GCM Home | Your Posts | Rules | DONATE | Bookstore | RSS | Facebook | Twitter | FAQs


Author Topic: Who Pays Taxes in America?  (Read 52153 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline stevehut

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3769
  • Manna: 70
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #70 on: Sun Jul 20, 2008 - 08:42:11 »
I don't think the point of Jesus encounter with the rich young ruler was that wealthy individuals and nations are much more accountable to God.  His point is that we can't trust on our wealth or on "what we do" to get through the eye of the needle. 

Wow, spurly, very impressive   ::tippinghat::

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #70 on: Sun Jul 20, 2008 - 08:42:11 »

Offline Frankie

  • Concerned American
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 346
  • Manna: 36
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #71 on: Thu Aug 21, 2008 - 19:08:43 »
The reality is, wealth doesn't make a Christian, any less a Christian. That is only true in the mind of those who participate in the teaching, or practice of class envy.

Granted there are many wealthy people who are greedy, but I doubt they were every truly "Christians" to begin with.

There are also many who call themselves Christian, and bemoan those who have worked for their fortune. It's a two way street. 

I've been broke, and I've been comfortable, believe me, comfortable is better. Being comfortable doesn't necessarily mean you lose your Christianity. It can mean that you have much to be thankful for.




Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #71 on: Thu Aug 21, 2008 - 19:08:43 »

Offline Mere Nick

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12641
  • Manna: 307
  • Gender: Male
  • Reckon you could make me some biscuits?
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #72 on: Thu Aug 21, 2008 - 20:36:54 »

Granted there are many wealthy people who are greedy . . .

It seems to me the folks that are wealthy got that way by serving their fellow man better than a competitor.   I know there are quite a few folks out there who are so tight that when they shuffle off this mortal coil the undertaker will have to slice their butt with a razor blade so their eyes will close, but they don't seem to congregate in one area along the wealth continuum.

Offline StarCannon

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
  • Manna: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #73 on: Mon Aug 25, 2008 - 22:38:13 »

My solution to the problem:

Flat-tax @ 5% across the board with draconian enforcement. NO ONE escapes paying this tax as the amount will be put into their special tax account as they earn dollars.

Tax evaders @ less than 1000k -- heavily censured.
Tax evaders @ 1000k level -- shot at a firing line.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #73 on: Mon Aug 25, 2008 - 22:38:13 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline OneLung

  • Anti-Extremist
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3579
  • Manna: 120
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #74 on: Sun Sep 28, 2008 - 11:00:47 »
I have no problem with Income Tax because I usually end up not owing any.  But the Social Security Tax really bugs me.  I should be able to opt-out of it because I will never collect any of it and I have no eligible dependents.  I need that %15.x to live on.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #74 on: Sun Sep 28, 2008 - 11:00:47 »



Offline OkiMar

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2581
  • Manna: 83
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #75 on: Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 20:10:39 »

(Data from the IRS)
Everyone should pay tax. Everyone should contribute. I am in favor of a national sales tax on everything from gum to real estate.

sanctusivo

  • Guest
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #76 on: Thu Oct 09, 2008 - 06:06:00 »
Everyone should pay tax. Everyone should contribute. I am in favor of a national sales tax on everything from gum to real estate.
Everyone already does, son, at least up to $97,500 in earned income.

This tunnel-vision preoccupation by some with income tax ignores the fact that everyone in the U.S. pays payroll tax on earned income, the vast majority of which pay tax on each and every earned dollar.

Offline Mere Nick

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12641
  • Manna: 307
  • Gender: Male
  • Reckon you could make me some biscuits?
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #77 on: Fri Oct 10, 2008 - 08:37:12 »
But not always as much as one sees in the FICA/Medicare portion when one considers the EIC.

Offline fanuvmxpx

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3879
  • Manna: 84
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #78 on: Sat Nov 01, 2008 - 02:24:32 »
What's wrong with wanting a tax refund on your welfare & food stamp income? hey, it got them a house for like 4 years and destroyed our economy.

Lou

  • Guest
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #79 on: Thu Nov 06, 2008 - 09:40:32 »
Conservatives believe that taxes are for raising revenue.  Liberals believe that taxes are for spreading the wealth around.  That's why they oppose tax cuts so much.  They believe it is justice to take one person's income and give it to another.  If one person keeps his wages another person can't have it.

