Author Topic: My Children's Future  (Read 649 times)

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Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #35 on: Thu Oct 14, 2021 - 09:09:33 »
Cally one more thing to say and I'm out of here. I do have a grandson who is a junior in High School who has no desire to go to college~yet he's a smart young man, but he said college is not for him. We told him, that's okay, then you should immediately being to focus on some type of trade where you can offer your services to the public such as:

Carpenter.
Electrician.
Heavy equipment operator.
Insulation installer.
Landscaper.
Painter.
Plumber.....etc. etc, or learn several of these~but, you MUST hit the floor running at a young age. No one can enter into life skating and expect not to work hard on the other end of life, on ONE end you will work to survive.

I never went to college and can do all of the above, and more~except painting which I hate to do~yet have learned the art of it to do it properly.

Some of the brightest people I have ever met never went to college, yet had some exceptional gifts in trades~ working with their head and hands. Never had a desk job so to speak~but very successful men. My next-door neighbor is not book smart but so gifted in so many areas, all blue-collar work~he's probably worth over fifty million or more. If you ask him to write an essay about his businesses, (more than one) he could not do so on much more than a junior high level.

Can you catch catfish from dusk 'til dawn?

How about make your own whiskey and your own smoke too?

Or grow good-ole tomatoes and homemade wine?

Can you skin a buck, can you run a trot line?

Offline Jaime

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #36 on: Thu Oct 14, 2021 - 09:12:20 »
Country folks can survive.

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Offline DaveW

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #37 on: Thu Oct 14, 2021 - 09:16:47 »
Schools won't be able to get away paying dirt.  Less and less people are choosing education as a major.
Agreed.  But many states like MI fund their schools ENTIRELY from property tax (the millage) and the electorate has to vote on it periodically. People voting to raise their own taxes?  Not likely. 

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #38 on: Thu Oct 14, 2021 - 09:23:42 »
Agreed.  But many states like MI fund their schools ENTIRELY from property tax (the millage) and the electorate has to vote on it periodically. People voting to raise their own taxes?  Not likely.

Michigan isn't entirely from property tax, it is a bit more complicated than that.  The property tax money all goes to the state, and then they (the state) determine a per pupil rate to give the school based upon several factors.  Some of these factors include poverty level, number of non-English speaking kids, etc.  These factors can increase the per pupil amount. 

The millage rate should be set at the max to get the max per pupil rate.

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #38 on: Thu Oct 14, 2021 - 09:23:42 »
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Offline Cally

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #39 on: Thu Oct 14, 2021 - 09:28:22 »
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Cally, I DO know in my experience and from my peers at the time, My engineering curriculum was way more challenging than a lot people's. I was not naturally an engineering student, but once I got into it, it was like a tar baby and wouldn't let go. My natural affinity would have put me in the forest ranger field or fishing guide field or the farming field. Up until the end of my sophomore year, I was motivated to persevere in engineering. After that, I was too far in to change to a new major and at any cost I didn't want to extend my college time by even 1 day. College sucked for me and I wouldn't take a million dollars for what I worked for, but I also wouldn't have done it again for 10 million dollars.

I think the point is, you are simply calling me a liar, both for what I myself experienced and what I saw with other people, locally and from a distance (I know some other long-distance people in the field).

I'm telling you something really, really simple, and you're second-guessing me: I SAW that I and other people did not have extra time. If I took a job, that would have cut into the bare minimum for getting through classes at all on quite a number of occasions. I did work some, but a regular 30-hour job would have meant I would not have had enough time studying.

I mean go ahead and say it straight out and call me a liar. Why beat around the bush?

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #39 on: Thu Oct 14, 2021 - 09:28:22 »



Offline Jaime

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #40 on: Thu Oct 14, 2021 - 09:42:01 »
Nope not calling you a liar. I am saying there is always a way to work at school, maybe not and get more than a few hours sleep. I didn't have the time I thought either at the time. Maybe not 30 hours of work a week, but definitely quite a few hours can be accumulated. I wouldn't have predicted what I had to do, and I AM saying I wouldn't do it again. I apologize for appearing to call you a liar. I didn't intend it to come across that way. For people I know that didn't work their way through college, the concept is as foreign as me preparing to preach a decent sermon from the pulpit. I might as well attempt to design a spaceship. Admittedly I have no experience with a masters program and it would never in a million years have occurred to me to do that, but I do respect and congratulate you and others who have attained a masters degree. If my career choice had required a masters degree, I would have just had to punt. There was absolutely no energy left in me for such.
« Last Edit: Thu Oct 14, 2021 - 09:54:36 by Jaime »

