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Author Topic: Who Pays Taxes in America?  (Read 52420 times)

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Offline johnnyQ

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #140 on: Thu Jan 21, 2010 - 15:51:55 »
When those fat cat car company presidents went before congress to beg for bail out money, it was revealed that some of those guys pay a lower percentage in taxes than I do.  That's not fair,...but I bet it's par for the course, because they can hire savvy tax attorneys to find tax shelters in which to hide their money. That's why we need FLAT TAX.  EVERYONE pays the same % and there are NO EXEMPTIONS,....PERIOD.

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #140 on: Thu Jan 21, 2010 - 15:51:55 »

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #141 on: Fri Jan 22, 2010 - 12:32:09 »
When those fat cat car company presidents went before congress to beg for bail out money, it was revealed that some of those guys pay a lower percentage in taxes than I do.  That's not fair,...but I bet it's par for the course, because they can hire savvy tax attorneys to find tax shelters in which to hide their money. That's why we need FLAT TAX.  EVERYONE pays the same % and there are NO EXEMPTIONS,....PERIOD.

If everything you said was true, all you are complaining about is that there are some folks who know the tax laws better than you do.  However, I do agree that a flat tax is better.  It would probably cause me to have to find some other gig, but that's ok.  For me to complain about that would be like an oncologist complaining about a cheap over-the-counter cure for cancer.

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #141 on: Fri Jan 22, 2010 - 12:32:09 »

Offline johnnyQ

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #142 on: Fri Jan 22, 2010 - 12:49:30 »
Right,...loop holes that only the wealthy can afford to pay someone to find for them,...which enables them to pay less of a percentage in taxes than others who make much less than they.  Sure, it may be legal, but just because something's legal doesn't make it right.  Porn is legal, but it's not right. Divorce for just about anything is legal, but it's not right.

jq

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #143 on: Fri Jan 22, 2010 - 13:24:16 »
All a loophole is is a legal and ethical way to save on your taxes and someone else hasn't heard of it.

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #143 on: Fri Jan 22, 2010 - 13:24:16 »

Offline johnnyQ

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #144 on: Fri Jan 22, 2010 - 13:40:29 »
Trying to get out of paying your fair share of income taxes is ethical?????

"Render to Ceasar what is Ceasar's and to God what is God's."
« Last Edit: Fri Jan 22, 2010 - 14:18:17 by johnnyQ »

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #144 on: Fri Jan 22, 2010 - 13:40:29 »



Offline Jaime

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #145 on: Fri Jan 22, 2010 - 16:18:16 »
If someone finds a legitimate reason that they don't have to pay a tax, is it their fair share to pay or is it their fair share without that portion. The tax code is thousands of pages so that politicians can do social engineering with the taxpayers. If it was only about fair share, the tax code would be a 1/2 page long. I would love that, but that's not what we have to work with. No one is evil for taking a deduction due them by the tax code. Fair has nothing to do with the current system. It's all about control. Politicians controlling our behavior.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #146 on: Fri Jan 22, 2010 - 16:26:55 »
Should every taxpayer have the same deductions whether they have 0 children or 8? The person with no children pays more tax than the person with 8 children. Is the person with the 8 children paying their fair share? Of course they are, with the tax code. Is the person with 0 children paying more than their fair share? No, of course not, with the tax code. Is it unfair that I get to take a deduction for property taxes on the house I own, but the guy that rents doesn't get to? Of course it is! No one should voluntarily pay more than they are required by the tax code to pay. Paying more is not fairer, it is stupid under the current system. Pay only what you are required to. It may involve paying a tax consultant a couple of hundred dollars to get all the deductions you are due, but not taking them is just dumb.
« Last Edit: Fri Jan 22, 2010 - 16:42:38 by Jaime »

Offline johnnyQ

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #147 on: Sat Jan 23, 2010 - 09:45:23 »
We have such Americanized ethics. Speaking of myself as well.  I can rationalize a lot of things that benefit me,...but when push comes to shove,....they aren't right.  I am always looking to pay less taxes than I should,...legally,....but in no  way, shape or form is it RIGHT that I should pay less taxes than someone who makes less money than me. In our culture it's fine.  Why would you want to do that?  Well so you can have MORE.  Let's not candy coat it,...that's GREED.

