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Offline Johnb

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Something stinks!
« on: February 12, 2012, 01:40:26 PM »
Iowa was bad enough now we have Maine.  This crap is destroying any trust in the process.  I don't like caucus and I don't like beauty votes like we had in MO.  The GOP needs to insist that each state have a primary vote and those votes  determine the nominee.  The only reason to not do that is to control the process because the people can not be trusted.  There is so much in our system that needs to change.  If it does not and soon this country will be torn apart.

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Something stinks!
« on: February 12, 2012, 01:40:26 PM »

Offline Jett22

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Re: Something stinks!
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2012, 06:49:49 PM »
Don't forget Nevada.  A lot of people crying fraud there as well.  Throwing out votes all together.  Is it really that hard to hold an election?

Of course not.  Those who have run the GOP for a long time want to decide the nominee without interference of the rank and file.  But come national election time they will need their support. 

I think they are relying on the "not obama" motivation to win the election for them. 

It holds some merit, but I don't think it will be enough.

Sorry, I don't think I own a close pin large enough to vote for Mitt, Rick or Newt.

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Re: Something stinks!
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2012, 06:49:49 PM »

Offline Johnb

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Re: Something stinks!
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2012, 06:54:57 PM »
I am also tired of the Ron Paul is our savior and only hope crap. He is a 30 year politician with strong and weak points like the rest. That is like a church saying we get the right preacher and every thing will be great. No! It really doesn't matter who is there if we the people have the courage to stand up for what we really want. Also we must be willing to sacrifice. We can not have 42% of the nation on the take and 50% paying taxes and keep going into debt. We need a new congress that will listen and do the will of the people and follow the constitution then it will not matter what clown is in 1600 Pennsylvania avenue.john79t

Offline Jett22

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Re: Something stinks!
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2012, 07:56:54 PM »
It's funny the only time I hear anyone saying "Ron Paul is our savior" is from people who oppose him and his supporters.  Maybe they just dislike the passion that his supporters display.

When I consider the candidates, he reflects my values and stances on the issues.  And it's not even close.  

That's why I support him.  

I don't think anyone believes he can fix every single problem in America or work miracles.  He is just the best candidate given the choices.  And it's not even close.

I have voted for the Republican candidate for every race I have ever voted on since I could legally vote in 1990, and this is the FIRST time I have ever had a political sign in my front yard for any contest.  Me and my wife are both typically introverted, but we have been talking with neighbors.  We plan on attending the precinct convention and organizing with others to become delegates to the county convention.

No other race or candidate has ever motivated me past showing up to vote.

Ron's vision of liberty has given me courage to stand up and fight for change and the will to sacrifice my time and money to support him.

So I guess I don't get your point at all on the church analogy (unless you think we should write in Christ).

Yes! We need a congress that will listen to the people and follow the constitution, I couldn't agree more, but why wouldn't you want the same thing from the POTUS?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 09:11:23 PM by Jett22 »

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Re: Something stinks!
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2012, 07:56:54 PM »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Something stinks!
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2012, 09:22:49 PM »
It all boils down to who we are going to vote for, the GOP nominee or Obama directly or indirectly by not voting or by voting for some third party candidate. I will definitely without hesitation vote AGAINST Obama by voting FOR the GOP nominee whether it's Ron Paul or not. I hope the Ron Paul supporters will have the sense to vote for the GOP nominee. If not we will see just how radical Mr Obama will be when he isn't running for re-election in his second term. And that there is NO comparison to the liberalness of the current President and all the remaining GOP candidates. If your ideal choice is not nominated, I pray that good sense to prevent a second Obama term will prevail.

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Re: Something stinks!
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2012, 09:22:49 PM »



Offline Johnb

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Re: Something stinks!
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2012, 05:49:38 AM »
The reason is the misplaced passion.  There is a difference in having passion for one candidate and saying I will not vote for the nominee if it is so and so.  The difference is I will vote for the GOP nominee if it is Ron Paul.  However, that does not stop me for being irritated at folks that treat him like the only hope (savior) our country has.  No one person is that important.  The passion should be for getting rid of the corrupt system we now have and the corrupt congress on both sides.  That Is why votes not being counted upset me.  If it is a liberal democrat vote, a conservative tea party vote a RINO, a LP, independent or whatever that vote should be counted.  I don't know if Ron Paul would have won Maine if all the votes would have been counted but they should have been counted. Until folks wake up and demand the process be honest nothing will change. 

