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Author Topic: Not voting is a sin of omission  (Read 4937 times)

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Online Mere Nick

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #105 on: Thu Jul 12, 2018 - 12:49:12 »
No, I don't really get what you mean.  The standards I aim for are above standard.  I don't always hit them, but that's what I'm shooting at.

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #105 on: Thu Jul 12, 2018 - 12:49:12 »

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #106 on: Thu Jul 12, 2018 - 13:10:59 »
No, I don't really get what you mean.  The standards I aim for are above standard.  I don't always hit them, but that's what I'm shooting at.

I don't understand how purposefully abstaining when you can make a difference in the outcome of an extreme liberal election, is above standard.  When it's obviously below standards

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #106 on: Thu Jul 12, 2018 - 13:10:59 »

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #107 on: Thu Jul 12, 2018 - 15:28:18 »
I didn't abstain but if someone did, that would be their choice.  It could be because they didn't see anyone that met their standards.  You can't give us a book, chapter and verse that tells us abstaining is a sin.  All you can do is give a book, chapter and verse as a proof text for an opinion you already have.
   

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #108 on: Thu Jul 12, 2018 - 16:16:17 »
I didn't abstain but if someone did, that would be their choice.  It could be because they didn't see anyone that met their standards.  You can't give us a book, chapter and verse that tells us abstaining is a sin.  All you can do is give a book, chapter and verse as a proof text for an opinion you already have.
   

If you read the OP all your allegations have already been answered in the first post of this forum, didn't you read it?

not voting is supporting the most evil of the politicians who run. 

The Bible tells us that if we know to do the right thing  (to do good) and do not do it, then we are sinning (James 4:17).  That is called a sin of omission. So, is not voting a sin of omission?  The answer lies in determining if the right thing is to vote.
Some would say that choosing to NOT vote in this election is the right thing to do.  Their reasoning is that both candidates oppose God’s principles and precepts. And even though both candidates claim to be Christian, neither one represents what God teaches.
Is that a legitimate reason not to vote?  Or is it simply doing what’s right in one’s own eyes? (We all know how that turned out in the time of the judges of Israel.)
Not Liking the Candidates
Daniel 2:21 and 4:17 tell us that God is the One who raises up kings (that would be Presidents in our time). He puts them in place and He deposes them (He is sovereign).  Therefore, both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton have been raised up by God (or allowed to rise up)  to run for the office of President of the United States  That removes any justification for not voting based on not having an acceptable (in one’s own eyes) candidate. It also removes the objection that neither is God’s choice (God’s will) for our country’s leadership.  God could have raised up others, but these are the two candidates we have.  So to not vote for one of them is to negate that God is sovereign over both the election and the choice of candidates.  Remember, it was God who raised up Nebuchadnezzar to overtake Jerusalem and deport His people to Babylon.
Habakkuk 1:6-7  For indeed I am raising up the Chaldeans [Nebuchadnezzar and the Babylonian army], A bitter and hasty nation which marches through the breadth of the earth, To possess dwelling places that are not theirs.  They are terrible and dreadful; Their judgment and their dignity proceed from themselves.
I’ll bet the people in Jerusalem didn’t like the Chaldeans, but that doesn’t change the fact that God raised them up according to His plan and for His purposes.
Not Voting
Not only did God raise up our two candidates for President, His pattern for government is also reflected in our form of government.
Our nation’s founding fathers were men who believed in God and His Word.  They read the Bible, they prayed, and they patterned our government after God’s precepts and principles. There’s a very interesting verse in the book of Isaiah that points us to God’s pattern of rule.  In this verse, we see a revelation of the pattern that is found in our three-branch form of government.  You’ll find this quite interesting.  Read Is the U.S. Government in the Book of Isaiah?  (link is also at end of this article)
Understanding that God “raised up” our form of government, we must look to His Word to determine our personal responsibility as it relates to our God-ordained governing powers and processes. The Bible tells us that we are subject to the governing powers because God has put them in place. The Bible also tells that we are to submit to them.   
Rom 13:1  Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
1 Pet 2:13  Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme.
We live in a country that allows us to participate in electing our leaders.  God tells us that we are to subject ourselves to the governing powers, so that would also include submitting to the electoral process.  I believe that means all Christians should vote. 
How is Voting Like Praying?
God is sovereign over our nation, it’s leaders, and our government, including the electoral process.  We know that God is sovereign over all things. Nothing happens that is outside God’s will (either His providential or permissive will).  That often raises the question, why should we pray if God is going to do what He plans to do?  And, since we know that God is a good Father and He loves us, why show we pray and ask for things? 
The answer is simple.  God speaks to us through His Word, and, in prayer, we speak to Him. When we take our cares and troubles, our questions and petitions, to God, we are privileged to be able to participate in what He is already doing in our lives.  We pray “Thy will be done,” knowing that He is sovereign.  We ask, with expectancy, knowing  that He hears our prayers, listens and responds by working all things for His glory and our good
Yes, God is sovereign.  And yes, God will work all things according to His purpose and plan. That is true in our lives and it is true in our country and our electoral process.  Therefore, when we vote, we should feel honored that we are given the privilege to participate in what God is doing. 
Is Not Voting a Sin?
Remember James wrote that failing to do the right thing is a sin.  So, is voting the right thing? Is not voting a sin? I’ll let you make the final decision on that.
I think I’ve made a pretty good case for voting.  I believe it is our civic duty, as well as our God-given privilege, to cast our vote in the election.  However, with that said, remember that God loves you. He loves you whether or not you vote.  He won’t love you more if you vote.  And, He won’t love you less if you do not vote.  The real question is, why wouldn’t you want to vote?  Why wouldn’t you want to participate in what God is doing in raising up our next President?
If you choose not to vote, don’t use the excuse, “I didn’t vote, because I don’t like either candidate.”  Maybe just do what Franklin Graham recommended at his Decision America Tours, “Just hold your nose and vote.”  (Was he saying that both candidates stink? LOL)  Remember, God raises up kings.  And, He will raise up one of the two candidates to be our next President. 
Daniel 2:21  [God] changes the times and the seasons; He removes kings and raises up kings…
Daniel 4:17  …the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, Gives it to whomever He will, And sets over it the lowest of men.
Ask for Wisdom…then VOTE!
Casting your vote should always be done with the guidance of the Lord.  The Bible tells us to ask for wisdom and it will be given (James 1:5).  Pray before you vote:
Remember to thank God for the freedoms He has given us and the privilege we have to vote for our leaders.
Remember that Jesus is our True King (Read Is the U.S. Government in the Book of Isaiah?). 
Prayerfully and carefully seek God regarding which candidate to vote for.  There are really only two choices (writing in the name of a candidate that God has not raised up for the office of President is to deny God’s work in ordaining our next President).
Evaluate the candidates based upon which one is most likely to uphold biblical precepts and principles. 
Understand what both the Republican and Democratic platforms stand for and compare them to what God says in the Bible.
Consider the power the next President will have in appointing Supreme Court Justices and the profound effect the judges have for many decades.
Remember that whichever candidate wins, our next President will be used by God to fulfill His purpose and plan for our nation and its people.
Remember the spiritual freedom you have been given in Christ and then participate in the political freedom we still have.

