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Author Topic: Who Pays Taxes in America?  (Read 18232 times)
Mere Nick
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« Reply #60 on: January 29, 2008, 08:27:41 AM »

'Cause, like, everyone knows honest labor for an honest buck is just The Man taking advantage of the downtrodden.

While I was sitting there, wondering if I was winning or losing, some dude came in and asked one of the owners to be put in the lineup.  Either he didn't have a job or didn't like the one he had.  Either way, he seemed to think getting a gig there would be a win.
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taller, better looking and smarter . . .

They turned me loose from the nervous hospital.  Said I was well.  Mmm hmm.

Suffering for your beliefs is called faithfulness, making others suffer for your beliefs is called being a jerk.

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« Reply #61 on: February 01, 2008, 09:38:07 PM »

Oh the poor misled fool! He thinks he should work for a living.  **sigh**
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« Reply #61 on: February 01, 2008, 09:38:07 PM »

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Jimmy
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« Reply #62 on: March 17, 2008, 08:21:29 AM »

The American dream is not a myth.  I am living it.  Rags to riches still happens in the USA the greatest nation on earth.
You miss the point. If there are winners, there must be losers. Your American dream was coming true is at the expense of someone else, actually probably lots of other people. I am not saying that you can't get ahead in America. I am saying that you get ahead on the backs of someone else.

It is easy to create contrasts and extremes. If you create conditions ripe for exploitation then you should not be surprised when exploitation occurs. That is what America is about.

The myth of the Americans dream is that America produces wealth. In reality, it just redistributes wealth, and it does it unfairly. It goes to where the wealth is and takes it. It is about pillaging the environment and taking from others, not producing. The country was taken, by force. Repeatedly and systematically. From the Indians. From the Mexicans. Slavery was used to leverage advantage. Industrial wealth was created through child labor, sweatshops, and lack of concern for the safety and welfare of others. Now we are more careful and do our exploitation offshore, but it is still the same thing and the beneficiaries are the same. We have replaced those jobs with low wage service jobs domestically. Whatever, scenario you care to look at it is the same thing.

There is a cost to this wealth. America is a study in contrasts. For every wealthy person there are dozens of people living in poverty. We blame to poor for their lot. It is there fault that they live that way. They too could be like me if only they had my ... But that is the unspoken lie. Not everyone can be rich. If everyone was rich then we wouldn't be rich, would we? Wealth requires that others live in poverty. It is just a question of who gets the dirty end of the stick. That is the American dream. Do it to someone else or you will have it done to you.

Jesus had a heart for the poor, for widows, and for the sick. He asked that we have the same concern. How can a rich Christian live with his wealth and faith? It is a challenge, like a camel fitting through the eye of a needle. Remember? James said:

1Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. 2Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.[a] 6You have condemned and murdered innocent men, who were not opposing you. (James 5)

We are all rich, by the standards of the world. Even the poorest of us is rich compared to the lot of someone living in poverty in Africa or Asia. That is the cost of our wealth. Rich nation exploits poor nation, just as a rich person exploits a poor person. We can close our eyes to what is happening around us, but that does not change the circumstances.

There is a great danger in trying to justify our wealth. There is great danger in watching our money grow while others starve. We can grow hard hearted because we see the poor and do not want to be like them. We fear losing our wealth so we hold onto it more tightly. We justify the indefensible, so that we can go on living as if nothing has changed. But something has changed. We will all stand before God in judgment someday.

I am a professional. I live a comfortable, privileged life in a clean, secure and prosperous country. I came from working class parents, educated myself and got ahead. I have paid lots in taxes over the years, but have never resented it. In fact, like Warren Buffett, I think that my taxes should be higher. I think that others deserve a break. Still, I don't think that this gets me off the hook with God.

I feel helpless in face of a monumental problem. The gap between rich and poor has been widening for decades now. The middle class is a myth. People live in middle class comfort and a great deal of debt. Both parents now work to make ends meet. We are guilty of living too high, but that is another story.

Middle class workers are the new serfs. They are being bombarded with advertising by corporations who want you to buy everything under the sun, so that they can get rich. People are told to consume and they do. But they live in servitude, not to lords of the medieval era, but to banks. They are on a treadmill and they must always do more to get less. People don't have to live this way, but this is what the economy is built around, consumption. If they stop consuming everyone loses. Or do they?

Is there an alternative? Have we built a house of cards that is going to come crashing down? The Bible says that it will all end some day. As James said, what good will our wealth be then? Much of what we do is wasted effort. Living a comfortable life now will only come back to bite us in the end.

By helping others we help ourselves. By giving away some of what we have, we can make a difference. By creating a level playing field we can do away with privilege and sloth. It doesn't have to be painful, but it should be. Jesus told us that giving from our surplus is not the same as giving something of value.

What we don't need is apologists for exploitation of the poor. I can't see how any Christian in good conscience can do this. I am a voice in the wilderness, I know. I am a minority, especially as long as people hold onto myths, like the American dream.

Blessings,
Dunamite

What a bunch of socialistic crap.  Why is it that these people think that giving someone a job so that they can take care of themselves is exploitation?
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« Reply #63 on: April 24, 2008, 12:23:20 PM »

Because socialists basically are not against people working.....just as long as it's not them. They want YOU to work to pay them not working because if they did work to earn a living that would just be...exploitation. And don't you dare think about joining with other people to earn money because that would be an EEEEEEVIL corporation. And if that EEEEEEEVIL corporation offered someone money to do some work that is exploitation.

 I'm surrounded by idiots

It really is immature isn't it? But Barack Obama sure seems to want socialism.