Offline Cally

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #41 on: Thu Oct 14, 2021 - 09:54:18 »
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Nope not calling you a liar. I am saying there is always a way to work at school. Maybe not 30 hours, but definitely quite a few hours. I wouldn't have predicted what I had to do, and I am saying I wouldn't do it again. I apologize for appearing to call you a liar. I didn't intend it to come across that way. For people I know that didn't work there way through college, the concept is as foreign preparing to preach a decent sermon from the pulpit.

Firstly, I did work some although at some points I couldn't (that is, a job with regular hours very much would have been flat-out impossible). I don't know how you can see your blanket statement as not inevitably declaring people liars when they tell you that their schoolwork took so much time -- oftentimes more than there are hours in the day -- that there was plainly and simply none left.

And secondly, what I (and my peers) ALL discovered is that not only did we not have enough time for working outside of school for money, but employers STILL expected us to have more points on our resume from open source contributions. The fastest any of the people I know managed to find a job out of the gate was 6 months, some as long as several year, after graduating. Even when I did get my first job there was so much ridiculously specialized knowledge in particular technologies that it really still wasn't enough to the point that I'd even agree they shouldn't have hired me for what they expected up front (basically full-stack programming).

On the flip-side I would also concede that some people wind up in more doable situations and I wouldn't second-guess that either. But your blanket statement still declares multitudes of people liars for what they will tell you that their experiences were actually like. Unless some government regulation passes that demands that instructors absolutely cannot assign a combined workload that infringes on a remaining 30-40 hours of extra time, it is arrogance to say that you simply know that everyone has it to give to a job (or whatever number of extra number of hours you have in mind).

I mean if your way of thinking about being all-knowing for people's situations is non-negotiable, then that's that. But otherwise, I'd offer for you to consider that this is exactly where the liberal monster comes from and why the conservative party is inevitably dying: "I won, therefore the game is fair" mentality.

Offline Jaime

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #42 on: Thu Oct 14, 2021 - 09:57:09 »
I would say the conservative party is not inevitably dying. Joe Biden et al are insuring that will not be the case. They won and the game was not fair as will be revealed soon.

Offline Cally

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #43 on: Thu Oct 14, 2021 - 10:00:43 »
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I would say the conservative party is not inevitably dying. Joe Biden et al are insuring that will not be the case. They won and the game was not fair as will be revealed soon.

Oh no? Are you expecting these legions of younger people to convert before the boomer generation goes?

Even as someone who votes conservative myself -- and this discussion is not unheard of for others who think the same way -- a lot of attitudes taken for granted need re-evaluation. I'm only not liberal for observation for the realization that that party is still worse.

I'm reminded of how God would often punish Israel by granting its enemies victory. It's not that their enemies deserved victory, but that Israel deserved defeat on those occasions.

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #44 on: Thu Oct 14, 2021 - 10:13:56 »
I predict the younger generation will awaken soon from the ongoing “show and tell” education in Marxism and fascistic methods that the Biden administration is demonstrating. I am positive for the future in that respect. Absolutely there will be changes in attitudes among all generations soon, I suspect. I’m sure my generation is as needy in that regard as any.
« Last Edit: Thu Oct 14, 2021 - 10:28:53 by Jaime »

Offline DaveW

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #45 on: Thu Oct 14, 2021 - 12:35:43 »
Michigan isn't entirely from property tax, it is a bit more complicated than that.  The property tax money all goes to the state, and then they (the state) determine a per pupil rate to give the school based upon several factors.  Some of these factors include poverty level, number of non-English speaking kids, etc.  These factors can increase the per pupil amount. 

The millage rate should be set at the max to get the max per pupil rate.
Perhaps they have changed that in the past few years.  When I lived there (for over 40 years) 90% if each districts funding came frm the millage and that was ENTIRELY local.  Never went to the state.  And it was voted on every 2 or 3 years.

Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #46 on: Thu Oct 14, 2021 - 12:48:27 »
Perhaps they have changed that in the past few years.  When I lived there (for over 40 years) 90% if each districts funding came frm the millage and that was ENTIRELY local.  Never went to the state.  And it was voted on every 2 or 3 years.

