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Author Topic: How should Christians Approach Politics?  (Read 7829 times)

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crowcamp

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #35 on: Sun Sep 21, 2014 - 21:03:01 »
IMHO, charity can never be legislated. That governments have become involved in establishing welfare for the less fortunate is shortsighted, wasteful, and against Christian principles. We, those who follow the teachings of Christ, are to be the givers, the caretakers, the safety net. If we truly believe in His Word we give all, until there is nothing left. Why? Because we have been given everything. Now, I'm sure you will find many "Christians" who will disagree.

What governments can do is legislate incentives to be charitable. Actually, that is precisely what that should be legislating. If the needed funds flowed directly to charitable organizations and on to those in need instead of through bureaucratic agencies the results would be much more positive. We, the followers of Christ, are supposed to be those organizations. Unfortunately, we are not.

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #35 on: Sun Sep 21, 2014 - 21:03:01 »

Offline One Mind

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #36 on: Mon Sep 22, 2014 - 07:09:37 »
One Mind, you need to learn the difference between a gift freely given and a tax extorted under penalty of law. You also need to learn the difference between being selfish and lying to the Holy Spirit. [I suggest that you reread Acts 5.]

I know the difference between a charitable heart and taxes.  I also know of the deep selfishness of humanity. Charity to care for our poor here in America has never been enough. Yet to takes taxes which are paid anyway and use that to care for the poor irks some people. They get all riled up about it. So they care more about tax money being spent on the poor, than they care for the poor.

This is not to say that I agree with how our social safety nets are construed, for I do not. But I agree with the principle being used, for if not for that, americans would suffer a great deal more than they already do, in this Brave New World of Neo Feudalism. (globalization)

Perhaps we need to look into our own black hearts and SEE the real reason we are against using tax money to care for the poor? 

Taxes are here to stay, even if we hate paying them. As long as they are here to stay, and if we are gonna extract taxes(render unto casaer those things which are his...)  to get upset about using some of that money to care for the poor illustrates  much about such people. Their "misplaced" principles trump human life. An idea is more important than flesh and blood.  They cling to an idea created by a selfish human brain, so that they might feel ok about not using tax money to care for the poor. Yet many of these people are always ready to spend that money on killing other humans. The hypocrisy screams up towards heaven.  The Creator knows the heart of man. Even without the screaming, the stomping of selfish feet.

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #36 on: Mon Sep 22, 2014 - 07:09:37 »

Offline One Mind

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #37 on: Mon Sep 22, 2014 - 07:24:48 »
Quote Never
One Mind, you need to learn the difference between a gift freely given and a tax extorted under penalty of law. You also need to learn the difference between being selfish and lying to the Holy Spirit. [I suggest that you reread Acts 5.]


Yes .  Also it is odd that the top 10% of folks pay 86% of all taxes and yet are accused of not paying their fair share.

They pay more today in proportion than they once did. The middle class used to pay the largest part, but then the middle started dying, more and more income went to the top, and so you must tax those who are making the money, which is the rich. They pay more because they are making most of the income.

The rich are a defiled group of people in the eyes of God. These so called Christians do not read their own scripture, and are lovers of wealth, when Christ clearly told us it is almost impossible for the rich to get into Heaven. In America today, we worship wealth, and many people desire to be rich, even as Christ railed against it.

The absurdity, the sheer nonsense involved is overwhelming.

Very few humans have ever gotten wealthy without exploiting other people. That is a fact. Only a greedy man gets wealthy. Is greed a sin, or not? Why worship the wealthy when they are so lost in sin? Why put them on pedistil to be looked up to, admired? This is what the world admires, and strives to be just like. But Christians are not supposed to be of the world, are they?  The ideals of this world should not be the ideals of Christians. I don't know many genuine Christians, but I know plenty of men who are of this world, yet call themselves Christians.

Why is it almost impossible for a rich man to get into heaven. Have you ever really thought about it? 

When God created the earth He also created all of life, flora and fauna, all of the resources that man would need in order to thrive here on this earth. He gave humanity the resources, and enough to care for all of humanity, and then left it up to humanity to see to it that these resources to be distributed to human beings. If He had personally took over the job, he would have given an equal amount to all people, for human beings rely upon the resources for life to continue on. But since He left it up to man, to do this, man being selfish, greedy wanted to hoard more of what God gave to ALL, and so we have always had a few who hoarded wealth they could never spend, as we allowed others to starve to death. And yet some would defend this?  It's sheer nonsense.