above section from:
https://reasonsforhopejesus.com/not-voting-sin-voting-like-praying/

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #108 on: Thu Jul 12, 2018 - 16:16:17 »

Online Mere Nick

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #109 on: Fri Jul 13, 2018 - 13:04:03 »
yeah, I read.  I stick by my comments.

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #109 on: Fri Jul 13, 2018 - 13:04:03 »



Online godsquadgeek

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #110 on: Fri Jul 13, 2018 - 13:12:11 »
yeah, I read.  I stick by my comments.

cognitive dissonance happens when we have two contradicting viewpoints in our mind.  I await for your reply.  Maybe we can talk this out. But that would mean posting verses like I have done, and not empty opinions of man.

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #111 on: Fri Jul 13, 2018 - 13:12:48 »
If you read the OP all your allegations have already been answered in the first post of this forum, didn't you read it?

not voting is supporting the most evil of the politicians who run. 

The Bible tells us that if we know to do the right thing  (to do good) and do not do it, then we are sinning (James 4:17).  That is called a sin of omission. So, is not voting a sin of omission?  The answer lies in determining if the right thing is to vote.
Some would say that choosing to NOT vote in this election is the right thing to do.  Their reasoning is that both candidates oppose God’s principles and precepts. And even though both candidates claim to be Christian, neither one represents what God teaches.
Is that a legitimate reason not to vote?  Or is it simply doing what’s right in one’s own eyes? (We all know how that turned out in the time of the judges of Israel.)
Not Liking the Candidates
Daniel 2:21 and 4:17 tell us that God is the One who raises up kings (that would be Presidents in our time). He puts them in place and He deposes them (He is sovereign).  Therefore, both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton have been raised up by God (or allowed to rise up)  to run for the office of President of the United States  That removes any justification for not voting based on not having an acceptable (in one’s own eyes) candidate. It also removes the objection that neither is God’s choice (God’s will) for our country’s leadership.  God could have raised up others, but these are the two candidates we have.  So to not vote for one of them is to negate that God is sovereign over both the election and the choice of candidates.  Remember, it was God who raised up Nebuchadnezzar to overtake Jerusalem and deport His people to Babylon.
Habakkuk 1:6-7  For indeed I am raising up the Chaldeans [Nebuchadnezzar and the Babylonian army], A bitter and hasty nation which marches through the breadth of the earth, To possess dwelling places that are not theirs.  They are terrible and dreadful; Their judgment and their dignity proceed from themselves.
I’ll bet the people in Jerusalem didn’t like the Chaldeans, but that doesn’t change the fact that God raised them up according to His plan and for His purposes.
Not Voting
Not only did God raise up our two candidates for President, His pattern for government is also reflected in our form of government.
Our nation’s founding fathers were men who believed in God and His Word.  They read the Bible, they prayed, and they patterned our government after God’s precepts and principles. There’s a very interesting verse in the book of Isaiah that points us to God’s pattern of rule.  In this verse, we see a revelation of the pattern that is found in our three-branch form of government.  You’ll find this quite interesting.  Read Is the U.S. Government in the Book of Isaiah?  (link is also at end of this article)
Understanding that God “raised up” our form of government, we must look to His Word to determine our personal responsibility as it relates to our God-ordained governing powers and processes. The Bible tells us that we are subject to the governing powers because God has put them in place. The Bible also tells that we are to submit to them.   
Rom 13:1  Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
1 Pet 2:13  Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme.
We live in a country that allows us to participate in electing our leaders.  God tells us that we are to subject ourselves to the governing powers, so that would also include submitting to the electoral process.  I believe that means all Christians should vote. 
