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Online Jaime

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Enhanced Interrogation vs Drone Strikes
« on: December 11, 2014, 07:45:34 AM »
I fully realize that Bush doing both was obviously the worst thing since Nazi Germany, but why would Democrats including Obama think enhanced interrogation is morally reprehensible and drone strikes KILLING a suspect and likely some innocents as collateral damage is somehow higher moral ground?

By the way I DO support both especially Obama's ramping up of the drone strikes.

If it were up to me, I would probably also employ pig blood IVs for the detainees to rob them of their entrance into paradise in their minds, demotivating their headlong sprint to martyrdom...........72 Virgins and all.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 07:56:52 AM by Jaime »

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Enhanced Interrogation vs Drone Strikes
« on: December 11, 2014, 07:45:34 AM »

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Enhanced Interrogation vs Drone Strikes
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2014, 08:06:56 AM »
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I fully realize that Bush doing both was obviously the worst thing since Nazi Germany, but why would Democrats including Obama think enhanced interrogation is morally reprehensible and drone strikes KILLING a suspect and likely some innocents as collateral damage is somehow higher moral ground?

Because that is what Obama has decided to do and if you ever question anything Obama does it is because he has black skin and you're a racist.

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If it were up to me, I would probably employ pig blood IVs for the detainees to rob them of their entrance into paradise in their minds, demotivating their headlong sprint to martyrdom...........72 Virgins and all.

Yes, whatever it takes to destroy their will to fight.  The fighting will continue until then.  In addition to pig blood IVs, I've thought about crop spraying planes dispersing pig blood over them during a fight dipping the ammo in pig blood, etc.  Perhaps having some prisoners buggered by hogs and putting the video on the internet, too.  Some or most may call it cruel.  I'm for whatever will make the other side shudder at the mere thought of messing with us.  This distant twilight struggle between Islam and liberty will continue until one side throws in the towel.   


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Re: Enhanced Interrogation vs Drone Strikes
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2014, 08:06:56 AM »

Offline crowcamp

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Re: Enhanced Interrogation vs Drone Strikes
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2014, 08:14:56 AM »
Yep, Jaime, you are a racist for your questions and an Islamophobe for your attitude towards the peaceful Muslim folks.

Geesh.  ::doh:: ::whistle:: ::lookaround::

Offline Amo

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Re: Enhanced Interrogation vs Drone Strikes
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2014, 09:52:19 AM »
I fully realize that Bush doing both was obviously the worst thing since Nazi Germany, but why would Democrats including Obama think enhanced interrogation is morally reprehensible and drone strikes KILLING a suspect and likely some innocents as collateral damage is somehow higher moral ground?

By the way I DO support both especially Obama's ramping up of the drone strikes.

If it were up to me, I would probably also employ pig blood IVs for the detainees to rob them of their entrance into paradise in their minds, demotivating their headlong sprint to martyrdom...........72 Virgins and all.

Do you realize you basically just said in the above, that you are the closest thing to a Nazi supporting Nazi Germany as one can get? Are you sure your suggestion above would demotivate them, or would it just enrage them unto acts of sheer rage and desperation? What effect would it have upon you, if a nation defiled you, your family, and your friends in relation to your God? Would you tuck your tail between your legs, or would you all the more resolutely resist and war with those you knew to be guilty?

Drone strikes certainly do have their effect. No clue or warning, just instant destruction from above. Like destroying fire being brought down upon the earth in the sight of men.

Rev 13:11 ¶  And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12  And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14  And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Is this not us and our nation and allies? Are we not all over the world, trying to transform it into our own image? Was this the intent of the Founding Fathers, that we should be involved with the politics of all the world and the wars concerning it? No these are the intentions of another. One which has always considered it her right to dominate and rule all the world.