A parallel issue is how little people who "spread the wealth" support real charity.  Take the Obamas and Bidens.  The Obamas earned about $1,200,000 between 2000-04 but gave less than 1% to charity.  The Bidens have earned over $200,000 for many years, but have never given as much as $1,000 in any year.  We could call them Ebenezer Scrooge and Jacob Marley.

Offline Dufrdan

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 530
  • Manna: 20
  • Gender: Male
  • Happiness is: getting the ball onto the green.
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #80 on: Thu Nov 06, 2008 - 11:27:08 »
One of the biggest misconceptions within the electorate is that businesses pay taxes.  Businesses do NOT pay taxes -- their customers pay the tax thru increased prices/fees charged by business.

While I'm not so naive to think that if all government taxes on business were suddenly lifted that prices/fees would be reduced, I do know that when those taxes are increased, the prices/fees DO increase.

Dan

Offline fanuvmxpx

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3879
  • Manna: 84
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #81 on: Thu Nov 06, 2008 - 12:24:32 »
One of the biggest misconceptions within the electorate is that businesses pay taxes.  Businesses do NOT pay taxes -- their customers pay the tax thru increased prices/fees charged by business.

While I'm not so naive to think that if all government taxes on business were suddenly lifted that prices/fees would be reduced, I do know that when those taxes are increased, the prices/fees DO increase.

Dan

My business pays taxes every year. And yes, accounting wise you can pass those tax increases onto employees and/or consumers, but your still taxed. The business isn't forced to charge more to consumers, they just want to so they can keep the same level of retained earnings. In fact, principals of the business could even pay themselves less to compensate for the losses (Wallstreet you listening?).

I don't like Obama's tax plan either, just pointing stuff out.

Offline Dufrdan

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 530
  • Manna: 20
  • Gender: Male
  • Happiness is: getting the ball onto the green.
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #82 on: Thu Nov 06, 2008 - 12:54:38 »
fanuvfxpx wrote:  My business pays taxes every year. And yes, accounting wise you can pass those tax increases onto employees and/or consumers, but your still taxed. The business isn't forced to charge more to consumers, they just want to so they can keep the same level of retained earnings. In fact, principals of the business could even pay themselves less to compensate for the losses (Wallstreet you listening?).

Dan responds:  If your taxes were to suddenly increaso by 50% I expect your prices would increase the same 50% to maintain the same profit margin.  True?

Offline fanuvmxpx

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3879
  • Manna: 84
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #83 on: Thu Nov 06, 2008 - 14:30:51 »
Dan responds:  If your taxes were to suddenly increaso by 50% I expect your prices would increase the same 50% to maintain the same profit margin.  True?
I just said that: "The business isn't forced to charge more to consumers, they just want to so they can keep the same level of retained earnings". A tax increase hits all business hard, but so do greedy boards who refuse to take lower salaries & bonuses when their companies are fiscally failing. That's all I was saying.

Also, why would taxes increase by 50%? Collapsing an economy is not a good way to come out of a recession.

Offline Dufrdan

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 530
  • Manna: 20
  • Gender: Male
  • Happiness is: getting the ball onto the green.
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #84 on: Thu Nov 06, 2008 - 14:46:16 »
I just picked a number.

The bottom line holds:  business do not pay taxes, the consumer does.

Offline fanuvmxpx

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3879
  • Manna: 84
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #85 on: Thu Nov 06, 2008 - 19:04:37 »
I just picked a number. The bottom line holds:  business do not pay taxes, the consumer does.

Sad, but true

Offline Fizzy

  • BIG FIZZY
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
  • Manna: 8
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #86 on: Mon Dec 01, 2008 - 08:10:01 »
Small businesses have the option of absorbing taxes, or passing them on in the form of increased pries/fees. I own two small business, and I pass on every bit of taxation placed on my companies to the customers.
Big business, however, ALWAYS passes on the cost of taxes as an operating cost.