Now to the church analogy
Often folks want a preacher to come in and fix all the problems of a church.  You get the right preacher with the right ideas and every thing will be OK.  No it takes everyone doing their part. Most RP supporters seem to have that same attitude.  We are in this mess because we have trusted politicians to long.  We need to make folks being elected understand that it is time for the game to be over.  We want term limits, a balanced budget, honest government dealings.  That is our demands.  I don't care which candidate it is our passion should be on fixing a broken system not on one guy.  I understand your passion in believing your guy is the best but not the attitude that if my guy does not win I will throw in the towel.     

Offline Jett22

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Re: Something stinks!
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2012, 08:38:40 AM »

The passion IS for getting rid of the corrupt system in congress and in the White House.  And it IS the Ron Paul supporters who are awake and demanding the process be honest.

So again, How is the passion misplaced? 

You and Jaime both make a HUGE assumption that the GOP nominee will be any different than Obama.  Sure he will be different, but not less corrupt.

You say no one person is that important.  But then if Obama is elected for a second term we are in "big" trouble.  Which is it?

You say support your nominee and if they are not the candidate then still support the GOP, when it's the GOP leadership that is throwing out votes left and right and trying to manipulate the primaries.

How in the world do they think they can disillusion voters by this fraud and expect their support in a few months?

It's not going to happen.  Most likely Ron Paul will get 10% of the vote as a write-in even if he doesn't run as a third party.  And Obama will win a 2nd term.

Why?  GOP corruption.

The system is broke and blindly supporting any GOP nominee is not going to fix it.
 
To your church analogy, it fits the blind GOP supporter MUCH more than the RP supporter.  I blindly kept supporting the GOP, whomever they nominated, as many others have done.  The result is this mess.
 
You are both Ron Paul supporters, because the demands you describe is EXACTLY what he is trying to do.

The difference is when told he is unelectable you chose to believe it.

What you call throwing in the towel we call not compromising our Liberty.

I too wish we had more unity on our side of the aisle, but I refuse to keep going in the wrong direction.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Something stinks!
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2012, 11:29:15 AM »
Our mess today was the tantrum of 2006, when Harry Reid and Pelosi were elected with the Democrat control. Sure Republicans screwed up and went off the reservation. That can be corrected. But it can't by electing Democrats. The problem I see is half the country is solidly Democrat and the rest of the country is on a spectrum somewhere Ron Paul to Mitt Romney. The non-Dems MUST coalesce into a solid coalition or the Dems will have permanent control of the country. I realize there are many "conservatives" more conservative than me and many that are less "conservative" than me. Pragmatism to defeat the Dems must prevail. There ain't enough Jetts and Tennman etc to elect someone they will abide. I wish it were otherwise, but we must come together as non-Dems or be permanently relegated to vast minority status against the Dems.

If we can't get everybody on board to go in the right direction, we MUST at least get together to defeat the one going in the most wrong direction. That is job 1. A divided conservative electorate is exactly what will re-elect Barack Obama. In some elections the Dem choice might not be bad enough to take that position. I think Obama IS in this case, and will be much worse during the second term since he will not have to worry about re-election. If I didn't know anything else about this election, that fact would be more than enough for me to saddle up and cast a pure vote against Obama.

Also, if we have STRONG majorities in the Senate and the House unlike what Bush was saddled with, I think Republicans can easily redeem themselves. We must have a 60 plus majority in the Senate to keep the radical minority from derailing everything. Simply controlling both houses is far from adequate.

