Welcome, Guest. Login or register to use the forums.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 19, 2010, 02:31:23 AM
Home Help Search Login Register
GCM Home | Bible Search | Rules | Bookstore | Support | Newsletter


+  Christian Forums
|-+  Hobbies and Specifics
| |-+  Christian Politics Forum
| | |-+  Liberals vs. the Cross
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Liberals vs. the Cross  (Read 1734 times)
cberman
Guest
« Reply #105 on: October 12, 2009, 10:36:08 PM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny
Logged
Lou
Guest
« Reply #106 on: October 12, 2009, 10:37:57 PM »

When B. Hussein Obama spoke at Georgetown University earlier this year he asked for religious symbols to be covered or removed.  Georgetown resembles a Catholic University.  They don't act like Catholics, but they still have the old window dressing.

High above the podium where Obama was to speak was the monogram IHS a representation of Jesus' name.  Obama had it blacked out.




Before Obama, when Jesus' name wasn't offensive:
Logged
Christian Forums
« Reply #106 on: October 12, 2009, 10:37:57 PM »

 Logged
Johnb
Legendary Member
******

Manna: 93
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 5817

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #107 on: October 13, 2009, 07:35:31 AM »

Marc
What about the thousands in this country who have no home, the millions around the world that die of starvation, the millions that die for lack of food, how about the drug addicts that die of bad needles and bad drugs shouldn't we supply them with good drugs so they can live longer?  Why not just have everone work and take all their money an cure all the US and world problems?   We can not afford to pay for everything for everyone.  I am not responsible for someone Else's house, car, or health insurance.
Marc
I am sorry you have health problems.  I do also.  My father died at 58 with the same problems I have.  He had great health insurance but waited to late to address the problem.  There is no way to know if these folks would live longer if they had insurance.  In fact I see many who's life is cut short by over medication by doctors.   
Logged
marc
Global Moderator
King James Member
*****

Manna: 548
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 24236


Burning Bright

Blog entries (12)

View Profile WWW
« Reply #108 on: October 13, 2009, 10:30:13 AM »

Then we should outlaw doctors!

Any argument in a storm, I guess.

This is something we can do something about, as every other free nation on Earth does.  To not do so is inexcusable.
Logged

Never lose an opportunity of seeing anything beautiful, for beauty is God's handwriting.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Much madness.
Christian Forums
« Reply #108 on: October 13, 2009, 10:30:13 AM »

 Logged
Jimmy
Legendary Member
******

Manna: 171
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 6049

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #109 on: October 13, 2009, 10:42:49 AM »

Then we should outlaw doctors!

Any argument in a storm, I guess.

This is something we can do something about, as every other free nation on Earth does.  To not do so is inexcusable.

Is there any upper limit to the amount of money that can be devoted to the health care of any single individual?  Does a 100 year old person have a "right" to a heart transplant, lung transplant, a couple of artificial knees, and maybe a couple of hips if he so chooses?  If so, then there is no end to the cost that will be incurred.  If not, then who decides what that upper limit is?  How does it get established?  As it now stands, nearly everyone has access in some way or another to healthcare at some level. What does not exist is unlimited care to every individual.

Given the gross inefficiencies of government run organizations, it is only common sense to defeat the present democrat approach to better health care.  The very fact that the government can not manage the systems now in place (medicare and medicade) ought to be proof enough that adding to those is not the solution and will only bring about additional problems.
Logged
lightshineon
Hero
*****

Manna: 95
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Female
Posts: 4466


Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #110 on: October 13, 2009, 11:52:22 AM »