How is Voting Like Praying?
God is sovereign over our nation, it’s leaders, and our government, including the electoral process.  We know that God is sovereign over all things. Nothing happens that is outside God’s will (either His providential or permissive will).  That often raises the question, why should we pray if God is going to do what He plans to do?  And, since we know that God is a good Father and He loves us, why show we pray and ask for things? 
The answer is simple.  God speaks to us through His Word, and, in prayer, we speak to Him. When we take our cares and troubles, our questions and petitions, to God, we are privileged to be able to participate in what He is already doing in our lives.  We pray “Thy will be done,” knowing that He is sovereign.  We ask, with expectancy, knowing  that He hears our prayers, listens and responds by working all things for His glory and our good
Yes, God is sovereign.  And yes, God will work all things according to His purpose and plan. That is true in our lives and it is true in our country and our electoral process.  Therefore, when we vote, we should feel honored that we are given the privilege to participate in what God is doing. 
Is Not Voting a Sin?
Remember James wrote that failing to do the right thing is a sin.  So, is voting the right thing? Is not voting a sin? I’ll let you make the final decision on that.
I think I’ve made a pretty good case for voting.  I believe it is our civic duty, as well as our God-given privilege, to cast our vote in the election.  However, with that said, remember that God loves you. He loves you whether or not you vote.  He won’t love you more if you vote.  And, He won’t love you less if you do not vote.  The real question is, why wouldn’t you want to vote?  Why wouldn’t you want to participate in what God is doing in raising up our next President?
If you choose not to vote, don’t use the excuse, “I didn’t vote, because I don’t like either candidate.”  Maybe just do what Franklin Graham recommended at his Decision America Tours, “Just hold your nose and vote.”  (Was he saying that both candidates stink? LOL)  Remember, God raises up kings.  And, He will raise up one of the two candidates to be our next President. 
Daniel 2:21  [God] changes the times and the seasons; He removes kings and raises up kings…
Daniel 4:17  …the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, Gives it to whomever He will, And sets over it the lowest of men.
Ask for Wisdom…then VOTE!
Casting your vote should always be done with the guidance of the Lord.  The Bible tells us to ask for wisdom and it will be given (James 1:5).  Pray before you vote:
Remember to thank God for the freedoms He has given us and the privilege we have to vote for our leaders.
Remember that Jesus is our True King (Read Is the U.S. Government in the Book of Isaiah?). 
Prayerfully and carefully seek God regarding which candidate to vote for.  There are really only two choices (writing in the name of a candidate that God has not raised up for the office of President is to deny God’s work in ordaining our next President).
Evaluate the candidates based upon which one is most likely to uphold biblical precepts and principles. 
Understand what both the Republican and Democratic platforms stand for and compare them to what God says in the Bible.
Consider the power the next President will have in appointing Supreme Court Justices and the profound effect the judges have for many decades.
Remember that whichever candidate wins, our next President will be used by God to fulfill His purpose and plan for our nation and its people.
Remember the spiritual freedom you have been given in Christ and then participate in the political freedom we still have.

above section from:
https://reasonsforhopejesus.com/not-voting-sin-voting-like-praying/

Incoherent epistle.

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #112 on: Fri Jul 13, 2018 - 13:18:36 »
Incoherent epistle.

on the contrary, it's one of the most well explained.  Can you provide examples?

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #113 on: Fri Jul 13, 2018 - 13:41:04 »
From the Incoherent epistle: 
Quote
So, is voting the right thing? Is not voting a sin? I’ll let you make the final decision on that.
  Exactly.  Yet, when I agree with this small part I'm called wrong by the guy who posted it in the first place.  Voting is one of the items on my list of things where I'll do what I want and figure if folks don't like it they can pound sand.
 

