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Author Topic: Who Pays Taxes in America?  (Read 52286 times)

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Offline Jaime

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #210 on: Thu Dec 23, 2010 - 16:46:14 »
But someone that chooses to hold on to his wealth is not fodder for government to grab and redistribute. I would hope everyone would GIVE generously. I certainly am not wealthy on American standards, but I live like pampered royalty compared to the rest of the world. The rich holding or giving away their wealth has nothing to do with government or politics. But the government TAKING wealth has everything to do with politics, BAD politics.

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #210 on: Thu Dec 23, 2010 - 16:46:14 »

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #211 on: Thu Dec 23, 2010 - 16:52:44 »
The rich holding on to their wealth has everything to do with government, politics, and taxes. It provides the excuses, the rationalizations. If the rich were taking care of the poor there would be no logic available to apply to government programs and taxation. Programs are created to address perceived needs. Taxes are collected to fund those programs. Loving one another, caring for each other as commanded, would make all of that moot.

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #211 on: Thu Dec 23, 2010 - 16:52:44 »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #212 on: Thu Dec 23, 2010 - 16:56:46 »
I don't know any greedy Christians. I know some Christians that have a lot AND give a lot. I presently tithe or give away a tenth, not because it is required but because it is a handy starting point. I believe I will have my finances to a point I can give more in 2011. My wife works at a Christian school here in Midland and they are trying to raise money for a new building. She said the superintendent approached a local businessman we go to church with and asked for a donation hoping for possibly a couple of hundred thousand dollars. The man asked without hesitating, "Is a million enough." I am convinced God has blessed this man IN ORDER for him to bless others. He and his wife are not pretentious in any way and you would never know they had more than anyone else. I know of several individuals that were down on their luck or out of work that this man and others made whole for an entire year.

There are greedy rich folks as well as greedy paupers. God has a way of blessing the generous ones!

Offline Jaime

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #213 on: Thu Dec 23, 2010 - 16:58:51 »
As a followup to the above post, I know several $3000 per month millionaires, or regular folks that try to put on "airs" of wealth. I have no use at all for those idjits.
« Last Edit: Sat Dec 25, 2010 - 09:28:26 by Jaime »

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #213 on: Thu Dec 23, 2010 - 16:58:51 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #214 on: Thu Dec 23, 2010 - 17:02:17 »
Yep, ask any wealthy "Christian". They will all tell you how "God has blessed them."  ::frown::
Or if it's easier, just tune in on Joel Osteen.

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #214 on: Thu Dec 23, 2010 - 17:02:17 »



Offline Jaime

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #215 on: Thu Dec 23, 2010 - 17:09:27 »
I don't have to ask them, I see what they give.

I don't know any Osteen disciples. I would assume God blessed them as he has blessed me. I certainly can't take any credit. I could, but everyone would recognize the stupidity in that.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #216 on: Thu Dec 23, 2010 - 17:11:10 »
By the way, my time of God's richest blessing was when I was unemployed for 6 months a few years ago.

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #217 on: Thu Dec 23, 2010 - 17:19:11 »
It's funny (not really) that "Christians" will say, "This is my money! I earned it! No one has any right to tell me what to do with it!" Doesn't work with laws of government, and certainly not with commandments of God.

Funny (again, not really), that if we only followed the commandments of God we wouldn't have to deal with the laws of government.

Offline revmitchell

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #218 on: Thu Dec 23, 2010 - 19:03:27 »
The rich holding on to their wealth has everything to do with government, politics, and taxes. It provides the excuses, the rationalizations. If the rich were taking care of the poor there would be no logic available to apply to government programs and taxation. Programs are created to address perceived needs. Taxes are collected to fund those programs. Loving one another, caring for each other as commanded, would make all of that moot.


the rich do not need to take care of the poor. The poor need to care for themselves.

larry2

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #219 on: Fri Dec 24, 2010 - 02:33:07 »

It's funny (not really) that "Christians" will say, "This is my money! I earned it! No one has any right to tell me what to do with it!" Doesn't work with laws of government, and certainly not with commandments of God.