 Marc, I guess my problems with Government healthcare, maybe different than some. The first is constitutional, if we were given gold to belong to this healthcare, and the majority of people do not want it, the it just is us being ruled by the government. Next, it was the way Obama wanted the bill on his desk to sign before the break in August, no one knew what was in the bill, no one had read it including Obama. He wanted to just have a power grab. I have a problem that he and congress, and unions have an elite private insurance, and will. I have a problem with Dr, shortages, and being told, what medicine I can take, and cannot depending on cost. I have a condition myself, and do not want to change medication's. Elder care, you know we will be old one day, and they seem not to value the elderly and their lives much. I am sure the poor will also be put on waiting list. In the Military the is a saying rank has its privileges. They have nothing in place, and do not seem ( both parties) to know how to find their butt with both hands, and that includes Obama. We are going to be taxed, so much as it is with cap and trade, health care, they want a national sales tax, all kinds of bull. You and I will be lucky if we bring home after all this 30% of what we make. My parents were PS teachers, and  I know you and I cannot afford such a thing. It is like king George rules again. I know you disagree, but, the poor will have to buy expensive insurance, or be fined, maybe jailed. I am willing to listen to your side, I do not always have to be right, infact, I hope I am wrong on this issue. BTW. I am very compassionate to the poor, I have given my last dollar in college more than once. I never turn anyone down that ask. So it is no a matter of selfishness on my part.
Logged

Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who will be glad to step on them.
              F.T. 2007
Christian Forums
« Reply #110 on: October 13, 2009, 11:52:22 AM »

 Logged
Johnb
Legendary Member
******

Manna: 93
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 5817

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #111 on: October 13, 2009, 02:01:40 PM »

Marc
1.  The universal healthcare nations are mostly socialistic countries that is not the same as Free countries.

2. I made an absurd argument to show yours as being absurd.   There is no proven cause and effect relationship in your argument.  The fact that a higher percentage of people without health insurance die earlier does not prove that lack of health insurance is the cause.  It simply is not a scientific conclusion.  Example several years ago it was observed that people with creased ear lobs have a higher incident of heart disease.  There in no evidence that creased ear lobs causes heart disease or even a predictor.
500,000 folks die an early death due to medical mix ups each year.  That is a proven cause and effect.  By your reasoning we should do away with the entire medical field to save those lives.

3.  We have been and I hope remain a capitalist country not a socialistic one.  I feel no compulsion to pay for heathcare of able bodied folks.
Logged
marc
Global Moderator
King James Member
*****

Manna: 548
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 24236


Burning Bright

Blog entries (12)

View Profile WWW
« Reply #112 on: October 13, 2009, 02:37:30 PM »

Marc
1.  The universal healthcare nations are mostly socialistic countries that is not the same as Free countries.

2. I made an absurd argument to show yours as being absurd.   There is no proven cause and effect relationship in your argument.  The fact that a higher percentage of people without health insurance die earlier does not prove that lack of health insurance is the cause.  It simply is not a scientific conclusion.  Example several years ago it was observed that people with creased ear lobs have a higher incident of heart disease.  There in no evidence that creased ear lobs causes heart disease or even a predictor.
500,000 folks die an early death due to medical mix ups each year.  That is a proven cause and effect.  By your reasoning we should do away with the entire medical field to save those lives.

3.  We have been and I hope remain a capitalist country not a socialistic one.  I feel no compulsion to pay for heathcare of able bodied folks.

1. It's pretty much everybody except us.  To argue that Australia, GB, France, Germany, Canada, etc. aren't free is absurd.

2. There is no cause and effect between medical care and living/dying?  Really? Confused

3. Do you think it's right that people die because they don't have as much money as other people?  Do you think it's right to be able to stop this, yet refuse to do so?
Logged

Never lose an opportunity of seeing anything beautiful, for beauty is God's handwriting.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Much madness.
lightshineon
Hero
*****

Manna: 95
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Female
Posts: 4466


Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #113 on: October 13, 2009, 04:08:27 PM »

 Marc do you really think this is right? I am asking, just to know your thoughts.
Logged

Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who will be glad to step on them.
              F.T. 2007
Johnb
Legendary Member
******

Manna: 93
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 5817

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #114 on: October 13, 2009, 04:57:30 PM »

Marc
1.  The universal healthcare nations are mostly socialistic countries that is not the same as Free countries.

2. I made an absurd argument to show yours as being absurd.   There is no proven cause and effect relationship in your argument.  The fact that a higher percentage of people without health insurance die earlier does not prove that lack of health insurance is the cause.  It simply is not a scientific conclusion.  Example several years ago it was observed that people with creased ear lobs have a higher incident of heart disease.  There in no evidence that creased ear lobs causes heart disease or even a predictor.
500,000 folks die an early death due to medical mix ups each year.  That is a proven cause and effect.  By your reasoning we should do away with the entire medical field to save those lives.

