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Author Topic: Judge Carter Orders Discovery in Obama Birth Certificate Case  (Read 13531 times)
ConqueredbyLove
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« Reply #135 on: October 20, 2009, 04:13:09 PM »


 L why do you keep twisting facts?

I think he has gotten a bit rattled from rocking out so much  Head spin

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« Reply #136 on: October 21, 2009, 11:58:57 AM »

Okay so his mom was a citizen so this entire thing is pointless. Not only is there no real reason to believe he was born outside the US but even if he were he would still be a natural born US citizen. LOL what a waste of time.

This is simply inaccurate. To be a natural-born U.S. citizen according to U.S. laws, the person must be born on U.S. soil. The only exception is to active duty military families. One example is Arnold Schwarzenegger, governor of California. He is a U.S. citizen, but is not eligible to be the President because he is not a natural-born citizen.

There have been several links posted here showing how much Obama has spent preventing his birth certificate from being revealed. Not blogs, but news stories and it's not difficult to determine anyway based on over a year of legal fees and dozens of defenses. I find it humorous that Obama supporters will deny something, then have it proven to them and then they simply justify the actions they were denying even existed. It's a case of putting Obama over principles.

Obama is refusing to provide a copy of his birth certificate to a Federal judge and the only "proof" he and his followers are providing is that someone in Hawaii says she saw it and then locked it up again. Those who are defending Obama on this do so because they like him or don't want to admit they are wrong. Any logical person looking at the facts would admit that there is something very wrong when it costs just $35 to provide a copy of a birth certificate but after more than a year and $1.4 million to hide it, Obama still thinks that spending that much and refusing to provide his birth certificate to a federal judge is a better option for him than simply showing his birth certificate!

The issue is natural citizenship and his birth certificate would prove he has that if he does. Turning it over would end all this and save Obama a LOT of money and headache. Plus it would be the right thing to do for a candidate who promised to be the most "transparent" ever. And yet, he thinks the better option for him is to continue to conceal the document that holds the truth. Clearly, the truth is harmful to him. And that's scary to someone who can look beyond their loyalty or love for candidate and/or political party.
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« Reply #136 on: October 21, 2009, 11:58:57 AM »

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gwen
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« Reply #137 on: October 21, 2009, 12:26:44 PM »

On CNN last night, they said that this whole thing is just silly and he's the president, so he shouldn't have to produce a birth certificate. The guy defending B.O. just kept repeating that "He's the president." Like it shouldn't matter because he has the office now.

Then the other guy said that they were willing to make it a requirement of FUTURE candidates for presidency to provide a certified copy of their birth certificates. But, he did point out that when McCain was asked for his, he produced it without a hitch. Still, since he also repeated himself, I believe that at this point, B.O. is off the hook and it will only be required of future candidates to provide a valid, certified birth certificate. Frowning
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« Reply #138 on: October 21, 2009, 01:27:04 PM »

Gwen,

I doubt that the Federal judge over the case will allow himself to go down in history as someone who allowed an ineligible person to abuse the laws of the United States and continue using President powers when he's not eligible to do so.

And you're right, it doesn't matter if he's got the title of "President" now. If he's not eligible to be President, then he's doing something illegal and is technically not the President. He's more impersonating Presidential authority.
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« Reply #138 on: October 21, 2009, 01:27:04 PM »

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Jaime
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« Reply #139 on: October 21, 2009, 01:33:56 PM »

Sounds like the term "ineligible" is destined to be stigmatized like the term "illegal" has been in the case of illegal immigrants?
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« Reply #140 on: October 21, 2009, 02:34:14 PM »

Sounds like the term "ineligible" is destined to be stigmatized like the term "illegal" has been in the case of illegal immigrants?

Don't you have any shame? They are no longer called "illegal immigrants" they are now "undocumented immigrants".  Frowning LOL

And yeah, you're right. It could become stigmatized.
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« Reply #140 on: October 21, 2009, 02:34:14 PM »

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« Reply #141 on: October 21, 2009, 02:34:56 PM »

Gwen,

I doubt that the Federal judge over the case will allow himself to go down in history as someone who allowed an ineligible person to abuse the laws of the United States and continue using President powers when he's not eligible to do so.

And you're right, it doesn't matter if he's got the title of "President" now. If he's not eligible to be President, then he's doing something illegal and is technically not the President. He's more impersonating Presidential authority.

I think so too. I really do. Let's just hope it pans out that way.
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« Reply #142 on: October 21, 2009, 11:21:21 PM »

Okay so his mom was a citizen so this entire thing is pointless. Not only is there no real reason to believe he was born outside the US but even if he were he would still be a natural born US citizen. LOL what a waste of time.

This is simply inaccurate. To be a natural-born U.S. citizen according to U.S. laws, the person must be born on U.S. soil. The only exception is to active duty military families.

That is false.  See the Naturalization Act of 1790 which states that "the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens" and since Obama's mother was a citizen and his father was a US resident for a time then it makes no difference where Obama was born--even though there is still no evidence that he was born anywhere other than Hawaii (although you acted like you were going to list some off some evidence but then you didn't because there isn't any).
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« Reply #143 on: October 22, 2009, 05:11:27 AM »

What I have read is that Obama’s claim to being born in Hawaii is based on the fact that Hawaii will issue a "Certificate of Live Birth" for a foreign born infant that arrives in the state before it is one year old. But that is different from an actual Birth Certificate certifying when, what hospital, and all the rest. Thus IMHO it is possible that he is not a natural-born U.S. citizen or he would have an actual Birth Certificate.

I believe the Constitution's provisions are very simple for qualifying for president of the United States: (1) be over 35 (2) be in the country 14 years (3) be a natural-born citizen.