Offline Elsaur

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #38 on: Wed Dec 24, 2014 - 15:18:24 »
I've created a thread to discuss this issue since it seems many threads in this forum have been sidetracked to address this question.

In the future discuss this topic in this thread, instead of taking other threads off course.


Hello Wycliffes_Shillelagh

How should Christians approach politics?  We Christians approach politics the way law abiding citizens approach politics-with a bent to assure that justice and protection for all prevails.  As Christians, we are followers of our Lord Jesus of the Bible (our Creator), who IS truth and our source of wisdom.  Aren't protection and justice the primary responsibilities for government?  What should Justice be based on?  It's based on the law, of course-law that's based on the Mosaic Law.  If all involved in politics were lawful and just in all of their moves, much of the division and conflict we see around us would be eliminated.  Can a divided nation stand?

What about this thing called "separation of church and state?"  This phrase is not in the Constitution.  Jefferson used in a letter to assure a Baptist minister that the first amendment would be upheld in the case of his congregation.  The first amendment simply instructs government not to interfere with the FREE exercise of religion.  It controls the government, not individuals.  It was never meant to force Christians to drop allegiance to God in the public square for fear of offending anyone.  The Constitution instead frees us to apply peace promoting Biblical wisdom to all aspects of life.  Biblical religion that's correctly exercised is by nature offensive to no one and instead invokes blessing and protection for all. 
 
We give our allegiance to God of the Judeo-Christian Bible and no other in all of life's affairs including politics.  Is that wrong?  Do ships have more than one captain?  The spaceship called "earth" also has only one "Captain" that gave us our unalienable rights and holds us responsible to uphold and protect them.

'Nuff said? 

Take care,
Earl

« Last Edit: Thu Dec 25, 2014 - 07:39:01 by Elsaur »

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #38 on: Wed Dec 24, 2014 - 15:18:24 »
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Offline Spirit Filled

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #39 on: Sat Jun 13, 2015 - 21:51:44 »
How should Christians Approach Politics?

Wearing a surgical mask and carrying a hearty pair of tongs.
On our side of it it's all smoke and mirrors. On their side is the power, the corruption, the money, money, money, and power. They rule. We're deluded enough to think we have a voice and a choice. We don't. Look around. Is this what you wanted? Did you vote for it? Did that email you sent get paid attention to? Has anything changed for the better or is it getting worse?

The next generation ready to become our leaders are being programmed in our universities and colleges. Words have power. They evoke thought that in turn evokes vision.

Remember Seinfeld show? My how times have changed.   Read the book, The New Thought Police - Inside the Left's Assault on Free Speech and Free Minds, by Tammy Bruce.
Freedom is what we're told.

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #39 on: Sat Jun 13, 2015 - 21:51:44 »



Offline pureinheart

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #40 on: Wed Jul 22, 2015 - 18:09:32 »

Offline Hexalpa

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #41 on: Mon Oct 26, 2015 - 01:17:19 »
I would not give to the poor, I would look to help them prosper on their own account, That's what truly giving is all about.

Giving such the tools they need is what it's all about.

Just giving has nothing to do with God, as just giving can be like giving a mongrel dog a bone and all it will do is bite you.

No one truly get something for nothing by giving blindly, that's the work of Satan.

Once you take Church and State out of it, you have Satanic dictatorship communism on your hands. it's an direct attack on God !

All atheist grubs attack Church and State because they are God less.

The Satanic extreme right wing have been in powered by cunning morons that push the conservatives around with the help of the extreme left.

I look at it this way, the far right and the far left are extreme radicals who push their filth constantly much like a drug to delude all. they are Vampires !

If you could get both ends of the right and left and look at it as a face of a clock, 12 o' clock is the extreme of both left and right but only separated by type of a madness, but they are much the same dog, out to cunningly deceive all they can with their sick madness.

Now I can swing from 3 o'clock to 9 o'clock as I don't buy into that filth at all because from 12 to 3 are in slaved by the far left and 9 to 12 are in slaved by the far right.

The extreme right and left work hand in hand to fool all the people because they know they have to keep the facade up or risk being seen for who they truly are, a work of iniquity.  ::lookaround::

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #42 on: Wed Nov 04, 2015 - 22:49:58 »
I've created a thread to discuss this issue since it seems many threads in this forum have been sidetracked to address this question.

In the future discuss this topic in this thread, instead of taking other threads off course.

