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Author Topic: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee  (Read 620 times)

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Offline Cally

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Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« on: Fri Jul 06, 2018 - 19:51:46 »
I asked this woman to marry me and she said yes . . . and we have a situation on our hands because of a massive difference in understanding on something.

I knew she was a divorced woman and when we were first together, the comment that stuck in my head was "he cheated on me." He was unspeakably full of sin in many other ways. I didn't really think twice about it because I believe Jesus' implication of Matthew 19:9 that someone may divorce and remarry if the divorce is on the grounds of porneia.

I got a "vibe" the something different was in her mind that clicked with horrible timing. She was claiming 1 Corinthians 7:15 for her grounds, which states that if the unbeliever wants to leave, let it be so . . . which is something I didn't really see in effect in her scenario.

Basically they were together out of the country, and he returned to America. It would have taken time and money to bring her back as she didn't have permanent citizenship, but that didn't mean it was impossible. And I WAS under the impression that he was not unopposed to her following him back, but maybe that isn't true . . . the story is muddy.

This is a dreadful, dreadful thing that has happened and I'm ashamed that I didn't catch this sooner. I'm fasting and praying unlike ever before to get the answer from God. Jesus speaks strongly against divorce and remarriage and theologically there appears to be several understood exceptions - one case being very easy to make (porneia) and the other not as much, especially in this case. I'm trying to make the case and pray to be convinced that this gets both the Lord's approval and passes through my conscience.

Most of all, please pray for her. She is an extremely wonderful woman with a life full of hurts. We love each other very much and I'd give my life for her. I only pray that I THINK and DO what is right in the Lord's sight front-to-back.

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Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« on: Fri Jul 06, 2018 - 19:51:46 »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #1 on: Fri Jul 06, 2018 - 20:10:13 »
Thanks for sharing Cally. I will be praying for God to bless your sincere seeking in this situation.

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #1 on: Fri Jul 06, 2018 - 20:10:13 »

Offline johntwayne

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #2 on: Sat Jul 07, 2018 - 01:02:01 »
praying

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #2 on: Sat Jul 07, 2018 - 01:02:01 »

Offline chosenone

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #3 on: Sat Jul 07, 2018 - 02:54:12 »
Was he a Christian? Was she at the time?

This is hard one. The red flag I see is that she lied to you and said he cheated when he didn't. Is that something you can live with? A lady who lies about something so important?

Did he abandon her or was it understood that she would apply for a visa and follow him? He was just going home wasnt he. Why didn't she follow? You so need clarity from her, she must be 100% honest. Has she repented? 

Can you go and talk to a couple of pastors and see what they say?

Basically her marriage is over, I cant see anywhere in the bible where a divorce doesn't end a marriage. If she has repented of ending that marriage then she is forgiven. Its just a question of you needing to know the full truth and then being able to pray and listen to God for His direction. 



« Last Edit: Sat Jul 07, 2018 - 03:35:11 by chosenone »

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #3 on: Sat Jul 07, 2018 - 02:54:12 »

Online Texas Conservative

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #4 on: Sat Jul 07, 2018 - 07:10:17 »
If you don't find out the complete truth, do not go forward with it.

Unless he initiated the divorce proceedings, I would be extremely hesitant.

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #4 on: Sat Jul 07, 2018 - 07:10:17 »



Offline Christs Princess

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #5 on: Mon Jul 09, 2018 - 00:42:45 »
I am "callys" fiancee and to set the record straight I never lied to him. Not once. It's very hurtful and shocking how misrepresented I am on this.

Firstly my ex husband was 22 yrs older than I am was married twice before he married me and cheated and used drugs in both his previous marriages. I was a gullible 20 yr old who beleived he had changed.

Long story short during our marriage we lived in america and I am from new zealand. I discovered he was hooked on drugs .vicodin and also was doing cocaine.
I came to visit my family in Feb 2011 and all kinds of things came out...the true extent of his drug use and he is also an alcoholic. We lived in stockton california which is a very dangerous city full of drug addicts.

I told him that if he wanted to save our marriage he needed to come and live in new zealand where I had support. I had no one in america should he land in jail.

