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Author Topic: Who Is Responsible for the Suffering of the Palestinians?  (Read 549 times)

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Online DaveW

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Re: Who Is Responsible for the Suffering of the Palestinians?
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2014, 10:56:43 AM »
Quote from: DaveW
Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh
Why not give Manhattan back to the Indians?  (hint: the answers are the same)
Is there chapter and verse promising the Native Americans any land?
So, maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it appears to me that you are saying that the Palestinians suffer because they are trespassers in a place that God has granted to someone else.

Correct.

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Re: Who Is Responsible for the Suffering of the Palestinians?
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2014, 10:56:43 AM »

Online DaveW

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Re: Who Is Responsible for the Suffering of the Palestinians?
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2014, 10:58:30 AM »
The promises to Abraham are fulfilled in Christ. 

True.  The promise I am referring to was made to Joshua.

Joshua 1.1   Now it came about after the death of Moses the servant of the Lord, that the Lord spoke to Joshua the son of Nun, Moses’ servant, saying,
2 “Moses My servant is dead; now therefore arise, cross this Jordan, you and all this people, to the land which I am giving to them, to the sons of Israel.
3 Every place on which the sole of your foot treads, I have given it to you, just as I spoke to Moses.
4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon, even as far as the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and as far as the Great Sea toward the setting of the sun will be your territory.

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Re: Who Is Responsible for the Suffering of the Palestinians?
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2014, 10:58:30 AM »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Who Is Responsible for the Suffering of the Palestinians?
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2014, 11:41:56 AM »
Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh
So, maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it appears to me that you are saying that the Palestinians suffer because they are trespassers in a place that God has granted to someone else.
Correct.
I think you may be guilty of having a selective memory.

You have remembered the blessing, but seem to have forgotten the cursing.  Have you forgotten Mount Ebal?  The Israelites continuation in the land was dependent on their adherence to the covenant they swore to before entering the land, on the two mountains, Gerizim and Ebal.

Of course, as Moses prophesied, they did not uphold that covenant, and they reaped the curses, including removal from the land, more than once, before God ultimately divorced them completely.

Whatever claim Israel may have had on the land was long ago nullified.  God Himself saw to the destruction of Jerusalem, and the scattering of the people from the land.

It is one thing to claim that God has brought back a remnant.  It is entirely another to claim that the old contracts are still valid.  They are not.

Jarrod
I cannot do anything for God.  God can do anything through me.

Still waiting for God to show up?  Good news - He's already here.

Online DaveW

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Re: Who Is Responsible for the Suffering of the Palestinians?
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2014, 11:51:02 AM »
No - God did NOT "divorce them completely." 

The northern tribes - Yes. 
Judah - no.

There are many promises in Jeremiah and in Isaiah that EVERY JEW would be returned to the Land.  Do you think the current state of Israel has enough room for EVERY JEW alive in the world today?

And us gentile Christians who are grafted in may have to move there as well.

Jeremiah 16:16 
“Behold, I am going to send for many fishermen,” declares the Lord, “and they will fish for them; and afterwards I will send for many hunters, and they will hunt them from every mountain and every hill and from the clefts of the rocks.

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Re: Who Is Responsible for the Suffering of the Palestinians?
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2014, 11:51:02 AM »
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Offline FireSword

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Re: Who Is Responsible for the Suffering of the Palestinians?
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2014, 02:32:09 PM »
Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh
So, maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it appears to me that you are saying that the Palestinians suffer because they are trespassers in a place that God has granted to someone else.
Correct.
I think you may be guilty of having a selective memory.

You have remembered the blessing, but seem to have forgotten the cursing.  Have you forgotten Mount Ebal?  The Israelites continuation in the land was dependent on their adherence to the covenant they swore to before entering the land, on the two mountains, Gerizim and Ebal.

Of course, as Moses prophesied, they did not uphold that covenant, and they reaped the curses, including removal from the land, more than once, before God ultimately divorced them completely.

Whatever claim Israel may have had on the land was long ago nullified.  God Himself saw to the destruction of Jerusalem, and the scattering of the people from the land.

It is one thing to claim that God has brought back a remnant.  It is entirely another to claim that the old contracts are still valid.  They are not.

