Christian Forums and Message Board

     Alot of views on this LOL. From the time of the foundation of this nation until 1913 there was not one single cent paid to the Federal Government as a income tax. The reason is it was barred by the constituation of the United States. The Constituation is the Supreme Law of the Land by which all powers of the government and the People are derived. In our case the fathers of the Constituation refered to the bible for the creation of the nations Governement. And that also included the taxing powers of the Government. The bible declares all of God peoples Kings and Priest, refering back to the instruction of the Levitical order Priesthood. The priest are not to be taxed. Thus the framers rendered the constituation in such a way as to allow taxes but not a income tax. Thus we do have taxes that are legal and we do have taxes that are illegal. 

      The income tax is a form of a illegal tax. The government does not have the power to delegate power it does not have via the constituation. The government has the right per the constituation to enter into a tready and even a contract. And it can even print money but it does not have to power to delegate it powers to others as in a federal reserve. That power was never conveyed in the Constituation.

      From my limited understanding, The people of a nation are also subject to the sins of a nation. In the example of a income tax when you pay income tax and then that money is used to promote abortion then indeed you have funded that abortion via paying taxes.
This of Course flies in the face of free exercise of religion clause in the Constituation. Also it flies in the face of a great number of other articals of the constituation. Every man has to right to life, liberty. Wait the right to life. To have life you have to eat and to eat you have to work. Thus how can you keep the whole of the Constitution and have a Income Tax.

       The simple fact is a income tax is and has always been illegal. A tax on income subjects a free people to serftom and slavery. Income is not earning from labor or time donated. Income is profit from business engagement on a corperate level. If a man is free and he goes and cuts down a tree and then get cash for cutting down the tree and selling his tree. There is not true profit made. He has exchanged his labor and his own tree which he already owned for another from of trade. Cash. And that man has also had to pay for his food to carry on that activity, His cloths, His truck, His tools ect.

       Lets look as the difference between a worker and a corperation. per the US Code on taxes. 

       A corperation is allowed to right off its overhead, labor paid, materials used to conduct business and so forth. A corperation is a citizen of the government just like any other person in the site of the Courts. They have by contract applied for that right to exist and the Government conveys that right. Yet that right to convey citizenship does not exist in the Constituaton of the United States, as far as this type of citizen. This is a different class of citizen actually. ELETE CLASS. As a result these people are taxed less then citizens.

      A person citizen of the United States does not apply for a single thing they are born with the rights they have been born with as Given by the Constitution of the United States. Per the US Code you and I can enter into a labor agreement just like a corperation. We can work for a manufactor and get paid. But we are not allowed to right off our food ( which is a reguirement ot work ) nor our clothes ( which is needed to be able to work ) nor our auto expence to get to work ( once again needed to work).
Thus serftum and slavery. SERVENT CLASS As a whole American workers are taxed more then anyone one really want to admit. Think about if you were making 20,000 a year and then taxed on it. Well the tax would be on the total. But wait a second what about the cost to get that 20,000 that you had to put up to get it. Well these are your labor expences. Why can't you right down those expences like a coperation. Now you take 20000 and reduce it by auto expence, clothing expence, medical expence, food expence.
and in actually real world terms you may have made 5000 dollars. A corperation has the privilage of doing exactly that but you do not. In fact you are taxed at about 70 percent weather you know it or not. And corperations are taxed at about 15 percent. Bet you did not know that. 

      Every 10 years we have a census in the US. That census is so that direct proportionment can be done amoung the many states. Now in America no citizen is conveyed as being more privileged then anyother citizen. Nor is any citizen required to pay taxes that are not conveyed according to the powers of the US constituation of the the United States and that tax must be proportioned amoung the many states. In the creation of the 16 amendment there was a attempt to creat classes of citizens in the United States. And to define a citizen as property of the State. Yet that which is a citizen is a citizen by birth alone. Citizens are created by a creator in the case of the People of the United States our creator is the Constituation in fact. For it is what defines us as a people. Yet that is in a legal since.

     Corperations are conveyed the right to exist and are not created by a the creator the U.S. Constituation. Corperations only have the rights given them by the Government. They are a different class of Citizen.

      So in affect the a income tax is a violation of the Powers of he Constituation, all power not conveyed to the Government are the states and the people.

      It is for these reason that we have many raiseing cain about the income tax which I must agree is illegal and unethical to all the Citizens on the Nation. When a nation engages in social engineering there will be a desire of the powers that be to take from the hard working people and give to the bumbs in a effort to justify the poverty of those who will not work. Of course that is a insane mindset. If people have no motive to change they will not. So people say lets fix them and given them food and cash. While emposing taxes on those who will work to provide fro there families. The end result is more bumbs and the hard working people buy guns and amo. The problem with social engineering is that it operates apart from God and his word. So over the last 100 years America which had very little problem with proverty has now become poverty itself. But like so many slaves most do not even know they are slaves.

     And people think they are blessed becasue they make more then there parents or grandparents did. That simple is not the case. The actually buying power of the dollar is the measure of your wealth in terms comparing between your state of being and that you your forfathers. A loft of bread that cost you 1.25 is actually worth about 4 cents. And you parents or grandparents paid that at one time. Americans are just about to come to some hard truths. When a currency deflates 95 percent over nite the price of bread will be 8.00.  In America today we have a problem that is just about the break.
Can you say "Total Destruction".  In a effort to prop up the corperations and the banks in America the tax payers have been tapped to the point of no return. As the dollar slids i expect to see people revolt outright. Sky high tax increases And that is the reason millions have been buying firearms and putting them back with amo. I also expect not to be here, I am going home soon I hope.