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George Washington Farewell Address, Philadelphia, PA, 1796-09-17

"The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is, in extending our commercial relations to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us stop.
Europe has a set of primary interests which to us have none or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves by artificial ties in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics or the ordinary combination and collisions of her friendships or enmities.
Our detached and distant situation invites and enables us to pursue a different course. If we remain one people, under an efficient government, the period is not far off when we may defy material injury from external annoyance; when we may take such an attitude as will cause the neutrality we may at any time resolve upon to be scrupulously respected; when belligerent nations, under the impossibility of making acquisitions upon us, will not lightly hazard the giving us provocation; when we may choose peace or war, as our interest, guided by justice, shall counsel.
Why forego the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor, or caprice?
It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world, so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements. I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs that honesty is always the best policy. I repeat, therefore, let those engagements be observed in their genuine sense, but in my opinion it is unnecessary and would be unwise to extend them."



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Medieval Sourcebook:
Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, 1302


THE BULL UNAM SANCTAM , 1302
The Bull 'Unam Sanctam', in which Pope Boniface VIII asserted his rights against King Phillip the Fair of France, is a landmark in the history of the doctrine of Papal Primacy.


The following English translation of 'Unam' is taken from a doctoral dissertation written in the Dept. of Philosophy at the Catholic University of America, and published by CUA Press in 1927.
 
UNAM SANCTAM (Promulgated November 18, 1302)
Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins, as the Spouse in the Canticles [Sgs 6:8] proclaims: 'One is my dove, my perfect one. She is the only one, the chosen of her who bore her,' and she represents one sole mystical body whose Head is Christ and the head of Christ is God [1 Cor 11:3]. In her then is one Lord, one faith, one baptism [Eph 4:5]. There had been at the time of the deluge only one ark of Noah, prefiguring the one Church, which ark, having been finished to a single cubit, had only one pilot and guide, i.e., Noah, and we read that, outside of this ark, all that subsisted on the earth was destroyed.

We venerate this Church as one, the Lord having said by the mouth of the prophet: 'Deliver, O God, my soul from the sword and my only one from the hand of the dog.' [Ps 21:20] He has prayed for his soul, that is for himself, heart and body; and this body, that is to say, the Church, He has called one because of the unity of the Spouse, of the faith, of the sacraments, and of the charity of the Church. This is the tunic of the Lord, the seamless tunic, which was not rent but which was cast by lot [Jn 19:23-24]. Therefore, of the one and only Church there is one body and one head, not two heads like a monster; that is, Christ and the Vicar of Christ, Peter and the successor of Peter, since the Lord speaking to Peter Himself said: 'Feed my sheep' [Jn 21:17], meaning, my sheep in general, not these, nor those in particular, whence we understand that He entrusted all to him [Peter]. Therefore, if the Greeks or others should say that they are not confided to Peter and to his successors, they must confess not being the sheep of Christ, since Our Lord says in John 'there is one sheepfold and one shepherd.' We are informed by the texts of the gospels that in this Church and in its power are two swords; namely, the spiritual and the temporal. For when the Apostles say: 'Behold, here are two swords' [Lk 22:38] that is to say, in the Church, since the Apostles were speaking, the Lord did not reply that there were too many, but sufficient. Certainly the one who denies that the temporal sword is in the power of Peter has not listened well to the word of the Lord commanding: 'Put up thy sword into thy scabbard' [Mt 26:52]. Both, therefore, are in the power of the Church, that is to say, the spiritual and the material sword, but the former is to be administered _for_ the Church but the latter by the Church; the former in the hands of the priest; the latter by the hands of kings and soldiers, but at the will and sufferance of the priest.

However, one sword ought to be subordinated to the other and temporal authority, subjected to spiritual power. For since the Apostle said: 'There is no power except from God and the things that are, are ordained of God' [Rom 13:1-2], but they would not be ordained if one sword were not subordinated to the other and if the inferior one, as it were, were not led upwards by the other.

