk.

Offline fcadcock

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #22 on: Sat Feb 16, 2013 - 01:47:05 »
I would not classify Social Security or VA Disability as "government benefits," as those are paid for in advance (with the payment of VA disability being made in blood) and are things which the beneficiary has a contractual entitlement to receive.  These are truly "entitlement programs" which both serve great functions in our nation.  I, as well as other members of my family, get VA Disability benefits which we earned on the battlefield.  Other members of my family have paid into the SSA their entire working lives with the understanding that after they retired, they would receive that money back as monthly payments to help with the costs of living after retirement.  These aren't unearned programs which should be done away with. 

I do agree that most of the social safety nets in place today should be done by the private sector, individuals, and churches.  The problem though, is that many of these people and groups simply refuse to help others either through a lack of religious belief or civic duty and therefore the government has stepped in to take over where private groups have stopped short. 

Offline Red Baker

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #23 on: Sat Feb 16, 2013 - 06:14:22 »
Very carefully.  We should have as little to do with it as possible.  You have a right to vote, but not the right to speak evil of those in powers.  This world is not our world, we are looking and seeking for another one.  We should have the mind of Christ concerning such things. John 18:36.  We should never allow them or anyone else to speak evil of the God we profess to love and believe in.  This is their world, let them have it. I refuse to listen to men such as radio and TV men who are on each sides speaking evil of each other, and wasting my time, hearing lies from both sides!

RB

Offline gbzone

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #24 on: Thu Mar 07, 2013 - 09:10:06 »
The Lord should be Lord of our politics as well.
If we have been translated from thne kingdom  of darkness into the kingdom of Gods dear Son.

Then the greater  always included the lesser.Never the other way round.

Then it is the 'politics' if you will of the kingdom of God that should rule our hearts and minds .Not democrats or republicans  or  UK parties.

Think of three different countries . Make them different  and that you have some knowlodge of.

If what rules and governs that country  is found to rule and govern your country.Then what you find in that country will be found in yours.
That beign true .So also is this.
If what rules and governs a person  in that country ,is still found to rule and govern  them in your country.
Then what they had and built there they will have and build in your country.

In respect of the UK.

The Saxons did it.
The Danes.
Vikings
Normans.
and indeed so did the English.

That being  irefutable .

This also is true.

If what rules and governs heaven. Is found to rule and govern earth. Then what you find in heaven.You will find on earth.

or have you forgotten "Thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth a sit is in heaven"?

That being true .This also is true.

If what ruled and governed a person  in heaven. Was or is found  to rule and govern that person  on earth.
Then what they have in heaven .They will manifest and build on earth.

The kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ"
and"........ every knee shall.  bow and every tounge confess that Jesus  Christ is Lord"

in Christ
gerald

Offline Reverend M

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #25 on: Thu Nov 14, 2013 - 03:15:41 »
Very carefully.  We should have as little to do with it as possible.  You have a right to vote, but not the right to speak evil of those in powers.  This world is not our world, we are looking and seeking for another one.  We should have the mind of Christ concerning such things. John 18:36.  We should never allow them or anyone else to speak evil of the God we profess to love and believe in.  This is their world, let them have it. I refuse to listen to men such as radio and TV men who are on each sides speaking evil of each other, and wasting my time, hearing lies from both sides!

RB

Yeah, I guess we should just ignore the North Koreans and the atrocities of a certain other religion that will remain nameless, and not bother supporting the politicians who come against them or thwarting the politicians who enable them. We should ignore the plight of the unborn, torn apart in their mothers wombs, where God Himself knit them together and say nothing of the politicians who support, encourage, and expect you to pay for such outrages.

God will judge us for what we have done and not done in this world before we gain entrance to the next. This is not a dress rehearsal.

Offline Reverend M

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #26 on: Thu Nov 14, 2013 - 03:31:44 »
As Christians we have a responsibility to be our brothers keeper, to care about what happens to others and to support government policy that promotes the health of all of our citizens. Please understand that I believe in hard work, and sacrifice, including sacrifice for needy brothers and sisters, as laying down our lives is part of the narrow path that we must walk.


The problem is that the government is NOT there when needed, I have had not one but TWO disabilities (one was corrected by surgery that I had to go back to work to obtain) and was refused SSDI because I have heard it said they refuse everybody the first time. Plus, you have to live with your disability and be out of work for a YEAR before you can even apply for SSDI.

