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Author Topic: How should Christians approach politics?  (Read 35932 times)

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Offline revmitchell

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #60 on: December 08, 2010, 08:52:06 AM »

I think the quality of people would improve over time.

Based on what?

Quote
As it is, we know they will never improve.


No of course not if people like yourself are only focused on systems rather than sound people.

Quote
But there are many that think as you do, rev. No need in trying anything different because it would never work.

Don't equate my disagreement with you as a desire to do nothing different. Its just not honest.


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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #60 on: December 08, 2010, 08:52:06 AM »

Offline crowcamp

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #61 on: December 08, 2010, 08:53:28 AM »
I would say that shows a desire to not see anything different.

So there is no other motivation? There is no other desire except the one that supports your intentions? I would say this accusation against others is not honest as it refuses to consider other intentions or views. You cannot really support this view.
My only "intention" is to try to make things better. What I'm offering may not be the best way, could even fail miserably, but at least it is not just doing what we've always done as Jaime advocates.

I'm not a smart man, but at least am willing to try a different way. To say we should just do what we've always done shows no willingness for change. I'm open to ideas. To this point, none have been presented. Repeating, I would say that shows a desire to not see anything different.
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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #61 on: December 08, 2010, 08:53:28 AM »

Offline crowcamp

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #62 on: December 08, 2010, 08:59:27 AM »

I think the quality of people would improve over time.

Based on what?

Quote
As it is, we know they will never improve.


No of course not if people like yourself are only focused on systems rather than sound people.

Quote
But there are many that think as you do, rev. No need in trying anything different because it would never work.

Don't equate my disagreement with you as a desire to do nothing different. Its just not honest.


Based on those wanting to be elected coming to understand they will not receive the votes of that particular bloc unless they are truly representing that bloc. Also, based on that bloc eventually reaching a point where they can present their own candidates.

And you are misreading what I'm saying. I'm not focused on a "system", but rather the change of that system with the right people.

And....................... if you desire different, then present some ideas, please. Otherwise, you appear to think along the same line as Jaime and simply disagee without offering alternatives. Of course, there is the alternative to just keep doing what we've always done. If you consider that a real alternative.
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Offline revmitchell

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #63 on: December 08, 2010, 09:02:41 AM »
Repeating, I would say that shows a desire to not see anything different.

Of course you do. That fits your agenda. What is not being said (because most everyone else already understands this) is what I have told you. Focusing on systems is doomed to fail from the start. Every system is corruptible. Even yours. What we need to focus on is finding sound quality candidates and vote for them. If you want to get a million people together to do something get them to vote for good candidates. This is basic and should just be understood but I will explain this to you anyway, if you are not voting then no good candidate can be voted for. That is antithetical to the change you say you want. You are throwing out the baby with the bath water.

And your repeated accusation is, again, not honest. It is possible is shows something much different as I have just explained to you.

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #63 on: December 08, 2010, 09:02:41 AM »
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Offline crowcamp

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #64 on: December 08, 2010, 09:54:27 AM »
Repeating, I would say that shows a desire to not see anything different.

Of course you do. That fits your agenda. What is not being said (because most everyone else already understands this) is what I have told you. Focusing on systems is doomed to fail from the start. Every system is corruptible. Even yours. What we need to focus on is finding sound quality candidates and vote for them. If you want to get a million people together to do something get them to vote for good candidates. This is basic and should just be understood but I will explain this to you anyway, if you are not voting then no good candidate can be voted for. That is antithetical to the change you say you want. You are throwing out the baby with the bath water.

And your repeated accusation is, again, not honest. It is possible is shows something much different as I have just explained to you.
Agreed- "sound quality candidates". And by making a unified statement of not supporting the unsound and unqualified, we can hopefully see the sound and quality emerge. Get those million (or more) together to vote for good, but do not simply vote for that which is the least bad. As stated several times now, the unified action of not voting is not intended to go on forever. It is a statement, and there would be much more to the statement than simply not voting. It is saying, we, this group, united, will no longer support the flawed. We will go another way and if you want us back you have to come that way. We will no longer follow, but will now lead. And BTW, as Christians that is what we suppposed to do. Lead.
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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #64 on: December 08, 2010, 09:54:27 AM »



Offline Jaime

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #65 on: December 08, 2010, 10:09:25 AM »
Crow again as usual you have offered nothing. Voting for good people of course offers the possibility of change. Not voting offers no hope of anything but the worst of the same.

I think what you think you mean is a whole different system of government like a parliamenary system or something. But with our system voting is the only hope and our system is the best in the world.

The evil ones in the world would love nothing more than millions of Christians sitting on their collective thumbs in a meaningless and counterproductive protest.