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #114 on: Fri Jul 13, 2018 - 14:56:12 »
Also from the incoherent epistle

Remember that whichever candidate wins, our next President will be used by God to fulfill His purpose and plan for our nation and its people.

...hence it doesn't matter who you vote for, or even if you vote

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #115 on: Fri Jul 13, 2018 - 16:03:05 »
Also from the incoherent epistle

...hence it doesn't matter who you vote for, or even if you vote

Do you believe that God uses people for his purposes? That is, to get things done here on earth?

IF you do then you surly believe that God would move someone toward voting for the person He wants to be in office for His plans.

OTHERWISE, how would that person get in office, if not for voters and not for some who God spurred that way.

I saw this work in 2016 with those who were dead set against Trump and then a month later were his strongest supporters

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #116 on: Fri Jul 13, 2018 - 17:43:33 »
From the Incoherent epistle:    Exactly.  Yet, when I agree with this small part I'm called wrong by the guy who posted it in the first place.  Voting is one of the items on my list of things where I'll do what I want and figure if folks don't like it they can pound sand.
 

yes, that part i didnt' agree with.  but i didn't want to erase the quote from the op because it showed the authors intent.  I did clarify right after this what my view was.  And still I don't have any takers who want to truly debate the scripture itself.  But rather post rudeness and crassness, and refuse to use logic.
« Last Edit: Fri Jul 13, 2018 - 17:45:40 by godsquadgeek »

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #117 on: Fri Jul 13, 2018 - 22:53:37 »
Do you believe that God uses people for his purposes? That is, to get things done here on earth?

IF you do then you surly believe that God would move someone toward voting for the person He wants to be in office for His plans.

OTHERWISE, how would that person get in office, if not for voters and not for some who God spurred that way.

I saw this work in 2016 with those who were dead set against Trump and then a month later were his strongest supporters

Yes I believe God works with and through people to realize His plans.
I also believe that our election process is completely irrelevant to God.

If God decides to realize His plans through one of the candidates, then He will. If He decides to use neither of the candidates, that's His prerogative too.
And He even may decide to use both. If someone decides not to vote, that would not make the slightest difference for the plans of God.
Some people seem to forget that God also put leadership in place to punish a nation. Scripture is filled with such examples.

If God is indeed the Grand Designer of the US electoral process, then He is also the Grand Designer of the option not to cast your vote.
The option to not vote is as much a legal option as voting for either candidate.
For all I know the test of the nation is that God presents two evil candidates, and expects every Christian with a moral compass to vote neither.

And how would you know the US electoral process is God's gift to the people?
There are dozens of different democratic electoral processes in the world. They produce both good and evil leadership.
Just go back 60 years in US history and see what leadership was produced, and the war they upheld.
You have a wall with 58,000 names written on it to remind you of the price paid for evil leadership.

To insinuate that those who did not vote, or those who voted for the wrong candidate, sin against God is quite ridiculous.

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #118 on: Fri Jul 13, 2018 - 23:43:52 »
AVZ said
Quote
To insinuate that those who did not vote, or those who voted for the wrong candidate, sin against God is quite ridiculous.

Indeed.  It pretty much preaching a different gospel. 

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #119 on: Fri Jul 13, 2018 - 23:47:05 »
Yes I believe God works with and through people to realize His plans.
I also believe that our election process is completely irrelevant to God.

If God decides to realize His plans through one of the candidates, then He will. If He decides to use neither of the candidates, that's His prerogative too.
And He even may decide to use both. If someone decides not to vote, that would not make the slightest difference for the plans of God.
Some people seem to forget that God also put leadership in place to punish a nation. Scripture is filled with such examples.

If God is indeed the Grand Designer of the US electoral process, then He is also the Grand Designer of the option not to cast your vote.
The option to not vote is as much a legal option as voting for either candidate.
For all I know the test of the nation is that God presents two evil candidates, and expects every Christian with a moral compass to vote neither.

And how would you know the US electoral process is God's gift to the people?
There are dozens of different democratic electoral processes in the world. They produce both good and evil leadership.
Just go back 60 years in US history and see what leadership was produced, and the war they upheld.
You have a wall with 58,000 names written on it to remind you of the price paid for evil leadership.

To insinuate that those who did not vote, or those who voted for the wrong candidate, sin against God is quite ridiculous.
  how is elections irrelevant to God.  Remember  when Saul was chosen as king, despite God's warnings.  He was chosen by God.  But it was the responsibility  of the people to ensure God's will was followed.  God didn't  put Saul in office without human aide.  They still had free will to reject God's plan.

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #120 on: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 09:07:01 »
To insinuate that those who did not vote, or those who voted for the wrong candidate, sin against God is quite ridiculous.
do you have verses to back up your claim, I quoted at least half a dozen showing abstaining from voting was a sin.  and yet not a single person questioned the verses, which signifies that people are simply trolling here.