Jarrod

Israel owns it's land via war. If they wanted too they could have invaded Palestine and put a stop to the political battles via strength of force. But the Israelites are a peaceful people and gave Palestinians the right to exist, but as long as the leaders in Palestine are the corrupt regimes in power then Israel cannot have peace with it's neighbour. So the solution is to remove the regime that fires rockets on Israel, but they are allied to powerful groups.




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Re: Who Is Responsible for the Suffering of the Palestinians?
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2014, 02:32:09 PM »



Offline BondServant

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Re: Who Is Responsible for the Suffering of the Palestinians?
« Reply #20 on: Yesterday at 07:00:33 AM »
Here's a silly question:  why not just give the West Bank back to Jordan?
Why not give Manhattan back to the Indians?  (hint: the answers are the same)

Apples and oranges.

The two are not at all related.
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Offline Red Baker

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"And he shewed me a pure river of water, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."~Revelation 22:1

In the world to come~there WILL BE "pure pleasures~river/tree=all that is needed to sustain us FOREVER~which are twelve manner of fruits and yielded her fruits EVERY MONTH"~fruits of JOY, PEACE, HAPPINESS, in their FULLNESS and DEEPEST degrees that is beyond our understanding, and expectation, that NOTHING in this world could possibly come to matching!  This IS as good as it could be.   1 Corinthians 2:9,10....BUT, the best is this: "AND THEY SHALL SEE HIS FACE"~Revelation 22:4

Offline TruthScientist

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Re: Who Is Responsible for the Suffering of the Palestinians?
« Reply #22 on: Yesterday at 03:18:13 PM »
lots of treaties were signed DaveW...  can a treaty be considered a covenant?

It can.  But it is not Scripture.

not in scripture correct

but they both are agreements or pacts... 
We capitalist have the astounding belief that the most cunning men will do the most cunning things for the greatest good of everyone...  John Maynard Keynes

the worst lie is when we lie to ourselves and believe it in hopes that others do also... ldb

Offline TruthScientist

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Re: Who Is Responsible for the Suffering of the Palestinians?
« Reply #23 on: Yesterday at 03:23:59 PM »
doesn't the beef of the palestinians began with them claiming heritage from Abraham?  although as you say God gave it to israel...

so they resign themselves to destroy israel because they feel the land should be theirs. 

no ismalel probably no dispute over canaan...Am I close...?
We capitalist have the astounding belief that the most cunning men will do the most cunning things for the greatest good of everyone...  John Maynard Keynes

the worst lie is when we lie to ourselves and believe it in hopes that others do also... ldb

Offline Jaime

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Re: Who Is Responsible for the Suffering of the Palestinians?
« Reply #24 on: Yesterday at 07:27:01 PM »
If you read the Koran, Ishmael as the son of the promise. Close but no cigar. The Great Deceiver, Alah aka Satan and bis "prophet" Mohammed has fostered a pretty good counterfeit Holy book.
So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. - Milton Friedman

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. - Milton Friedman

Offline Jaime

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Re: Who Is Responsible for the Suffering of the Palestinians?
« Reply #25 on: Yesterday at 07:41:25 PM »
Also:

Genesis 16:12

New International Version

He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.

His brothers presumably the descendants of Jacob (Jews).
So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. - Milton Friedman

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. - Milton Friedman

Online DaveW

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Re: Who Is Responsible for the Suffering of the Palestinians?
« Reply #26 on: Today at 05:47:11 AM »
Israel owns it's land via war.

Wrong.  Israel owns its land (that which is currently "Israel" plus parts of Egypt, Syria, Iraq and all of Jordan) per Divine declaration.  Those territories are Israel forever.  God is not one to take back what He has given.  EVER. Even when they were physically removed from the land per disobedience it still was owned by Israel.

Online DaveW

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Re: Who Is Responsible for the Suffering of the Palestinians?
« Reply #27 on: Today at 05:49:16 AM »
lots of treaties were signed DaveW...  can a treaty be considered a covenant?
It can.  But it is not Scripture.
not in scripture correct

but they both are agreements or pacts...
Scriptural promises are made by God Himself and are eternal. 
Man made treaties and agreements are only as good as the men who made them.