Funny (again, not really), that if we only followed the commandments of God we wouldn't have to deal with the laws of government.



Now you want to tear down what God has established?

Romans 13:1  The powers that be are ordained of God.
  
Romans 13:4  For he is the minister of God to thee for good.  

Romans 13:5  Become subject for conscience sake.
  
Romans 13:6  For this cause pay your taxes also.

Father, You make all the rich share with me and I won't need to call on You so often, we won't need the government You set there for my good, and Your righteousness will just spread to everyone huh?

No more need, no more worry

No more work, no need to hurry

Spiritual and worldly together now

Holy cow, O holy cow.
« Last Edit: Fri Dec 24, 2010 - 02:49:24 by larry2 »

Offline revmitchell

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #220 on: Fri Dec 24, 2010 - 05:57:02 »
It's funny (not really) that "Christians" will say, "This is my money! I earned it! No one has any right to tell me what to do with it!" Doesn't work with laws of government, and certainly not with commandments of God.

Funny (again, not really), that if we only followed the commandments of God we wouldn't have to deal with the laws of government.

As far as government goes in this country we, under our government, can oppose laws that go beyond constitutional boundaries. Even when they want to over tax us and set up government entitlements.

Where scripture is concerned it never suggests Christians should support taking from one to give to another or that we should support government entitlement programs. And no where in scripture does it say others should tell us what to do with money we earned.

crowcamp

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #221 on: Fri Dec 24, 2010 - 08:23:02 »
Responding to the last three posts:

If either of you have followed my posts, you know I have stated many, many times that love cannot be mandated, legislated, or imposed. By Christ's teaching, government should be so minimal in our lives as to be nearly a nonissue. It is not for the rich to have the care of the poor imposed on them, it is for each person to find within themselves the charity He teaches. By our fruits He will know us- or not know us at all.  And that, as they say, is the bottom line. We either are with Him or we are not.

And He will judge accordingly.

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #222 on: Fri Dec 24, 2010 - 09:10:19 »
And no where in scripture does it say others should tell us what to do with money we earned.-revmitchell

By His commandments, He tells us. He is the "other". So yes, scripture does tell us what to do with money earned. Actually, it tells us what to do with the life given. Money is simply a part of that life.

Offline tennman

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #223 on: Fri Dec 24, 2010 - 09:24:30 »
The light came on that the only reason to seek wealth is for the benefit of others.

The benefit of politicians of course. They need our money so bad.  ::aloneinclearlogic::

Obviously God messed up when he "blessed" Solomon with wealth. Proverbs 10:22 says, "The blessing of the Lord brings wealth, without painful toil for it."

In Proverbs we're also told that, "A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children" (13:22). In order to leave an inheritance, not just to our own children, but to our children's children requires work, discipline, investing, planning and saving up our money!

I'm not foolish enough to equate paying taxes with helping the poor. I pay too much attention to how the government wastes our tax dollars to fall for that. But that's what liberals preach and politicians promise to make tax increases more palatable. But they're just a bunch of con men. The Bible doesn't tell us to waste our  money. We're told to be good stewards and even to make sure that we aren't giving money to lazy people who won't work. Consider that the next time you suggest we should all just toss our money up and be poor in order to help the poor.

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #224 on: Fri Dec 24, 2010 - 09:39:06 »
I'm not foolish enough to equate paying taxes with helping the poor-tennman

In total agreement. Allowing government to dictate the course of charity is a foolish waste. By His commandments, loving one another should have nothing to do with government or the imposing of taxes. Charity is a reflection of love for our Lord and love for our neighbor, not wasteful legislated mandates.

Offline revmitchell

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #225 on: Fri Dec 24, 2010 - 10:23:26 »
And no where in scripture does it say others should tell us what to do with money we earned.-revmitchell

By His commandments, He tells us. He is the "other". So yes, scripture does tell us what to do with money earned. Actually, it tells us what to do with the life given. Money is simply a part of that life.