We go 5 miles over the speed limit(or more)but don't see that as breaking the law, and/or unchristian.  Little corners like this, we seem to cut and never think of unbecoming behavior because in our culture/society,....its the norm.  Again, we have done this with divorce.  Jesus gives us a hard teaching about it in the Sermon on the Mount,...but we water it down or say it's not literal and disregard it because,....we want to,...it's makes it easier on us,......because our culture and society have done so and it's filtered into the Body of Christ,...we soft peddle Christ's teachings more than we realize,....yet sit in pompous/pious judgement of others.

And I am the chief of transgressors, in that regard.

jq

Offline Jaime

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #148 on: Sat Jan 23, 2010 - 12:14:18 »
Johnny, no one here is advocating cheating on taxes. We all should only pay what is required by the code for OUR situation. AND we should all take every legal deduction available. That's all I or anyone else is saying. If you paid more than someone making more money, you likely didn't take all the deductions available to you. Like I have said, fair has nothing to do with the current tax code, it is a tool of social engineering utilized by people that think governnmment is the answer. Government is hardly ever the answer. Also as Nick has pointed out correctly the other guy may have done some wise tax planning. Things we all can do during the year can affect our tax burden at the end of the year.  It ain't at all about I made this and you made that, so why the difference. We all need good tax advice, especially with thousands of pages of tax code affecting us.
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 25, 2010 - 05:31:53 by Jaime »

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #149 on: Sun Jan 24, 2010 - 22:51:41 »
Trying to get out of paying your fair share of income taxes is ethical?????

"Render to Ceasar what is Ceasar's and to God what is God's."

If it is legal, it isn't "getting out", but simply obeying the law.

Offline Joseph shall add

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #150 on: Fri Jan 29, 2010 - 15:01:36 »
     Alot of views on this LOL. From the time of the foundation of this nation until 1913 there was not one single cent paid to the Federal Government as a income tax. The reason is it was barred by the constituation of the United States. The Constituation is the Supreme Law of the Land by which all powers of the government and the People are derived. In our case the fathers of the Constituation refered to the bible for the creation of the nations Governement. And that also included the taxing powers of the Government. The bible declares all of God peoples Kings and Priest, refering back to the instruction of the Levitical order Priesthood. The priest are not to be taxed. Thus the framers rendered the constituation in such a way as to allow taxes but not a income tax. Thus we do have taxes that are legal and we do have taxes that are illegal. 

      The income tax is a form of a illegal tax. The government does not have the power to delegate power it does not have via the constituation. The government has the right per the constituation to enter into a tready and even a contract. And it can even print money but it does not have to power to delegate it powers to others as in a federal reserve. That power was never conveyed in the Constituation.

      From my limited understanding, The people of a nation are also subject to the sins of a nation. In the example of a income tax when you pay income tax and then that money is used to promote abortion then indeed you have funded that abortion via paying taxes.
This of Course flies in the face of free exercise of religion clause in the Constituation. Also it flies in the face of a great number of other articals of the constituation. Every man has to right to life, liberty. Wait the right to life. To have life you have to eat and to eat you have to work. Thus how can you keep the whole of the Constitution and have a Income Tax.

       The simple fact is a income tax is and has always been illegal. A tax on income subjects a free people to serftom and slavery. Income is not earning from labor or time donated. Income is profit from business engagement on a corperate level. If a man is free and he goes and cuts down a tree and then get cash for cutting down the tree and selling his tree. There is not true profit made. He has exchanged his labor and his own tree which he already owned for another from of trade. Cash. And that man has also had to pay for his food to carry on that activity, His cloths, His truck, His tools ect.

       Lets look as the difference between a worker and a corperation. per the US Code on taxes. 