Some folk attempt to approach American politics by means of fanaticism.  Romans 13:1 is a favorite quotation of theirs implying absolute allegiance in their mind.   That's not what St. Paul intended in his letter.  Think about it.   

The letter was addressed to Christians living in the capital of an extremely militaristic and corrupt Empire.  Do you not think they were aware of their culture and their duties as citizens?  St. Paul did not intend his letter to be instruction in matters of which they were already intimately aware.   The tension they experienced was between allegiance to God and duty to Empire.  Allegiance and duty can be two different things.

No man can serve two masters.  No one can give allegiance to a corrupt world and the Kingdom of Heaven at the same time.  Either he will wrap himself in a flag stained with blood and greedy conquest or he will risk shedding his own blood for the sake of Heaven's pure call.  You cannot love nation and Heaven at the same time.   Jesus went even further.  His extreme political attitude was that one cannot even love his own life, but must learn to hate it if it conflicts with God's righteousness.   Every dedicated Christian fights with the tension between temptation and allegiance to Christ, but WHY does the effort suddenly have to be reinvented when national politics becomes a factor?  I submit that there is no difference.  Christ must always come first.

Consider that Jesus NEVER pledged allegiance to Rome or it's Emperor.
Consider that Jesus NEVER honored the troops whose bloody hands were the execution of unjust national policy.
Consider that Jesus NEVER participated in patriotic parades, ceremonies, boasts of national pride or honored its conquests.
Consider that Jesus was NEVER part of the political system.

What Jesus did...........

Was to live and act and work exactly like a tourist in a foreign land.
How does a tourist act?   
A tourist obeys the laws of the land, pays it's taxes and acts within the scope of it's custom.

In His life on earth, Jesus acted like a tourist among the people with whom He shared a heritage - the Jews.
He walked among them, but was recognized even by His enemies as someone who did not participate in their political games.

He paid the ultimate price for His lack of cooperation.

Today Americans are faced with a political system that has corrupted itself so far beyond recognition that definitions of debauchery seem to change daily.

For example, Political Science 101 taught us that the US government is composed of three branches; legislative, executive and judicial.
Yet since 1948 a forth branch has usurped more power than our founding fathers ever dreamed possible.   The forth branch is the combination of the Pentagon and Intelligence Community.   Shadow wars multiply like garden weeds and the world now suffers under the cruel endless war imposed by this fourth branch of the American government.   Even POTUS Bush and Obama were and are powerless to stop its march into power.   They are unelected and unsympathetic to the original American constitution and its limits.

Shall a Christian give allegiance to this government that now enjoys global hegemony and has ambition to hold onto it at all costs including the blood of innocents both at home and abroad?   Such a judgment is for each man and woman to make alone.   It should be remembered, however, that there will be a reckoning for one's actions - even those of a Christian.

Shall a government deep in murder and perversion be honored with allegiance greater than one would give to Christ?

There is no example in Holy Write that commands a Christian to give allegiance to any political system of the world.   We are told to live as ambassadors of the Holy God among men - as tourists in a foreign land that is sinking under the weight of its own lasciviousness and licentiousness.  We are to obey its laws insofar as our conscience allows and to pay its taxes, but that is the limit of God's expectations of us.

Increasingly the US government has lost the respect of most decent men.  It should have never had our allegiance in the first place.  Is it strange, I wonder, that no citizen was ever asked to give it until the middle of the 20th century by which time the future oligarchs had their plans and devices well placed and arranged?  In the 21st century, it is fair time to call the government what it is - demonic.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft... 
« Last Edit: Wed Nov 04, 2015 - 22:52:35 by Choir Loft »

Offline Mary7

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #43 on: Fri Nov 13, 2015 - 12:52:44 »
I've created a thread to discuss this issue since it seems many threads in this forum have been sidetracked to address this question.

In the future discuss this topic in this thread, instead of taking other threads off course.

Some folk attempt to approach American politics by means of fanaticism.  Romans 13:1 is a favorite quotation of theirs implying absolute allegiance in their mind.   That's not what St. Paul intended in his letter.  Think about it.   

The letter was addressed to Christians living in the capital of an extremely militaristic and corrupt Empire.  Do you not think they were aware of their culture and their duties as citizens?  St. Paul did not intend his letter to be instruction in matters of which they were already intimately aware.   The tension they experienced was between allegiance to God and duty to Empire.  Allegiance and duty can be two different things.