ATTENTION SOCIALISTS! There are other countries on this planet who have socialistic systems. Feel free to go to them if you don't like it here. Just watch out for the people floating on wooden doors risking their life to make it here to the land of the free.
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« Reply #63 on: April 24, 2008, 12:23:20 PM »

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Frankie
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« Reply #64 on: July 03, 2008, 07:53:53 PM »

The original question was "Who pays taxes in America". The very bottom line answer t that questions is simple:

Individual American citizens pay all the taxes the government collects.

Any questions?
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« Reply #65 on: July 09, 2008, 09:07:02 PM »


Source: SOI Bulletin, Statistics of Income Division, Table 6. Zero tax liability figures from The Tax Foundation, Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data, Fiscal Fact No. 104.
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« Reply #65 on: July 09, 2008, 09:07:02 PM »

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Frankie
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« Reply #66 on: July 13, 2008, 01:59:47 PM »

...and that diagram only shows who is paying "Income tax'. The high wage earners are also paying the lions share of property taxes, sales tax, and other consumption taxes, etc.

If everyone is so worried about who pays what taxes, might I recommend the "Fair Tax". It eliminates all other taxes, including taxes embedded in everything we buy (which accounts for approx. 22-23% of a product's selling price, before sales tax is added in.
It eliminates the tax on the essentials of life (food and clothing), and allow everyone to take home their gross earnings.

The Fair Tax is essentially a national sales tax, and is fixed at 22%. The only exemptions as stated above are food and clothing. No tax on either. Also, the Fair Tax is only assessed on NEW products. Meaning no taxes on used items from toys to houses.

For me, the biggest plus was the elimination of the IRS as a government entity!!!! Clapping up high

Being a "consumption tax". The only thing you pay taxes on is what you buy. There is an exemption for low wage earners. That's it.

While Liberals always try to talk down the "Fair Tax", all the arguments they've used so far have been fictitious, deliberately misleading, wrong, or out and out lies. So much so that the authors of the Fair Tax Book, Neil Boortz and John Linder have written a second book on the idea called "The Fair Tax: Answering the Critics". It address each and every comment  made against the Fair Tax by it detractors. 

Even if your mind is closed to anything other than Liberal ideas, you might like to read the "Fair Tax Book" and "Answering the Critics" before make up your mind against it.

I've read it, and the idea seems to be the most fair and equitable solution to taxation in America, that I've seen. 
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The old Democratic Credo:
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The new Democratic Credo:
"Duh... The government's gonna take care of everything"
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« Reply #67 on: July 14, 2008, 09:29:03 PM »

I wonder what income range corresponds with Admins chart. In other words, what income range makes up the top 1 percent of income earners? That would help show why middle class tax cuts alone will not spur as much economic growth.
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« Reply #68 on: July 19, 2008, 09:43:08 AM »

honest labor for an honest buck is just The Man taking advantage of the downtrodden.

Confused ?  What would you suggest as an alternative model?
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« Reply #69 on: July 20, 2008, 08:38:28 AM »

When the top 1% of the population controls more of the nation's wealth than the bottom 90%, you cease to have a functioning democracy.
I think you're missing something very important here, jgarden:

It's the richest 1% that create the wealth.  They're the ones that build the factories and build the stores that gives us all jobs and stuff to buy.

And when they invest those billions, are they not entitled to profit?  What kind of system would you propose as an alternative?   I don't know, what do you think?
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« Reply #69 on: July 20, 2008, 08:38:28 AM »

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« Reply #70 on: July 20, 2008, 08:42:11 AM »

I don't think the point of Jesus encounter with the rich young ruler was that wealthy individuals and nations are much more accountable to God.  His point is that we can't trust on our wealth or on "what we do" to get through the eye of the needle. 

Wow, spurly, very impressive   Tipping hat
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Frankie
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« Reply #71 on: August 21, 2008, 07:08:43 PM »

The reality is, wealth doesn't make a Christian, any less a Christian. That is only true in the mind of those who participate in the teaching, or practice of class envy.

Granted there are many wealthy people who are greedy, but I doubt they were every truly "Christians" to begin with.

There are also many who call themselves Christian, and bemoan those who have worked for their fortune. It's a two way street. 

I've been broke, and I've been comfortable, believe me, comfortable is better. Being comfortable doesn't necessarily mean you lose your Christianity. It can mean that you have much to be thankful for.



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The old Democratic Credo:
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"Duh... The government's gonna take care of everything"
Mere Nick
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« Reply #72 on: August 21, 2008, 08:36:54 PM »


Granted there are many wealthy people who are greedy . . .

It seems to me the folks that are wealthy got that way by serving their fellow man better than a competitor.   I know there are quite a few folks out there who are so tight that when they shuffle off this mortal coil the undertaker will have to slice their butt with a razor blade so their eyes will close, but they don't seem to congregate in one area along the wealth continuum.
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taller, better looking and smarter . . .

They turned me loose from the nervous hospital.  Said I was well.  Mmm hmm.

Suffering for your beliefs is called faithfulness, making others suffer for your beliefs is called being a jerk.

His cross, like the ark in the wilderness, is the center around which his people are to encamp; so that they cannot separate into factions, or withdraw from each other, without retiring at the same time from the presence of the cross.
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« Reply #72 on: August 21, 2008, 08:36:54 PM »

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« Reply #73 on: August 25, 2008, 10:38:13 PM »


My solution to the problem:

Flat-tax @ 5% across the board with draconian enforcement. NO ONE escapes paying this tax as the amount will be put into their special tax account as they earn dollars.

Tax evaders @ less than 1000k -- heavily censured.
Tax evaders @ 1000k level -- shot at a firing line.
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« Reply #74 on: September 28, 2008, 11:00:47 AM »

I have no problem with Income Tax because I usually end up not owing any.  But the Social Security Tax really bugs me.  I should be able to opt-out of it because I will never collect any of it and I have no eligible dependents.  I need that %15.x to live on.
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