GCM Home | Bible Search | Rules | Donate | Bookstore | RSS | Facebook | Twitter

Author Topic: Santorum Slams Small Government! His Own Words! Watch  (Read 3844 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tennman

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1216
  • Manna: 94
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Santorum Slams Small Government! His Own Words! Watch
« on: February 08, 2012, 06:44:06 PM »
Though I wasn't a fan of Rick Santorum, I didn't expect him to say this. He wants big government and slams the idea of smaller government, lower taxes, even says he wants government in the bedroom. So bizarre and even stupid for him to say.


For those of you who don't watch this video, I'll quote him: "One of the criticisms I make is to what I refer to as more of a Libertarianish right. They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do, government should keep our taxes down and keep our regulations low, that we shouldn't get involved in the bedroom, we shouldn't get involved in the cultural issues. That is not how traditional conservatives view the world."

And this guy is supposed to be a conservative?! No way, Rick, you'd better keep your sorry butt out of my bedroom. And then there's what he said about the Tea Party (until they became popular)


 ::eek::

Christian Forums and Message Board

Santorum Slams Small Government! His Own Words! Watch
« on: February 08, 2012, 06:44:06 PM »

Offline Johnb

  • Global Moderator
  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10334
  • Manna: 151
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum Slams Small Government! His Own Words! Watch
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2012, 07:38:34 PM »
Not being a libertarian is why I still support him!

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Santorum Slams Small Government! His Own Words! Watch
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2012, 07:38:34 PM »

Offline LightHammer

  • Defender of the Faith
  • Global Moderator
  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8424
  • Manna: 273
  • Gender: Male
  • I.C.T.H.Y.S.
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum Slams Small Government! His Own Words! Watch
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2012, 08:24:55 PM »
I thought Federalist no. 10 slammed the insufficiency of small government 200 years ago give or take? Madison and several Framers were opposed to small government weren't they? Something about the states having too much power which lead to chaos in every aspect of our infrastructure.

Offline tennman

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1216
  • Manna: 94
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum Slams Small Government! His Own Words! Watch
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2012, 08:47:10 PM »
LOL. And I've seen both of you slam big government Obama and talk about how taxes are too high, too many regulations, etc. But now Santorum wants big government and you're on board? Talk about sheep. Just save yourself the trouble and let Obama get elected again if that's what you want.

I guess Reagan was a libertarian then too what with his lower taxes, less regulations, more freedom...all that "libertarian" stuff. And here I was thinking that was conservative. But go ahead, toe the "new" party line.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Santorum Slams Small Government! His Own Words! Watch
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2012, 08:47:10 PM »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline TonkaTim

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1141
  • Manna: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum Slams Small Government! His Own Words! Watch
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2012, 12:15:26 AM »
LOL. And I've seen both of you slam big government Obama and talk about how taxes are too high, too many regulations, etc. But now Santorum wants big government and you're on board? Talk about sheep. Just save yourself the trouble and let Obama get elected again if that's what you want.

I guess Reagan was a libertarian then too what with his lower taxes, less regulations, more freedom...all that "libertarian" stuff. And here I was thinking that was conservative. But go ahead, toe the "new" party line.


I made this thread to help define traditional conservatism.
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/politics/classical-liberal-libertarian-conservative/

There is now a lot of confusion over what is a "conservative" now. The main source of confusion stems with the infusion of neocon ideology into the Republican party. http://conservapedia.com/Neocon
"A neoconservative (also spelled "neo-conservative"; colloquially, neocon) in American politics is someone presented as a conservative but who actually favors big government, interventionalism, and a hostility to religion in politics and government. The word means "newly conservative," and thus formerly liberal. Many neocons had been liberals in their youth and admired President Franklin D. Roosevelt. In 2010 the highest priority of the neoconservatives was to increase military action by the United States in the Middle East and Afghanistan, and to expand it to an American confrontation against Iran; in 2011 their goals include supporting a military attack on Libya, continuing the Afghanistan War indefinitely, and even suggesting military action against Syria.

Neoconservatives tend to oppose the appointment of social conservatives to high governmental positions, such as nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court. Neoconservatives support candidates who are liberal on social issues instead.

Neoconservatives favor expensive foreign interventionalism with massive federal spending, often to replace a dictator with a new system of government that may be worse. Sometimes this is expressed as a desire to install a democracy in a culture that may be incompatible with it. The neoconservative position was discredited in the failure of democracy in the Iranian elections of 2009.

The neoconservative movement emerged in the mid 1970s, played a limited role in the Ronald Reagan Administration, and then had a voice in the Defense Department under the George W. Bush Administration after 9/11. Candidates favored by neoconservatives for president in 2012 include Newt Gingrich, Mike Huckabee, Mike Pence and, to a lesser extent because she pulls support away from those candidates, Sarah Palin.

Some prominent spokesmen include Bill Kristol, Paul Wolfowitz, Lewis Libby, Norman Podhoretz, Daniel Pipes, Charles Krauthammer, Richard Perle, Robert Kagan, Christopher Hitchens, Stephen Schwartz, Elliott Abrams, Ben Wattenberg and Carl Gershman.

In contrast to traditional conservatives, neoconservatives favor globalism, downplay religious issues and differences, are unlikely to actively oppose abortion and homosexuality. Neocons disagree with conservatives on issues such as classroom prayer, the separation of powers, cultural unity, and immigration. Neocons favor a strong active state in world affairs. Neocons oppose affirmative action with greater emphasis and priority than other conservatives do.

On foreign policy, neoconservatives believe that democracy can and should be installed by the United States around the world, even in Muslim countries such as Iraq, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.

Neoconservatives were prominent in the George W. Bush administration by supporting a strong foreign policy, and especially favored the Iraq War and its efforts to spread democracy worldwide."

Santorum is a semi-neocon & thus not a conservative. Which is why I made this post. http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/politics/is-santorum-really-a-conservative/ Which discusses his vote for the World Trade Organization which is ultimate big government - world government. So Santorum's progressive authoritarian view is no suprise.

The only suprise is how many actually think they are "conservative" when they are really neocon liberals & do not even realize that neocon roots start with the Trotskyist in the 1930's.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Santorum Slams Small Government! His Own Words! Watch
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2012, 12:15:26 AM »



Offline Johnb

  • Global Moderator
  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10334
  • Manna: 151
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum Slams Small Government! His Own Words! Watch
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2012, 07:01:50 AM »
That was a slam on the LP not smaller government.  The LP platform is anarchy and he was right that is not traditional conservative values.  We are for smaller government and lower taxes not the anything goes LP brand.
This was as bad as the dems taking someones words out of context.  Opposition to the LP is not opposition to conservative values.

Offline OldDad

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6505
  • Manna: 253
  • Gender: Male
  • Ol' Skool
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum Slams Small Government! His Own Words! Watch
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2012, 07:12:02 AM »

Talk about sheep. Just save yourself the trouble and let Obama get elected again if that's what you want.


This is so hilarious coming from a Paulinista...


Offline tennman

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1216
  • Manna: 94
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum Slams Small Government! His Own Words! Watch
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2012, 09:24:41 AM »
That was a slam on the LP not smaller government.  The LP platform is anarchy and he was right that is not traditional conservative values.  We are for smaller government and lower taxes not the anything goes LP brand.
This was as bad as the dems taking someones words out of context.  Opposition to the LP is not opposition to conservative values.

And yet Santorum mocked people who want low taxes and less regulations SPECIFICALLY. He said it. Those were the actual things he chose to  take issue with. This is absolutely not taking him out of context! I'm quoting him. Are you in denial or something? Don't play games. The man said what he said.

