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Offline LightHammer

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Obama-Opposers
« on: October 27, 2010, 04:10:22 AM »
While using "opposers" for the lack thereof of a better word, I just wanted to better underdstand why people don't like Obama so much? Now I'm a black guy from Indiana and all I ever hear when I ask other black people I know why they think other people oppose Obama they alsways try to make it out to be a race issue. I know racism still exists in the world but I don't think its the main underlying platform for "Obama-haters".

I don't really know too much when it comes to politics. "A soldier has the pleasure of looking his enemy in the eye", Maximus Decimus Meredius, Gladitor

But really I'm an independent by default so I'm really just asking.
"For they needs must seek some support,  since they have fallen from the foundation of the Apostles and have no settled mind of their own, and if they can find none, then they malign the fathers. But no one will believe them any more even if they make efforts to libel them, for their heresy is condemned on all hands." St. Athanasius of Alexandria

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Obama-Opposers
« on: October 27, 2010, 04:10:22 AM »

Online marc

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Re: Obama-Opposers
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2010, 04:46:42 AM »
I'd better get in here now, because I know most will disagree with this.

Many white people I know also think that race is behind the rhetoric. I certainly think it contributes to it. So much of what you hear has a 'he's not one of us' subtext--see the birth certificate flap (many who use this don't see its racist origins) or Gingrich's Kenyan tribesman comment. While that's part of it, I think there's more.

The right has moved further and further to the right over the last few decades, and now many, with their views constantly reinforced by a special brand of media that's sprung up, see themselves as the center, and this distorts the whole spectrum. Policies that are similar to ones actually supported by Reagan now become socialism. Everything center-left (and some moderate right) becomes a threat to our way of life.

And Obama personifies that threat. Muslim name. Not the type of guy we usually elect. Again, there's a racial subtext, but, perhaps more importantly, there's a fear of change, a fear of losing hold on the country and its traditions. You would have seen the same kind of attacks, if not worse, had Hillary been elected president, I think.

Now, having said that, I'll leave the discussion to those who will tell you Obama's a radical liberal socialist commie Nazi.

btw, I'm disappointed with him because he has continued too many of Bush's policies, particularly regarding government secrecy and mining private data, his health bill was weak, and he hasn't rallied the American people behind him. Unlike many here, however, I want him to succeed.
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Re: Obama-Opposers
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2010, 04:46:42 AM »

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Obama-Opposers
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2010, 05:55:50 AM »
While using "opposers" for the lack thereof of a better word, I just wanted to better underdstand why people don't like Obama so much?

He seems a likable guy and would probably be a better guy to go with fishing or to a ballgame than most politicians.  He seems a strong family man and I suspect that is due in part to his family situation growing up.

What do I not like about him?  In short, his policies are a disaster.  He comes across as a hyper-statist and, accordingly, most folks are economically hunkered down and not so concerned about building for the future right now but just trying to weather the storm.
taller, better looking and smarter . . .

They turned me loose from the nervous hospital.  Said I was well.  Mmm hmm.

Suffering for your beliefs is called faithfulness, making others suffer for your beliefs is called being a jerk.

His cross, like the ark in the wilderness, is the center around which his people are to encamp; so that they cannot separate into factions, or withdraw from each other, without retiring at the same time from the presence of the cross.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Obama-Opposers
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2010, 05:56:24 AM »
I oppose Obama because I disagree with his policies, like I did with Carter and Clinton. I thought it was high time we had a black President as most Americans did ecidenced by Pres. Obama's approval right after being elected. It was over 70 percent if I remember. I just would have preferred a conservative black person such as JC Watts. There are many many white people I would not want as President. All that said, are there people that have racist motives? Sure. Just like I think a lot of people hated Bush for simplistic reasons like him being a Texan with a funny drawl, I respect all Presidents and their demonstrated personal grit and intelligence to have gotten where they are, Obama included. 
So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. - Milton Friedman

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. - Milton Friedman

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Re: Obama-Opposers
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2010, 05:56:24 AM »

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Obama-Opposers
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2010, 07:03:00 AM »
I respect all Presidents and their demonstrated personal grit and intelligence to have gotten where they are . . .

