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BondServant
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« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2009, 07:18:28 PM »

II Thessalonians 3 

10 For evenwhen we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, workingnot at all, but are busy bodies.
12. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

Personally I think I'd have a very hard time watching others die while I eat steak.  Just doesn't seem charitable to me.

How is that relavant to the scripture posted?  Come to think of it, how is that relavant to anything?

In Christ,
KP
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« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2009, 08:36:31 PM »

II Thessalonians 3 

10 For evenwhen we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, workingnot at all, but are busy bodies.
12. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

Personally I think I'd have a very hard time watching others die while I eat steak.  Just doesn't seem charitable to me.

How is that relavant to the scripture posted?  Come to think of it, how is that relavant to anything?

In Christ,
KP

Well, I had posted that if Christians won't, the govt will.  Essentially meaning that I don't think anyone is really interested in seeing people starving to death or dying of treatable illnesses.  Susan responded with a section of scripture that on the face of it implies that Christians  only need to help if the person is willing to work.  The only reason the govt is involved in welfare, social security, etc. is because the Church refused(s) to obey the plain simple command of loving others.  My contention would be that rather worry about what a secular organization does or doesn't do wouldn't we do better to examine our own failings?    The current set of govt laws do not restrict us from obeying the command to love.  And considering the less than stellar comliance with tithing it's hard for me to believe that if given a relaxing of the legal theft by the govt to support these programs that the Church would suddenly step up to the plate.  Personally I'd rather see the Church become so involved that it would castrate the govt programs.  But that's probably wishful thinking on my part.  At best... naive would probably be closer to the truth and I can live with that.

« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 08:43:21 PM by Dayvd » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2009, 08:36:31 PM »

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BondServant
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« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2009, 09:11:11 PM »

You need to give the Church some more credit.  Research pregnancy crisis centers, soup kitchens and homeless shelters.

Then research where the government puts its money....abortion clinics and welfare.

The government is not doing Christ's work, the Church is.

In Christ,
KP
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« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2009, 09:22:54 PM »

I believe I have given the Church the credit(?) it deserves and because I agree the govt isn't supposed to be doing the work of Christ I think it unfair to judge it as tho it were.
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« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2009, 09:22:54 PM »

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« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2009, 12:57:07 AM »

Never seen so many irrelevant stories from so many angry crotchety people in one thread before.


 Log, We The people have a right to be angry, our dear president, and congress whizzed on the people and the constitution. Americans do not want this socialist agenda medical care why would we?
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« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2009, 07:45:37 AM »

The government bought my ticket back.  It cost less money, but it was a very roundabout route point A to X to Y to C to  D to B.  Seriously I had four layovers.  I spent just as much time waiting for planes as I did riding them. 

So yes, the government got me home...and it was cheaper...but it took twice as long and was five times a complicate when the government "took care of things" then it was when we simply did it ourselves.

Actually, it wasn't complicated at all: you received your itinerary, and it told you where to be and when to be there. If you followed your orders, you got home. Apparently, you did.  All of us who have ever been in uniform have done this. 

65 years ago, the government used a troopship that moved at 15 knots flat out (if you were really lucky, you got the Queen Mary or the Queen Elizabeth that moved at 30+ knots and didn't need escorts), and you got to where you were going when you got there.  My dad came home from the Philippines after WW2 in a former tank transport: it couldn't even make 15 knots. 

Efficiency is a matter of costs, and it's not efficient for government to spend more money than necessary to get you where you needed to be. You already knew that.  At least, it's good to be home.

Are you home on leave or home to stay?
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« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2009, 07:45:37 AM »

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Mac
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« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2009, 08:51:52 AM »

The government bought my ticket back.  It cost less money, but it was a very roundabout route point A to X to Y to C to  D to B.  Seriously I had four layovers.  I spent just as much time waiting for planes as I did riding them. 

So yes, the government got me home...and it was cheaper...but it took twice as long and was five times a complicate when the government "took care of things" then it was when we simply did it ourselves.

