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Author Topic: State-run lotteries  (Read 1878 times)
Bocephus
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« on: November 19, 2002, 11:47:43 AM »

I oppose state lotteries.  There is not as much money paid out to the schools as they promise and the big issue is that it makes it so I have to wait in line longer at the gas station.
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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2002, 10:33:40 AM »

I've heard lotteries called the "stupidity tax".
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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2002, 10:33:40 AM »

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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2002, 11:37:41 AM »

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (janine @ Nov. 20 2002,10:35)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Spurly -

I wonder, does that SBC stand mean that a faithful member congregation would refuse to let a lottery-winning church member put a million dollars in the collection plate of a Sunday?[/quote]
That's a good question,

If the SBC church doesn't want the tithe from the lottery, I'm sure our church would take it!

Kevin
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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2002, 08:05:54 PM »

If your church won't take a tithe out of lottery money give it to me.  I will put it to very good use.
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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2002, 08:05:54 PM »

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spurly
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2003, 10:08:59 PM »

People who pontificate against the lottery usually don't quote any Biblical reference about gambling being ungodly.  They can't do that, becaue those references don't exist.

Instead, they make one or both of the following arguments:

1)  Some people will get addicted to the lottery and neglect their families.  They will spend their entire paycheck on lottery tickets while the pantry is empty and the bill collectors come calling.

2)  When a state accepts gambling, prostitution, burglaries, murders, drug use, and divorce all rise.

Both of these arguments don't hold water.  In the early and mid 1900's people used arguments like this against playing cards, playing pool, and going to the movies.  I.E., you can't play pool because people who play pool smoke and drink.  You can't play cards, because people play cards at the same place where people drink and dance.  Both of these arguments fall on the same grounds of being illogical.  Playing pool is not bad, and playing cards is not bad, but sometimes people with questionable morals enjoy those activities as well.  Maybe, instead of fighting against things like this, we should use our common enjoyment for pool, dancing, cards, and games of chance to build a bridge to people which can lead them to Christ.

Just some ramblings of a liberal conservative.

Kevin
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2003, 10:45:35 PM »

I think that the Oklahoma legislators will send the lottery to a vote of the people this year.  And I think that is sad.  We voted for our legislators to represent us and make decisions like this for us.  Shouldn't they have the backbone just to vote yes or no on a lottery and not go through the expense of a public vote?  We voted them into office to vote for us.  If we don't like how they vote, then we vote them out.  That's my idea anyway.

Kevin
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2003, 10:45:35 PM »

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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2003, 11:44:47 PM »

Excuse me, Spurly.  Did you just refer to the Oklahoma State Legislature and 'backbone' at the same time?
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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2003, 07:01:16 AM »

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (kmv @ Feb. 15 2003,11:32)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]There's also an economic argument against a state lottery, at  least for me.[/quote]
The most interesting statistic I have seen shows how the budgets, and need, for social assistance increased after lotteries entered a state.  The assumption, is that people who can't afford tickets buy too many tickets then can't feed their family.

I think Spurly mentioned building a bridge.  I saw a great example of that this week.  A local church applied for and received a grant (from an electric co-op) to assist people with their heating a cooling needs.  This church has received $15000 to assist people in their community.  No strings attached.  I may be simplistic, but I think that is a terrific outreach and it didn't cost the church a dime   :thumbup:
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janine
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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2003, 06:37:39 PM »

I wonder what rackets the Mafiosi don't get their fingers into?
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2002, 09:39:24 AM »

Rubel Shelly argued (pre-Tennessee general election) that:

"The truth is that a lottery in Tennessee will make it more likely that we will have a state income tax sooner rather than later. Here’s why ... "

Here's why NOT:

States with no tax on earned income and no lottery (3, likely 2 in '03):
Alaska
(-) Tennessee (lottery likely in '03)(income tax on div. & int.)
Wyoming

States with no tax on earned income but operate a lottery (5, likely 6 in '03):
Florida
New Hampshire (income tax on div. & int.)
South Dakota
(+) Tennessee (lottery likely in '03)(income tax on div. & int.)
Texas
Washington

States with no lottery but levy tax on earned income (9):
Alabama
Arkansas
Hawaii
Nevada
Mississippi
North Carolina
North Dakota
Oklahoma
Utah

There are plenty of reasons to argue against a lottery pre-enactment and for close supervision if created (in fact, if Tennessee creates a lottery, to protect the vulnerable, lottery opponents should aggressively make the argument that it should be run by them), but attempting to suggest that those states with lotteries are likely to then create state income taxes (as if taxes are on the same ethical level as lotteries) is just sloppy thinking. If simple correlation between state income taxes on earned income and state-run lotteries "proves" anything, the better argument is that creating an income tax on earned income makes a state lottery less, not more, likely. The underlying concern facing state legislatures is adequate funding for programs demanded by the electorate along with the reluctance by the electorate actually to want to pay for them, not some inchoate desire to corrupt them.

- Bob Brandon
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2002, 09:39:24 AM »

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spurly
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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2002, 12:27:43 PM »

I want to move to one of those states with no income tax!

The Southern Baptist Convention here in Oklahoma just came out taking a stand against the lottery.  (Our governor elect has a lottery as one of his goals).

I have to say that I do not march in lock step with other Christians against the lottery (probably not much of a surprise to those of you who have been reading my posts and building a profile of what I may be like).

Here's why.  There is no Biblical mandate against the lottery or other games of chance.  There is no Biblical command against poker, black jack, or other casino games.  

Like many other things, they are okay in moderation and not sinful.  The problem comes from the fact that as humans we take things to the excess and then it becomes sinful.  Even good things like exercise can become sinful when taken to the excess.  Take for instance the man or woman who spends 6 hours a day at the gym working out and running and neglects her family at home.  Do we make gyms and exercise illegal because some people who do it neglect their responsibilities?  Of course not.

If a state wants to run a lottery, so be it.  I don't see where it is an issue of faith.

Kevin
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He was despised and forsaken of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; like one from whom men hide their face; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.  Surely our griefs He Himself bore, and our sorrows He carried; yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.  But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed.
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« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2002, 10:35:30 AM »

Spurly -

I wonder, does that SBC stand mean that a faithful member congregation would refuse to let a lottery-winning church member put a million dollars in the collection plate of a Sunday?
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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2002, 09:59:36 PM »

Yeah... kinda like when a shady gambler-type fellow wanted to contribute to the building of a frontier church building out West.

The circuit preacher hushed the critics and said "Sure, son, we'll take it.  The Devil has had it long enough.  Time to see what the Lord can do with it."
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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2002, 09:59:36 PM »

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« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2002, 01:23:23 AM »

In case anyone is wondering, no I am not the winner of the Powerball jackpot.   :cry:   And though I live near him, I have never met the man who won.  A lady who used to go to church with us formerly managed the store where the ticket was bought, but that's the closest connection I can find.  I am currently online checking my geneology.  This is West Virginia; we have to be related somehow.   :pray:

btw, as far as I know the Church of God will accept the man's tithe.  Sorry, BH.   :doh:
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« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2002, 09:19:22 PM »

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (marc @ Dec. 27 2002,01:23)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]In case anyone is wondering, no I am not the winner of the Powerball jackpot.   :cry:   And though I live near him, I have never met the man who won.  A lady who used to go to church with us formerly managed the store where the ticket was bought, but that's the closest connection I can find.  I am currently online checking my geneology.  This is West Virginia; we have to be related somehow.   :pray:

btw, as far as I know the Church of God will accept the man's tithe.  Sorry, BH.   :doh:[/quote]
...but I was really planning on giving it to the  needy, marc!
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