No man can serve two masters.  No one can give allegiance to a corrupt world and the Kingdom of Heaven at the same time.  Either he will wrap himself in a flag stained with blood and greedy conquest or he will risk shedding his own blood for the sake of Heaven's pure call.  You cannot love nation and Heaven at the same time.   Jesus went even further.  His extreme political attitude was that one cannot even love his own life, but must learn to hate it if it conflicts with God's righteousness.   Every dedicated Christian fights with the tension between temptation and allegiance to Christ, but WHY does the effort suddenly have to be reinvented when national politics becomes a factor?  I submit that there is no difference.  Christ must always come first.

Consider that Jesus NEVER pledged allegiance to Rome or it's Emperor.
Consider that Jesus NEVER honored the troops whose bloody hands were the execution of unjust national policy.
Consider that Jesus NEVER participated in patriotic parades, ceremonies, boasts of national pride or honored its conquests.
Consider that Jesus was NEVER part of the political system.

What Jesus did...........

Was to live and act and work exactly like a tourist in a foreign land.
How does a tourist act?   
A tourist obeys the laws of the land, pays it's taxes and acts within the scope of it's custom.

In His life on earth, Jesus acted like a tourist among the people with whom He shared a heritage - the Jews.
He walked among them, but was recognized even by His enemies as someone who did not participate in their political games.

He paid the ultimate price for His lack of cooperation.

Today Americans are faced with a political system that has corrupted itself so far beyond recognition that definitions of debauchery seem to change daily.

For example, Political Science 101 taught us that the US government is composed of three branches; legislative, executive and judicial.
Yet since 1948 a forth branch has usurped more power than our founding fathers ever dreamed possible.   The forth branch is the combination of the Pentagon and Intelligence Community.   Shadow wars multiply like garden weeds and the world now suffers under the cruel endless war imposed by this fourth branch of the American government.   Even POTUS Bush and Obama were and are powerless to stop its march into power.   They are unelected and unsympathetic to the original American constitution and its limits.

Shall a Christian give allegiance to this government that now enjoys global hegemony and has ambition to hold onto it at all costs including the blood of innocents both at home and abroad?   Such a judgment is for each man and woman to make alone.   It should be remembered, however, that there will be a reckoning for one's actions - even those of a Christian.

Shall a government deep in murder and perversion be honored with allegiance greater than one would give to Christ?

There is no example in Holy Write that commands a Christian to give allegiance to any political system of the world.   We are told to live as ambassadors of the Holy God among men - as tourists in a foreign land that is sinking under the weight of its own lasciviousness and licentiousness.  We are to obey its laws insofar as our conscience allows and to pay its taxes, but that is the limit of God's expectations of us.

Increasingly the US government has lost the respect of most decent men.  It should have never had our allegiance in the first place.  Is it strange, I wonder, that no citizen was ever asked to give it until the middle of the 20th century by which time the future oligarchs had their plans and devices well placed and arranged?  In the 21st century, it is fair time to call the government what it is - demonic.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
I agree with you 100%
Here are some interesting links
This man is a Baptist pastor and that is all I know about him but I agree with this:
[links removed - Rule 3.3]

I also believe that Christians have mixed patriotism and politics with Christianity to the point of losing following Jesus. Jesus is not an American citizen. We are citizens of heaven
2tim 2 No one serving as a soldier gets entangled in civilian affairs, but rather tries to please his commanding officer.
But the thing really boils down to the debate of does America belong to God.. was it established by God. I used to believe that as a former flag waving Tea Party member but i no longer do.
 Most of the founding Fathers were Diests not Christians.
The whole rebellion against the government went against the Bible

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.


The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John AdamsTHOMAS JEFFERSON Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823"One day the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in the United States will tear down the artificial scaffolding of Christianity. And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.

I am sure there will be an uproar from this just as I would have protested before I really started investigating all of it.
 
« Last Edit: Fri Nov 13, 2015 - 17:29:22 by Nevertheless »

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #44 on: Sun May 08, 2016 - 10:23:54 »
I've created a thread to discuss this issue since it seems many threads in this forum have been sidetracked to address this question.

In the future discuss this topic in this thread, instead of taking other threads off course.

Liberty is dead in America, especially the type that respected a man's religious convictions.   

The fact that the topic of this thread has to be debated at all is symptomatic of the condition of the death of integrity, honesty, selfless contribution to society and respect for God and His reign over the nations of men.

The Judeo-Christian heritage is one that recognizes God and His principles above that of the individual, of the family, of the community and of the nation.   It is God that is esteemed highest of all in that tradition.   In it, liberty thrives.  Without it, repression and wickedness raises its ugly murderous head.