True Story: Over the last 10 years, two of my competitors decided not to do so in an effort to keep their charges lower than mine. One of them now works for me, and the other one for another of my competitors.
Suffice to say that I did nothing to force them out of business. I was able to afford better, more experienced employees, more of them, and better, more efficient, equipment to get the job done quicker. Essentially, we charged the same price when you consider that I was able to accomplish the same work with fewer people in less time. We're also able to work more than one job at a time.

...and if you're going to use the "Christian" argument, might I add that the ex-competitor who now works for me has been earning more money (from the first year he started) with me, than he ever made on his own. He's a skilled technician, just not a very good businessman.

Small business people get a bad rep from so many, especially the Left. Small business owners, are risk takers. We gamble, usually with our own money, that we can make things work. We employ people who can not, or will not take that risk themselves. Small business are taxed heavily, receive fewer, if any, tax breaks from local, state and fed governments, and create about 70% of the new jobs in this country.
We are friends to our employees, we know their families by name, we know their problems. We help when we can. We allow them time off to pick up the kids from school, or to have a birthday party. We feel the pain they feel when there is a loss in their lives. We know what the pay check they receive means to them, and we do what we can to assure that there will be another pay check next week.
We make hundreds of decision everyday, and we know those decision can affect the lives of everyone associated with the company.
Small businesses, if they are to survive, cannot absorb tax increases all the time. We have no choice but to "Spread it around".
Has anyone asked why it's OK for Obama to say he want's to redistribute income by "Spreading it around", but it's not OK for a small business owner to say that he's going to pass his taxes on to the public in the form of price increases, in an effort to "Spread it around"?
After all, Socialism is Socialism, right?

When Obama, or any politician tells you that they are going to increase taxes on business, and the wealthy, understand that it will be coming out of your pocket in one way or another. It's been said over and over, it's been argued, and denied, but it's still true. Taxes collected by any government agency are paid by individual citizens.




Offline leeford

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 359
  • Manna: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #87 on: Sat Jan 10, 2009 - 22:04:14 »
Rush explains how liberals created a voting block of people who don't pay taxes: http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_010809/content/01125108.guest.html

Offline Arkstfan

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3308
  • Manna: 93
  • Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #88 on: Wed Jan 21, 2009 - 21:35:11 »
Small business owners pay a far greater share of taxes than "big business".

Small business doesn't hire enough people to qualify for the tax breaks a big business gets for a capital expansion creating enough jobs to qualify for that break.

Small business doesn't undertake projects big enough to qualify for property tax breaks when they buy or build a building.

Small business has a harder time negotiating a decent group rate to offer a good health package.

A few years ago an extremely large business was fighting for a cut in the corporate tax rate and they announced what they paid in taxes and it was widely agreed that was a heavy tax burden. What no one bothered to check was their honesty. The bulk of the taxes they paid, were sales taxes they collected from customers and merely mailed in keeping a small cut for their trouble. The customer paid the tax.

I saw similar fraudulent numbers during the capital gains tax debates. Numbers were being thrown around about how many people own stock. Left out of the equation was how much was in retirement and deferred comp accounts and not subject to capital gains because the gains were either tax free (Roth) or taxed as ordinary income (other accounts).

Offline jb728b

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 927
  • Manna: 51
  • Starfleet Chaplain: Section 31
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #89 on: Wed Feb 04, 2009 - 08:46:12 »
Who pays taxes hmmmm.  The Democrats often push to raise taxes and now I know why. Looking at many of the things going on in Washington this past week apparently THEY DON"T PAY THEIR OWN TAXES!  That being the case a huge tax increase wouldn't be a problem for them since they don't pay anyway.  Everyone in Washington should be audited.

Offline admin

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6952
  • Manna: 223
  • Gender: Male
  • Sheriff of these parts
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #90 on: Wed Feb 04, 2009 - 09:55:55 »
Ark, I just wanted to point out that a ROTH is not tax free. Taxes are already paid on that income before it's invested. So it's the opposite of a tax deferred investment like a 401K. But it's not tax free. Democrats wouldn't hear of not getting a piece of our earnings.

Offline Arkstfan

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3308
  • Manna: 93
  • Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #91 on: Wed Feb 04, 2009 - 10:44:03 »
Ark, I just wanted to point out that a ROTH is not tax free. Taxes are already paid on that income before it's invested. So it's the opposite of a tax deferred investment like a 401K. But it's not tax free. Democrats wouldn't hear of not getting a piece of our earnings.