For, according to the Blessed Dionysius, it is a law of the divinity that the lowest things reach the highest place by intermediaries. Then, according to the order of the universe, all things are not led back to order equally and immediately, but the lowest by the intermediary, and the inferior by the superior. Hence we must recognize the more clearly that spiritual power surpasses in dignity and in nobility any temporal power whatever, as spiritual things surpass the temporal. This we see very clearly also by the payment, benediction, and consecration of the tithes, but the acceptance of power itself and by the government even of things. For with truth as our witness, it belongs to spiritual power to establish the terrestrial power and to pass judgement if it has not been good. Thus is accomplished the prophecy of Jeremias concerning the Church and the ecclesiastical power: 'Behold to-day I have placed you over nations, and over kingdoms' and the rest. Therefore, if the terrestrial power err, it will be judged by the spiritual power; but if a minor spiritual power err, it will be judged by a superior spiritual power; but if the highest power of all err, it can be judged only by God, and not by man, according to the testimony of the Apostle: 'The spiritual man judgeth of all things and he himself is judged by no man' [1 Cor 2:15]. This authority, however, (though it has been given to man and is exercised by man), is not human but rather divine, granted to Peter by a divine word and reaffirmed to him (Peter) and his successors by the One Whom Peter confessed, the Lord saying to Peter himself, 'Whatsoever you shall bind on earth, shall be bound also in Heaven' etc., [Mt 16:19]. Therefore whoever resists this power thus ordained by God, resists the ordinance of God [Rom 13:2], unless he invent like Manicheus two beginnings, which is false and judged by us heretical, since according to the testimony of Moses, it is not in the beginnings but in the beginning that God created heaven and earth [Gen 1:1]. Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.


Yes, we are increasingly performing the will of the Roman Pontiff. He is the original and true leader of all globalists, whether they know it or not.



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Re: Enhanced Interrogation vs Drone Strikes
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2014, 09:52:19 AM »
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Online Jaime

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Re: Enhanced Interrogation vs Drone Strikes
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2014, 10:42:20 AM »
Amo, do you realize I was being facetious about us being like the Nazis. I was making fun of those that denigrate Bush. My more than obvious point was that the Dems are playing politics by saying enhanced interrogation is morally reprehensible and drone strikes are not. Both are not. Forget your gobbedly gook about the pope.

Do you think our atomic attacks on Japan enraged them or broke and demotivated them to the point of defeating them? All war is hell and we are certainly in the middle of a long war now. Playing nice will not work. Just like in a street mugging or a fist fight, you use EVERYTHING at you disposal to defend yourself.

If one of my daughters were kidnapped and I captured one of them, I would stop at nothing to get information out of the one guy as to the whereabouts of my daughter. This is very similar to what Bush faced after 911. Enhanced interrogation is nothing compared to what these dung beatles perpitrated.

When we are personally attacked, we come out slinging snot and breaking heads with what ever we can get our hands on. No difference in our national post 911 scenario. And the Pope had nothing to do with it one way or the other.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 11:54:24 AM by Jaime »

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Re: Enhanced Interrogation vs Drone Strikes
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2014, 10:42:20 AM »



Offline Amo

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Re: Enhanced Interrogation vs Drone Strikes
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2014, 11:01:58 AM »
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Amo, do you realize I was being facetious about us being like the Nazis. I was making fun of those that denigrate Bush. My more than obvious point was that the Dems are playing politics by saying enhanced interrogation is morally reprehensible and drone strikes are not. Both are not. Forget your gobbedly gook about the pope.


No, actually, I did not know you were being facetious. Much is lost in conversation without facial expression, mannerisms, and tone of voice. I’m glad you were being facetious, though I believe both tactics being discussed are leaning in a dangerous direction, we are still a far cry from the Nazi’s. Unfortunately, it is historical fact that it is the trend of almost all government in and of this world to become overbearing and abusive toward at least one group of people existing within the grasp of its authority, if not all of them. What is being used against “terrorists” today, may be used against any perceived enemy tomorrow. In many cases, all who disagree with their governments and will defend their right to, will be deemed enemies of the state. Or shall we say domestic terrorists. The government and those running it at any given time, will of course define what terrorism is.