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #121 on: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 12:29:15 »
godsquadgeek said 
Quote
I quoted at least half a dozen showing abstaining from voting was a sin.
 

No, you haven't posted a single verse that shows abstaining from voting is a sin.  You've just posted verses that you claim to back up something you already believe.  I could twist them and read into what I want them to say to make the claim that not sending me a hundred bucks is a sin and I'd be just as on target as you are.

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #122 on: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 12:53:20 »
godsquadgeek said   

No, you haven't posted a single verse that shows abstaining from voting is a sin.  You've just posted verses that you claim to back up something you already believe.  I could twist them and read into what I want them to say to make the claim that not sending me a hundred bucks is a sin and I'd be just as on target as you are.

the point is you ask me for verses, but post no verses on your own.

we can clearly see you are not willing to respond to the verses posted, but simply want to argue.

here is a few more for you to ignore:

Deuteronomy 16:18 New King James Version (NKJV)

18 “You shall appoint judges and officers in all your [a]gates, which the Lord your God gives you, according to your tribes, and they shall judge the people with just judgment.

1 Peter 2:13-14 New King James Version (NKJV)

13 Therefore submit yourselves to every [a]ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether to the king as supreme, 14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
« Last Edit: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 14:37:53 by godsquadgeek »

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #123 on: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 14:41:03 »
Just a small comment from this peanut gallery.

IF Not voting is a sin of omission then I am pre confessing my plan to likely sin.

I have 3 more planned elections in my life, should I live that long.

2018 Mid terms

2020 Presidential

2022 Mid terms if President Trump wins 2020.

Other then that... it depends and if I don't I won't sweat it.

Your question Godsquadgeek
what if a pedophile priest who had HIV  raped dozens of toddlers and was forgiven by the catholic church and wanted to run for office and there was only one who was strong enough to defeat him.

not voting would be letting this monster rule.

Is a very valid one. But in the past couple of years , knowing who there is that runs for office... can you be assured that the one beating this awful man is not equally as bad or maybe worse in his own right?

It is quite a slipper slope... this politic thing... and this is coming from one who only ever missed 2 primary elections in the past 50 years of her life since I first voted at 21.

I only know that now, without question I would only vote republican. And not because of being a registered one... for that is changing.

But because I cannot accept what those on the left accept and also many on the right.

But that is just me


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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #124 on: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 14:48:35 »
Just a small comment from this peanut gallery.

IF Not voting is a sin of omission then I am pre confessing my plan to likely sin.

I have 3 more planned elections in my life, should I live that long.

2018 Mid terms

2020 Presidential

2022 Mid terms if President Trump wins 2020.

Other then that... it depends and if I don't I won't sweat it.

Your question Godsquadgeek
what if a pedophile priest who had HIV  raped dozens of toddlers and was forgiven by the catholic church and wanted to run for office and there was only one who was strong enough to defeat him.

not voting would be letting this monster rule.

Is a very valid one. But in the past couple of years , knowing who there is that runs for office... can you be assured that the one beating this awful man is not equally as bad or maybe worse in his own right?

It is quite a slipper slope... this politic thing... and this is coming from one who only ever missed 2 primary elections in the past 50 years of her life since I first voted at 21.

I only know that now, without question I would only vote republican. And not because of being a registered one... for that is changing.

But because I cannot accept what those on the left accept and also many on the right.

But that is just me

the Bible commands that we vote:

Deuteronomy 16:18 New King James Version (NKJV)

18 “You shall appoint judges and officers in all your [a]gates, which the Lord your God gives you, according to your tribes, and they shall judge the people with just judgment.

Offline Ginger Rella

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #125 on: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 17:50:24 »
the Bible commands that we vote:

Deuteronomy 16:18 New King James Version (NKJV)

18 “You shall appoint judges and officers in all your [a]gates, which the Lord your God gives you, according to your tribes, and they shall judge the people with just judgment.

Not to e argumentative but I view the word appoint and the word vote as not the same... but for the sake of example let me give you a scenario.

We will use your example of the dastardly candidate for candidate 1

And then we will use the loser of the last prez election of 2016 for candidate 2

We are aware of the sins and bad acts of candidate #1.

So leaning toward candidate #2.... ALL OF A SUDDEN THIS MAKES THE NEWS.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/bombshell-hillary-clinton-pedophile-sex-tape-released-mata-torres/

WHO are you going to vote for.... and before answering look at the link...

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #126 on: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 17:54:31 »
Not to e argumentative but I view the word appoint and the word vote as not the same... but for the sake of example let me give you a scenario.

We will use your example of the dastardly candidate for candidate 1

And then we will use the loser of the last prez election of 2016 for candidate 2

We are aware of the sins and bad acts of candidate #1.