Your circular reasoning is not helpful to the discussion

crowcamp

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #226 on: Fri Dec 24, 2010 - 13:12:47 »
And no where in scripture does it say others should tell us what to do with money we earned.-revmitchell

By His commandments, He tells us. He is the "other". So yes, scripture does tell us what to do with money earned. Actually, it tells us what to do with the life given. Money is simply a part of that life.


Your circular reasoning is not helpful to the discussion

Circular reasoning?

crowcamp

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #227 on: Fri Dec 24, 2010 - 13:21:30 »
Okay, I found this definition of circular reasoning.

Circular reasoning is an attempt to support a statement by simply repeating the statement in different or stronger terms.  In this fallacy, the reason given is nothing more than a restatement of the conclusion that poses as the reason for the conclusion.  To say, “You should exercise because it’s good for you

Offline Ben

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #228 on: Sat Jan 22, 2011 - 12:01:34 »

(Data from the IRS)


So I glean from the above that 45.64% of the wealthiest people in the USA pay absolutely NO income tax, and that 34.16% of the top 10% pay no income tax.  Lastly 3.46% of the rest of us that pay no taxes.  That means the rich can hire people to figure out how not to pay any taxes unlike the rest of us.

According to CBS News 43.4% of all US taxpayers pay ABSOLUTELY NO INCOME TAX!

Ben

bookcase

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #229 on: Wed Mar 16, 2011 - 20:50:21 »
I would hope that none of us pay taxes because we feel some biblical command to do so.  Rather, I pay taxes not because I recognize or respect the authority of our supposed "leaders" and the country I live in but rather if I don't I'll loose everything-  my house, my car and possibly my life.  It's like this;  I give this govt. some money to get them out of my hair so I can keep a bigger portion for myself.  I pay the thief so I can keep my life and my property while knowing full well they use none of the money for anything that's good. 

While we're on the topic so taxation.  The Flat Tax isn't flat and the Fair Tax isn't fair.

The Flat tax notion suggests that individuals will pay a certain percentage of their income to THE MAN.  Let's, for this example, set it at 10%.  So if I make 100,000 bucks in 1 year I have to give up $10,000.  If you make 20,000 dollars you have to $2,000.  We both pay a different amount of money so it's not flat.

The Fair tax is a tax on existence- if you want to live you have to pay a tax to do it.  You buy food- it's taxed, you buy fuel....it's taxed.

So, both the Fair Tax and Flat Tax are sinful.

Also, any church that's 501c3 (most) is a government run church.  The minister can not influence elections so he's gagged by the IRS.  So much for working for God and proclaiming His word without state interference.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #230 on: Wed Mar 16, 2011 - 21:16:23 »

(Data from the IRS)


So I glean from the above that 45.64% of the wealthiest people in the USA pay absolutely NO income tax, and that 34.16% of the top 10% pay no income tax.  Lastly 3.46% of the rest of us that pay no taxes.  That means the rich can hire people to figure out how not to pay any taxes unlike the rest of us.



What are you talking about? The graphs show exactly the opposite of what you said.
« Last Edit: Wed Mar 16, 2011 - 21:24:08 by Jaime »

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #231 on: Wed Mar 16, 2011 - 21:19:46 »
The Flat tax notion suggests that individuals will pay a certain percentage of their income to THE MAN.  Let's, for this example, set it at 10%.  So if I make 100,000 bucks in 1 year I have to give up $10,000.  If you make 20,000 dollars you have to $2,000.  We both pay a different amount of money so it's not flat.

Yes, it's flat because both are paying the same rate.

Quote
The Fair tax is a tax on existence- if you want to live you have to pay a tax to do it.  You buy food- it's taxed, you buy fuel....it's taxed.