Then to add insult to injury I see things like this:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/20/adult-baby-claims-disability-checks-will-continue-despite-coburn-complaint/

Once upon a time you may have been able to count on the government to keep it's word, that time has passed. I entered the ministry to do just what you are suggesting, to care for the sick, but I am only one person.
« Last Edit: Thu Nov 14, 2013 - 03:35:12 by Reverend M »

Offline chosenone

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #27 on: Thu Nov 14, 2013 - 04:19:57 »
We should pray and fight for what we believe in. My Member of parliament is a Christian, so I have no problem voting for him. I believe that we should vote, that its our responsibility, and many believers are called into politics and I admire them, especially in the UK where being a Christian in the public eye is very hard and not at all popular.

Offline God calls me Olivia

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #28 on: Wed Feb 12, 2014 - 15:30:28 »
We as believers need to understand politics in relation to our purpose in this world. Our purpose is to bring people into God's kingdom, not to be concerned with the cares (or issues) of this world. God's kingdom is the believers real world for the Word says how God's kingdom is within the believer (Luke 17:21). If the believer is walking in the Spirit of God as opposed to the flesh (the things of this world) then that person is living in the Spirit of God's kingdom. This world and the kingdoms of this world are not God's world for Jesus himself said, "My kingdom is not of this world..." (John 18:36). Jesus also said speaking of this physical world that the "prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me (John 14:30). Again Jesus says of the believers and himself, "They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world" (John 17:16).

Our purpose is then not of the things of the world, but the bringing of those people in the world into God's world.  We should heed the warning of Jesus in Matthew 13:22 when he says, "He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world...choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful." The purpose of Jesus was to suffer and die for our sins so that we could "have life" and have it "more abundantly" ( John 10:10). We are to walk in faith, not fear. Hebrews 11:1 tells us that "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." By faith, even one believer is more powerful than all evil combined because they are living from God's Spirit. Believers should have so much faith in God that they believe great movements of God's love and power spread throughout the world causing the people to come to salvation rather than focusing on this sin or that one while people are dying and going to hell. Rather than the message of the gospel being choked out by the things of the world help to get people saved so they will understand and want to be part of God's wonderful ways.

Offline MetalMario

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #29 on: Sat Jul 05, 2014 - 21:24:31 »
I think Christians should just stay very far away from politics. It's not as if our involvement is going to improve anything. The world is only going to get worse as Jesus prepares to return, so what's the point? We can only poison our own souls by getting involved in the pettiness, corruption, and duplicity of politics. Just leave the godless heathens alone to prepare the way for the anti-Christ.

Offline One Mind

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #30 on: Sun Sep 21, 2014 - 11:19:19 »
Romans 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

Even the one's we think are bad guys. Is criticizing the government rebelling against it? Sometimes I don't think free speech is a Christian thing either because we are reminded in the bible to control our tongues.

If there is no authority except that which God has established, then that would mean Hitler was in authority, the ruler, and God established that. That is sheer nonsense, and is a red flag, that points to something.

So what does it point to?  It points to text being inserted by someone in collusion with the roman empire who would use what became Christianity  as a tool of control by the empire.

The origin of the NT books should be doubted by the serious religious person, IMO. And as Thomas Jefferson said long ago, one has to dig for the diamonds mixed in with the dung, that is the NT.  Great revelatory facts are contained in the NT, but they are scattered over these huge pile of dung that supports Christianity being the religion of an evil empire.  Those with insight will separate the wheat from the chaff, those without insight will accept anything that give the "I" consciousness, the ego, a sense of security. Psychological security.

To the OP, one can only vote for the lessor of two evils, as both sides are so corrupt, unrighteous, that if you feel a responsibility to partiscipate in this republic(oligarchy in reality)  one must hold the nose and cast the votes. So one is put in a bind, and if you want to vote against the legalized murder of defenseless human beings, you are also voting for the individualists who do not believe in gov't safety nets for the poor, even as we know from the great depression experience that the demand of the poor far outstripped those private charities who were trying to help. It appears that not all the hearts of men are charitable. Which should be no great surprise since the world is so burdened down with sin, and not caring for others is of course a sin. So is greed, ambition, hate, murder, which are all things created by the "I" consciousness that we call the "self" the ego.

