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Author Topic: How should Christians approach politics?  (Read 37546 times)

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Offline revmitchell

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #70 on: Wed Dec 08, 2010 - 11:41:32 »

Nope, no "whole different system of government", just not your "vote and hope" approach that is a proven failure.




So how do you know that is his approach. You impose something you cannot know. Just because its not your ridiculous way does not mean it is simply vote and hope.
No, rev, it's what Jaime keeps stating- over and over and over. Just continue to vote and all will get better.

That's how I know. He keeps telling me.


Provide the exact quote please.

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #70 on: Wed Dec 08, 2010 - 11:41:32 »

crowcamp

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #71 on: Wed Dec 08, 2010 - 12:15:07 »

Nope, no "whole different system of government", just not your "vote and hope" approach that is a proven failure.




So how do you know that is his approach. You impose something you cannot know. Just because its not your ridiculous way does not mean it is simply vote and hope.
No, rev, it's what Jaime keeps stating- over and over and over. Just continue to vote and all will get better.

That's how I know. He keeps telling me.


Provide the exact quote please.
There is no "exact" quote. There are hundreds of statements all saying the same thing. The common thread is voting for "the lesser of two evils" and eventually things will get better. Providing one here, but can find many, many more. And that is a "vote and hope" approach if there ever was one.

Until Christ is on the ballot Crow, it is ALWAYS the lesser of two evils, at the very very best.- from reply #24 of this thread.

Also, review the thread "I don't vote" in General Discussion. There are many more, but that's a start.

Added another Jaime quote from nearby post.

But with our system voting is the only hope and our system is the best in the world.

Vote and hope.
« Last Edit: Wed Dec 08, 2010 - 12:23:19 by crowcamp »

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #71 on: Wed Dec 08, 2010 - 12:15:07 »

Offline revmitchell

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #72 on: Wed Dec 08, 2010 - 12:23:29 »


There is no "exact" quote.

Then you have a problem.


Quote
There are hundreds of statements all saying the same thing. The common thread is voting for "the lesser of two evils"

Says you with no evidence.

 

Quote
Until Christ is on the ballot Crow, it is ALWAYS the lesser of two evils, at the very very best.- from reply #24 of this thread.



This is not an example of your claim.

crowcamp

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #73 on: Wed Dec 08, 2010 - 12:26:43 »


There is no "exact" quote.

Then you have a problem.


Quote
There are hundreds of statements all saying the same thing. The common thread is voting for "the lesser of two evils"

Says you with no evidence.

 

Quote
Until Christ is on the ballot Crow, it is ALWAYS the lesser of two evils, at the very very best.- from reply #24 of this thread.



This is not an example of your claim.
If you want to know Jaime's views, review his posts! You don't want evidence, but just argument. I have to assume you also do not want change.

And go back to my previous post where I added a quote for you.

And with that, I will waste no more time with you, rev.

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #73 on: Wed Dec 08, 2010 - 12:26:43 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline Jaime

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #74 on: Wed Dec 08, 2010 - 12:36:43 »
Never fear Crow, I have wasted a couple of months with you.

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #74 on: Wed Dec 08, 2010 - 12:36:43 »



Offline revmitchell

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #75 on: Wed Dec 08, 2010 - 12:39:20 »

 


. I have to assume you also do not want change.



And statements like this are just dishonest and not necessary. You in fact do not "have" to believe that. It is merely what you choose to claim and quite dishonestly. You work to intentionally distort the intent of the quote you provided to ensure it meets your agenda. Sad

Offline Jaime

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #76 on: Wed Dec 08, 2010 - 12:41:56 »
And you know as well as I that there is no non-evil choice until Christ returns. The point is to pick the least evil human being available, or sit it out in a huff and watch the most evil triumph. Even if 20 $illion Christians follow you advise, the mos evil choice will prevail.

Yoir view is a mega picture of the one talent servant hiding his talent.

Offline Jaime

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #77 on: Wed Dec 08, 2010 - 12:42:56 »
Ane the evil-est love that and thank you.

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #78 on: Wed Dec 08, 2010 - 12:44:52 »
And you know as well as I that there is no non-evil choice until Christ returns. The point is to pick the least evil human being available, or sit it out in a huff and watch the most evil triumph. Even if 20 $illion Christians follow you advise, the mos evil choice will prevail.