Under the Fair Tax each household would get a certain amount of money each month representing what the tax would be on up to a certain amount of income spent on just existing.  It would serve to penalize those who have saved anything (one of the reasons I don't like it), would penalize illegal aliens (one of the reasons I like it), and would cause a boom-bust in the economy as folks emptied their savings to stock up before it kicks in and then go a long time without spending anything.

Quote
Also, any church that's 501c3 (most) is a government run church.  The minister can not influence elections so he's gagged by the IRS.  So much for working for God and proclaiming His word without state interference.

Well, I don't have a problem with organizations that benefit from not being taxed by politicians not being able to influence which politicians get power.  I'm having trouble finding it, but could you show me where Peter, Paul or any other apostle gave us voting advice?

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #232 on: Wed Mar 16, 2011 - 21:23:01 »
What are you talking about? The graphs show exactly the opposite of what you said.

Don't ever let that dude cut a cake.  Someone would probably get stabbed in the chest.

bookcase

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #233 on: Thu Mar 17, 2011 - 07:45:04 »
With the graduated income tax the percentages will always favor  a certain income level.  

Frankly, I don't know whether those charts are correct.   Just because someone puts up a pie chart that's supposedly from the IRS doesn't mean it's correct.  Even if the percentages are correct it's a perfect example of "unjust weights and measures" which is forbidden in the Bible.

The Founders of this country rebelled against a 2 cent tax on paper goods and look where we are today!  We have a strong centralized govt. that controls every aspect of our lives.  The Founders never had that in mind and were clearly in favor of a small Federal govt.

The Federal Govt. can only be big and intrusive to the extent it receives massive amounts of "tribute" from the citizens.  If you starve it of it's food (money) it shrinks and be greatly reduced.  Of course the unConstitutional Federal Reserve loans the govt. money it doesn't have and the US (and others dumb enough to buy Treasury Bonds or US "savings" bonds) citizens pay it all back from their labor.

As Paul says in Romans 13- "Their is no power but of God".  A government that doesn't rule according to God's law is no legitimate power and is certainly not from God.

We've been a socialist country for years so don't blame O'Bama (who I just found out isn't Irish).  Blame all of those that want YOU to pay for THEIR benefits. For example- Social Security has been broke for years.....there are only I.O.U's in it...and what business has the govt. in forcing you to pay money into a Ponzi scheme?

In the Old Testament God commanded that men should be chosen for Judges that wouldn't lie, hated a bribe and wouldn't pervert judgment.  We probably have none of those kind of men in this country in positions of public servants...except for Ron Paul.


larry2

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #234 on: Thu Mar 17, 2011 - 08:35:35 »

They have finally realized my worth to this country, or at least where I live. I paid my yearly property taxes through the mail around a month ago, asked for a receipt, and instead received a tax refund check for the entire amount yesterday. I can now sing Money, Money, M O N E Y e e.

Wait, could they have made a mistake? Surely not, our school district only has a  thirty million shortfall, and our credit is still good isn't it? Spend, spend spend.
 ::lookaround::

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #235 on: Thu Mar 17, 2011 - 09:52:41 »
Of course the unConstitutional Federal Reserve loans the govt. money it doesn't have and the US (and others dumb enough to buy Treasury Bonds or US "savings" bonds) citizens pay it all back from their labor.

The federal reserve owns a small portion of the national debt and well over 90% of the interest it collects on the portion it owns is paid to the US Treasury.  Of course, it serves the interests of the politicians, as well as the voters who send them there, for folks to not understand it. 

Quote
We've been a socialist country for years so don't blame O'Bama (who I just found out isn't Irish).

rofl

He is on St. Paddy's Day.

Quote
Blame all of those that want YOU to pay for THEIR benefits.

We have found the enemy and he is us.

Quote
For example- Social Security has been broke for years.....there are only I.O.U's in it...and what business has the govt. in forcing you to pay money into a Ponzi scheme?

Of course there's only IOUs in it.  What else could it be?  Have you fallen for Algore's Social Security lockbox hoax?  Social Security taxes are paid in.  After all the benefits are paid out, if there is money left over, just what do you propose to be done with it?   