But good people not boting is exactly what the folks you claim to not like, actually hope for, a moronic Christian sit down strike in the polls. That is called stepping aside and acquiescing to evil. 
So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. - Milton Friedman

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. - Milton Friedman

Offline crowcamp

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #66 on: December 08, 2010, 10:17:15 AM »
Crow again as usual you have offered nothing. Voting for good people of course offers the possibility of change. Not voting offers no hope of anything but the worst of the same.

I think what you think you mean is a whole different system of government like a parliamenary system or something. But with our system voting is the only hope and our system is the best in the world.

The evil ones in the world would love nothing more than millions of Christians sitting on their collective thumbs in a meaningless and counterproductive protest.

But good people not boting is exactly what the folks you claim to not like, actually hope for, a moronic Christian sit down strike in the polls. That is called stepping aside and acquiescing to evil. 
Nope, no "whole different system of government", just not your "vote and hope" approach that is a proven failure.

Step off the sled for just a moment. Do not add to the weight that's carrying it down the slope. It's a start. If you are not willing to start, if you are not willing to step off, then you can be sure the sled keeps going just as it always has.

"Meaningless and counterproductive"? Look at what you've done, continue to do, and advocate doing going forward, then consider that statement.

Please call me when the meaningless and counterproductive comes to an end.
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Offline revmitchell

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #67 on: December 08, 2010, 10:33:08 AM »

Nope, no "whole different system of government", just not your "vote and hope" approach that is a proven failure.




So how do you know that is his approach. You impose something you cannot know. Just because its not your ridiculous way does not mean it is simply vote and hope.

Offline crowcamp

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #68 on: December 08, 2010, 10:40:11 AM »

Nope, no "whole different system of government", just not your "vote and hope" approach that is a proven failure.




So how do you know that is his approach. You impose something you cannot know. Just because its not your ridiculous way does not mean it is simply vote and hope.
No, rev, it's what Jaime keeps stating- over and over and over. Just continue to vote and all will get better.

That's how I know. He keeps telling me.
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Offline Jaime

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #69 on: December 08, 2010, 10:40:18 AM »
It's just his platitudinous ludicrousity, Rev.

And bo Crow, your way is not even a start, it is a non start,
So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. - Milton Friedman

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. - Milton Friedman

Offline revmitchell

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #70 on: December 08, 2010, 10:41:32 AM »

Nope, no "whole different system of government", just not your "vote and hope" approach that is a proven failure.




So how do you know that is his approach. You impose something you cannot know. Just because its not your ridiculous way does not mean it is simply vote and hope.
No, rev, it's what Jaime keeps stating- over and over and over. Just continue to vote and all will get better.

That's how I know. He keeps telling me.


Provide the exact quote please.

Offline crowcamp

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #71 on: December 08, 2010, 11:15:07 AM »

Nope, no "whole different system of government", just not your "vote and hope" approach that is a proven failure.




So how do you know that is his approach. You impose something you cannot know. Just because its not your ridiculous way does not mean it is simply vote and hope.
No, rev, it's what Jaime keeps stating- over and over and over. Just continue to vote and all will get better.

That's how I know. He keeps telling me.


Provide the exact quote please.
There is no "exact" quote. There are hundreds of statements all saying the same thing. The common thread is voting for "the lesser of two evils" and eventually things will get better. Providing one here, but can find many, many more. And that is a "vote and hope" approach if there ever was one.

Until Christ is on the ballot Crow, it is ALWAYS the lesser of two evils, at the very very best.- from reply #24 of this thread.

Also, review the thread "I don't vote" in General Discussion. There are many more, but that's a start.

Added another Jaime quote from nearby post.

But with our system voting is the only hope and our system is the best in the world.

Vote and hope.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2010, 11:23:19 AM by crowcamp »
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Offline revmitchell

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #72 on: December 08, 2010, 11:23:29 AM »


There is no "exact" quote.

Then you have a problem.


Quote
There are hundreds of statements all saying the same thing. The common thread is voting for "the lesser of two evils"

Says you with no evidence.

 

Quote
Until Christ is on the ballot Crow, it is ALWAYS the lesser of two evils, at the very very best.- from reply #24 of this thread.



This is not an example of your claim.

Offline crowcamp

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #73 on: December 08, 2010, 11:26:43 AM »


There is no "exact" quote.

Then you have a problem.


Quote
There are hundreds of statements all saying the same thing. The common thread is voting for "the lesser of two evils"

Says you with no evidence.

 

Quote
Until Christ is on the ballot Crow, it is ALWAYS the lesser of two evils, at the very very best.- from reply #24 of this thread.



This is not an example of your claim.
If you want to know Jaime's views, review his posts! You don't want evidence, but just argument. I have to assume you also do not want change.

And go back to my previous post where I added a quote for you.

And with that, I will waste no more time with you, rev.
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Offline Jaime

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #74 on: December 08, 2010, 11:36:43 AM »
Never fear Crow, I have wasted a couple of months with you.
So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. - Milton Friedman

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. - Milton Friedman