       A corperation is allowed to right off its overhead, labor paid, materials used to conduct business and so forth. A corperation is a citizen of the government just like any other person in the site of the Courts. They have by contract applied for that right to exist and the Government conveys that right. Yet that right to convey citizenship does not exist in the Constituaton of the United States, as far as this type of citizen. This is a different class of citizen actually. ELETE CLASS. As a result these people are taxed less then citizens.

      A person citizen of the United States does not apply for a single thing they are born with the rights they have been born with as Given by the Constitution of the United States. Per the US Code you and I can enter into a labor agreement just like a corperation. We can work for a manufactor and get paid. But we are not allowed to right off our food ( which is a reguirement ot work ) nor our clothes ( which is needed to be able to work ) nor our auto expence to get to work ( once again needed to work).
Thus serftum and slavery. SERVENT CLASS As a whole American workers are taxed more then anyone one really want to admit. Think about if you were making 20,000 a year and then taxed on it. Well the tax would be on the total. But wait a second what about the cost to get that 20,000 that you had to put up to get it. Well these are your labor expences. Why can't you right down those expences like a coperation. Now you take 20000 and reduce it by auto expence, clothing expence, medical expence, food expence.
and in actually real world terms you may have made 5000 dollars. A corperation has the privilage of doing exactly that but you do not. In fact you are taxed at about 70 percent weather you know it or not. And corperations are taxed at about 15 percent. Bet you did not know that. 

      Every 10 years we have a census in the US. That census is so that direct proportionment can be done amoung the many states. Now in America no citizen is conveyed as being more privileged then anyother citizen. Nor is any citizen required to pay taxes that are not conveyed according to the powers of the US constituation of the the United States and that tax must be proportioned amoung the many states. In the creation of the 16 amendment there was a attempt to creat classes of citizens in the United States. And to define a citizen as property of the State. Yet that which is a citizen is a citizen by birth alone. Citizens are created by a creator in the case of the People of the United States our creator is the Constituation in fact. For it is what defines us as a people. Yet that is in a legal since.

     Corperations are conveyed the right to exist and are not created by a the creator the U.S. Constituation. Corperations only have the rights given them by the Government. They are a different class of Citizen.

      So in affect the a income tax is a violation of the Powers of he Constituation, all power not conveyed to the Government are the states and the people.

      It is for these reason that we have many raiseing cain about the income tax which I must agree is illegal and unethical to all the Citizens on the Nation. When a nation engages in social engineering there will be a desire of the powers that be to take from the hard working people and give to the bumbs in a effort to justify the poverty of those who will not work. Of course that is a insane mindset. If people have no motive to change they will not. So people say lets fix them and given them food and cash. While emposing taxes on those who will work to provide fro there families. The end result is more bumbs and the hard working people buy guns and amo. The problem with social engineering is that it operates apart from God and his word. So over the last 100 years America which had very little problem with proverty has now become poverty itself. But like so many slaves most do not even know they are slaves.

     And people think they are blessed becasue they make more then there parents or grandparents did. That simple is not the case. The actually buying power of the dollar is the measure of your wealth in terms comparing between your state of being and that you your forfathers. A loft of bread that cost you 1.25 is actually worth about 4 cents. And you parents or grandparents paid that at one time. Americans are just about to come to some hard truths. When a currency deflates 95 percent over nite the price of bread will be 8.00.  In America today we have a problem that is just about the break.
Can you say "Total Destruction".  In a effort to prop up the corperations and the banks in America the tax payers have been tapped to the point of no return. As the dollar slids i expect to see people revolt outright. Sky high tax increases And that is the reason millions have been buying firearms and putting them back with amo. I also expect not to be here, I am going home soon I hope.