Actually, it wasn't complicated at all: you received your itinerary, and it told you where to be and when to be there. If you followed your orders, you got home. Apparently, you did.  All of us who have ever been in uniform have done this. 

65 years ago, the government used a troopship that moved at 15 knots flat out (if you were really lucky, you got the Queen Mary or the Queen Elizabeth that moved at 30+ knots and didn't need escorts), and you got to where you were going when you got there.  My dad came home from the Philippines after WW2 in a former tank transport: it couldn't even make 15 knots. 

Efficiency is a matter of costs, and it's not efficient for government to spend more money than necessary to get you where you needed to be. You already knew that.  At least, it's good to be home.

Are you home on leave or home to stay?

Although I agree with your assessment, k-pappy was relating his experience of using government transport with the way they will handle health care. And his point is valid. As you said, efficiency is a matter of cost. And this same attitude will be how our health care system will be ran if they are allowed to do this.
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« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2009, 09:06:33 AM »

II Thessalonians 3 

10 For evenwhen we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, workingnot at all, but are busy bodies.
12. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

Personally I think I'd have a very hard time watching others die while I eat steak.  Just doesn't seem charitable to me.





I know what you mean.  It is difficult to watch our exempted elected officials.
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« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2009, 09:27:38 AM »

The government bought my ticket back.  It cost less money, but it was a very roundabout route point A to X to Y to C to  D to B.  Seriously I had four layovers.  I spent just as much time waiting for planes as I did riding them. 

So yes, the government got me home...and it was cheaper...but it took twice as long and was five times a complicate when the government "took care of things" then it was when we simply did it ourselves.

Actually, it wasn't complicated at all: you received your itinerary, and it told you where to be and when to be there. If you followed your orders, you got home. Apparently, you did.  All of us who have ever been in uniform have done this. 

65 years ago, the government used a troopship that moved at 15 knots flat out (if you were really lucky, you got the Queen Mary or the Queen Elizabeth that moved at 30+ knots and didn't need escorts), and you got to where you were going when you got there.  My dad came home from the Philippines after WW2 in a former tank transport: it couldn't even make 15 knots. 

Efficiency is a matter of costs, and it's not efficient for government to spend more money than necessary to get you where you needed to be. You already knew that.  At least, it's good to be home.

Are you home on leave or home to stay?

You are correct, it was cheaper and more efficient for the government to fly me home with five stops and twice the time...

It was more expensive for my family to fly home directly in half the time...

Granted, on my trip, I didn't "suffer" but it was very wearing and tiring, and it was very complicated.

Now, imagine your health care being run that.

You can go to the doctor and get your presciption yourself...pay a little more and have the doctor visit and drugs ready the same day.

Or let the government do it, wait three months to be seen for bronchitis by a doctor who is on the other side of your state and wait another two to four weeks for your drugs.  It is cheaper and more efficient, but you are suffering in the process.

Our health care is about to be run that way.

As for "home."  This is my new home.  My family arrived, I arrived, and in a few months our stuff will arrive.

In Christ,
KP
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« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2009, 04:14:52 PM »

II Thessalonians 3 

10 For evenwhen we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, workingnot at all, but are busy bodies.
12. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

Personally I think I'd have a very hard time watching others die while I eat steak.  Just doesn't seem charitable to me.





I know what you mean.  It is difficult to watch our exempted elected officials.

Those with money will always find a way to pay their way around the laws.  It's the way capitalism works.
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« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2009, 04:14:52 PM »

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Dayvd
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« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2009, 04:27:45 PM »

Quote from: k-pappy
You can go to the doctor and get your presciption yourself...pay a little more and have the doctor visit and drugs ready the same day.

Or let the government do it, wait three months to be seen for bronchitis by a doctor who is on the other side of your state and wait another two to four weeks for your drugs.  It is cheaper and more efficient, but you are suffering in the process.

Or you could just stay home and die while you wait for the Church to decide if you deserve to be loved and pay your medical bills.

Life is full of choices.
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« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2009, 04:33:51 PM »

wow...no bitterness there...
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« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2009, 04:38:28 PM »

wow...no bitterness there...

I agree with that statement.  It's simple reality.
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« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2009, 04:38:28 PM »

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« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2009, 05:23:05 PM »

It's called sarcasm...my post was dripping with it...and yours is dripping with bitterness...if you would like to talk about it, please feel free to PM me.

In Christ,
KP
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« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2009, 06:06:21 PM »

II Thessalonians 3 

10 For evenwhen we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, workingnot at all, but are busy bodies.
12. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

Personally I think I'd have a very hard time watching others die while I eat steak.  Just doesn't seem charitable to me.

How is that relavant to the scripture posted?  Come to think of it, how is that relavant to anything?

In Christ,
KP

Well, I had posted that if Christians won't, the govt will.  Essentially meaning that I don't think anyone is really interested in seeing people starving to death or dying of treatable illnesses.  Susan responded with a section of scripture that on the face of it implies that Christian's only need to help if the person is willing to work.  The only reason the govt is involved in welfare, social security, etc. is because the Church refused(s) to obey the plain simple command of loving others.  My contention would be that rather worry about what a secular organization does or doesn't do wouldn't we do better to examine our own failings?    The current set of govt laws do not restrict us from obeying the command to love.  And considering the less than stellar comliance with tithing it's hard for me to believe that if given a relaxing of the legal theft by the govt to support these programs that the Church would suddenly step up to the plate.  Personally I'd rather see the Church become so involved that it would castrate the govt programs.  But that's probably wishful thinking on my part.  At best... naive would probably be closer to the truth and I can live with that.



 We have Christian doctors in my congregation, they love God, this is their occupation, just as you and I have occupations. A workman is worth his hire, according to the word of God. These Christian physicians in my church are not rich, do medical missions, here in the United States, and abroad. Do you want to rip, the brethren, who choose the medical profession to be harmed financially? Do you want your livelyhood to be harmed?  I am sure they do not want theirs to be either. The stupid healthcare Bill, is not going to benefit the poor, it will penalize them, they must purchase healthcare, or be in debt for fines or jail. We also have to think of the elderly ( God does not love them?), they are the ones going to suffer the most. The will be denied treatment, and many are life saving treatments, that have extended many older peoples life. We also have medicare, medicaid, and here in Oklahoma Sooner care for children, free care for Indians, even their own hospital ( very state of the art). I will suffer, and so will others, because I have narcolepsy, I have three daughters, how will I take care of them? I hope you are not in my path when I drive. You see my medication is expensive, I have taken it for fifteen years, and the government will not provide it, I am sure. I cannot take an alternative I have tried, and it was horrible. Am I not worthy of love, because I work, for now, until my medication is going to be null and void. Why, are people who work, not worthy of love+ Does God not command us to work? You think when they tax you to death, and you have to worry about how to feed your family, how to give to God, and other unfortunate people, that is love? I say fix the broken system of insurance, not Government take over. It just makes me sick, to have the " Love" card thrown around in the government Obamacare.  BTW, it is not love to pay for abortions, it is sin and an abomination.  I love others, but, does not mean I want the government to control my medical care, or that of my family. You see I love my husband, kids, and parents also. Is that not acceptable to do, to love my family God blessed me with? I also love others, and help, them it is called Christian Charity. I love myself as it is commanded, because you can not love others, if that is not in place. That is not vain or concited, it is a command, and well if I am sick, what will happen to others I want to help? Love is not forced charity, It does not override over my free will. That is the first gift God gave us in the garden free will.  I hate, I mean hate, this administrations socialist agenda ( notice I did not say Obama). I hate how it  is destroying a whole nation with a bunch of stupid sheep saying baa, when he says to say baa. I'm with stupid That's crazy Afro
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