Quote
In the Old Testament God commanded that men should be chosen for Judges that wouldn't lie, hated a bribe and wouldn't pervert judgment.  We probably have none of those kind of men in this country in positions of public servants...except for Ron Paul.

He's better than most but he is mistaken about a few things, as well.



bookcase

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #236 on: Thu Mar 17, 2011 - 12:39:00 »
No, the interest goes to the Federal Reserve.

Also, what issues do you disagree with Ron Paul about?

Offline Jaime

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #237 on: Thu Mar 17, 2011 - 12:47:09 »
If Ron Paul had a more aggressive view of terrorism and didn't think us standing shoulder to shoulder on our shores is enough, then I would be his biggest supporter. We MUST be pre-emptive, aggressive and relentless in the war on terror. Super expensive and unavoidable. We must play with the hand we are dealt, and his talking about our foreign policy over the last 50 years got us in this position, is probably right, but we can't repack Pandora's box. It is what it is, and we must fight the terrorists as I said, pre-emptively, aggressively, and relentlessly. A stance of shoulda, woulda, coulda done this or that over the last 50 years is useless and a waste to even type the words. But other than that, Ron Paul is a swell guy!

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #238 on: Thu Mar 17, 2011 - 13:22:26 »
No, the interest goes to the Federal Reserve.

Also, what issues do you disagree with Ron Paul about?


Well over 90% of the interest that goes to the Federal Reserve for the part of the debt it gets is paid back to the US Treasury.  I'll leave it to you to look it up.

Well, nevermind that, here's the 2009 audit report of the Federal Reserve.

Offline bayou boy

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #239 on: Thu Mar 17, 2011 - 15:56:24 »
We shouldn't have an inheritance tax.That is money that has been allready taxed.Dad and mom bust their butts all their lives to give their children a better life and the government thinks they are entitled to half of it.There are many people that had to sell off part of their farms because they couldn't afford the inheritance tax.

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #240 on: Thu Mar 17, 2011 - 16:08:57 »
We've have learned that the reason we were attacked was because of our failed foreign policy of sticking our nose in every other countries business.  Bin Laden made that quite clear.  Remember him?  He's the guy we're in Afghanistan trying to get.  He worked for us backed in the 1980's. 

Remember him?  The govt. never talks about him anymore.

The war on terror is more like a war on us.  America has devolved into a police state with ever increasing infringements on freedom.  The govt. keeps you in a state of fear so it can further control us.  There is no terror threat- it's all made up.  Just like General Butler wrote in his book "War is a racket" so the war on terror is a racket.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #241 on: Thu Mar 17, 2011 - 16:12:08 »
Let me guess, American authorities took down the twin towers with controlled implosions. The airplanes were just holograms?

Us withdrawing into a cocoon is not going to undo the past foreign policy. The past cannot be undone. We must deal with the paradigm we have regardless of the reason for the paradigm.

No the war on terror is very real, and will last decades even if by some fluke Ron Paul is elected President someday.

And Bin Laden is not the entirety of the enemy. It is between 5 ad 10 percent of the Muslim population of the world. Killing or capturing Bin Laden would be nice, but not the end of the war by any stretch.

No matter what we do presently, they are at war with us. We can engage or not. Not engaging will not make us their buddies.
« Last Edit: Thu Mar 17, 2011 - 16:20:06 by Jaime »

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #242 on: Thu Mar 17, 2011 - 17:21:40 »
Yeah, the bottom line is that we were attacked because we aren't controlled by Islam.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #243 on: Thu Mar 17, 2011 - 18:47:09 »
Nick, it appears we attacked ourselves.

Offline Akaroa

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #244 on: Sun Jan 29, 2012 - 15:28:43 »
No matter what we do presently, they are at war with us. We can engage or not. Not engaging will not make us their buddies.
... said Jesus to the crowd gathered on the Mount of Olives.