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Author Topic: Who Pays Taxes in America?  (Read 18211 times)
Mere Nick
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« Reply #105 on: April 09, 2009, 08:47:24 PM »

You're right, Larry.  If George Washington shows up on my front porch I'll give him a buck and a quarter.
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« Reply #106 on: April 25, 2009, 06:09:33 PM »

If you will learn the truth about taxes go to a free video like Google Video and watch (America; Freedom to Fascism by Aaron Russo). If you will learn the truth about Obama then watch (The Obama Deception). They both will open your eyes. Before you say I am a nut, watch the videos and learn the truth, if you refuse then what happens to this country can be laid at your feet.  
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 02:44:16 PM by leeford » Logged
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« Reply #106 on: April 25, 2009, 06:09:33 PM »

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« Reply #107 on: April 25, 2009, 09:49:15 PM »

I'm going to play devils-advocate on this one. I'm consider myself pretty conservative.  On Social Issues, I'm as conservative as you can get. I would vote for making the Bible the law of the land. That being said, I'm probably a little less conservative on economic issues. Just a little. But here is my argument about the "who pays the taxes" argument.
 
First, a lot of wealthy people have gotten their money by inheritance. I know, I know, they deserve to keep it. I just want to interject the thought that not all rich people are "hard working" or contribute more to our society than some poor guy on the street.  You could say they "got lucky".  I have a friend who met a girl who has rich parents. He hardly ever worked. I went to college, got my Masters and I'm living in a $1200 a month apartment and he's living on the beach in Malibu.  I'm not trying to start this "class warfare" stuff but realize that some people are just "lucky".  Maybe there should be something in the "system" that tries to equalize this.  We are all in this boat together.
 
Secondly, contributions are made to our country in other ways then just paying taxes.  For example, you take some poor kid who joins the military so he can pay for school.  Exactly what is his equivalence to someone who pays more taxes?  If money is returned to the people, don't you think he deserves to be taken into consideration?  Shouldn't some weight be given to his contribution? I mean, after all, our country wouldn't be here if not for guys (gals) like him (her). 
 
Of course, there are other contribution that the citizens of this country make. Like volunteering to help the poor.  What is that persons tax equivalence?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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« Reply #108 on: April 26, 2009, 06:47:16 PM »

First, a lot of wealthy people have gotten their money by inheritance. I know, I know, they deserve to keep it. I just want to interject the thought that not all rich people are "hard working" or contribute more to our society than some poor guy on the street.  You could say they "got lucky".  I have a friend who met a girl who has rich parents. He hardly ever worked. I went to college, got my Masters and I'm living in a $1200 a month apartment and he's living on the beach in Malibu.  I'm not trying to start this "class warfare" stuff but realize that some people are just "lucky".  Maybe there should be something in the "system" that tries to equalize this.  We are all in this boat together.
 


So you think there is something wrong with being "lucky"?  Why should the "system" need to equalize anything?  Instead of comparing you and your friend, let's look at the situations of Bob, Sam, and Tom.

Bob's parents aren't rich, but from the time he was born they scrimped and saved for his college education. By the time he was 18 they had saved enough to pay all of his expenses for 4 years at college. Bob was lucky, he didn't need to get a job to support himself or pay for his education.

Sam's parents are farmers, and they aren't rich either, but they didn't plan ahead, so very little was set aside for Sam's education. Luckily, Sam was chosen by the local farm association to receive a full scholarship to college. Sam didn't need to get a job either.

Tom's parents had always made good money, but they spent it as fast as it came in, so there was nothing set aside for Tom's education. Tom had to work 30 hours/week at Pizza Hut to pay for his room and board and also took out school loans which took him many years to repay after graduation.

All three graduated from college. All three married and had families that benefited from the education received. Neither Bob nor Sam worked to pay for their education, they were just "lucky". Should the "system" step in and "equalize" things here? Should the money saved for Bob and the scholarship provided to Sam be pooled and the money divided equally between the three of them? Should Bob and Sam be forced to pay off Tom's loans? That is what you're proposing, you know.

You say your friend has never had to work, he was "just lucky". Well I can guarantee you that somewhere up the line someone worked for that money. Just as Bob's parents worked hard so Bob wouldn't have to, someone in your friend's family worked hard to provide that money for their heirs. We are all affected by the choices of our ancestors. That's life. Learn to deal with it.
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« Reply #108 on: April 26, 2009, 06:47:16 PM »

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« Reply #109 on: April 26, 2009, 07:21:19 PM »


So you think there is something wrong with being "lucky"?  Why should the "system" need to equalize anything? 
...