      It is indeed the end times, Jesus said give unto Ceasar what is Ceasars. Ceasar is dead folks he does not need you money. When taxes are due pay them. But pray and ask the Lord and he will speak to you about "Give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar". He also said whos inscription is this they said Ceasars, Whos inscription is on the dollar. At the top of the Dollar " Federal Reserve Note" It also states The United States of America.
Actually this is not money. On the Dollar it also states that this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private. The Federal Reserves is a corperation of bankers, and not a citizen of the United States. It operates about the laws of the Constituation and protections afforded us by the Constituation. They are a law unto themselfs. They have tax judges but wait a second. All people in the country have a right to seek redress right?
Well not as far as the tax courts are concerned. You can't be free if you do not truly have free access to a court of you peers in a none corperate owned court. Thus stems the real issue of the Federal Reserve in a nut Shall. A free people are not subjects or a corperations of bankers which is what the Federal reserve is. They are a power other then the United States. Thus the act of TREASON is what is really being spoke of.

       No president has the right to sell to a foreign power the labor of the nation. Nor does the congress. The simple fact is Congress and president Wilson voliated ariticat 3 section three of the Constituation.

Offline gotagoodwife

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #151 on: Wed Feb 24, 2010 - 17:36:40 »
Harry Reid says that nobody HAS to pay taxes - they are voluntary.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7mRSI8yWwg[/youtube]
« Last Edit: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 09:17:12 by tennman »

Offline tennman

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #152 on: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 09:23:35 »
Harry sounds like Baghdad Bob. He'll tell you that "the fact of the matter is, it's daylight outside" and then tell you there's a full moon out. He loves taxes and government so much that he won't even dabble in reality.
« Last Edit: Thu Feb 25, 2010 - 09:31:06 by tennman »

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #153 on: Tue Mar 02, 2010 - 20:44:28 »
From my limited understanding,

Yeah, that about sums it up.

Offline Thrice

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #154 on: Wed Mar 03, 2010 - 00:57:49 »
It would appear self-evident that inherent in America's wealth and power is an increased ability do good or evil in this world.

With increased power and wealth comes additional responsibility, and as the world's only superpower, America and Americans will be held accountable for how they were used for the glory of God and the benefit of mankind.

America is also like the Rich Young Ruler whose wealth also places an additional barrier between itself and God - thus the "eye of the needle" reference.  :eek:








 









Great points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline Jaime

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #155 on: Wed Mar 03, 2010 - 08:25:07 »
To whom much is given, much is expected.

Offline johnnyQ

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #156 on: Fri Mar 05, 2010 - 13:30:39 »
To whom much is given, much is expected.
I want to address the original question briefly.  We know Charlie Rangel doesn't pay taxes in America,...okay maybe sales tax.  It's amazing to me that people who want to serve in our federal government would have the audacity to seek office, or hold office and NOT PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE IN TAXES!!! Rahm Emmauel is one of them too,....how he passed muster for being Chief of Staff with the bipatisan approval committee, I will never know.  The only thing I can figure is that the Dems and Republicans on the approval committee thought that his not having paid his taxes and his apology and actions of going back and paying them was better than they had done in the past or maybe their present tax evasion situation. I think we should sound off about that!

jq

Offline Jaime

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #157 on: Fri Mar 05, 2010 - 16:28:04 »
I agree JQ.

Offline xpressmyfaith

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #158 on: Wed May 05, 2010 - 18:17:03 »
I know that the taxes can become a subject of heated debate but I'm trying not to get worked up about the tax issue: "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's..."-Mark 12:17

Offline purpleducks

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #159 on: Fri May 07, 2010 - 10:23:24 »
But we should only give to Ceaser what is his while we are alive, not after we're dead. If you don't want to pay the death tax, better die this year while there is no death tax.
 


Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #160 on: Thu May 13, 2010 - 07:13:59 »
I know that the taxes can become a subject of heated debate but I'm trying not to get worked up about the tax issue: "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's..."-Mark 12:17

If I work for it it is mine, not Ceasar's.

Offline percoid

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #161 on: Thu Jul 29, 2010 - 16:41:28 »
Go to taxfree15.com and watch freedom to fascism and you will ask why anyone in America pays taxes.