So leaning toward candidate #2.... ALL OF A SUDDEN THIS MAKES THE NEWS.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/bombshell-hillary-clinton-pedophile-sex-tape-released-mata-torres/

WHO are you going to vote for.... and before answering look at the link...

so your comparing 30 counts of pedophilia, to one count?

I would go with the later, wouldn't you?

and I am still waiting for your reasoning as to why appoint and vote are not the same?

it's voting, how in fact, they are appointed?

Again, I await your response.

Offline Ginger Rella

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #127 on: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 18:34:37 »
so your comparing 30 counts of pedophilia, to one count?

I would go with the later, wouldn't you?

and I am still waiting for your reasoning as to why appoint and vote are not the same?

it's voting, how in fact, they are appointed?

Again, I await your response.


appointed
[uh-poin-tid]

SynonymsExamplesWord Origin

See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com

adjective

by, through, or as a result of an appointment (often in contrast with elected):
an appointed official.

elected
[ih-lek-tid]

ExamplesWord Origin

See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
adjective

chosen by vote, as for an office (contrasted with appointed):
an elected official.

Example:
Donald Trump was elected by common vote by way of the electoral college final count.

Once sworn in he appointed his daughter and son in law to certain positions.

In additions:

The goal of a presidential transition team is not only to help the president-elect prepare to take office, but to fill roughly 4,000 politically appointed positions, including more than 1,000 jobs requiring Senate confirmation.
from http://presidentialtransition.org/timeline/appointments/index.php

So some get a straight appointment for a job, and some need the Senate approval.

BUT APPOINTED are not elected by the people.

NOW... if your example from Deuteronomy 16:18 should mean electing and in voting and not appointing, then take it up with the translators.....

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #128 on: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 18:52:33 »
appointed
[uh-poin-tid]

SynonymsExamplesWord Origin

See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com

adjective

by, through, or as a result of an appointment (often in contrast with elected):
an appointed official.

elected
[ih-lek-tid]

ExamplesWord Origin

See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
adjective

chosen by vote, as for an office (contrasted with appointed):
an elected official.

Example:
Donald Trump was elected by common vote by way of the electoral college final count.

Once sworn in he appointed his daughter and son in law to certain positions.

In additions:

The goal of a presidential transition team is not only to help the president-elect prepare to take office, but to fill roughly 4,000 politically appointed positions, including more than 1,000 jobs requiring Senate confirmation.
from http://presidentialtransition.org/timeline/appointments/index.php

So some get a straight appointment for a job, and some need the Senate approval.

BUT APPOINTED are not elected by the people.

NOW... if your example from Deuteronomy 16:18 should mean electing and in voting and not appointing, then take it up with the translators.....


and english thesaurus is not a hebrew dictionary so it holds no water in a Biblical debate over hebrew words.

however this is all meaningless because do you remember the innaguration ceremonies?  That is when they are appointed president.

so voting is how we appoint our current leaders.

and you know this, so I am unsure why you are trying to be so misleading here.

secondly in hebrew the word means "to give"  not to appoint (so again your english word study is of no use with hebrew words):

5414. נָתַן nāthan: A verb meaning to give, to place. This verb is used approximately two thousand times in the Old Testament; therefore, it is understandable that it should have a broad semantic range. However, it is possible to identify three general categories of semantic variation: (1) to give, whether it be the exchange of tangible property (Gen. 3:6; Ex. 5:18); the production of fruit (Ps. 1:3); the presentation of an offering to the Lord (Ex. 30:14); the passing on of knowledge and instruction (Prov. 9:9); the granting of permission (Gen. 20:6). Often, God provides either preservation (Lev. 26:4; Deut. 11:14, 15; Jer. 45:5); or plague (Ex. 9:23). (2) This Hebrew word also means to put, to place, or something literally placed: the luminaries in the sky (Gen. 1:17); God’s bow in the clouds (Gen. 9:13); the ark on a cart (1 Sam. 6:8); the abomination in the temple. It could also be something figuratively placed: an obstacle (Ezek. 3:20); God’s Spirit (Isa. 42:1); reproach (Jer. 23:40); curses (Deut. 30:7). (3) The word can also mean to make or to constitute, such as the prohibition against making incisions in one’s flesh (Lev. 19:28); God making Abraham into a father of many nations (Gen. 17:5); or Solomon making silver as stones (1 Kgs. 10:27).

Baker, W., & Carpenter, E. E. (2003). The complete word study dictionary: Old Testament (pp. 761–762). Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers.