One could say the exact same thing about cat burglars.
taller, better looking and smarter . . .

They turned me loose from the nervous hospital.  Said I was well.  Mmm hmm.

Suffering for your beliefs is called faithfulness, making others suffer for your beliefs is called being a jerk.

His cross, like the ark in the wilderness, is the center around which his people are to encamp; so that they cannot separate into factions, or withdraw from each other, without retiring at the same time from the presence of the cross.

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Re: Obama-Opposers
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2010, 07:03:00 AM »



Offline Jaime

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Re: Obama-Opposers
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2010, 07:32:52 AM »
Touche' Mon Ami'
So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. - Milton Friedman

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. - Milton Friedman

Offline Jimmy

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Re: Obama-Opposers
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2010, 07:54:53 AM »
There is a new book out by D'Souza called "The Roots of Obama's Rage".  It presents a very scary picture of the man that is POTUS.  I am not sure that what is presented there is really what has so many people down on Obama, but certainly some of it is.

It is very interesting reading.  An interesting aspect of the book is that the author is Indian (India not Native American) and so perhaps sees Obama from a little different perspective that many of us.

One of the points that D'Souza makes, and perhaps what is frustrating even Obama's black supporters, is that Obama does not identify with the typical black in the racial overtones of America's past.  He has not endured the quiet racism of even today.  He has not experienced the effects of segregation of even his immediate family, since they did not experience that.  His mother was white, his father was black Kenyan.  The history of American segregation is foreign to him.  He, in a lot of ways, enjoyed a very sheltered upbringing so far as any racism is concerned.

One of the other points that D'Souza makes is that much of Obama comes from his own efforts to connect with his fathers ideology of anti-colonialism.  Much of that, D'Souza gleans from Obama's own book, "Dreams From My Father".  I have not read that book, but I plan to.

All of this goes to suggest that much of the opposition that has risen against Obama is because Obama isn't really the person that anyone, black or white, right or left, thought he was.

Personally, I think a lot of the animosity stems from the fact that Obama is fundamentally a secular socialist and is working very hard to turn America into a secular socialist nation and only about 20% of the population is in agreement with that effort.  That is, most people do not like the direction that they see Obama trying to move the country.  They simply do not like his policies.

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Re: Obama-Opposers
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2010, 07:57:31 AM »

While using "opposers" for the lack thereof of a better word, I just wanted to better underdstand why people don't like Obama so much? Now I'm a black guy from Indiana and all I ever hear when I ask other black people I know why they think other people oppose Obama they alsways try to make it out to be a race issue. I know racism still exists in the world but I don't think its the main underlying platform for "Obama-haters".

I don't really know too much when it comes to politics. "A soldier has the pleasure of looking his enemy in the eye", Maximus Decimus Meredius, Gladitor

But really I'm an independent by default so I'm really just asking.

 

Hi Brother Lighthammer. I have no opposition to the power that God put into the White House for we read that there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. On top of that we read that whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God.

In fact I like many things about our president, and those seemingly against him are the very ones that say that God uses them to vote in the man in office. Let me add this up; Obama is in office, their vote put him there, and now they cry that he is there.   ???

Offline jonmower

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Re: Obama-Opposers
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2010, 08:03:09 AM »
It's not surprising that conservatives disagree with many of Obama's policies.  What is odd is how vehement and over-the-top the oppositions is.  He's trying to destroy the country! We've got to take our country back!  He's a socialist!  He's a communist!  He's a Luo tribesman!  He wants to impose the secular socialist machine!

The health care law is strikingly similar to Romneycare, to Dole/Baker/Daschle's proposal, and to Chafee's bill from 1993.  The individual mandate was originally a conservative proposal.  TARP and the auto bailouts happened under Bush.  Bush practiced stimulus spending during his term too.  Bush added more to the deficit than Washington to Reagan combined.  On the wars and the expansion of government power post-9/11, Obama is right in line with Bush. 