Offline gratefulilearn

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #162 on: Fri Jul 30, 2010 - 11:46:15 »
Quote
"The richest 1% of the population now owns almost 35% of all the private wealth in America, more than the bottom 90% of the population combined." - The Wealth Inequality Reader (edited by Dollars & Sense and United for a Fair Economy),   p. vii   

"The income of the 400 wealthiest taxpayers grew steadily in the years 1992 to 2000, while their tax burden plummeted." - Today's Headlines: (New York Times) Thursday, June 26, 2003 


  "The very idea of redistributing wealth can feel un-American in the land of Horatio Alger, until you look closely at how it's spread now. Half of us earn less than $30,000 a year, 90 percent less than $100,000. To get an idea of how we value our values, Howard Stern earns every 24 seconds what takes a cop or a teacher about a week to earn."
Time Magazine cover story - October 30, 2006
WEALTH = POWER = MORE WEALTH = MORE POWER ..........

When the top 1% of the population controls more of the nation's wealth than the bottom 90%, you cease to have a functioning democracy.

The "spread" between the very rich and the average citizen continues to grow, exposing the "American Dream" as an "American Myth." ::frustrated::


How true it is. And sad.

The powerful and wealthy ones are creating a new form of feudalism, there are only rulers and slaves.  They hate democracy.


 

Offline tennman

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #163 on: Fri Jul 30, 2010 - 12:11:45 »
Umm...the wealthy spend money. Lots of it. So the bottom 90% can always get a piece of it. We hear stories all the time of someone who is poor or middle class becoming wealthy by inventing something useful, investing, using athletic talents, starting a business, etc. The government needs to stop taxing small business (and all business) so much so that people who start businesses can compete and do well and so that businesses will have more money to hire more people.  

What about the gap between the ruling class (politicians) and citizens? It seems like their goal in life is to take more and more money out of our economy to pay for their agendas and limos. They form what has become a predator state.

Offline gratefulilearn

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #164 on: Fri Jul 30, 2010 - 12:43:45 »
Umm...the wealthy spend money. Lots of it. So the bottom 90% can always get a piece of it. We hear stories all the time of someone who is poor or middle class becoming wealthy by inventing something useful, investing, using athletic talents, starting a business, etc. The government needs to stop taxing small business (and all business) so much so that people who start businesses can compete and do well and so that businesses will have more money to hire more people.  

What about the gap between the ruling class (politicians) and citizens? It seems like their goal in life is to take more and more money out of our economy to pay for their agendas and limos. They form what has become a predator state.

The US tax system allow the wealthy pay taxes lower than their secretary and cleaners. Of course the wealthy have plenty of money to spend, on top of their wealth, they save big chunk from not paying enough taxes.

For instance, Warren Buffett, the third-richest man in the world, he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made on one year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent. 

This ought to ecourage significiant debate about growing income inequality and how the super-wealthy are taxed amoung all of us.

So, I agree with you on government should stop over-taxed the small business owners(not all business), they make up mostly our upper middle and middle-class, the unfairly taxation, scheme from the wall street and our bankers is destroying one of  country's important foundation that supported by middle class.

Our tax system supposed to tax the rich the most, but obviously didn't. The reason we end up having a predatory state is because most of our politians let the wealthy corrupt them, they both go hand in hand to steal and gather the wealth from the mass.

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #165 on: Fri Jul 30, 2010 - 12:51:17 »
For instance, Warren Buffett, the third-richest man in the world, he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made on one year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent. 

Please back up that statement with hard evidence.

Thanks!

bond

Offline stevehut

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #166 on: Fri Jul 30, 2010 - 12:56:03 »
Warren Buffett, the third-richest man in the world, he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made on one year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent.  

Please back up that statement with hard evidence.


Let's suppose for the moment, grateful's statement is true.  ::pondering::  So what?