I’ve always thought the term was gobbeldy goop, not gobbedly gook. You may choose to ignore the political strides of the leader of over one billion people around the world which have all been instructed to establish papal social teaching and doctrine through legislation everywhere possible if you wish, I will not. This is exactly what the people of Germany did when Hitler and his Nazi party were rising to power. Wouldn’t you know it, the Pope was the leader of the first foreign political entity to make an accord with Hitler and the Nazi’s. They instructed their people to cooperate with Hitler at that time, as they have instructed their people to support one abusive form of government after another all throughout their history. Now here you are ridiculing any concern over the same influence upon our nation and world. I could easily provide the historical evidence of such, as well as much more recent papal statements to the effect of the one world governing body and economic power they envision, under their thumb of course. It is also easily established that that our own government is heavily influenced by her through the large number of her politicians occupying our legislative halls. They represent a majority in all three branches of our government.

Yet here you are choosing to ignore all of this, apparently until it comes and bites you right in the ass. So be it. We all have choices to make. Nor have many generations of humanity at all heeded the warnings which God has sent to them. The bible itself records that even those professing to be God’s people have almost always rejected those who God Himself sends to warn them of impending danger. It will be no different now I suppose. All the evidence is there for anyone who cares to examine it, and the responsibility lies upon each one of us ourselves to examine the facts in relation to the prophecies of God’s word.

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Do you think our atomic attacks on Japan enraged them or broke and demotivated them to the point of defeating them? All war is hell and we are certainly in the middle of a long war now. Playing nice will not work. Just like in a street mugging or a fist fight, you use EVERYTHING at you disposal to defend yourself.


Comparing this to our war with the Japanese is way off base. We declared war with Japan as a nation and rightly so for their unprovoked and underhanded attack of our nation. This war would be with a religion not a nation, and our government has not and will not declare war with this religion. Such a war as you suggest could be fought and won, and this does not serve their purpose. A continuous war on terrorism though, does serve their purpose. It is far more easily maintained, and creates more fear and confusion than a conventional war which allows for greater resolution and determination among those fighting it. To bring about real change, you must keep those you are manipulating in a state of fear and confusion, and thus willing to allow whatever it takes to end the same. Apparently you simply do not believe there is anyone diabolical enough to actually employ this methodology. Though for the life of me, considering the history of humanity, I cannot see why you wouldn’t. Even if there were not men willing to do it, the devil most certainly would and is, with or without the aid of humanity.

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If one of my daughters were kidnapped and I captured one of them, I would stop at nothing to get information out of the one guy as to the whereabouts of my daughter. This is very similar to what Bush faced after 911. Enhanced interrogation is nothing compared to what these dung beatles perpitrated.


Exactly! See, the plan works perfectly. We are prepared to allow for almost anything, which of course involves giving our government to power to do almost anything.

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When we are personally attacked, we come out slinging snot and breaking heads with what ever we can get our hands on. No difference in our national post 911 scenario. And the Pope had nothing to do with it one way or the other.


This you do not and cannot know. The Pope meets with political leaders from all over the world, influencing the same. This includes many a Muslim leader. History has proved her role in instigating wars all throughout her existence. You simply choose to believe she is no longer involved in the same, even though there is no questioning the fact that few if any other political entities of this world, have as much access and communication with as many of the nations of this earth as her. You are wrong, and if you are around long enough this chosen ignorance will bite you in the ass. It already has, you just don’t know it or won’t admit of it.

http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1341731?eng=y

http://www.concordatwatch.eu/showsite.php?org_id=843

http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/world/2014/11/28/19608493/

http://christiannews.net/2013/12/16/pope-meets-with-head-of-international-islamic-organization/

http://www.thenews.com.pk/article-67795-Pope-meets-Muslim-leaders-in-Lebanon

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/pope-francis-to-meet-leader-of-international-islamic-group