Your analogy was a good one but you didn't answer my other question.  What is the tax equivalence of someone who is willing to give their life for this country?  Or the tax equivalence for volunteers who contribute at homeless shelters?  Should we toss them aside and say they don't matter just because they are poor?  The point I'm trying to make is that people pay a sort of tax that isn't necessarily monetary.  Should the country not give them a place at the table?  Don't the rich benefit from the contribution of poor people?
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« Reply #110 on: April 26, 2009, 07:55:32 PM »

Of course we all are affected by each other, for both good and bad, but that's hardly the point. We all are taxed one way or another, some more than others. The point here is that those who are rich are already paying the majority of the taxes. If we want to start talking about equivalent contributions, that's something else entirely.

Some people never volunteer, some volunteer a little, some a lot. Should the government step in and say that not enough volunteer work is being done, so there will be a law requiring those who already volunteer to give even more? Those who never volunteer will not have to do anything. Those who volunteer 10 hours/month must now volunteer 12. Those who volunteer 20 hours must move up to 30, and those who already volunteer 50 hours/month must now volunteer 75. "Obviously" those who already volunteer so much of their time are able to give more, while those who give nothing do so because they are simply unable. Forcing them to volunteer would be unfair.

Or how about military service? A new policy of required military service is put into affect. Young adults with parents in the military must sign up for a 10 year hitch. Those with one military parent must serve 5 years. Those with a grandparent who served sign up for one year, and those with no family history of military service must spend a week tending military cemeteries.

Those are scenarios comparable to making the rich pay more taxes.

You think the tax code is complicated now? Throw in your "tax equivalence" and no one would ever make it through a tax form. Who do you want deciding what kinds of activities are "tax equivalent" and which are not? Surely not our dear devoted congressmen?
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« Reply #110 on: April 26, 2009, 07:55:32 PM »

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« Reply #111 on: May 11, 2009, 07:40:38 AM »

Of course we all are affected by each other, for both good and bad, but that's hardly the point. We all are taxed one way or another, some more than others. The point here is that those who are rich are already paying the majority of the taxes. If we want to start talking about equivalent contributions, that's something else entirely.

Some people never volunteer, some volunteer a little, some a lot. Should the government step in and say that not enough volunteer work is being done, so there will be a law requiring those who already volunteer to give even more? Those who never volunteer will not have to do anything. Those who volunteer 10 hours/month must now volunteer 12. Those who volunteer 20 hours must move up to 30, and those who already volunteer 50 hours/month must now volunteer 75. "Obviously" those who already volunteer so much of their time are able to give more, while those who give nothing do so because they are simply unable. Forcing them to volunteer would be unfair.

Or how about military service? A new policy of required military service is put into affect. Young adults with parents in the military must sign up for a 10 year hitch. Those with one military parent must serve 5 years. Those with a grandparent who served sign up for one year, and those with no family history of military service must spend a week tending military cemeteries.

Those are scenarios comparable to making the rich pay more taxes.

You think the tax code is complicated now? Throw in your "tax equivalence" and no one would ever make it through a tax form. Who do you want deciding what kinds of activities are "tax equivalent" and which are not? Surely not our dear devoted congressmen?


As noted above, the rich pay the most tax as a share of revenue because their income has shot up like rocket.

The rich spend less of their income on such wasteful things as food and shelter so they've got the ability to afford the taxes required to run a large deficit

But go back and look at the numbers I posted in the other thread about the increase in wages 1979-2006. The consumer price index rose 155% in that span.

The top 1% has seen the top tax rate fall from 70% in 1979 to 35% now bottomed at 28% the last Reagan year and first two Bush, Sr. years, peaked back at 39.6% during Clinton years.

That happens to be the only group that has seen its income rise faster than inflation.
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« Reply #112 on: June 15, 2009, 09:58:02 AM »

 Why should the rich be penalized for being successful. I am not rich, but, rich people are why I have a job. America is built on a dream of being prosperous. If the welfare people do not pay any taxes why should the pendulum swing the other way, and tax the rich. Most of those who are rich worked for it. Do we punish people for working hard? Does that not kill morale to succeed? I as a upper middle or maybe a middle middle class woman, I know I will never be rich, rich. God told me so (LOL) seriously. I am comfortable though, and God supplies my daily bread, and much more. I do not want to be taxed to the hilt either. My brother and SIL, just got their stimulus money. They do not work, I am wondering why they received it. I am not resentful, because I love my brother and SIL. They bought a big screen HD TV. My parents are retired school teachers, who worked many years got the same stimulus, do not know what they did with theirs. Probably spent it on my girls.  The middle class, seems to pay the most in taxes, those who are college educated, making 45,000 to 150,000 a year.
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« Reply #113 on: July 29, 2009, 08:46:40 AM »

Of course we all are affected by each other, for both good and bad, but that's hardly the point. We all are taxed one way or another, some more than others. The point here is that those who are rich are already paying the majority of the taxes. If we want to start talking about equivalent contributions, that's something else entirely.

Some people never volunteer, some volunteer a little, some a lot. Should the government step in and say that not enough volunteer work is being done, so there will be a law requiring those who already volunteer to give even more? Those who never volunteer will not have to do anything. Those who volunteer 10 hours/month must now volunteer 12. Those who volunteer 20 hours must move up to 30, and those who already volunteer 50 hours/month must now volunteer 75. "Obviously" those who already volunteer so much of their time are able to give more, while those who give nothing do so because they are simply unable. Forcing them to volunteer would be unfair.

Or how about military service? A new policy of required military service is put into affect. Young adults with parents in the military must sign up for a 10 year hitch. Those with one military parent must serve 5 years. Those with a grandparent who served sign up for one year, and those with no family history of military service must spend a week tending military cemeteries.

Those are scenarios comparable to making the rich pay more taxes.

You think the tax code is complicated now? Throw in your "tax equivalence" and no one would ever make it through a tax form. Who do you want deciding what kinds of activities are "tax equivalent" and which are not? Surely not our dear devoted congressmen?


As noted above, the rich pay the most tax as a share of revenue because their income has shot up like rocket.

The rich spend less of their income on such wasteful things as food and shelter so they've got the ability to afford the taxes required to run a large deficit

But go back and look at the numbers I posted in the other thread about the increase in wages 1979-2006. The consumer price index rose 155% in that span.

The top 1% has seen the top tax rate fall from 70% in 1979 to 35% now bottomed at 28% the last Reagan year and first two Bush, Sr. years, peaked back at 39.6% during Clinton years.

That happens to be the only group that has seen its income rise faster than inflation.

Who cares? what about the capitalist system says someones income should not rise faster than inflation? Plain old compounding can achieve that at a certain principle point. So, I earn, save, invest, and that goes okay and now its bad that i beat inflation? Should we ALL not want to beat inflation?

I happen to own a small business. It employe about 18 folks. I sit in the crosshairs of all of the machinations of the Obama juggernaut. So telling of the intellectual bankruptcy of the left was an MSNBC reporter asking a dem representative from NJ, how can taking more in taxes from small businesses spur job growth (a good common sense question). his answer: "well it worked pretty well during the Clinton years"
These folks are hollow shells, not even thinkers.
If I have x today and employ 18, and tomorrow I have X minus.....and Im living on the difference between cost and gross sales, Im gonna CUT COST.
Who is goofy? me or the person saying I should now be able to HIRE someone?
This stuff is pure math. All the arguments in favor are emotional.
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« Reply #114 on: July 30, 2009, 06:31:13 PM »

I'm not paying taxes! I want to thank all the taxpayers for their wonderful support.

Also, I want to thank b. hussein o. for the 2.7 trillion dollars in debt and growing I'm gonna have to pay off when I start working for China! Boy!!, I can't wait to grow up!! Just kidding.

My GOD is bigger than obamas debt!!
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« Reply #114 on: July 30, 2009, 06:31:13 PM »

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« Reply #115 on: July 31, 2009, 02:56:27 PM »

In some recent dealings with the IRS, I've learned there's something called a "Self Employment Tax." How dare I go out on my own, take the risk of not having a 9 to 5 that's paid regularly. How dare I work from 8 a.m. to midnight just to do it again the next day while my buddies who are working for a company and leaving at 5 whether they got much done or not don't pay a "Self Employment Tax."

How dare I work for myself and leave a job out there for someone else. How dare I decide to work independently and not mooch off the government, friends or family. I should be taxed for my greed I suppose.

This is SO not what the founders had in mind. We were supposed to be free from the government stepping in our lives like this. One of the reasons the founders left England was because of a king who taxed people so much.

So whatever you do...don't go out on your own and try to make something of yourself rather than taking in unemployment or welfare. Cause if you dare have the gumption to take the risk and work the long hours and assume the responsibility of finding some way to pay yourself....if you dare you'll get slapped with a "Self Employment Tax."