Perhaps there is some confusion because the US laws at the time of Obama’s birth stated that if a child is born abroad and one parent was a US citizen (his mom) who had lived 10 years in the US with 5 of those years after the age of 14, the child would be a US citizen (but not a ‘natural born’ US citizen).  But Obama’s mother was only 18 when she gave birth to him therefore she could not have even met the requirements of living in the US for 5 years after age 14. I have also heard that his Grandmother said she was in the delivery room in Kenya when he was born.

As far as the Naturalization Act of 1790, perhaps the key words are "children of citizens", I don't think his father was a US citizen. I think if Obama had been able to have acquired a Birth Certificate as natural born Citizen do to this act that he or his mother at the time of his birth would have and this thread would not exist. :-)

IMHO, if he were a natural-born U.S. citizen, he would have proven it a long time ago, so far all he has been able to produce is his "Certificate of Live Birth".  I just hope that Judge Carter is allowed, can and will follow through with this order so that we all learn the truth once and for all, what ever it may be.  

Hope you all have a bless day!

Gizzy
« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 06:01:43 AM by Gizzy » Logged
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« Reply #144 on: October 22, 2009, 10:59:49 AM »

...

IMHO, if he were a natural-born U.S. citizen, he would have proven it a long time ago, ...




I agree.

There is some question, as well, as to whether or not she was 18 when he was born.

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« Reply #144 on: October 22, 2009, 10:59:49 AM »

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leeford
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« Reply #145 on: October 22, 2009, 04:46:11 PM »

Okay so his mom was a citizen so this entire thing is pointless. Not only is there no real reason to believe he was born outside the US but even if he were he would still be a natural born US citizen. LOL what a waste of time.

This is simply inaccurate. To be a natural-born U.S. citizen according to U.S. laws, the person must be born on U.S. soil. The only exception is to active duty military families.

That is false.  See the Naturalization Act of 1790 which states that "the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens" and since Obama's mother was a citizen and his father was a US resident for a time then it makes no difference where Obama was born--even though there is still no evidence that he was born anywhere other than Hawaii (although you acted like you were going to list some off some evidence but then you didn't because there isn't any).

You want the evidence listed AGAIN as to what exactly? Obama's citizenship being in question and him refusing to provide a birth certificate? Or on the money he's spent blocking it from being shown to a judge? How many times does it have to be listed? It's listed many times in the political forum and is everywhere. Here's a video that mentions some of it regarding him hiding his birth certificate. Here's a link about the money he's spent hiding it that shows FEC records. Whether you want to dismiss it because you don't like it is up to you.



And concerning being a natural born citizen:

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following people as "citizens of the United States at birth:"

    * Anyone born inside the United States *
    * Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
    * Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
    * Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
    * Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
    * Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
    * Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
    * A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.          Source

So there we go. If Obama was born in Kenya then he wouldn't qualify because his dad was not a citizen and was only here to go to school.

We all know that if a Republican were refusing to show his birth certificate to a federal judge that liberals would be saying he's hiding something too. It's just simple logic. Why liberals defend Obama refusing to show his birth certificate is just stunning. If he's got nothing to hide and is eligible then what's he got to hide?

And no, someone in Hawaii saying that they saw his birth certificate and then locking it up and refusing to let anyone else see it or even a copy is NOT proof. Obama wanted McCain to prove it and he provided vaulted birth certificate, passports and other records within 48 hours. Then hypocrite Obama more than a year later still refuses to do the same. The question is why and pretending like that's not a valid question shows obvious and shocking intellectual dishonesty.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 04:56:49 PM by leeford » Logged

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« Reply #146 on: October 22, 2009, 08:15:56 PM »

Quote
  * Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)

No read it and you'll see this is an error. Here is Title 8 of this US Code you refer to. The relevant part is section G. It says that military or governmental service may be counted as part of the required 5 years of residence for the natural born citizen parent. It is in no way saying that one parent has to be in the military for the child to be natural born.

Quote
(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person (A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or (B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and

So once again, you have a youtube video and some cut/paste inaccurate interpretations of law and but still no credible or compelling evidence that Obama was born outside the country and even if he was according to this law that you yourself posted, he would still be a considered a natural born citizen because his mother was a citizen and lived in the US for 5 years prior to his birth.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 09:13:33 PM by Logismos » Logged
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« Reply #147 on: October 22, 2009, 08:29:31 PM »

Quote
  * Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)

No read it and you'll see this is an error. Here is Title 8 of this US Code you refer to. The relevant part is section G. It says that military or governmental service may be counted as part of the required 5 years of residence for the natural born citizen parent. It is in no way saying that one parent has to be in the military for the child to be natural born.

Quote
(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person (A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or (B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and

So once again, you have a youtube video and some cut/paste inaccurate interpretations of law and but still no credible or compelling evidence that Obama was born outside the country and even if he was according to this law that you yourself posted, he would still be a considered a citizen because his mother was a citizen and lived in the US for 5 years prior to his birth.

What lee quoted is not in error.  It states that or governmental service may be counted as part of the required 5 years of residence for the natural born citizen parent, which is what the law states.  You are in error about there being an error.

Try again.

In Christ,
KP
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« Reply #147 on: October 22, 2009, 08:29:31 PM »

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Logismos
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« Reply #148 on: October 22, 2009, 09:12:22 PM »

No when he said "with military and diplomatic service included in this time" then that seems to imply that its required (otherwise it would contradict the point of his post). If hypothetically Obama was in fact born outside of the US then how would section G not apply to him as being a natural born citizen?
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« Reply #149 on: October 22, 2009, 10:56:51 PM »

IMHO, if he were a natural-born U.S. citizen, he would have proven it a long time ago,

And if he wasn't, Hillary Clinton would have proven it a long time ago.
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