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2011/09/germany-pope-meets-with-muslim-leaders.html

http://article.wn.com/view/2014/11/30/Pope_Francis_prays_with_Muslim_leader/

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/catholic/THS1GBE8RPH547VH9

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2010/jun/05/pope-meets-muslim-leader-in-cyprus/



 

Online Jaime

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Re: Enhanced Interrogation vs Drone Strikes
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2014, 11:11:52 AM »
No, and you are ignorantly wrong about terrorism. We have done EXACTLY THE RIGHT THING with these guys. More enhanced interrogation and way more drone attacks are needed. Only a fool believe that we are not in a war, we definitely are. THEY declared it.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 11:17:29 AM by Jaime »

Offline Amo

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Re: Enhanced Interrogation vs Drone Strikes
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2014, 08:34:20 PM »
No, and you are ignorantly wrong about terrorism. We have done EXACTLY THE RIGHT THING with these guys. More enhanced interrogation and way more drone attacks are needed. Only a fool believe that we are not in a war, we definitely are. THEY declared it.

You didn't here me say we weren't in a war. You heard me say our government will not declare war on Islam, or even acknowledge we are at war with the same. No, I am not ignorantly wrong about terrorism, and we have not done exactly the right thing with these guys. There is cause and effect. It is the globalist agenda that has dragged us many places we should not have gone. Now we are hopelessly caught up in the trap.

Online Jaime

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Re: Enhanced Interrogation vs Drone Strikes
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2014, 08:44:37 PM »
Nope. We did exactly what we should have done. But Onama has hirt us except for ramoing up the drone strikes. If anything we should be much more aggressive. Obama thinks we are done with boots on the ground in the Middle East.

This war cannot be won by retreating to our borders. If we do we will lose badly.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 09:06:31 PM by Jaime »

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Re: Enhanced Interrogation vs Drone Strikes
« Reply #9 on: Today at 12:12:07 AM »
Nope. We did exactly what we should have done. But Onama has hirt us except for ramoing up the drone strikes. If anything we should be much more aggressive. Obama thinks we are done with boots on the ground in the Middle East.

This war cannot be won by retreating to our borders. If we do we will lose badly.
what borders?  He has wiped them out...

anyone  watch the Kelly interview with James Mitchell this past week?  Very telling!

O is weakening our military and cozying up to other dictators. 

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Re: Enhanced Interrogation vs Drone Strikes
« Reply #10 on: Today at 05:34:39 AM »
Old airborne infantry SF here.  I ran a mock POW camp as part of the training of infantry troops and we did far worse things to our own troops than the enhanced interrogation .  Just silliness  War is a terrible thing but can not be fought and won and be PC at the same time.  It only has one rule win. 

Offline Amo

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Re: Enhanced Interrogation vs Drone Strikes
« Reply #11 on: Today at 10:46:00 AM »
Old airborne infantry SF here.  I ran a mock POW camp as part of the training of infantry troops and we did far worse things to our own troops than the enhanced interrogation .  Just silliness  War is a terrible thing but can not be fought and won and be PC at the same time.  It only has one rule win.

Then who are you to say those who would and do employ terrorism are wrong? They are fighting a war, and according to your own standard, there is nothing wrong with employing terrorism as part of a war strategy. If the only rule is win, then quit crying about your enemies tactics. With such standards, terrorism is simply another form of warfare.

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Re: Enhanced Interrogation vs Drone Strikes
« Reply #12 on: Today at 12:09:19 PM »
Where have I been crying about their tactics.  I have condemned our in action.  The only way to deal with terrorist is to eliminate it.  The whole purpose of war is to kill people and blow up stuff kill the enemy until the enemy no longer has the will to resist.  That is war regardless of how you feel about it.  It can not be fought PC or trying to always make sure there are no "non combat people" in the target area.  Even God instructed His people to kill everyone and even their animals.  So no I do not have a problem with a terrorist getting their head dunked in water.  Like I said we do far worse in training for POW with our own troops.