3.  We have been and I hope remain a capitalist country not a socialistic one.  I feel no compulsion to pay for heathcare of able bodied folks.

1. It's pretty much everybody except us.  To argue that Australia, GB, France, Germany, Canada, etc. aren't free is absurd.

2. There is no cause and effect between medical care and living/dying?  Really? Confused

3. Do you think it's right that people die because they don't have as much money as other people?  Do you think it's right to be able to stop this, yet refuse to do so?


1. Living in a socialist country does not meet the American definition of freedom.   No I do not consider a nanny state where the majority of what you earn is confiscated for  "the common good" true freedom.  If you like it so well move there and be happy.

2. The cause and effect was between health insurance and death not medical care.  There are many ways to get medical care without medical insurance. 

3. I will answer you question with another question.  Do you believe it is right in a free nation to take what one person has earned and give it to someone else by force?  If one man chooses a job or works and earns enough money to afford good health insurance and another does not yes it is fair for the one able bodied man to do without rather than take by force of law what someone else has earned.  That is not freedom.   
Logged
Christian Forums
« Reply #114 on: October 13, 2009, 04:57:30 PM »

 Logged
marc
Global Moderator
King James Member
*****

Manna: 548
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 24236


Burning Bright

Blog entries (12)

View Profile WWW
« Reply #115 on: October 13, 2009, 05:25:47 PM »

So you're seriously saying we're the only free nation on Earth?

okay, then.  This is why I need to stay away from politics; so much here is said just to prove a point.

I'd really, really like answers to my third questions, not evasions claiming that taxation is stealing (contrary to teaching in scripture every bit as clear as the condemnation of homosexuality).

Logged

Never lose an opportunity of seeing anything beautiful, for beauty is God's handwriting.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Much madness.
marc
Global Moderator
King James Member
*****

Manna: 548
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 24236


Burning Bright

Blog entries (12)

View Profile WWW
« Reply #116 on: October 13, 2009, 05:27:59 PM »

Marc do you really think this is right? I am asking, just to know your thoughts.

I absolutely think that doing what we can do to save people's lives is right.  I don't give a whit for ideology; I believe right and wrong triumph politics.

Does anyone dare answer my third question directly?  

Logged

Never lose an opportunity of seeing anything beautiful, for beauty is God's handwriting.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Much madness.
marc
Global Moderator
King James Member
*****

Manna: 548
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 24236


Burning Bright

Blog entries (12)

View Profile WWW
« Reply #117 on: October 13, 2009, 05:35:43 PM »

I'll go away from the Politics board again now.  I only posted here because I assumed people hadn't heard all the facts of this case; I didn't want to rehash the same old arguments and denials.  Turns out anyway that neither side was particular interested in the facts of the case, but were mostly interested in promoting opposing ideologies. 
Logged

Never lose an opportunity of seeing anything beautiful, for beauty is God's handwriting.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Much madness.
Christian Forums
« Reply #117 on: October 13, 2009, 05:35:43 PM »

 Logged
Lou
Guest
« Reply #118 on: October 13, 2009, 05:47:44 PM »

Marc do you really think this is right? I am asking, just to know your thoughts.

I absolutely think that doing what we can do to save people's lives is right.  I don't give a whit for ideology; I believe right and wrong triumph politics.

Does anyone dare answer my third question directly? 



I can't control my gag reflex when a liberal says they're concerned with saving people's lives.  50 million dead in our own country and they think abortion laws are too restrictive.  How many million will it take to satisfy their blood lust?
Logged
Johnb
Legendary Member
******

Manna: 93
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 5817

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #119 on: October 13, 2009, 06:24:48 PM »


Marc read my no.3 again.  I answered your question.  I said yes it is fair for an able bodied person to do without health insurance if it means taking the fruits of another mans labor without his consent.  They both have the right to pursuit of happiness not the promise of success.
Logged
Liberals vs. the Cross - Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Login with username, password and session length

Grace-Centered Christian Forums
Bible concordance | abortion ticker | is God real? | galaga | play tetris | copter game | mini golf games | arcade | donkey kong | Christian marriage help | articles | privacy
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC