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Offline admin

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Who Pays Taxes in America?
« on: August 17, 2007, 09:33:49 AM »

(Data from the IRS)

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Who Pays Taxes in America?
« on: August 17, 2007, 09:33:49 AM »

Offline spurly

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2007, 09:36:07 AM »
I do.  Fortunately I have some perks from being in the ministry that lessen my tax burden.  (These perks would disappear with the so-called fair tax).

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2007, 09:36:07 AM »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2007, 09:27:19 PM »

(Data from the IRS)


I guess that's why tax cuts basically affect the people that pay taxes.  ::doh::

Offline admin

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2007, 12:33:27 PM »

(Data from the IRS)


I guess that's why tax cuts basically affect the people that pay taxes.  ::doh::


Shhh....don't offend the Democrats. They think only "the rich" pay taxes. Of course, based on John Kerry's math, if you make over 40,000 per year you are rich.

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2007, 12:33:27 PM »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline zoonance

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2007, 12:39:04 PM »
"I only wish I could pay more of their share.  Maybe after 2008, I will!"

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2007, 12:39:04 PM »



jgarden

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2007, 11:07:11 PM »
Quote
"The richest 1% of the population now owns almost 35% of all the private wealth in America, more than the bottom 90% of the population combined." - The Wealth Inequality Reader (edited by Dollars & Sense and United for a Fair Economy),   p. vii   

"The income of the 400 wealthiest taxpayers grew steadily in the years 1992 to 2000, while their tax burden plummeted." - Today's Headlines: (New York Times) Thursday, June 26, 2003 


  "The very idea of redistributing wealth can feel un-American in the land of Horatio Alger, until you look closely at how it's spread now. Half of us earn less than $30,000 a year, 90 percent less than $100,000. To get an idea of how we value our values, Howard Stern earns every 24 seconds what takes a cop or a teacher about a week to earn."
Time Magazine cover story - October 30, 2006
WEALTH = POWER = MORE WEALTH = MORE POWER ..........

When the top 1% of the population controls more of the nation's wealth than the bottom 90%, you cease to have a functioning democracy.

The "spread" between the very rich and the average citizen continues to grow, exposing the "American Dream" as an "American Myth." ::frustrated::

Offline Jaime

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2007, 06:44:58 AM »
The key comparison for the American dream is not among ourselves but how we compare to the rest of the world. The poorest among us in this country are blessed beyond a lot of the world's population. This is not a statement of our wisdom or hard work or even the American dream. It is a blessing of God, that someday we will not have. When we have only our own wits we will be just like the rest of the world.

jgarden

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2007, 04:52:44 PM »
The key comparison for the American dream is not among ourselves but how we compare to the rest of the world. The poorest among us in this country are blessed beyond a lot of the world's population. This is not a statement of our wisdom or hard work or even the American dream. It is a blessing of God, that someday we will not have. When we have only our own wits we will be just like the rest of the world.
1.  America is just the most recent example of a long line of great nations/empires that thought they were blessed by God(s).   

2.  Rome, Greece, ancient Egypt and more recently the British, French, Spanish and Austrian Empires all felt that they had been selected by God to rule over other nations.

3.  The American Dream is based on acquiring material success and power - somehing that would appear inconsistent with a religion that centers on an individual born in a manger and spending His life on earth ministering to the poor.

4. Based on Jesus' message to the Rich Young Ruler, wealth in the hands someone who lives a moral life, does good works and keeps the commandments is not enough to acquire salvation.

5. Christ's metaphor concerning the camel passing through the eye of the needle is not directed toward the poor.

6.  What passes in America as a blessing can actually be a curse since like the Rich Ruler,  wealthy individuals and nations are much more accountable in the eyes of God.

7. Whether poverty is relative and America's poor should be considered "blessed" as compared to the rest of the world misses the point - the Greatest Commandment is quite explicit when it directs us as individuals and as a nation to love our "neighbor" as ourselves. :eek:

Offline spurly

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2007, 06:32:32 PM »

The key comparison for the American dream is not among ourselves but how we compare to the rest of the world. The poorest among us in this country are blessed beyond a lot of the world's population. This is not a statement of our wisdom or hard work or even the American dream. It is a blessing of God, that someday we will not have. When we have only our own wits we will be just like the rest of the world.
1.  America is just the most recent example of a long line of great nations/empires that thought they were blessed by God(s).  

2.  Rome, Greece, ancient Egypt and more recently the British, French, Spanish and Austrian Empires all felt that they had been selected by God to rule over other nations.

3.  The American Dream is based on acquiring material success and power - somehing that would appear inconsistent with a religion that centers on an individual born in a manger and spending His life on earth ministering to the poor.

4. Based on Jesus' message to the Rich Young Ruler, wealth in the hands someone who lives a moral life, does good works and keeps the commandments is not enough to acquire salvation.

5. Christ's metaphor concerning the camel passing through the eye of the needle is not directed toward the poor.

6.  What passes in America as a blessing can actually be a curse since like the Rich Ruler,  wealthy individuals and nations are much more accountable in the eyes of God.


7. Whether poverty is relative and America's poor should be considered "blessed" as compared to the rest of the world misses the point - the Greatest Commandment is quite explicit when it directs us as individuals and as a nation to love our "neighbor" as ourselves. :eek:

 ::offtopic::

I don't think the point of Jesus encounter with the rich young ruler was that wealthy individuals and nations are much more accountable to God.  His point is that we can't trust on our wealth or on "what we do" to get through the eye of the needle.  He began with "what must I do to inherit eternal life.  We don't get inheritances based on what we do - our inheritance is based on who we are - adopted sons and daughters of God thorugh Jesus Christ.

We must count on God to do that is impossible - get us through the eye of the needle and into his presence.  We can't trust on our own ability to keep the commandments or our own resources to get us there.  "What is impossible with men, is possible with God."

 ::backontopic::

Offline Jimbob

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2007, 07:09:40 PM »

(Data from the IRS)


I guess that's why tax cuts basically affect the people that pay taxes.  ::doh::


Shhh....don't offend the Democrats. They think only "the rich" pay taxes. Of course, based on John Kerry's math, if you make over 40,000 per year you are rich.
That wouldn't even cover Kerry's dry cleaning tab for a year.

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2007, 07:54:06 PM »
It would appear self-evident that inherent in America's wealth and power is an increased ability do good or evil in this world.

With increased power and wealth comes additional responsibility, and as the world's only superpower, America and Americans will be held accountable for how they were used for the glory of God and the benefit of mankind.

America is also like the Rich Young Ruler whose wealth also places an additional barrier between itself and God - thus the "eye of the needle" reference.  :eek:








 








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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2007, 09:51:38 PM »
There's nothing sinful about money or having lots of it. In fact, when God told Solomon that He would give him anything he wanted and Solomon chose wisdom, God blessed with him with wisdom and other things--including money. So according to God, money--even lots and lots of it, can be a blessing. It's all about the heart. The "love" of money is the "root of all evil." Not money itself.

The reason the very wealthy in America keep making more money is because they leverage the money they have. There's nothing wrong with that. And secondly, just because the rich have a lot of money, it doesn't mean there's less for everyone else. No one digs a hole and buries their money. They put it in a bank and then the bank loans it to people or invests it. Or they use it to buy things that pay us all at our jobs. Or they invest it and those companies use the money to make more products which creates more jobs. Or they donate it. Or they start a business with it that provides jobs so other people can earn money. Or someone with a lot of money can do something that someone with an average income can't--like buy thousands of Bibles to send with a missionary to another part of the world. Or fund the mission trip entirely. Or make huge investments in cancer research.

Money is a dynamic thing. There are no "pieces of the pie." It's unlimited in a free-market society like ours.