And we call this the land of the free.   I'm surrounded by idiots
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« Reply #116 on: July 31, 2009, 06:25:27 PM »

The ol' SE tax routine.  Now that you're paying both sides of the FICA and Medicare you get a whiff of the whole thing and see how smelly it is, eh?
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« Reply #117 on: August 02, 2009, 05:02:17 PM »

I'm going to play devils-advocate on this one. I'm consider myself pretty conservative.  On Social Issues, I'm as conservative as you can get. I would vote for making the Bible the law of the land. That being said, I'm probably a little less conservative on economic issues. Just a little. But here is my argument about the "who pays the taxes" argument.
 
First, a lot of wealthy people have gotten their money by inheritance. I know, I know, they deserve to keep it. I just want to interject the thought that not all rich people are "hard working" or contribute more to our society than some poor guy on the street.  You could say they "got lucky".  I have a friend who met a girl who has rich parents. He hardly ever worked. I went to college, got my Masters and I'm living in a $1200 a month apartment and he's living on the beach in Malibu.  I'm not trying to start this "class warfare" stuff but realize that some people are just "lucky".  Maybe there should be something in the "system" that tries to equalize this.  We are all in this boat together.
 
Secondly, contributions are made to our country in other ways then just paying taxes.  For example, you take some poor kid who joins the military so he can pay for school.  Exactly what is his equivalence to someone who pays more taxes?  If money is returned to the people, don't you think he deserves to be taken into consideration?  Shouldn't some weight be given to his contribution? I mean, after all, our country wouldn't be here if not for guys (gals) like him (her).  
 
Of course, there are other contribution that the citizens of this country make. Like volunteering to help the poor.  What is that persons tax equivalence?
 

We could play the "it's not fair, you just got lucky" game all day and on until Jesus returns.

She's tall, he's short -- it's not fair.
He's smart, that guy is not as smart -- it's not fair.
The paint on my car chips, your paint doesn't -- it's not fair.
My house depreciated in value, your house didn't -- it's not fair.
He's fast, that guy is slow...
My team won, your team lost...
I have asthma, you don't...
She has cavities, he doesn't...
Shaquille O' Neal is 7' 1 and I'm only 5' 11...
He's got hair, his neighbor is bald...
He's handsome, his buddy is ugly...
Her website got lots of traffic, his didn't...
A publisher thought his book was good and published it, someone else didn't get their's published...
He made the team, that guy didn't...

You get the idea. Life is not fair. And that's what makes it fair. Instead of acting like spoiled children and griping "It's not fair," modern Americans have got to learn that other people don't owe them. No one is entitled to the rewards of someone else's work.

Some people might not have to work as hard as another. Some might be able to use their creativity, smarts or even luck (gasp) to earn money quickly without as much work as others. The Bible actually refers to that:

Proverbs 10:22 says, "The blessing of the Lord brings wealth, without painful toil for it."

So are we to say, "The Lord blessed you and that's not fair so we're going to redistribute your blessing"? That is the definition of coveting.

Here's an article I wrote called "What the Bible Says About Money." I studied the Bible and put a great deal of time and thought into it so feel free to reference it concerning this issue.
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"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."  - Thomas Jefferson
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« Reply #117 on: August 02, 2009, 05:02:17 PM »

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« Reply #118 on: August 13, 2009, 06:25:35 AM »

EXPLAINING THE TAXING SYSTEM WITH  BEER

Suppose that every  day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100.


If  they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like  this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth  would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The  eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the  richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers,' he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beers by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.'

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected.
They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men? - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that  everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is  $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar  owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the  same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should  pay.

And so:

The fifth man, li ke the first four, now paid  nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings). 
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid  $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18  (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings). 

Each of the six was better off than before and the first four continued to drink for free, but once outside the restaurant, the men began  to compare their savings. 'I only got a dollar out of the $20,' declared the  sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, 'but he got $10!' 'Yeah, that's  right,'exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too.. It's unfair that  he got TEN times more than I!'

'That's true!!' shouted the seventh  man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the  breaks!'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We  didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

”This is an unfair financial break for the wealthy at the expense of the poor”, they surmised.

The nine men  surrounded the tenth, berated him, accused him of making money off of them and taking advantage of them.

The next night the tenth man  didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But  when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something very  important....they didn't have enough money between all of them for even half  of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college  professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes  DO get the most benefit from a tax reduction. They also PAY more than the  rest.

David R. Kamerschen,  Ph.D.
Professor of Economics
University of  Georgia

For those who  understand, no explanation is needed.


For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible!

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« Reply #119 on: August 28, 2009, 09:08:36 PM »

I'm not paying taxes! I want to thank all the taxpayers for their wonderful support.

 Amen!

What people forget is that all big business get tax breaks which the average citizens cannot claim. 

Just how much did GM and Ford get dished out recently?Confused?
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