What? No One Wants To Talk About Trent Lott?

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What? No One Wants To Talk About Trent Lott?

« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2002, 06:39:03 PM »

Actually Kari,

I think you should keep plugging away. Just temper your heart with your head. Let your heart drive you with passion and your head keep you from too much discouragement. :wave:


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What? No One Wants To Talk About Trent Lott?

« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2002, 02:12:34 PM »

Fate,

Let's be honest here. Trent got jobbed … his kind words to a 100-year-old departing colleague have been grossly misrepresented.

After discussing Strom Thurmond's service to the country he came to a part in which he stated that Thurmond had once run for president and that the majority in Mississippi had voted for him. "We're proud of it," Lott said to applause. "And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years, either."

I mean let's think about this. An old man is resigning. His career is over. Kind parting words saying basically "We'd been better off to have you." As Lott said, "Not an endorsement of his positions of over 50 years ago, but of the man and his life."

Democrats and other liberals like Jessie Jackson see blood in the water and attack. The firestorm of protest over Lott's alleged racism is a red herring … complete and utter bovine excrement.

Except for one very unlikely person--Tom Daschle, who was just outsted from being the majority leader. Senate Democratic leader Tom Daschle came to Lott's defense Monday, saying he had talked with Lott on the phone and accepted Lott's explanation that he hadn't meant for the remarks to be interpreted as they were.

Other senators have said far worse and had their apologies quickly accepted and the offense forgiven (Bob Byrd, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, etc.).

Al Gore's own father filibustered the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Al Gore himself mocked Oliver North's supporters as "the extra-chromosome right-wing" in a comment that outraged Down Syndrome sufferers. Current Senator Robert Byrd (Democrat-WV), was not only a member of the Klu Klux Klan, he was paid $10 a hood for each new member he recruited. You don't hear about these things do you?

But Republican Trent Lott says some kind words about history's oldest member of Congress and the longest-serving senator EVER and people are acting as though he burned crosses.

As John Stossel would say, "Give me a break!" :sarcasim:

[!--EDIT|admin|Dec. 23 2002,5:37--]


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What? No One Wants To Talk About Trent Lott?

« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2002, 02:12:34 PM »


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What? No One Wants To Talk About Trent Lott?

« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2002, 06:10:43 PM »

Apparently George Corley Wallace still lives in the hearts of many supposed Christians.


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What? No One Wants To Talk About Trent Lott?

« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2002, 07:21:23 PM »

I don't think the democrats have turned from the sins of racism. I believe there to be both racist democrats and republicans. I don't think the only racists are white and I don't think the only racists are republicans.


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What? No One Wants To Talk About Trent Lott?

« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2002, 07:21:23 PM »


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What? No One Wants To Talk About Trent Lott?

« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2002, 07:33:18 PM »

Has anybody got a handy list of exactly which sins exhaust the grace of God when a Christian does something stupid?

Like praising a doddering old man for a ridiculously long term of public service...

Or considering that the mostly uneducated, disenfranchised black slave population might not be ready for all-at-once emancipation, tossing them out in the cold to sink or swim after finishing the Civil War, and thus not pushing for emancipation until some popular support solidified...

Or continuously voting in people who like short-term solutions, like easily available abortions...

Or speeding?


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What? No One Wants To Talk About Trent Lott?

« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2002, 08:12:14 PM »

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Janine, what if a racist does not repent of his racism when it is shown to be sinful?[/quote]

I guess the same thing happens then that happens when an habitual speeder refuses to give up speeding, even when he's ticketed.

Louisiana has had a nasty school system. The pocket of decent education I was blessed to have access to, existed because of rich infusions of oil money.

As for horrid ignorant uneducated disenfranchised Southern whites... even after the mess of the Civil War, they had a much better infrastructure in place within which to recover, than a propertyless ex-slave did.

As for my people, personally, we were busy trying to mind our trapping and farming and shrimping, and to ignore the American overlords put in place after the war. Not too much sympathy for persecuting the blacks among my people. The same idiots harrassing them harrassed us.

If Lincoln (who of course did not think the average black man with a background of slavery was his fully equipped social equal, I didn't deny he thought that way...) had simply tacked on freedom for the slaves, with no forethought, no rallying of public sentiment, no twisting of political arms... even if he could have rammed it through into law somehow, it would've been overturned.

The movement needed to grow, to become a decent groundswell. Popular abolitionists like Stowe, and the legacy of England's Wilberforce, had to be in the mix, stewing away, until it grew into something that could not be ignored. Sometimes you have to kill a spider with a meat axe.

Even so, look at the long ongoing process of dealing with the legacy of slavery.

Ever wish the Founding Fathers had been less pragmatic and left the bits in the Constitution that would have made slavery either illegal, or at least a lot harder to maintain? Even a system of bondservitude can have better boundaries than out-and-out slavery...

But, then, there's all sorts of extra-Constitutional and even anti-Constitutional laws flapping around out there today, so maybe the evils of American-style slavery would have happened even if the pertinent bits were left in.

As for Trent Lott and Strom Thurmond, the main reason I never even looked at this thread before is because I hadn't time to give the topic all the rich consideration and benefit of my sagacity that it deserves. Hee. Snnszzzz... :zzzz:


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What? No One Wants To Talk About Trent Lott?

« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2002, 08:12:14 PM »


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What? No One Wants To Talk About Trent Lott?

« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2002, 08:13:05 PM »

I would say that's definitely one reason. The big discussion in my Sunday morning class a couple of weeks ago that led to the Racist remark I mentioned in another thread began when a visitor, who was recently divorced from an inter-racial marriage, mentioned that several people had mentioned these Old Testament scriptures about intermarrying to her.

A second reason would be that conservative Christianity in the US is most prevelant in the same areas where racism is the most prevelant. The pool of Christians comes from the pool of the general population. While I suspect BH may reverse the cause and effect on this, I don't think that would be a valid argument. Racism became ingrained in Southern society as a result of slavery, which was an economic concern, not as a result of religions practiced there.


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What? No One Wants To Talk About Trent Lott?

« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2002, 07:58:32 PM »

Yes, Republicans have made mistakes before.

Lee


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What? No One Wants To Talk About Trent Lott?

« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2002, 10:59:36 PM »

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]This thread has turned into "my party is better than your party."[/quote] Be real! I know my party has its own problems. Our former president, admire him though I still do, definitely cured me of worshipping the party as infallible!;)

No one is arguing that the Democrats are without sin. The point is simply that Lott had no place praising a campaign of segregationism, that it wasn't the first time he's made that error, and that he SHOULD have lost his job. No liberal media conspiracy, just the principle of reaping what one sows.

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]But, some would say that we would have been better off with Thurman because he was (and is) pro-life. He was anti-homosexual agenda, [/quote]

So, the anti-homosexual thing outweighs the racist basis of his campaign? Why?

Did the anti-homosexual thing outweighs the racist basis of his campaign in God's eyes?

Why is being 'anti-homosexual agenda' so important to you? Is it because homosexuality is condemned in scripture? If so, why isn't racism (among other sins that are apparently ok w/many conservatives) also important to you?

BH pointed out a few pages ago that John told us, [!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]15Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him. [/quote]

So, if we accept scripture, we must acknowledge that the segregationism of the Dixiecrats, as well as the more subtle, code-word racism of today, is murder in God's eyes. There is no argument.

If you believe abortion to be murder, which I know you do, and scripture tells us that the platform of segregation (which is, of course, hate) is murder to God, then Trent Lott might as well have said that if we'd voted pro-abortion back then we wouldn't be having all these problems now. How can you defend that?

Janine, I have a hard time with you & Booty, telling if you're being serious or sarcastic (it must be the dialect). If you aren't just taking a shot, I do feel strongly about making sure the world knows the truth about Christ and His church. I'd hate for seeking people to think Christianity is about that right-wing fringe junk, and have them flee screaming into the arms of Wicca.

Kari

ps You might ought to let go of the dixiecrat/democrat theme-as we all know, the segregationists had to LEAVE the democrat party when the dems turned their back on that particular sin.


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What? No One Wants To Talk About Trent Lott?

« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2002, 11:17:49 AM »

Mr. Wilson,

Your SECOND post on page 5 was exceptional. I really wish that someone in the media would say that or read it out loud! I wish you would publish it, however, after reading your publication for a while I have come to realise that you reveal your opinions more freely on this board than on the e-zine.

Anyway, thank you for the post and I would like to encourage all readers here to read that particular post. I would like to know what you think. Again, it's Mr. Wilson's (Admin) SECOND post on page 5.

Thank you.


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« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2002, 11:17:49 AM »


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« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2002, 06:21:57 PM »

patriciaredstone-you are always an encouragement and a blessing. Thank you.

Fate-my head knows you are right, but my heart keeps thinking that with God everything's possible.

I usually just save myself the headache and skip to the forums (which are great), but I can't recommend the site to anyone in good conscience. And, seeing that everything we do is supposed to be about bringing in those 'seekers', I have to continue to speak out against whatever keeps them from finding our Lord.

The evangelicals have a reasonable magazine out in Christianity Today, maybe others can move in that direction.

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]My prayer is that we are nearing the end of a thirty-year era of this self-centered gospel.[/quote]

patricia, that's my prayer as well.

Kari.


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What? No One Wants To Talk About Trent Lott?

« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2002, 02:35:11 PM »

Actually, I have heard nothing but comments about Robert Byrd and the KKK ever since Trent Lott made his idiotic remarks. More later. Got to get to work.


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« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2002, 07:13:21 PM »

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]As far as Trent Lott goes, if he is racist, can he change? Is change possible? [/quote]

So do we allow for the prevailing spirit of the day? How much do we allow? Do we require that people change their beliefs when the group as a whole realizes its error?

Does anyone but BH believe racism to be a salvation issue?

Kari

ps tickler, yes many of the segregationists were originally Democrats. Of course, when the Democrat party turned away from that sin, they had to move on over to the Republicans.


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What? No One Wants To Talk About Trent Lott?

« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2002, 07:13:21 PM »


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« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2002, 07:25:37 PM »

Is speeding a salvation issue?

What sins are salvation issues and which aren't? Does ignorance always condemn?


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What? No One Wants To Talk About Trent Lott?

« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2002, 08:35:11 PM »

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Exactly. I love it when you prove my points.

The average illiterate goober-brained Southern white freckled red-headed red-necked finger-up-nose progeny of cousins disenfranchised post-Civil-War person, disadvantaged as he was, still had a few more tiny little advantages over some slave refugeed and trampled by the back-and-forth of both armies, not the least of which is the fact that they would not be hassled by anyone due to their race.

Thus my idea that I'm glad whatever little bits of forethought went into planning for the Emancipation, went in. It would've been an uglier picture without than with.[/quote]
Confused


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