Roth holdings are not taxed at distribution, therefore the capital gains tax rate is irrelevant to funds held within a Roth. Funds held in tax deferred accounts are taxed as ordinary income when distributed and again capital gains tax is irrelevant.

My point which apparently caused confusion, was that the capital gains tax cut was touted as helping X number of people who hold stock, but supporters counted among those to be helped, people holding stock in each form of account. They received zero benefit from the cut because of how gains in each are treated.

I certainly didn't mean to imply anything beyond pointing out the lies told in the political realm to get ones way.

profreewill

  • Guest
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #92 on: Tue Feb 17, 2009 - 09:17:07 »
If you have not read the fair tax book, it's essential.  We need to get rid of the IRS.  Fair seems so far from the thinking of our politicians.  They don't want fair, they want to punish the productive.

Offline Arkstfan

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3308
  • Manna: 93
  • Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #93 on: Tue Feb 17, 2009 - 11:40:27 »
If you have not read the fair tax book, it's essential.  We need to get rid of the IRS.  Fair seems so far from the thinking of our politicians.  They don't want fair, they want to punish the productive.

I don't think so.

What they want is to be fair, but then monkey with it in order to be more fair to those with more clout. We can't have a system where all are treated equal because that means the political contributions dry up if there aren't any favors to dole out.

Want to fix the country? Now is the time to do it because any tax code change will cause massive unintended consequences, might as well rip the band-aid off now.

#1. Constitutional amendment requiring all items in a bill be germane to the bill. No riders about taxes in the military appropriation. No museums or highways in a grant program for law enforcement. Make each proposal stand or fall on its own merit. Right now a congressman won't vote against a Chuck Berry museum because it is added to the Farm Bill.

#2. Value added tax, with a sliding scale rebate based on income.

profreewill

  • Guest
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #94 on: Tue Feb 17, 2009 - 12:36:35 »
If you have not read the fair tax book, it's essential.  We need to get rid of the IRS.  Fair seems so far from the thinking of our politicians.  They don't want fair, they want to punish the productive.

I don't think so.

What they want is to be fair, but then monkey with it in order to be more fair to those with more clout. We can't have a system where all are treated equal because that means the political contributions dry up if there aren't any favors to dole out.

Want to fix the country? Now is the time to do it because any tax code change will cause massive unintended consequences, might as well rip the band-aid off now.

#1. Constitutional amendment requiring all items in a bill be germane to the bill. No riders about taxes in the military appropriation. No museums or highways in a grant program for law enforcement. Make each proposal stand or fall on its own merit. Right now a congressman won't vote against a Chuck Berry museum because it is added to the Farm Bill.

#2. Value added tax, with a sliding scale rebate based on income.

Ark have you read the fair tax book? 

Offline Mere Nick

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12641
  • Manna: 307
  • Gender: Male
  • Reckon you could make me some biscuits?
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #95 on: Tue Feb 17, 2009 - 13:40:06 »

Roth holdings are not taxed at distribution, therefore the capital gains tax rate is irrelevant to funds held within a Roth.

That is a false statement.  Capital gains rates do impact the demand for stocks in general, therefore, the capital gains tax rate does impact the returns one would see from a Roth account invested in the stock market even though the distribution from a Roth are free of tax.

Quote
Funds held in tax deferred accounts are taxed as ordinary income when distributed and again capital gains tax is irrelevant.

A false statement, as explained above.

Quote
My point which apparently caused confusion, was that the capital gains tax cut was touted as helping X number of people who hold stock, but supporters counted among those to be helped, people holding stock in each form of account. They received zero benefit from the cut because of how gains in each are treated.

A false and misleading statement, as explained above.

Quote
I certainly didn't mean to imply anything beyond pointing out the lies told in the political realm to get ones way.

Indeed.

Offline Arkstfan

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3308
  • Manna: 93
  • Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #96 on: Tue Feb 17, 2009 - 14:40:06 »
Hang on, while the capital gains rate can have an impact on demand to invest in stock it is helpful to remember that pre-crash depending on who you believe 40% to 50% of stock was held in accounts not subject to capital gains taxation. Those who benefited from the capital gains tax cut (which I don't have a problem with, I have problem with the lie) gained far more from the creation of tax sheltered accounts bringing more money to the table than the capital gains cuts benefited those with the tax sheltered accounts.