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2007, 02:04:26 PM »
There's nothing sinful about money or having lots of it. In fact, when God told Solomon that He would give him anything he wanted and Solomon chose wisdom, God blessed with him with wisdom and other things--including money. So according to God, money--even lots and lots of it, can be a blessing. It's all about the heart. The "love" of money is the "root of all evil." Not money itself.
Your portrayal of Solomon as God's "POSTER BOY" to justify receiving wealth as a "blessing" is prophetic - because the animosity generated from his excesses led 10 of the 12 tribes of Israel to revolt, civil war and division of the Kingdom.
Quote
2 Chronicles 10 - Israel Rebels Against Rehoboam
 
1 Rehoboam went to Shechem, for all the Israelites had gone there to make him king. 2 When Jeroboam son of Nebat heard this (he was in Egypt, where he had fled from King Solomon), he returned from Egypt. 3 So they sent for Jeroboam, and he and all Israel went to Rehoboam and said to him: 4 "Your father (Solomon) put a heavy yoke on us, but now lighten the harsh labor and the heavy yoke he put on us, and we will serve you."
 5 Rehoboam answered, "Come back to me in three days." So the people went away.

6 Then King Rehoboam consulted the elders who had served his father Solomon during his lifetime. "How would you advise me to answer these people?" he asked.

 7 They replied, "If you will be kind to these people and please them and give them a favorable answer, they will always be your servants."


 8 But Rehoboam rejected the advice the elders gave him and consulted the young men who had grown up with him and were serving him. 9 He asked them, "What is your advice? How should we answer these people who say to me, 'Lighten the yoke your father put on us'?"

 10 The young men who had grown up with him replied, "Tell the people who have said to you, 'Your father put a heavy yoke on us, but make our yoke lighter'-tell them, 'My little finger is thicker than my father's waist. 11 My father laid on you a heavy yoke; I will make it even heavier. My father scourged you with whips; I will scourge you with scorpions.' "

 12 Three days later Jeroboam and all the people returned to Rehoboam, as the king had said, "Come back to me in three days." 13 The king answered them harshly. Rejecting the advice of the elders, 14 he followed the advice of the young men and said, "My father made your yoke heavy; I will make it even heavier. My father scourged you with whips; I will scourge you with scorpions." /b]15 So the king did not listen to the people, for this turn of events was from God, to fulfill the word the LORD had spoken to Jeroboam son of Nebat through Ahijah the Shilonite.

 16 When all Israel saw that the king refused to listen to them, they answered the king:
       "What share do we have in David,
       what part in Jesse's son?
       To your tents, O Israel!
       Look after your own house, O David!"
      So all the Israelites went home. 17 But as for the Israelites who were living in the towns of Judah, Rehoboam still ruled over them.

18 King Rehoboam sent out Adoniram, [a] who was in charge of forced labor, but the Israelites stoned him to death. King Rehoboam, however, managed to get into his chariot and escape to Jerusalem. 19 So Israel has been in rebellion against the house of David to this day.
Presumably God hadn't informed Solomon and Rehoboam about the economic advantages of leverage, investing, bank loans, unlimited money generated by a "free market society and "voodoo" economics.

Like the rest us, they lived in the real world of "limited" money where wealth was generated by "heavy yokes," "harsh labor" and "scourged by whips."  ::frustrated::




Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2007, 03:44:48 AM »
Solomon made his dough, primarily through trading.  However, it is good of jgarden to remind us of the great benefit of low taxes.

jgarden

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Re: Who Pays Taxes in America?
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2007, 05:26:11 AM »
Solomon made his dough, primarily through trading.  However, it is good of jgarden to remind us of the great benefit of low taxes.
Quote
LEVITICUS

13 The king (Solomon's successor) answered them (Isrealites)harshly. Rejecting the advice of the elders,

14 he followed the advice of the young men and said, "My father (Solomon)made your yoke heavy; I will make it even heavier. My father scourged you with whips; I will scourge you with scorpions."
Most of the trading Solomon ever did was for concubines and wives.

He ran Israel like one big "plantation" using his own people as "forced labor."