Proposal A in 1993, changed the funding structure in Michigan.

From the data I looked at from a Senate chart from 2019, Sales tax is about 45% of school funding, property tax is about 15%.  And things like long term debt for the schools are financed differently than operating costs.

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #47 on: Thu Oct 14, 2021 - 14:59:42 »
The fastest any of the people I know managed to find a job out of the gate was 6 months, some as long as several year, after graduating
Cally, my grandson at Georgia Tech has been offered more than one job already and he's not out until December. Maybe, it has to do with where you go to school, not sure but would think it plays a major part. 

He told me that he's not going to take a job until the end of May when his girlfriend graduates. I said to him~"what are going to do in the meantime?" He said...Papa, I'm going to enjoy life before I enter the workforce.

Hunter was financially set before college~he designed some apps for games that youth play~and did quite well~he invested his money per Dave Ramsey. His girlfriend knows NOTHING about his money but will tell her after they are engaged. 

He has since designed one for fraternities to use to manage their budgets. There is a company in Atlanta that employs 100 people that grosses 200,000,000 dollars per year using two apps~Hunter's one app does what their two does, he's in process of seeing how to market his~or selling it to them. 

He's a good young man and gives God at least 10% of every penny that comes into his hand. He freely acknowledges that every gift he may have comes down from heaven, he's only using what God has graciously given to him.
« Last Edit: Fri Oct 15, 2021 - 09:21:49 by RB »

Offline Cally

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #48 on: Thu Oct 14, 2021 - 15:21:40 »
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Cally, my grandson at Georgia Tech has been offered more than one job already and he's not out until December. Maybe, it has to do with where you go to school, not sure but would think it plays a major part.

The area around Atlanta has incredible job opportunity. There's no doubt about it. It's night and day compared to where I was when I graduated.

Otherwise, it does happen. My anecdotes are referring to a handful of people I worked with, but there were some that got connected off the bat. What I found to be a big problem was that my curriculum lacked anything at all for web development. Once I got some of that (after I graduated) I was in better shape.

Some of us also think that the MS actually backfires for the first job a bit. The in-depth academia isn't really helpful for the first gig. In my case I had a different undergrad degree already. When it comes to a job, the question is how ready are you to sit down and do it, and so that's where I was in extremely weak shape. But that's also why employers want to see extra projects taken on, also.

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #49 on: Fri Oct 15, 2021 - 07:58:04 »
 I think the real point here is that the costs of attending a college or university today in the U.S. has almost nothing to do with how much it costs to teach and educate students.  Unfortunately, the entire educational system in the U.S. is not really about students at all.  It is about those employed in the educational institutions, whether it is a source of income or an opportunity to indoctrinate.  It must be painfully obvious from the events of the last year and a half that the teacher's unions are not about teaching students at all.

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #50 on: Fri Oct 15, 2021 - 08:16:20 »
Some of us also think that the MS actually backfires for the first job a bit. The in-depth academia isn't really helpful for the first gig. In my case I had a different undergrad degree already. When it comes to a job, the question is how ready are you to sit down and do it, and so that's where I was in extremely weak shape. But that's also why employers want to see extra projects taken on, also.
Part of the problem is that too much effort is directed at teaching how to do, when it should be directed a teaching how to think.  In my case, school before college was too easy; not that I was a straight A student, but rather that I didn't have to work very hard to get reasonably good grades.  It really took me a couple of years into college before I really began to learn how to think and study.  If the goal is to learn how to do, then I am not convinced the college and university is the best way to accomplish that.  Often those teaching in colleges and universities don't know much about "doing", so how can they teach it?

Offline Cally

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #51 on: Fri Oct 15, 2021 - 08:27:48 »
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Part of the problem is that too much effort is directed at teaching how to do, when it should be directed a teaching how to think.  In my case, school before college was too easy; not that I was a straight A student, but rather that I didn't have to work very hard to get reasonably good grades.  It really took me a couple of years into college before I really began to learn how to think and study.  If the goal is to learn how to do, then I am not convinced the college and university is the best way to accomplish that.  Often those teaching in colleges and universities don't know much about "doing", so how can they teach it?

I thought K-12 was a time-waster. College lent itself to more autonomy in how you learn and study and I took to it a lot better (my grades in college were much better than in High School). My CS degree was tough as nails to train how to think like a computer which is a ton of training in itself (the actual "computer science") but jobs involve extremely esoteric technologies, not really "harder" at all but just more knowledge, time-consuming to learn.