If the Ron Paul supporters won't support whoever the GOP nominates, I think that will be a huge tragedy. The primaries are to bring forth a nominee. I supported Duncan Hunter last time around and he didn't do squat in the primaries. I did however cast a non-Obama vote for McCain rather than stay home and effectively vote for Obama. We WILL see the real Obama in the 2nd term, and it won't resemble to any degree any Republican candidate. Mark my words.

A vote can and usually is a vote both for and against to some extent. Rarely is it only a "for" proposition.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 11:37:43 AM by Jaime »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Something stinks!
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2012, 11:42:03 AM »
Also, the tragedy in our process is that EVERYONE hates negative political ads, but no one can deny that they work because most of the electorate is well............stupid.

Offline DaveW

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Re: Something stinks!
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2012, 07:23:25 AM »
The fact is that the republican and democratic political parties are private organizations who can choose their candidates any way they want to.

They could have a game of musical chairs with the last man sitting being the candidate.

The primary system is their attempt to appear to be public and civil. But it ends up costing the tax payers a lot of $$ since they use the public polling places and electoral commissions.

Offline Captain Shays

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Re: Something stinks!
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2012, 08:32:23 AM »
Romney, Santorum, Gingrich AND Obama ALL want to keep policing the world. They ALL would engage in wars without a declaration of war by Congress. They ALL would send us into another UN war like Iraq, Korea, Vietnam. They ALL ignore the Christain Just War Principles. They ALL ignore the advice of our foundinhg fathers relative to foreign affairs.
This isn't about "Ron Paul is our savior" but ONLY Ron Paul wouldn't go to war without Congressional approval and a formal declaration of war as per Article I, section 8, clause 11 of the Constitution of the United States.
ONLY Ron Paul references, respects and adhers to the Christian Just War Principles and the advice of our founding fathers relative to foreign affairs.


Romney, Santorum, Gingrich AND Obama will allow the Federal Reserve to continue to monopolize our currency, drive us and our children into MASSIVE amohnts of debt (servitude). While the Fed controls our money, we wil operate on a fractional reserve system and we will NEVER EVER be able to get out of debt no matter what they say or do.

No "savior" but ONLY Ron Paul will work to audit the Fed and eventually abolish them once and for all. No private corporation should EVER be in control of the money supply of our entire country!!

Romney, Santorum, Gingrich AND Obama ALL engage in the act of handing out corporate welfare, whether they call it a grant, a tax break (for some but not all) or a subsidy. It's redistribution of wealth from everyone who works to Wall St. It subverts the free market, prevents us from becoming energy independent, and provides for the extreme concentration of both financial wealth and politicial power into the same few hands.

Not talking about an end all savior but ONLY Ron Paul recognizes that there is NO PROVISION on the Constitution for the re-distribution of wealth from one person to another or from one group to another.

Romney, Santorum, Gingrich AND Obama ALL fight to get enough SC justices appointed so that Roe V Wade can "some day" be changed or over turned which (sorry to tell you) will NEVER happpen. EVER.

ONLY Ron Paul's Sancitity of Life Bill provided the alernative to ending abortion on demand with a simple majority vote. Santorum was a Senator when the bill came up and he rejected it.

Romney, Santorum, Gingrich AND Obama ALL want to keep the IRS in place along with the income tax. They only differ by degree but not in philosophy or practice. One says we should ta\x at this rate. The other says we should tax at that rate. But NONE want to repeal the 16th Amendment and abolish the IRS.

Ron Paul on the other hand is the ONLY ONE who will.

On those issues (and more) ALL of the Republican candidates AND Obama agree with each other and they ALL disagree with Ron Paul and me. So who should I vote for that I disagree with on those issues that are VERY important to me?

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Something stinks!
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2012, 02:06:42 PM »
The fact is that the republican and democratic political parties are private organizations who can choose their candidates any way they want to.

They could have a game of musical chairs with the last man sitting being the candidate.

The primary system is their attempt to appear to be public and civil. But it ends up costing the tax payers a lot of $$ since they use the public polling places and electoral commissions.

That's why I believe not one dime of taxpayer money should be spent on any primary and why I believe at election time nothing should be on the ballot except the name of the office.  All votes must be write-in votes.