Mr. Buffett has spent the last 40 years building a tax-generating machine.  Because of him, thousands of people have jobs who might not otherwise.  For this he should be rewarded, not punished with huge taxes.

k-pappy

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #167 on: Fri Jul 30, 2010 - 13:04:55 »
If it is not true, then it is not worth addressing.   If it is true, then there will be evidence to back it up.

bond

Offline gratefulilearn

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #168 on: Fri Jul 30, 2010 - 13:21:13 »
I am stating the truth. Our tax system is unfair. It is an system that will lead to rich ger richer, poor get poorer. Some wealthy and politians are intent to bring back the feudalism, a new form of feudalism. People may relate this to one way of establising one world government.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/tax/article1996735.ece

"Warren Buffett, the third-richest man in the world, has criticised the US tax system for allowing him to pay a lower rate than his secretary and his cleaner.

Speaking at a $4,600-a-seat fundraiser in New York for Senator Hillary Clinton, Mr Buffett, who is worth an estimated $52 billion (£26 billion), said: “The 400 of us [here] pay a lower part of our income in taxes than our receptionists do, or our cleaning ladies, for that matter. If you’re in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent.”

Mr Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent. Mr Buffett told his audience, which included John Mack, the chairman of Morgan Stanley, and Alan Patricof, the founder of the US branch of Apax Partners, that US government policy had accentuated a disparity of wealth that hurt the economy by stifling opportunity and motivation.

The comments are among the most signficant yet in a debate raging on both sides of the Atlantic about growing income inequality and how the super-wealthy are taxed.

They echo those made this month by Nicholas Ferguson, one of the leading figures in Britain’s private equity industry, when he criticised tax rates that left its multimillionaire venture capitalists “paying less tax than a cleaning lady”.

Last week senior members of the US Senate proposed to increase the rate of tax that private equity and hedge fund staff pay on their share of the profits, known as carried interest, from the 15 per cent capital gains rate to about 35 per cent.

Lloyd Blankfein, the chief executive of Goldman Sachs, acknowledged in an interview yesterday that there were justified concerns about the huge profits generated by private equity firms and that he worried that income inequality was “poisoning democracy”. He also said that he would be voting for the Democrat candidate at the next election. Mr Blankfein is the highest-paid executive on Wall Street, earning $54 million last year.

Mr Buffett, who runs the investment group Berkshire Hathaway and is widely regarded as the world’s most successful investor, said that he was a Democrat because Republicans are more likely to think: “I’m making $80 million a year – God must have intended me to have a lower tax rate.”

Mr Buffett said that a Republican proposal to eliminate elements of inheritance tax, which raises about $30 billion a year from the assets of about 12,000 rich families, would broaden the disparity between rich and poor. He added that the Republicans would seek to recover lost revenue by increasing taxes for the less prosperous.

He said: “You could take that $30 billion and give $1,000 to 30 million poor families. Or should you favour the 12,000 estates and make 30 million families pay an extra $1,000?”
« Last Edit: Fri Jul 30, 2010 - 13:29:46 by gratefulilearn »

Offline gratefulilearn

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #169 on: Fri Jul 30, 2010 - 13:25:46 »
Warren Buffett, the third-richest man in the world, he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made on one year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent.  

Please back up that statement with hard evidence.


Let's suppose for the moment, grateful's statement is true.  ::pondering::  So what?

Mr. Buffett has spent the last 40 years building a tax-generating machine.  Because of him, thousands of people have jobs who might not otherwise.  For this he should be rewarded, not punished with huge taxes.

He is a good businessman. But I was just pointing out that our tax system is faulted.  Something is wrong and this should awake us, at least to have a debate about it.

Offline gratefulilearn

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #170 on: Fri Jul 30, 2010 - 13:27:25 »
If it is not true, then it is not worth addressing.   If it is true, then there will be evidence to back it up.

bond

I had the same reaction as you, when I first hear it. I can't believe it.

Truth is hard to swallow, but now I gave you the evidence, what do you think?

k-pappy

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #171 on: Fri Jul 30, 2010 - 13:38:59 »
I appreciate the article, but all we have is Mr. Buffet's word, no actual evidence.  I've just finished reading the article, and I have a hard time believing that Mr. Buffet is correct.