Offline One Mind

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #31 on: Sun Sep 21, 2014 - 11:32:12 »
I presume that you are implying that a real Christian can't hold my political beliefs. Correct? This is exactly  the reason why I need to keep on speaking.
Not my place to set the rules on what's a "real Christian". That is something each and every one must find on their own. My personal belief is that followers of Christ are meant to be the teachers, the caregivers, the providers; the essence of everything that represents love. We are to be that shining light on the hill drawing more and more to Him simply by the way we live. We are meant to be the example of all that's good. None of that is the role of a secular government, such as we have. I further believe socalled "Christians" must shoulder much of the blame for the mess we now find ourselves in. Too many have farmed out their personal and collective responsibilities to government so they are free to seek out the pleasures of the world. We try very hard to convince ourselves that we are giving, sacrificing, and loving, but an itemizing of the worldly things we cherish and possess speaks otherwise. Look no further than the prosperity gospel that has become so popular, or the oft quoted line of Scripture that there "will always be the poor among us." These are nothing more than rationalizations to not meet the responsibility of allowing Christ to live in and through us. And in that rationalization we now expect government to solve all the problems.

There are enough who consider themselves "real Christians" in this country to solve all the problems, but we don't. Instead we turn to government. That is our failure, not the failure of government. And if we actually worked on solving those problems, there would be an ever increasing number of "real Christians" helping to solve the problems! Again, we are meant to be that light, and if that light ever shines it will draw more and more to it. We just have to have the courage to shine.

Once you take on a political idealogy, once you put a label on yourself, once you start expecting there to be political solutions for everything, you are lost. Well, most of us "real Christians" are lost. And perhaps in the end, we are not real.

Of course the only real solution involves a change in the human nature of humanity.  If humanity could change, move away from the violence, the hatred, the selfish self centeredness that has ruled humanity for the last 50,000 years (or 6000 years if you are a literalist) there would be no need for social safety nets, run by the gov't.  Today there are not enough charitable human hearts to care for all of our poor, as we found out during the great depression. The demand far exceed the supply, which in part led to the expansion and federal involvement in social safety nets. We had to force the non charitable to take care of others, through a part of their income taxes being used for this effort. For without the help of the non chartiable, kids could literally starve to death in this nation, or die from exposure.  That is the fact of the matter. 

Offline One Mind

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #32 on: Sun Sep 21, 2014 - 11:45:34 »
Quote
I disagree with this assessment.  The USA is suppose to be the land of opportunity for all who put forth the effort to be successful.  Taking from the rich to give to the poor was tried in 1917 by the Bolshvicks and it did not work for Russia and it will not work for America.  If fair share is what this administration wants, then overhaul the tax code for everyone. 

As for Obamacare, regarding false teachers ....that was pretty much done under false pretensions... as this legislation was passed without any of the written documents read fully.. and now it is coming to light just how expensive and unequal this bill will become.

There is secularism everywhere and the government is not immuned.  However, I believe that there are christian men and women who have a talent and a passion to try to get as much done in our government that would be fair and equiable for all mankind. 

Both parties could use a good "housecleaning" and an immediate return the morality


What does it mean to take from the rich to give to the poor? You mean using a part of our income tax, that only some of the rich pay, but all middle class people indeed pay, and instead of using all of the tax money to kill others, in these never ending futile wars, that we use it to care for the poor?  Is this what you mean? 

Many conservative minded people are fine and dandy, and even desireous of taxes being used to wage war, but they don't like tax money being used to care for human beings who are poor. They don't  mind financing the killing of others, but greatly object to helping suffering human beings.  And they then use the argument of the murderous history of socialism, communism as an example of taking from the rich to give to the poor. 

Instead, why don't they use the story that comes from Acts, in the NT, when the people waiting for Pentacost, the well do do, sold their possessions, and gave their entire wealth to the apostles to redistribute it to that vast group of humanity, to each according to his need.  Now, what these people did looks like some sort of socialism, but we must not forget that the inspiration to do this came from God. If you will also recall, when one man and wife got selfish and kept some back for themselves, a little pile, God struck both dead, first the husband, then the wife.     

So the conservative minded brothers need to consider their own scripture and think about this a bit more, perhaps?

Offline Nevertheless

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #33 on: Sun Sep 21, 2014 - 12:01:50 »
One Mind, you need to learn the difference between a gift freely given and a tax extorted under penalty of law. You also need to learn the difference between being selfish and lying to the Holy Spirit. [I suggest that you reread Acts 5.]

Offline Johnb

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #34 on: Sun Sep 21, 2014 - 13:15:24 »
Quote Never
One Mind, you need to learn the difference between a gift freely given and a tax extorted under penalty of law. You also need to learn the difference between being selfish and lying to the Holy Spirit. [I suggest that you reread Acts 5.]


Yes .  Also it is odd that the top 10% of folks pay 86% of all taxes and yet are accused of not paying their fair share.