Once upon a time I put on a uniform.  The act represented my desire to preserve the right of my fellow citizens to live their lives as they sought fit - without government supervison and oppression.   Today that is not so, for the US govenment is insinuating itself even into our public bathrooms, our houses of worship, our work places and our private lives.   Many believe it will not be long before a man can be arrested for the slightest infraction of the law or even as a result of the basless rumor of a neighbor.

The United States has become a fascist police state.  If the reader does not understand the definition of those horrible descriptive words or how they apply today, then I invite him or her to engage in personal education to do so.

It is the duty of the Jew and Christian to apply their energies and votes accoring to their religious convictions and integrity.  Without it they risk the loss of their immortal souls, their earthly heritage and their hope for the future of their children.

Why is it so often asserted that every other willful and self-centered group in America has a right to speak and publish and vote, but Jews and Christians do not?   This is not liberty.   This is not democracy.   It is the outward action of a repressive state.

If it were appointed to me today to put on a uniform (again) to defend this country, I would not.   It no longer represents the political realities that once made it great.   Today it represents a nation that is hated and distrusted world wide - even by our one time allies.

IF GOD DOSE NOT JUDGE AMERICA, HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.
- Shanghai curse   circa 1937

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...   

Offline SHINY4UJESUS

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #45 on: Wed Oct 12, 2016 - 17:44:47 »
LOL...With a 10 foot pole, a thoroughly evidenced position, a spirit of love and grace, a hesitancy to speak unless ready for a drawn out controversy, haha! But really...as in all things let us stay biblical in both action and intention...let us be intentional with what attitude and spirit we reflect; its one thing to defend a position, its another thing to attack another's. I would advise a few things:
 A) It is by far the safest to simply not become involved; especially if one is like myself, or perhaps Peter; with passion driving just a tad too hard. Its easy to get too emotionally invested.
 B) If you wish to take a position; be sure to have scriptural foundation and plenty of worldly evidence as a side-note to ensure you have reason to be established in such a position.
 C) Remember, folks WILL disagree. Folks WILL get upset. And eventually folks WILL lash out at each other. We cannot control the actions of others,..but we CAN control our reactions. Let us see that defending a position and attacking others in the wrong spirit are two different things. Be ready to disagree; but equally ready to agree to disagree.
D) Keep in mind we are told to give honor where honor is due, and to be subject to man's authority; servant to it as we would serve Christ. Therefore it is literally part of our duty (if we wish to be 'good stewards,')to participate in the civic and political process to some extent. Otherwise we are neglecting what our participation can be doing to promote a better atmosphere for obedience to the message and commands of Christ. That said: let me clarify, that requires one to vote (except where a clear separation from the will and Word of God are concerned, in which case one is allowed to err on the side of God's commands rather than man's.) This does NOT require folks to fight over it though..LOL. That is entirely optional and highly likely in political forum.
E) So...in the end; be prepared, be properly directed, and have thick skin cuz politics often "brings the flesh to the fore right quick."
« Last Edit: Wed Oct 12, 2016 - 17:48:37 by SHINY4UJESUS »

Offline delade3

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #46 on: Sat Nov 19, 2016 - 13:23:20 »


501c3

 One need not look far to see the devastating effects 501c3 acceptance has had to the church, and the consequent restrictions placed upon any 501c3 church. 501c3 churches are prohibited from addressing, in any tangible way, the vital issues of the day.

For a 501c3 church to openly speak out, or organize in opposition to, anything that the government declares "legal," even if it is immoral (e.g. abortion, homosexuality, etc.), that church will jeopardize its tax exempt status. The 501c3 has had a "chilling effect" upon the free speech rights of the church. LBJ was a shrewd and cunning politician who seemed to well-appreciate how easily many of the clergy would sell out.

Churches were only added to section 501c3 of the tax code in 1954. We can thank Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson for that.

Maybe that is why Churches in America cannot speak against homosexuality within The Body of Christ.
« Last Edit: Sat Nov 19, 2016 - 15:28:23 by Alan »

Offline delade3

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #47 on: Sat Nov 19, 2016 - 13:27:13 »
What might occur if the Government 'legalizes' the blaspheming of Church as a  'free speech' right?

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Re: How should Christians Approach Politics?
« Reply #48 on: Sat Nov 19, 2016 - 13:29:14 »
What might occur if the Government 'legalizes' the blaspheming of Church as a  'free speech' right?

Definitely something the Church members should discuss with their Pastors.