Yoir view is a mega picture of the one talent servant hiding his talent.
Nope, my vision is those declaring themselves to be followers of Christ actually follow Christ.

Good luck to you and the rev. Keep voting and watch nothing change.

I shall move on.

Offline revmitchell

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #79 on: Wed Dec 08, 2010 - 12:46:43 »
And you know as well as I that there is no non-evil choice until Christ returns. The point is to pick the least evil human being available, or sit it out in a huff and watch the most evil triumph. Even if 20 $illion Christians follow you advise, the mos evil choice will prevail.

Yoir view is a mega picture of the one talent servant hiding his talent.
Nope, my vision is those declaring themselves to be followers of Christ actually follow Christ.

Good luck to you and the rev. Keep voting and watch nothing change.

I shall move on.

What you need to do is admit and repent of your dishonest attempt to distort the post of others.

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #80 on: Wed Dec 08, 2010 - 12:49:17 »
And you know as well as I that there is no non-evil choice until Christ returns. The point is to pick the least evil human being available, or sit it out in a huff and watch the most evil triumph. Even if 20 $illion Christians follow you advise, the mos evil choice will prevail.

Yoir view is a mega picture of the one talent servant hiding his talent.
Nope, my vision is those declaring themselves to be followers of Christ actually follow Christ.

Good luck to you and the rev. Keep voting and watch nothing change.

I shall move on.

What you need to do is admit and repent of your dishonest attempt to distort the post of others.
Since neither you or Jaime have offered anything new in an attempt to make this world better, and simply want to be critical of the attempts of others, this conversation has become pointless.

Good luck and goodbye.

Offline Jaime

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #81 on: Wed Dec 08, 2010 - 14:08:28 »
Report back on how your sit in works out!

In the mean time I plan on walking with Christ AND helping elect good better and better folks. 

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #82 on: Wed Dec 08, 2010 - 14:30:20 »
Report back on how your sit in works out!

In the mean time I plan on walking with Christ AND helping elect good better and better folks. 
No, you plan on doing what you've always done while expecting a different result.

Sorry to have wasted your time. You can now return to your regularly scheduled program.

Pardon the interruption.

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #83 on: Tue Dec 14, 2010 - 15:50:26 »
Vote the issues not the party.

Offline Jaime

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #84 on: Tue Dec 14, 2010 - 16:05:24 »
That's what I do. It jst so happens that the GOP platform agrees with my views.

I would never vote for a Republican like Arlen Sphincter.......was.

There are some Dems I might vote for except for the fact if they were elected, it would empower the wrong bunch into positions of power on the congressional committees. Every Dem that gets elected, is one more vote in the leadership column for important committee chairmanships presently occupied by Barney Franks, et al.Unfortunately the R and D do count. 

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #85 on: Mon Dec 27, 2010 - 06:49:39 »

As I've already stated, the not voting is only one step in the process of change. It is the beginning. It creates the notice. A few million with a common purpose, well stated to the pols, acting in unity, could eventually have a huge effect on correcting the errors. Remember, their goal is getting elected. If a large bloc of votes are available, they'll conform to the wishes of that bloc. We may not be able to change the type of people that run for elected office, but in time we can greatly influence how they function while in office. Nothing can happen overnight, but it can over time.
 

So you're willing to use evil to affect change. Because we get one million behind us, the evil ones must listen out of greed for votes. Evidently at that time you plan on voting again huh? My question is if God be for you, who can be against you? Why do you need me instead of God to have an effect on your wanted outcome.

You talk of millions, Gideon talked of thousands, and God sent twenty thousand of them home from the battle; too many God said. The people would soon think it was them instead of the Lord who won the battle. How about just three hundred Crow?

Crow and his three hundred
Not only will he need bow
He is already sundered
Here it is a coming - Holy cow

He depended on us
Was there no other way
It doesn't seem just
We just laid in the hay

We gave up voting
to show them our will
Now they are gloating
As they pass us the bill

Less evil to come
More good do they say
This is the way for some
But let's do it another day

The world is all good again
Crow and Jaime united at last
Four more years of Obama to begin
Healthcare and politics - what a blast

crowcamp

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #86 on: Mon Dec 27, 2010 - 08:33:10 »

As I've already stated, the not voting is only one step in the process of change. It is the beginning. It creates the notice. A few million with a common purpose, well stated to the pols, acting in unity, could eventually have a huge effect on correcting the errors. Remember, their goal is getting elected. If a large bloc of votes are available, they'll conform to the wishes of that bloc. We may not be able to change the type of people that run for elected office, but in time we can greatly influence how they function while in office. Nothing can happen overnight, but it can over time.
 