The facts suggest Obama is a conventional, relatively centrist, liberal who is married to the existing power structures of American politics and believes in making incremental progress (as he sees it) through political compromise. 

Many conservatives can rightly claim that they were opposed to many of Bush's policies too.  Many conservatives can rightly claim to not liking McCain either.  However, the opposition to Bush policies and dislike of McCain was not on the same level as the reaction to Obama.

How can we explain the intensity of opposition to Obama?  I think subconsciously it's easier to strongly dislike Obama because he is different.  I think economic suffering also amplifies discontent.

Ultimately, however, I think it is mainly just that Obama is on the other team.  The us vs. them postures that both sides adopt in their struggle for power obscures the reasonableness of we...that WE are actually all on the same team.  Many liberals have an irrational hatred of Bush.  Many conservatives have an irrational hatred of the Clintons (impeachment over Lewinsky, suspicions that the Clintons murder their enemies, etc.).  Obama's continuation of many Bush-era policies doesn't prompt the same response that they did under Bush.

Offline Jimmy

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Re: Obama-Opposers
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2010, 08:12:46 AM »
Obama's recent statements that the Republicans are welcome aboard but they "have to go to the back of the bus" and his reference to those who oppose him as "enemies" tells us a lot about the man.

Neither of those statements are in the least "Presidential".  They are not what we expect from the most powerful man on the earth.

His associations with the likes of Jeremiah Wright, William Ayres, Van Jones etc, and the fact that he is straight out of the Chicago Democratic Machine all suggest a less than honorable man is our President.  Most are beginning to see through the facade and they don't like what they see.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Obama-Opposers
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2010, 08:16:26 AM »
I think a lot of folks hope he would one to tear down walls, but he appears to many as extremely divisive. His fault or not.

I also think a lot of his associations in the past have dismayed some folks.
It's politics, every opposition has claimed to want to "take back" the country for decades. It isn't at all because a black man is in the Whitehouse.
So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. - Milton Friedman

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. - Milton Friedman

Offline Jaime

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Re: Obama-Opposers
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2010, 08:17:49 AM »
Nancy Pelosi promised to "drain the swamp" and no one believes that we have an improvement.
So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. - Milton Friedman

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. - Milton Friedman

Offline jonmower

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Re: Obama-Opposers
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2010, 08:22:47 AM »
There is a new book out by D'Souza called "The Roots of Obama's Rage".  It presents a very scary picture of the man that is POTUS.  I am not sure that what is presented there is really what has so many people down on Obama, but certainly some of it is.


David Frum's take on the D'Souza's thesis, his cover story in Forbes, and Gingrich taking the ball and running with it: link.  Money quote:

Quote
Conservatives object to the Obama administration as too expensive, too regulatory, too intrusive, too beholden to Democratic special interest groups, and too apologetic about America’s role in the world. It’s a libel to claim that we object to the administration as too black or too alien. Bad enough when the libel is issued by liberals. Much worse when it is heard from our own writers, from magazines that speak to us, from political leaders who would speak for us.


From Andrew Ferguson's (senior editor at The Weekly Standard) review of D'Souza's book (link):

Quote
...Jack Kemp, a man not known for terseness: President Clinton, Kemp said, had brought to Washington something it had never seen before, the “first frankly left-wing administration in history.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Obama-Opposers
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2010, 08:27:42 AM »
Just so long as the Left doesn't take this election coming up seriously. Obama will be rescued to be a good President by a Republican House and hopefully a Republican Senate, just as Clinton was.

Or he could go the way of Carter with a Democrat Congress.
So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. - Milton Friedman

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. - Milton Friedman

Offline Jimmy

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Re: Obama-Opposers
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2010, 08:41:50 AM »
Just so long as the Left doesn't take this election coming up seriously. Obama will be rescued to be a good President by a Republican House and hopefully a Republican Senate, just as Clinton was.

Or he could go the way of Carter with a Democrat Congress.

I think that Carter should thank Obama.  Obama is probably the only thing that will make Carter look good by comparison.