« Last Edit: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 18:59:28 by godsquadgeek »

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #129 on: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 19:05:57 »
and english thesaurus is not a hebrew dictionary so it holds no water in a Biblical debate over hebrew words.

however this is all meaningless because do you remember the innaguration ceremonies?  That is when they are appointed president.

so voting is how we appoint our current leaders.

and you know this, so I am unsure why you are trying to be so misleading here.

secondly in hebrew the word means "to give"  not to appoint (so again your english word study is of no use with hebrew words):

5414. נָתַן nāthan: A verb meaning to give, to place. This verb is used approximately two thousand times in the Old Testament; therefore, it is understandable that it should have a broad semantic range. However, it is possible to identify three general categories of semantic variation: (1) to give, whether it be the exchange of tangible property (Gen. 3:6; Ex. 5:18); the production of fruit (Ps. 1:3); the presentation of an offering to the Lord (Ex. 30:14); the passing on of knowledge and instruction (Prov. 9:9); the granting of permission (Gen. 20:6). Often, God provides either preservation (Lev. 26:4; Deut. 11:14, 15; Jer. 45:5); or plague (Ex. 9:23). (2) This Hebrew word also means to put, to place, or something literally placed: the luminaries in the sky (Gen. 1:17); God’s bow in the clouds (Gen. 9:13); the ark on a cart (1 Sam. 6:8); the abomination in the temple. It could also be something figuratively placed: an obstacle (Ezek. 3:20); God’s Spirit (Isa. 42:1); reproach (Jer. 23:40); curses (Deut. 30:7). (3) The word can also mean to make or to constitute, such as the prohibition against making incisions in one’s flesh (Lev. 19:28); God making Abraham into a father of many nations (Gen. 17:5); or Solomon making silver as stones (1 Kgs. 10:27).

Baker, W., & Carpenter, E. E. (2003). The complete word study dictionary: Old Testament (pp. 761–762). Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers.

If you say so. I give up.

I freely admit to not understanding when we get into the ancient Hebrew/ Koine Greek languages that modern interpretations came from. So I am calling uncle.

 I will just have to own it then should I decide to not vote and it be a sin .

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #130 on: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 19:18:44 »
If you say so. I give up.

I freely admit to not understanding when we get into the ancient Hebrew/ Koine Greek languages that modern interpretations came from. So I am calling uncle.

 I will just have to own it then should I decide to not vote and it be a sin .

well we are saved by grace through faith, but it is important to know about sin in our lives as well.  And know that there are things that God commands us to do in the bible to better society, to feed the poor, to pay taxes, to help the widow and the orphan, and in this case to choose the best qualified leader.

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #131 on: Sun Jul 15, 2018 - 03:25:48 »
the Bible commands that we vote:

Deuteronomy 16:18 New King James Version (NKJV)

18 “You shall appoint judges and officers in all your [a]gates, which the Lord your God gives you, according to your tribes, and they shall judge the people with just judgment.

The Bible says that we shall appoint just judges.
It doesn't say at all that the appointment shall be by vote, or decree, or trowing dice, or pulling straws, or experience, or whatever process.
All the Bible says is that we shall appoint judges and they have to be just.

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #132 on: Sun Jul 15, 2018 - 03:32:31 »
do you have verses to back up your claim, I quoted at least half a dozen showing abstaining from voting was a sin.  and yet not a single person questioned the verses, which signifies that people are simply trolling here.

I second Mere Nick, you haven't shown anything.
The texts have nothing to do with the electoral process.
Your epistle is exactly what it is: incoherent.

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #133 on: Sun Jul 15, 2018 - 06:50:18 »
The Bible never mentions anything about a democratic voting system so using those Biblical verses to support leaders as chosen by God must leave one to wonder when we consider some of the tyrannical leaders that have committed mass atrocities, if indeed the system of government leadership is truly a one-size-fits-all plan.

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #134 on: Sun Jul 15, 2018 - 07:24:04 »
The Bible never mentions anything about a democratic voting system so using those Biblical verses to support leaders as chosen by God must leave one to wonder when we consider some of the tyrannical leaders that have committed mass atrocities, if indeed the system of government leadership is truly a one-size-fits-all plan.

Okay Alan....

While the bible never mentions about a democratic voting system.... of which I totally agree   

" leaders as chosen by God must leave one to wonder"  We have this statement which I have always hung my hat on

Romans 13 NIV

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

Romans 13 NKJV

13 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will [a]bring judgment on themselves.

These do not tell us by what means God gets those authorities into office.... BUT it does tell us that ALL are ( or have been) because it is what He wants.

I have no clue why. God is the creator of all things, including weeds. And I have no idea why .

But this is , after all God's creation and He is allowed to move His chess pieces any way He wants to for His benefit and enjoyment. Tyrannical leaders and yes, even Obama....

As to "The Bible never mentions anything about a democratic voting system so using those Biblical verses to support leaders as chosen by God "...

That , IMO, is translation hiccups.

There are those scholarly ones on here who will tell us the Hebrew and Koine Greek translations for each word and idea in the Holy book.