      It is indeed the end times, Jesus said give unto Ceasar what is Ceasars. Ceasar is dead folks he does not need you money. When taxes are due pay them. But pray and ask the Lord and he will speak to you about "Give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar". He also said whos inscription is this they said Ceasars, Whos inscription is on the dollar. At the top of the Dollar " Federal Reserve Note" It also states The United States of America.
Actually this is not money. On the Dollar it also states that this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private. The Federal Reserves is a corperation of bankers, and not a citizen of the United States. It operates about the laws of the Constituation and protections afforded us by the Constituation. They are a law unto themselfs. They have tax judges but wait a second. All people in the country have a right to seek redress right?
Well not as far as the tax courts are concerned. You can't be free if you do not truly have free access to a court of you peers in a none corperate owned court. Thus stems the real issue of the Federal Reserve in a nut Shall. A free people are not subjects or a corperations of bankers which is what the Federal reserve is. They are a power other then the United States. Thus the act of TREASON is what is really being spoke of.

       No president has the right to sell to a foreign power the labor of the nation. Nor does the congress. The simple fact is Congress and president Wilson voliated ariticat 3 section three of the Constituation.

Harry sounds like Baghdad Bob. He'll tell you that "the fact of the matter is, it's daylight outside" and then tell you there's a full moon out. He loves taxes and government so much that he won't even dabble in reality.

It would appear self-evident that inherent in America's wealth and power is an increased ability do good or evil in this world.

With increased power and wealth comes additional responsibility, and as the world's only superpower, America and Americans will be held accountable for how they were used for the glory of God and the benefit of mankind.

America is also like the Rich Young Ruler whose wealth also places an additional barrier between itself and God - thus the "eye of the needle" reference.  :eek:








 

Great points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To whom much is given, much is expected.

I want to address the original question briefly.  We know Charlie Rangel doesn't pay taxes in America,...okay maybe sales tax.  It's amazing to me that people who want to serve in our federal government would have the audacity to seek office, or hold office and NOT PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE IN TAXES!!! Rahm Emmauel is one of them too,....how he passed muster for being Chief of Staff with the bipatisan approval committee, I will never know.  The only thing I can figure is that the Dems and Republicans on the approval committee thought that his not having paid his taxes and his apology and actions of going back and paying them was better than they had done in the past or maybe their present tax evasion situation. I think we should sound off about that!

jq

I know that the taxes can become a subject of heated debate but I'm trying not to get worked up about the tax issue: "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's..."-Mark 12:17

I know that the taxes can become a subject of heated debate but I'm trying not to get worked up about the tax issue: "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's..."-Mark 12:17

If I work for it it is mine, not Ceasar's.

Quote

"The richest 1% of the population now owns almost 35% of all the private wealth in America, more than the bottom 90% of the population combined." - The Wealth Inequality Reader (edited by Dollars & Sense and United for a Fair Economy),   p. vii   

"The income of the 400 wealthiest taxpayers grew steadily in the years 1992 to 2000, while their tax burden plummeted." - Today's Headlines: (New York Times) Thursday, June 26, 2003 


  "The very idea of redistributing wealth can feel un-American in the land of Horatio Alger, until you look closely at how it's spread now. Half of us earn less than $30,000 a year, 90 percent less than $100,000. To get an idea of how we value our values, Howard Stern earns every 24 seconds what takes a cop or a teacher about a week to earn."
Time Magazine cover story - October 30, 2006

WEALTH = POWER = MORE WEALTH = MORE POWER ..........

When the top 1% of the population controls more of the nation's wealth than the bottom 90%, you cease to have a functioning democracy.

The "spread" between the very rich and the average citizen continues to grow, exposing the "American Dream" as an "American Myth."

How true it is. And sad.

The powerful and wealthy ones are creating a new form of feudalism, there are only rulers and slaves.  They hate democracy.


 

Umm...the wealthy spend money. Lots of it. So the bottom 90% can always get a piece of it. We hear stories all the time of someone who is poor or middle class becoming wealthy by inventing something useful, investing, using athletic talents, starting a business, etc. The government needs to stop taxing small business (and all business) so much so that people who start businesses can compete and do well and so that businesses will have more money to hire more people.  

What about the gap between the ruling class (politicians) and citizens? It seems like their goal in life is to take more and more money out of our economy to pay for their agendas and limos. They form what has become a predator state.

The US tax system allow the wealthy pay taxes lower than their secretary and cleaners. Of course the wealthy have plenty of money to spend, on top of their wealth, they save big chunk from not paying enough taxes.

For instance, Warren Buffett, the third-richest man in the world, he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made on one year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent. 

This ought to ecourage significiant debate about growing income inequality and how the super-wealthy are taxed amoung all of us.

So, I agree with you on government should stop over-taxed the small business owners(not all business), they make up mostly our upper middle and middle-class, the unfairly taxation, scheme from the wall street and our bankers is destroying one of  country's important foundation that supported by middle class.

Our tax system supposed to tax the rich the most, but obviously didn't. The reason we end up having a predatory state is because most of our politians let the wealthy corrupt them, they both go hand in hand to steal and gather the wealth from the mass.