The individual investor is far more likely to invest chasing the market while the 401k, 403b, and Roth flavor investors were plugging money into the market every week from payroll contributions (and matches) creating a more stable market and creating weekly demand for stock purchases.

While the capital gains tax rate would have some degree of influence on how willing the 50% to 60% invested that influence pales in comparison to the influence of the fundamentals (profitability, dividends, future revenue projections, balance sheet, etc).

The benefit of the increased demand through the capital gains cut was the trickliest of trickle down.

I suspect with the current fundamentals in the pot, we could slice the capital gains tax rate to say 5% and find only marginal benefit to the stock market.




profreewill

  • Guest
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #97 on: Tue Feb 17, 2009 - 16:34:09 »
Ark have you read the fair tax book?

Offline Mere Nick

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12641
  • Manna: 307
  • Gender: Male
  • Reckon you could make me some biscuits?
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #98 on: Wed Feb 18, 2009 - 06:30:43 »
Hang on, while the capital gains rate can have an impact on demand to invest in stock it is helpful to remember that pre-crash depending on who you believe 40% to 50% of stock was held in accounts not subject to capital gains taxation. Those who benefited from the capital gains tax cut (which I don't have a problem with, I have problem with the lie) gained far more from the creation of tax sheltered accounts bringing more money to the table than the capital gains cuts benefited those with the tax sheltered accounts.

You said
Quote
I saw similar fraudulent numbers during the capital gains tax debates. Numbers were being thrown around about how many people own stock. Left out of the equation was how much was in retirement and deferred comp accounts and not subject to capital gains because the gains were either tax free (Roth) or taxed as ordinary income (other accounts).

There is no lying going on.  Capital gains rates on any part of the market do influence the return on the entire market.


Quote
I suspect with the current fundamentals in the pot, we could slice the capital gains tax rate to say 5% and find only marginal benefit to the stock market.

Even a marginal benefit would greatly appreciated by everyone.  However, it could possibly have a greater benefit if the market saw that the current administration changed from its present course and instead adopted an economic policy of doing all it could to make the US a great country to invest in instead of worse.

profreewill

  • Guest
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #99 on: Tue Mar 24, 2009 - 22:18:32 »
Ark never really answered if he had read the fairtax book, it's a must read.

Offline OneLung

  • Anti-Extremist
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3579
  • Manna: 120
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #100 on: Thu Apr 02, 2009 - 13:03:18 »
It seems that every time we turn on the TV this last couple of months, another Democrat is admitting to owing back taxes. I guess it's just another clear indication of the Republican/Democrat philosophical divide. Republicans don't want to pay any NEW taxes and Democrats don't want to pay and OLD ones. :)

Offline Mere Nick

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12641
  • Manna: 307
  • Gender: Male
  • Reckon you could make me some biscuits?
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #101 on: Thu Apr 02, 2009 - 13:43:51 »
rofl

Offline soondead

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Manna: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #102 on: Tue Apr 07, 2009 - 13:27:04 »
I do.  Fortunately I have some perks from being in the ministry that lessen my tax burden.  (These perks would disappear with the so-called fair tax).

i have a proposal.
if you dont pay taxes you get no vote.
i think when the US started you had to be a property owner to vote.

Offline OneLung

  • Anti-Extremist
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3579
  • Manna: 120
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #103 on: Tue Apr 07, 2009 - 13:33:08 »
I do.  Fortunately I have some perks from being in the ministry that lessen my tax burden.  (These perks would disappear with the so-called fair tax).
i think when the US started you had to be a property owner to vote.

I think it should still be that way.  ::bueno::

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #104 on: Thu Apr 09, 2009 - 20:09:16 »
I have just gone through a few replies here and marvel at some of them. There is a popular catch phrase prevalent today that asks "What would Jesus do?" Asking myself this question, I wonder if Jesus complained in Luke Chapter 20 as He paid taxes to Caesar of a nation so much worse than America. "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and to God the things which are God's." And we are to follow Who?

In Jesus' name - larry2

 

     
anything