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Author Topic: Ron Paul: Texan of the Year?  (Read 583 times)
James.
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« on: November 30, 2008, 06:11:47 AM »

Rod Dreher: Ron Paul, if only we listened

"I didn't vote for Ron Paul in the Republican primary (I was a Mike Huckabee man), nor did I write him in on Election Day (I penciled in farmer-poet Wendell Berry). But no Texan this year did more good for conservatism and his country than the congressman from the coast."
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Jaime
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2008, 12:16:32 PM »

I vote for Jaime as Texan of the Year!
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2008, 12:16:32 PM »

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« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2009, 01:49:04 PM »

Rod Dreher: Ron Paul, if only we listened

"I didn't vote for Ron Paul in the Republican primary (I was a Mike Huckabee man), nor did I write him in on Election Day (I penciled in farmer-poet Wendell Berry). But no Texan this year did more good for conservatism and his country than the congressman from the coast."

If only real conservatives would have voted for him and gotten him past McCain on the ballot.  The choice (other than third party) was George W. Obama or George W. McCain.  Some "conservatives" and "republicans" are content to keep playing defense until progressives push us off the field entirely.
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Jaime
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« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2009, 02:49:57 PM »

In politics, you must play defense first to prevent the worst of 2 evils. THEN you play offense. If you don't play prevent defense in politics, you won't prevent what needs preventing, such as electing Obama with Pelosi and Reid chaser.

It's always going to be a 2 sided race. Yes the teams can change, but until they do and a new 2nd party or a rejuvenated 2nd party, the 3rd party offering simply help the worst side. Unless of course you prefer the worst side, then that would make them the vest side.

Whatever party is brought to bear against the Dems must be well organized, well funded and have an even chance of winning. If not it is the Dems passive  secret weapon.

The GOP can and must change. Replacing the GOP will be too hard and take too long. The country can't afford not to change it.

My favorite topic by the way!!  ;-)
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« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2009, 02:49:57 PM »

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Jaime
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« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2009, 04:10:42 PM »

A couple of dozen RINOs in the whole bunch getting defeated would all but purge the GOP of the Dem-lites. Let's do that rather than starting from square one. Conservatives still need right leaning independents and Dems to even remotely have any chance of battling the Dems,. Which is the whole point in my mind. Feeling good about my vote is one thing, playing to win IS what politics is about......or we lose. Sitting home smuggling gloating that we voted our principals is useless if those that would destroy our principals faster and more completely gain or maintain power.
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Proverbs 3: 5-6  Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight.

                                          
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« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2009, 11:12:37 PM »

I caucused for Ron Paul. I was the only person to do so in my precinct here in Iowa. He doesn't fit the fox news mold of conservatism though. He was repeatedly mocked by them even to his face during the presidential debates. Some day people will wake up and see that economic liberalism (free trade and capitalism) does not mesh well with social conservatism. You can't say that the government should stay out of our lives and then demand that the government regulate things like sexuality meanwhile racking up huge debts in wars that don't benefit us and only make us weaker and less secure.
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« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2009, 11:12:37 PM »

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Jaime
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« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2009, 07:24:06 AM »

Logismo, it seems strange to me that a Ron Paul supporter could be such an ardent defender of President Obama, Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and Leader Harry Reid. I don't see Ron Paul being anywhere near approving the bailouts, public option healthcare, cap and trade, etc etc.
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Proverbs 3: 5-6  Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight.

                                          
CLICK HERE ---->My New Blog
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« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2009, 02:20:17 PM »

I defend of the idea that people should have a good reason for what they believe.

I've never ever even mentioned or even indirectly referred to Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Our democracy requires that both sides be good and have quality well-reasoned policies and if one side is weaker it makes both sides weak and it makes the entire process weaker. For example, putting Sarah Palin on a ticket for VP was just downright absurd and a mockery of the system.  I mean, I want two good quality choices--I want the best that America has to offer. Right now if I were to measure which side is not pulling its weight intellectually it is the Republicans. They rally around a few ideologues who base everything on a twisted black-and-white concept of socialism vs capitalism that has no bearing on reality. There are a lot of really GOOD challenging questions that a proper opposition party needs to be asking right now to keep the democrats in check but the Republicans are in a lala land of fear-mongering irrational behavior in an attempt to capture the interest and activism of some of Americas most ignorant populations (keeping in mind that both sides work to activate their own ignorant and uneducated populations but the Republicans do a much better job of unifing theirs under a few overly-simplified axioms). Policy-wise though my preference is toward small government Libertarianism. But pragmatically speaking I would rather have a reasonable big-governmenmt policy over a small-government policy rooted in ignorance and pseudoreasoning.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2009, 02:26:52 PM by Logismos » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2009, 02:45:25 PM »

 I do not know much about RP, what I did see he seemed strange in the same way Ross P. was, or is (LOL). I know lots of college kids, seemed to like him ( I live in a college town), and like to never gave up putting up RP signs, even when it was over (LOL). Hey wish he would have won, because, we picked the short stick, and the worst possible leader of the free world. Help us Jesus.
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Jaime
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« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2009, 02:48:18 PM »

My impression of your posts, Logismos is that you side primarily with the Democrat arguments. Which to me are inherently opposed to any position Ron Paul ever had. Ron Paul IS the anti-Democrat of the modern era.

Yes there are a lot of things slung around from the Republican side that I wish wasn't. but stupidity is far from being only a right wing malady. As to socialism, we are heading there fast and I am not happy about it.

Also, I disagree that the Republicans do a better job of unifying their ignorant and uninformed populations. Democrats have perfected that for generations. Members of my own family are in that category. They would vote Democrat no matter what, but when we are talking issues, they agree totally with me. They vote the way they do because their grand daddy told them never to vote for a Republican. If they would open their minds, they would realize the Democrat party is not the Democrat party of their grand daddy. their grand daddy would be turning over in his grave over some of the stuff the Democrat party is pushing now.