But what we do not and cannot know is if the people who wrote the original Hebrew and Koine Greek totally accurate in what they were writing or is it possible they condensed some of it figuring that we all would get the idea by what they said, as they were doing this all painfully by hand.

We do not know.... and especially those who translated things from Latin and Aramaic and even Hebrew into Koine Greek.... Who knows?

The bible is our handbook and in areas it is seemingly incomplete.....

So just throwing out that possibility that some abridged translations due to time and writer's cramp may be most likely.

Not that it takes anything away from the bible.... but leaves areas of appointing up in the air with no explanation as to how or what appointing meant in that day.








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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #135 on: Sun Jul 15, 2018 - 07:31:57 »
The Bible says that we shall appoint just judges.
It doesn't say at all that the appointment shall be by vote, or decree, or trowing dice, or pulling straws, or experience, or whatever process.
All the Bible says is that we shall appoint judges and they have to be just.

voting is how we appoint our politicians now days, mosaic law didn't allow for voting.  and The point is that it was a sin, not to appoint them. 
« Last Edit: Sun Jul 15, 2018 - 07:39:11 by godsquadgeek »

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #136 on: Sun Jul 15, 2018 - 09:01:56 »
voting is how we appoint our politicians now days, mosaic law didn't allow for voting.  and The point is that it was a sin, not to appoint them.

Again, the part in Deuteronomy is about appointing JUDGES
The Bible doesn't say anything about appointing politicians.
What God wanted the Israelites to do is set up a just judicial system, where people with disputes could go and where justice would prevail.
And yes, appointing a corrupt judge is a sin and being a corrupt judge is a sin as well.

You are pulling scripture complete out of context.
Deuteronomy has nothing to do with an electoral process.

You are correct when you say "voting is how WE appoint our politicians now days"
What "we" do has nothing to do with God. There are also countries that do not use an electoral system, and there are countries with a complete different electoral system from the US system.
NONE of these systems are described or commanded in scripture.

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #137 on: Sun Jul 15, 2018 - 09:25:18 »
Again, the part in Deuteronomy is about appointing JUDGES
The Bible doesn't say anything about appointing politicians.
What God wanted the Israelites to do is set up a just judicial system, where people with disputes could go and where justice would prevail.
And yes, appointing a corrupt judge is a sin and being a corrupt judge is a sin as well.

You are pulling scripture complete out of context.
Deuteronomy has nothing to do with an electoral process.

You are correct when you say "voting is how WE appoint our politicians now days"
What "we" do has nothing to do with God. There are also countries that do not use an electoral system, and there are countries with a complete different electoral system from the US system.
NONE of these systems are described or commanded in scripture.

politicians are who appoints the judges, we elect the politician.

so the verse applies to both.

that verse can apply to any culture.

Israel who used this law originally, currently uses voting as well.

point is the the responsibility falls on the people to make sure proper leadership is built.

refusing that duty is lazy and a sin.




« Last Edit: Sun Jul 15, 2018 - 09:32:44 by godsquadgeek »

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #138 on: Sun Jul 15, 2018 - 09:41:49 »
Okay Alan....

While the bible never mentions about a democratic voting system.... of which I totally agree   

" leaders as chosen by God must leave one to wonder"  We have this statement which I have always hung my hat on

Romans 13 NIV

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

Romans 13 NKJV

13 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will [a]bring judgment on themselves.

These do not tell us by what means God gets those authorities into office.... BUT it does tell us that ALL are ( or have been) because it is what He wants.

I have no clue why. God is the creator of all things, including weeds. And I have no idea why .

But this is , after all God's creation and He is allowed to move His chess pieces any way He wants to for His benefit and enjoyment. Tyrannical leaders and yes, even Obama....

As to "The Bible never mentions anything about a democratic voting system so using those Biblical verses to support leaders as chosen by God "...

That , IMO, is translation hiccups.

There are those scholarly ones on here who will tell us the Hebrew and Koine Greek translations for each word and idea in the Holy book.

But what we do not and cannot know is if the people who wrote the original Hebrew and Koine Greek totally accurate in what they were writing or is it possible they condensed some of it figuring that we all would get the idea by what they said, as they were doing this all painfully by hand.

We do not know.... and especially those who translated things from Latin and Aramaic and even Hebrew into Koine Greek.... Who knows?

The bible is our handbook and in areas it is seemingly incomplete.....

So just throwing out that possibility that some abridged translations due to time and writer's cramp may be most likely.

Not that it takes anything away from the bible.... but leaves areas of appointing up in the air with no explanation as to how or what appointing meant in that day.


With the Stalins and Hitlers of the world, it's difficult to accept that it was God's will.

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Re: Not voting is a sin of omission
« Reply #139 on: Sun Jul 15, 2018 - 09:54:49 »
Hundreds of things scripture calls sin yet folks want to keep inventing new ones and condemn others for not agreeing with their conclusions.   

 

     
anything