So you're willing to use evil to affect change. Because we get one million behind us, the evil ones must listen out of greed for votes. Evidently at that time you plan on voting again huh? My question is if God be for you, who can be against you? Why do you need me instead of God to have an effect on your wanted outcome.

You talk of millions, Gideon talked of thousands, and God sent twenty thousand of them home from the battle; too many God said. The people would soon think it was them instead of the Lord who won the battle. How about just three hundred Crow?

Crow and his three hundred
Not only will he need bow
He is already sundered
Here it is a coming - Holy cow

He depended on us
Was there no other way
It doesn't seem just
We just laid in the hay

We gave up voting
to show them our will
Now they are gloating
As they pass us the bill

Less evil to come
More good do they say
This is the way for some
But let's do it another day

The world is all good again
Crow and Jaime united at last
Four more years of Obama to begin
Healthcare and politics - what a blast

That seems to be the "Christian" way, I suppose.
"I don't need any of you. Just me and God. The rest of you are evil." "Our Lord really doesn't want unity. That whole thing about the Body- well, He just mis spoke."

Yep, that seems to sum it all up. ::frown::

Why would we ever want to unite against evil? Seems better to just let it pick us off one at a time and do nothing different.

No Larry, not using evil to effect change, using good to effect change. But if you see it as evil, then that's what it is to you.
Don't fret, I'm done with all of this. It becomes obvious that next to none want to unite with our Lord- and if that be the case, we never will.

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #87 on: Mon Dec 27, 2010 - 09:32:57 »
It certainly appears that what is happening is that one individual wants outcome A and is certain action B will result in outcome A.  Ok, fine.  It's a stretch,though, to say that those who don't practice action B are not wanting outcome A.  That appears to be the logical fallacy of crowcamp's.  I won't insult crowcamp by calling him a liberal or an oppressive, er, "progressive", but the logical fallacy is like that that is routinely practiced by lib-opps.  They promote various social programs claiming they are to prevent homelessness, starvation, illness and the like.  Then, if you don't support those programs, they make the claim that you don't care about homelessness, starvation, illness and the like.

Well, I support The Peace, Love and Understanding for the Children Act of 2011.  Anyone who doesn't is against peace, love and understanding for the children.  The fact that what the act does is instruct the US Treasury to cut me a check for $100,000,000 is really not the issue, as all decent, Christian folk will certainly agree.

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #88 on: Mon Dec 27, 2010 - 09:40:52 »
You can call me what you wish, Nick. If you have not been able to discern from my posts that I believe in the smallest government possible, the least taxes possible, the greatest personal responsibility possible; well, it really won't matter what I say.

Do as you will. Don't try anything new, or even consider the possibilites. That seems to be the course. Who am I to attempt to get people to see anything different? As stated, I'm done with this. Nothing will change, but it seems that is the desire, so it shall be.

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #89 on: Mon Dec 27, 2010 - 11:09:10 »
I'm not calling you anything but your approach is the same.  Besides, how do you figures folks are failing to see anything different?  Folks certainly appear to see it differently than you, for the most part.

larry2

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #90 on: Mon Dec 27, 2010 - 11:28:28 »

I believe in the smallest government possible, the least taxes possible, the greatest personal responsibility possible.


This is what you read in God's commands to you? It all sounds like the care of this world to me. What happened to "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's?"

We read where Paul said "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." Do you see him assembling people against the government of his time? Did you see Jesus complaining against Rome taking His tribute?   

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #91 on: Mon Dec 27, 2010 - 11:42:28 »

I believe in the smallest government possible, the least taxes possible, the greatest personal responsibility possible.


This is what you read in God's commands to you? It all sounds like the care of this world to me. What happened to "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's?"

We read where Paul said "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." Do you see him assembling people against the government of his time? Did you see Jesus complaining against Rome taking His tribute?   
No desire to "assemble people against the government." Give the government what it needs, but limit its needs by caring for one another. Do not farm out the responsibilites Christ has given us. Do what we are meant to do, live as we are meant to live and see the smallest possible governance. Remove world government as much as possible and replace it with His eternal guidance. We are meant to follow Him, not the ways of man. Render to Caesar, but make that which is Caesar's minimal.