Offline LightHammer

  • Defender of the Faith
  • Global Moderator
  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8424
  • Manna: 273
  • Gender: Male
  • I.C.T.H.Y.S.
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum Slams Small Government! His Own Words! Watch
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2012, 11:07:39 AM »
LOL. And I've seen both of you slam big government Obama and talk about how taxes are too high, too many regulations, etc. But now Santorum wants big government and you're on board? Talk about sheep. Just save yourself the trouble and let Obama get elected again if that's what you want.

I guess Reagan was a libertarian then too what with his lower taxes, less regulations, more freedom...all that "libertarian" stuff. And here I was thinking that was conservative. But go ahead, toe the "new" party line.

Was that inclusive to me?

I don't think it should have been. I want making a claim. I was asking a serious question. I don't know enough about politics to have a big boy discussion about it but I have been doing a little reading of the Framers.

I thought a lot of them were opposed to smaller government due to the chaos it created during the sovereignty of the Articles of Confederation? The way I read it. The states had pretty much all the power with the national government being basically insignificant. This lead to major failures in economy and other areas.

I can understand the desire for less taxes  If this is the case why are you all trying to resurrect smaller national government? History proves that leads to chaos.

Or is it when you say "smaller government" you mean government in general state and federal?

Offline tennman

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1216
  • Manna: 94
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum Slams Small Government! His Own Words! Watch
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2012, 11:19:08 AM »
Lighthammer,

No, the Framers were adament about states rights and all governments being small enough the people ruled them rather than the other way around. The point of this thread is that people who call themselves conservative here and nationally have said they wanted smaller government, less taxes and less government regulation (and made that a major complaint against Obama). But now that Santorum says he wants those things some of them seem perfectly okay with it. As though they'll take Obama with an "R" beside his name. It's pretty stunning actually. 

Offline LightHammer

  • Defender of the Faith
  • Global Moderator
  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8424
  • Manna: 273
  • Gender: Male
  • I.C.T.H.Y.S.
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum Slams Small Government! His Own Words! Watch
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2012, 11:28:00 AM »
Lighthammer,

No, the Framers were adament about states rights and all governments being small enough the people ruled them rather than the other way around. The point of this thread is that people who call themselves conservative here and nationally have said they wanted smaller government, less taxes and less government regulation (and made that a major complaint against Obama). But now that Santorum says he wants those things some of them seem perfectly okay with it. As though they'll take Obama with an "R" beside his name. It's pretty stunning actually. 

I don't have a dog in this fight Big Brother and I don't want my inquiry to derail your thread.

I'm going to fall out and observe.

Offline TonkaTim

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1141
  • Manna: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum Slams Small Government! His Own Words! Watch
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2012, 12:59:45 PM »
That was a slam on the LP not smaller government.  The LP platform is anarchy and he was right that is not traditional conservative values.  We are for smaller government and lower taxes not the anything goes LP brand.
This was as bad as the dems taking someones words out of context.  Opposition to the LP is not opposition to conservative values.


Small L libertarian & alot of the stuff in the current Libertarian part platform are at odds. So you are correct in saying "Opposition to the LP is not opposition to conservative values".

What's happened to the Libertarian in the classical liberal sense is the same thing that has happened to Conservative in the classical liberal sense.

Just as the Republican party has been infiltrated by the neocons who have corrupted the message of true conservatism (classical liberal) the Libertarian party has been infiltrated by the atheist ideals of the Objectionist who have corrupted the message of true libertarian (classical liberal).

Just as social liberal is an oxymoron because you can not have liberty with social statist authoritarian control, also neo(new) conservative is an oxymoron because it can not be new if it is holding on the the traditions of the founders. Neocon ideology leads to authoritarian statist control & is not in the traditions of the Founders. Objectionist libertarian is an oxymoron because it rejects God as the author of Liberty & declares self the determiner of existence & leads to authoritarian statist control . All 3 ideologies have one thing in common, they think man knows better than God & do not submit to God's natural law & it becomes exposed in their policies - "they shall be known by their fruit"

All true conservatives, libertarians, classical liberals recognize one truth first - God, & attempt to follow God's natural law. We see this this concept enshrined in our Declaration of Independence by the recognition of the Creator & in our Constitution by the recognition of the Blessor. Since the essays of John Locke were so influential on the founding generation I'd suggest reading this.