As to Hispanic immigrants in my part of the world, they are primarily indoctrinated to vote Democrat and I never understood why. Most are Catholic and abhor abortion even more so than Anglo Americans. There is a mechanism of indoctrination of these folks that is mind blowing in effeciency.

A little aside on the healthcare debate, and to tie in to you last statement: To me, and millions like me in both parties, what we have now is big governnment policies rooted in ignorance and pseudoreasoning, not the opposite.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2009, 03:01:59 PM by Jaime » Logged

Proverbs 3: 5-6  Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight.

                                          
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« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2009, 02:48:18 PM »

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« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2009, 03:17:21 PM »

My impression of your posts, Logismos is that you side primarily with the Democrat arguments. Which to me are inherently opposed to any position Ron Paul ever had.

I caucused for Ron Paul but like the Democratic Party I don't believe everything he has to say. He is not fully Libertarian.

Quote
As to socialism, we are heading there fast and I am not happy about it.
We have been part "socialist" since WWI and even moreso since WWII. Socialism is a meaningless word in politics today and the fact that "you think we're headed there" is part of the problem with the Republican side. You're willing to throw around meaningless words for their emotional shock value that in reality contribute nothing to any reasonable discussion.

Quote
Also, I disagree that the Republicans do a better job of unifying their ignorant and uninformed populations. Democrats have perfected that for generations. Members of my own family are in that category. They would vote Democrat no matter what, but when we are talking issues, they agree totally with me. They vote the way they do because their grand daddy told them never to vote for a Republican.
Well family traditions has little to do a party being able to organize the ignorant masses. The republicans have engineered a few catch phrases that embody their view-point (even though they don't follow them) and they have a small group of rowdy irrational loud-mouths that get all sorts of rednecks and other generally uninformed folks all excited over a bunch of non-substantial issues. Its hard to be an honest thinking man with balanced rational views in the Rush-Beck-Hannity Party.
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Jaime
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« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2009, 04:37:42 PM »

I suspect you don't agree at all with Ron Paul, other than his war on terror stance. I agree with everything he stands for EXCEPT his war on terror stance. We can't stand at our borders and repel this enemy. We must aggressively and pre-emptively go after them as Bush did and Obama has continued in Afghanistan and Pakistan. We have no choice. Ron Paul's stance woulda been a good one 80  to 100 years ago, but not today. We can't re-pack Pandora's box and go back to before the British drew the borders of the Middle East.

Why do you consider socialism a meaningless word? Substitute "Statism" if you like. Defined as the principle or policy of concentrating extensive economic, political, and related controls in the state at the cost of individual liberty or the notion that the state can and should do everything for us, which IS where we are heading.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2009, 04:45:56 PM by Jaime » Logged

Proverbs 3: 5-6  Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight.

                                          
CLICK HERE ---->My New Blog
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« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2009, 10:32:47 AM »

Quote
Defined as the principle or policy of concentrating extensive economic, political, and related controls in the state at the cost of individual liberty
Such a system has existed in the US for the last 100 years--even more so since the 1940s. For example, applying that principle to health insurance industry would not be anything radically new or different.

Quote
I suspect you don't agree at all with Ron Paul
I agree with him that in an ideal world the Federal government should focus mainly on protecting the US from foreign threats, protecting our natural God-given rights, and facilitating smooth interstate and foreign trade/relations. Meanwhile states should have preeminent control over their own local affairs. Most of the departments and agencies that exist are superfluous and run programs better administered by local state governments.  I agree with what he says about large unwieldy bureaucracies that are so bloated that they often are unable to efficiently perform the basic tasks they are charged with. But as you said you can't re-pack Pandora's box and for the last 70-90 years we have had a big government and in many ways our society has been far more stable and benefitted as a result while in other ways it has produced new absurdities and inefficiencies. Anyway, I am a pragmatist and I want whatever works regardless of what I ideologically think would be ideal in a perfect world. Having a system that constantly swings back and forth between two ideological sets of rules is itself a source of economic instability because economic players need to know what the rules are in order to take long-term risks.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 10:39:38 AM by Logismos » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2009, 10:32:47 AM »

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« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2009, 10:39:36 AM »

I don't regret not having voted for Paul.  Sometimes he is a man of brilliance and reason, and other times he crosses that fine line into absolute lunacy.

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« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2009, 10:41:06 AM »

Quote
Defined as the principle or policy of concentrating extensive economic, political, and related controls in the state at the cost of individual liberty
Such a system has existed in the US for the last 100 years--even more so since the 1940s. For example, applying that principle to health insurance industry would not be anything radically new or different.

Quote
I suspect you don't agree at all with Ron Paul
I agree with him that in an ideal world the Federal government should focus mainly on protecting the US from foreign threats, protecting our natural God-given rights, and facilitating smooth interstate and foreign trade/relations. Meanwhile states should have preeminent control over their own local affairs. Most of the departments and agencies that exist are superfluous and run programs better administered by local state governments.  I agree with what he says about large unwieldy bureaucracies that are so bloated that they often are unable to efficiently perform the basic tasks they are charged with. But as you said you can't re-pack Pandora's box and for the last 70-90 years we have had a big government and in many ways our society has been far more stable and benefitted as a result while in other ways it has produced new absurdities and inefficiencies. Anyway, I am a pragmatist and I want whatever works regardless of what I ideologically think would be ideal in a perfect world. Having a system that constantly swings back and forth between two ideological sets of rules is itself a source of economic instability because economic players need to know what the rules are in order to take long-term risks.

That the system has existed is hardly a compelling endorsement.
Im also a pragmatist....and you and I differ mightily...imagine that.
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