Don't worry, it won't happen. Everyone can just go on complaining about taxes, intrustions, loss of freedom, etc, etc. By what is posted, that seems to be what the majority want, so it will be what we all get.

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #92 on: Mon Dec 27, 2010 - 11:44:24 »
I'm not calling you anything but your approach is the same.  Besides, how do you figures folks are failing to see anything different?  Folks certainly appear to see it differently than you, for the most part.
Anything different from what they've always seen. So, yes, "folks" see it differently than I do.

Offline Jaime

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #93 on: Mon Dec 27, 2010 - 11:56:14 »
It's simple Nick, everyone is evil but Crow.

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #94 on: Mon Dec 27, 2010 - 13:55:05 »
God knows my heart. Honestly, I don't know if I am good or evil. He does, I trust Him, and I do my best to follow. I don't judge others, or compare myself against them. That is His call. Fifty years ago, He reached out to me. I ignored Him. I try my best now not to ignore Him. I don't know if what I advocate has any value, but do know it's at least a different way of looking at things than the tired old ways that have already proven as failure. I constantly reach out to others for new ideas. I reach out to Him for new ideas. I know we don't have it right because that's what He tells me. He tells me He loves us all, and we are to love each other, and if we ever do it will change everything. That's what I have to work with, and since it's from Him, that is enough.

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #95 on: Mon Dec 27, 2010 - 14:16:14 »
If ifs and buts were fruits and nuts, we could make a big fruitcake. ;-)

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #96 on: Mon Dec 27, 2010 - 14:20:15 »
And that's why I quit discussing things with you, Jaime.

Offline Jaime

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #97 on: Mon Dec 27, 2010 - 14:24:25 »
Thank you! Does that include any response?

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #98 on: Tue Dec 28, 2010 - 06:56:47 »
I'm not calling you anything but your approach is the same.  Besides, how do you figures folks are failing to see anything different?  Folks certainly appear to see it differently than you, for the most part.
Anything different from what they've always seen. So, yes, "folks" see it differently than I do.

It isn't a problem if they see things different than you do and how they see things right now doesn't tell you how they saw things last month or how they will next month.

The real problem is not that they don't always see things like you, but that they don't always see things like me. 

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #99 on: Tue Dec 28, 2010 - 08:08:16 »
I'm not calling you anything but your approach is the same.  Besides, how do you figures folks are failing to see anything different?  Folks certainly appear to see it differently than you, for the most part.
Anything different from what they've always seen. So, yes, "folks" see it differently than I do.

It isn't a problem if they see things different than you do and how they see things right now doesn't tell you how they saw things last month or how they will next month.

The real problem is not that they don't always see things like you, but that they don't always see things like me. 
If that be the case, then at least have the gumption to express some ideas rather than just putting down the attempts of others to make life better. And please, real ideas, not just lame humor. The ongoing suffering of this world is not a joke.

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #100 on: Tue Dec 28, 2010 - 09:25:27 »
I'm not calling you anything but your approach is the same.  Besides, how do you figures folks are failing to see anything different?  Folks certainly appear to see it differently than you, for the most part.
Anything different from what they've always seen. So, yes, "folks" see it differently than I do.

It isn't a problem if they see things different than you do and how they see things right now doesn't tell you how they saw things last month or how they will next month.

The real problem is not that they don't always see things like you, but that they don't always see things like me. 
If that be the case, then at least have the gumption to express some ideas rather than just putting down the attempts of others to make life better. And please, real ideas, not just lame humor. The ongoing suffering of this world is not a joke.
 

I have close to 11,000 posts. Whenever one is expressing an idea, it is an unquestionably great idea.  Now get off your moral high horse and take a look at it and see it for the stick pony it really is.  The only idea you seem to be pounding is that you don't vote.  Ok, then, don't vote.  Whether someone chooses to vote or not is one of those things neither of us can do anything about so your rambling on about it is about as useful as you going out and pounding sand for a few hours.

crowcamp

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #101 on: Tue Dec 28, 2010 - 09:53:49 »
I'm not calling you anything but your approach is the same.  Besides, how do you figures folks are failing to see anything different?  Folks certainly appear to see it differently than you, for the most part.
Anything different from what they've always seen. So, yes, "folks" see it differently than I do.

It isn't a problem if they see things different than you do and how they see things right now doesn't tell you how they saw things last month or how they will next month.