Unless he is adding up county, state, federal income tax and then throwing in the state sales tax on top of that.  That could add up to 30%, or maybe he was talking about a British secratary?  They pay very high taxes in the UK, but that includes their health care.
 
Personally, I live in a state where there is no income tax.  I paid 4.8% in 2009...and I am FAR from wealthy, nor do I have any money in "tax havens."

For federal taxes on 60k, you would owe 18%.  State income sales taxes are on average 8%, so state income tax of 4% would make it 30%.  That is if she was taxed on the entire 60k, which is extremely unlikely.  Like I said, the number sounds very high.  I understand Mr. Buffet made that claim, but I don't see how unless he added up every tax the person paid throughout the year in which case he is makeing a false comparison.

Bond

Offline gratefulilearn

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #172 on: Fri Jul 30, 2010 - 15:11:14 »
I appreciate the article, but all we have is Mr. Buffet's word, no actual evidence.  I've just finished reading the article, and I have a hard time believing that Mr. Buffet is correct.

Unless he is adding up county, state, federal income tax and then throwing in the state sales tax on top of that.  That could add up to 30%, or maybe he was talking about a British secratary?  They pay very high taxes in the UK, but that includes their health care.
 
Personally, I live in a state where there is no income tax.  I paid 4.8% in 2009...and I am FAR from wealthy, nor do I have any money in "tax havens."

For federal taxes on 60k, you would owe 18%.  State income sales taxes are on average 8%, so state income tax of 4% would make it 30%.  That is if she was taxed on the entire 60k, which is extremely unlikely.  Like I said, the number sounds very high.  I understand Mr. Buffet made that claim, but I don't see how unless he added up every tax the person paid throughout the year in which case he is makeing a false comparison.

Bond

Why would he make lie about that?


Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #173 on: Fri Jul 30, 2010 - 16:13:41 »
Warren Buffett, the third-richest man in the world, he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made on one year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent. 

He would not have had such a tax bill with out tax planning.  So, yes he did try.

Offline Boo

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #174 on: Sat Jul 31, 2010 - 08:04:51 »
I see an interesting idea running around here.

Why does anyone think that anyone in America should pay a larger percentage of his or her income than anyone else?

We ALL have the same police departments, fire departments, etc.  We all have the security of our Armed Forces, we all drive the same roads, and enjoy the same opportunities to be "all we can be," yet people think that some folks should pay no taxes and successful people should make up the difference.

Why is that?  Even in the Old Testament, the giving rule by God was 10%.  It was not a "progressive tax" system instituted by God, that was done by man.

The flames I see thrown at the wealthy are based on percentages when accusing people of wrong doing: 17% v/s 30%; but when one considers the dollar amounts, the wealthy pay far more money.   IF everyone in America had no loopholes, no "king's Xs, and paid the same amount of income to support their country, would that not be the same kind of "fair" that God established?

This popular issue of not enough money from the wealthy and too much from the poor seems like smoke'n mirrors to me - just parroting the same Socialist claptrap that has been going on for years.

How much of this criticism is just a reflection of jealousy?  We need wealthy people in this country, but we act like farmers with only one cow.  We choose to eat beef instead of drinking milk - despite being aware that the one hamburger means no more milk.

Just to keep this interesting, let's consider one other point.  We allow everyone who has not had voting rights taken away to vote.  Nearly all of these votes affect issues or candidates that will have price tags associated with them.  These price tags will be paid by people who pay taxes -  and not by the zero-liability voter.

Why should a person who pays zero taxes pay attention to the effect of the vote?  No matter what their vote is, they will not have to pay the bill.  If half of the country pays no taxes and gets to vote to spend more money, what chance does the taxpayer have in warding off a higher tax bill?

I think we need to rethink how we parrot the words of some politicians.  While it sounds like their words indicate that they care about each of us personally, every time they want to tax and spend and we vote to give us more free stuff; we put one more foot into being slaves of the government.