From this I see where Tennman is coming from in regards to the sanctity of the marriage bed. The state has no authority over the sanctity of the marriage bed and thus must stay the heck out of it. It's part of our God-given right to privacy because the intimacy between & husband & wife is a Blessing from God. It is a sacred trust, completely private & must be protected. Why Santorum goes way off the reservation on this issue. While we as a society(the People) has the right to define our morals on a local & state level the Federal does not have the right to define for us. The limits of the Federal are clearly defined in the enumerated powers & reconfirmed & enshrined in our Bill of Rights. One being our right to privacy the other being the powers reserved to the People & the States. No one has the right to violate the sanctity of the marriage bed save God Himself.

Offline Captain Shays

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
  • Manna: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum Slams Small Government! His Own Words! Watch
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2012, 07:38:40 AM »
Jesus would have been a libertarian if He was around today. Wasn't it God Himself who gave us freedom of choice? Just like charity should be a personal choice and has been distorted by socialists to make it seem that charity should be administered by the government, individual liberty is bening subverted by so called conservatives who say that our choices should also be administered by the government. They say that marijuana is evil and should be kept illegal ye thty eignore that it was their God who actually made marijuana and all the other plants in the Garden of Eden. There was only one plant that we were not allowed to touch or eat of it's fruit and I don't think it was marijuana. So to advocate one or more plants that God made and said in Genesis "it is good and for your use" is to say that God made a mistake. That He wasn't wise because He didn't know what we would do might be evil. Yet we also ignore Jesus too when He said "it's not what goes into a man that defiles him but what comes out". We also ignore Paul when he said "happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he does".

I wonder what some people think "libertarian" really means?

Offline OldDad

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6505
  • Manna: 253
  • Gender: Male
  • Ol' Skool
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum Slams Small Government! His Own Words! Watch
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2012, 07:44:13 AM »
Jesus was not, is not, and would not be politically affiliated. At first I thought the idea was just silly - but then I noted your love for weed, and it all became clear...

Surely there's a bag of Doritos with your name on it somewhere.

Offline tennman

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1216
  • Manna: 94
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Santorum Slams Small Government! His Own Words! Watch
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2012, 09:23:50 AM »
Okay, Olddad, you can bash libertarians if you like, but if you're a conservative as you claim to be, how could you possibly vote for Santorum with such an extreme record of supporting unions (who I know you don't like)? And here's a list that's not even complete:

  • Voting to RAISE the debt ceiling five times;
  • Voting with Ted Kennedy on multiple occasions to support the Big Labor Unions agenda;
  • Supporting raising taxes on oil companies, which directly costs Americans more money out of their pockets at the gas pump;
  • Urging more federal involvement in housing with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac;
  • Voting to create a brand new, unfunded entitlement, Medicare Part D, the largest expansion of entitlement spending since President Lyndon Johnson - creating $16 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities;
  • Endorsing liberal Big Government RINOs like Arlen Specter over conservatives. Of course, Specter became a Democrat and worked hand-in-glove with President Obama to pass his radical agenda;
  • Voting for Sarbanes-Oxley, which imposed dramatic new job-killing accounting regulations on businesses;
  • Voting for gun control;
  • Voting to give Social Security benefits to illegal aliens, while voting against an additional 1,000 border patrol agents;
  • Voting to send hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars to Planned Parenthood - the nation's largest provider of abortion – and to hand out hundreds of billions of dollars in foreign aid to enemies of Israel.
  • He OPPOSED the right to work act and instead voted to give unions more control and hurt non-unionized workers

Rick Santorum is NOT a conservative. With the exception of talking like a social conservative, he's a bigger liberal than Romney. He might as well be Barack Santorum!

« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 09:39:14 AM by tennman »