The real problem is not that they don't always see things like you, but that they don't always see things like me. 
If that be the case, then at least have the gumption to express some ideas rather than just putting down the attempts of others to make life better. And please, real ideas, not just lame humor. The ongoing suffering of this world is not a joke.
 

I have close to 11,000 posts. Whenever one is expressing an idea, it is an unquestionably great idea.  Now get off your moral high horse and take a look at it and see it for the stick pony it really is.  The only idea you seem to be pounding is that you don't vote.  Ok, then, don't vote.  Whether someone chooses to vote or not is one of those things neither of us can do anything about so your rambling on about it is about as useful as you going out and pounding sand for a few hours.
Yep, you have close to 11,000 posts- 99% of which are poor attempts at humor, mention of the word "buggery", or putting others down. Quite clearly, you have not followed my posts ( except to be critical) or you would know my "only idea" is to unify under Christ's commandments. The "not voting" is meant as a vehicle for that unity. Basically, people can participate by doing absolutely nothing. Again, if you had followed my posts you would know the not voting is only a starter, and that I believe everyone should vote- in unity, as one, with common purpose, by His commandments.

In a forum such as this, you have the opportunity to express ideas, to possibly arrive at something better, or you can simply use it to inflate your ego by putting others down. As always, your choice.

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #102 on: Tue Dec 28, 2010 - 10:25:01 »

My question is this Crow, if you are pleasing the Lord in what you do, why is it necessary to attempt and organize the remainder of us? Will we not stand before Jesus to receive our own rewards? If I determine to give through the assembly I attend, do you have a problem with that? Do you have a special group you want supported more than another? I do hope you realize that we all march to the God of our salvation according the His direction for each of us through the Holy Spirit, and not man. I have seen whole families kept through trials for years at church and I am satisfied with that. I truly am not worried that Ceasar doesn't care for me; God does He shall supply all our need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #103 on: Tue Dec 28, 2010 - 11:21:22 »
Nick I support your idea of putting down folks that do nothing as in not voting, ie equivalecy of pounding sand. Plus I assume you and I are on the same "no discuss list". A great future time saver. Watch out Larry you could be next on her list.

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Re: How should Christians approach politics?
« Reply #104 on: Tue Dec 28, 2010 - 12:45:14 »

My question is this Crow, if you are pleasing the Lord in what you do, why is it necessary to attempt and organize the remainder of us? Will we not stand before Jesus to receive our own rewards? If I determine to give through the assembly I attend, do you have a problem with that? Do you have a special group you want supported more than another? I do hope you realize that we all march to the God of our salvation according the His direction for each of us through the Holy Spirit, and not man. I have seen whole families kept through trials for years at church and I am satisfied with that. I truly am not worried that Ceasar doesn't care for me; God does He shall supply all our need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
If you see a relationship with Christ as simply one on one, then what I say will mean nothing to you. If instead you see strength in the Body, the potential in unity, a greater love for our Lord and our neighbors in working together, then, it might. You say, "we all march to the God of our salvation according to His direction for each of us through the Holy Spirit," but I have to assume that direction does not include His commandments and His call for us to become One in the Body in your thinking. You say, "He shall supply all our need," but have to assume you think those needs aren't to be filled as One in the Body.

Two thousand years ago very specific- and simple- commandments and direction were given to the first believers. They did their best for a time, but over time it all began to fracture. No unity, no oneness, and no longer so specific and simple to understand. Different takes on all this began to encroach. Judgements and rationalizations and justifications to stray away from the commandments and directions.  The purity of our Savior, the course of the path, the progression to the worldly living He wishes His children to have all became blurred. And from that seems to have come the rationalization that commandments aren't necessarily commandments, that the Body does not mean unity, and we, as individuals, really don't have to do anything but say we believe Christ died for our sins.

There is a better life waiting to happen. Yes, "He shall supply all our need," but we are settling for so much less than He wants to supply. And that "supply" flows through us, not just to us. We are commissioned- no, we are commanded to find that better life. The love for our Lord and the love for one another are not suggestions, and they have nothing to do with eternal salvation. He gave those commandments for now, for this earthly time of living. He has given us eternity, and said, "It is finished", but has also given us the means for better right now. His work is done. Ours was supposed to begin long ago. Separately, we may find eternity, but together we change the world. But nothing changes unless we try. All I'm trying to do (by His direction) is get people to try.

 

     
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