The area I moved to has jobs galore compared to where I graduated, which was surely the main problem for me.

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #52 on: Fri Oct 15, 2021 - 08:49:09 »
"....think like a computer...."
I am beginning to understand your problems.

Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #53 on: Fri Oct 15, 2021 - 09:16:55 »
It's tough to learn to be like Landru.

Offline Jaime

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #54 on: Fri Oct 15, 2021 - 10:24:36 »
Landru is a wus!

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #55 on: Fri Oct 15, 2021 - 11:25:53 »
Landru is a wus!



Silence infection!

Offline Cally

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #56 on: Sat Oct 16, 2021 - 11:47:10 »
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I am beginning to understand your problems.

Hi 4WD. How's it going?

So I see that you're really wanting to show just how completely infantile you are with your continuous petulance, aren't you?

If this is where the rules are set around here, then I'll go ahead and go with it: you are a total disgrace to adulthood, let alone Christiniaty, to be able to answer opposition to your way of thinking like a child and only shows that you are devoid of any kind of rational, level-headed response. Go warm up your mind on something so you can join a discussion with an average adult's level of thinking ability.

Maybe a course on logic will help, and your beliefs might one day come out of rational thought after graduating from your juvenile level.

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #57 on: Sat Oct 16, 2021 - 12:03:39 »
Hi 4WD. How's it going?

So I see that you're really wanting to show just how completely infantile you are with your continuous petulance, aren't you?

If this is where the rules are set around here, then I'll go ahead and go with it: you are a total disgrace to adulthood, let alone Christiniaty, to be able to answer opposition to your way of thinking like a child and only shows that you are devoid of any kind of rational, level-headed response. Go warm up your mind on something so you can join a discussion with an average adult's level of thinking ability.

Maybe a course on logic will help, and your beliefs might one day come out of rational thought after graduating from your juvenile level.
Says the one who "thinks" like a computer, that is, he doesn't really think at all; but rather only does as he is programed.

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #58 on: Sat Oct 16, 2021 - 12:11:39 »
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Says the one who "thinks" like a computer, that is, he doesn't really think at all; but rather only does as he is programed.

I'm seriously wondering how old you are. I feel like there's no way you could be older than 14. How can you even imagine passing for an adult to talk like this?

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #59 on: Sat Oct 16, 2021 - 12:17:49 »
I'm seriously wondering how old you are. I feel like there's no way you could be older than 14. How can you even imagine passing for an adult to talk like this?
Old enough to know that computers don't think.

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #60 on: Sat Oct 16, 2021 - 12:19:54 »
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Old enough to know that computers don't think.

So you truly lack the self-awareness to be able to see that all you're doing is trolling after some prolonged bitterness? Because you are not making any other point with your behavior whatsoever.

Again, so you need to be spoken to as if you truly are a child.

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #61 on: Sat Oct 16, 2021 - 12:32:02 »
So you truly lack the self-awareness to be able to see that all you're doing is trolling after some prolonged bitterness? Because you are not making any other point with your behavior whatsoever.

Again, so you need to be spoken to as if you truly are a child.

And now perhaps a moderator will lock this topic.

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #62 on: Sat Oct 16, 2021 - 12:39:05 »
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And now perhaps a moderator will lock this topic.

Oh good job, so are you happy that your commonplace trolling behavior might get that result?

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #63 on: Sat Oct 16, 2021 - 13:35:47 »
I don’t want to lock this, I want to see how it plays out.

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #64 on: Sat Oct 16, 2021 - 13:58:13 »
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I don’t want to lock this, I want to see how it plays out.

What, 4WD's worthless comment about thinking like a computer? What's the point? It's obviously a troll comment, but if he isn't done showing his fondness of trolling -- making a completely worthless comment devoid of even an attempt at an insight -- then I'll give that the response that it deserves.

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #65 on: Sat Oct 16, 2021 - 14:00:00 »
Why wait? And be careful about blanket statements about what is worthless!

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #66 on: Sat Oct 16, 2021 - 14:05:06 »
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And be careful about blanket statements about what is worthless!

Okay, let's debate the validity of trolling.

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Re: My Children's Future
« Reply #67 on: Sat Oct 16, 2021 - 14:23:27 »
Oh, it’s valid!