He was angry at first but then once he realized he could escape his debt agreed to move here promising to get clean and sober.
While here he refused to go to a rehab multiple times and was extremely drunk every day. On weekends he would be at bars and nightclubs
While here he wrote to his friend saying "prostitution is legal in NZ and that is all I will say"
He hated being here and was secretly saving up for a plane ticket. I confronted him about that and he said "well you could always go back with me"
I told him my green card had expired due to being out of the country longer than 6 months and I was unwilling to go back with a drug addict who refused help.

We were living with my brother and his wife and after coming home extremely drunk to the point of barely functioning ( he did this often) he was asked to find accommodation elsewhere.
He did with a couple he had met through work (a labour job) and the last time I saw him he was so drunk and high he fell off his seat on the bus


I gave him one more chance after he went back and he was living in a rehab but only because he had no job and money so his things got repossessed. He got kicked out of the rehab.

I got fed up and filed for divorce based on abandonment of the unbeliever. He would not divorce me as he did not want me to be free to move on with my life.

Currently he is selling drugs, doing drugs,going after young girls, drinking himself into oblivion and is literally on the streets, he is totally homeless. He also sleeps with prostitutes. He has been a meth addict now for several years.

Should I have gone back? Should I have just waited and waited in case he ever could have come up with the money to reinstate my green card and hope and pray Ididnt end up homeless with him?

I'msorry but I cannot beleive that I should have.

My ex husband while in one breath stated I could just go back with him sent me horrible text messages the day he left saying "you are so pitiful, begging me to stay"

Yes I messed up and committed adultery before the divorce was final. That was 5 years ago.i repented.

"Cally" knows ALL these details.

A pastor who has known my ex for decades says he believes this is absolutely desertion of an unbeleiver and I am free to remarry.

I have never lied about the circumstances of my divorce to anyone at any time. Cally knows I only have circumstantial evidence as far as cheating and hes always known that he just cannot accept that the divorce is absolute abandoment by an unbeleiver.

« Last Edit: Mon Jul 09, 2018 - 03:26:22 by Christs Princess »

Offline chosenone

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #6 on: Mon Jul 09, 2018 - 02:10:03 »
Hi CP, it does sound as if you married an awful man. Lots of massive red flags with him, married twice already, cheated in both marriages, non Christian, drug user and heavy drinker. Also old enough to be your dad. Its hard to see what you saw in him.
OK we all make mistakes, this is in the past. No one would blame you for ending that marriage.

In the end Cally needs to be sure that you are the right person for him to marry, previous divorce or not. You haven't spend that much time together, so maybe more time is needed? Its very hard to really get to know someone properly long distance. Its good that he is being so careful and I am sure that in time God will give him that peace either way. Don't be in a rush is my advise.   

Offline larry2

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #7 on: Mon Jul 09, 2018 - 05:47:23 »
Dear Brother Cally, the question becomes: do you love her? From your testimony everything in you says yes regardless of any perceived fault. I’ve read of her love of you too. Remember that it is the love of Jesus for us that overcame the ministration of death that would have Him choose to die for us

Next, are you under law? Even the rich man having followed all the law was not exempt from the law of love; follow Jesus. Mt 19:21.

Are you seeking a way of entering the kingdom of Heaven as we read in Mt 19:23. Everything I know of you tells me you and CP are both in Christ, will always be, and can have a life together that glorifies our Lord, and provides the very things in your lives you want.

I’ll just offer this following prayer and hope you can see the very existing love of Christ, and of one another that make you equally yoked together.

Dear Father, You see the hurt, and questions this beautiful couple has as Satan put barriers to the happiness they could have. Please give them the trust they need to have the power to overcome obstacles, and have a life lived for You and each other. I praise You Father for the love you showed in even making it possible for them to meet, and I give You all praise for Your help to them in Jesus’ name. Amen.

I have now been married over sixty-one years, and among all the trials of life God only deepens our love of one another. Don’t be quick to sever that which God has begun. God has you both forever, and it can be as one following our Savior together.

God bless you both to find the way in Jesus’ name. I will continue in prayer for you both, and let me know if I can help in any way further.

Offline Cally

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #8 on: Mon Jul 09, 2018 - 06:59:02 »
Chosenone:

No she has not lied to me, ever.

The "vibe" I said that I got was that she wasn't relying on a Matthew 19:9 grounds as much as I thought. It wasn't that she gave me wrong information. And that's why I'm despairing over what damage this has caused between us.

There isn't much of a change of information. The only thing that stirred up in my mind was which grounds she was personally claiming over this. I was/am fine with the "cheated" idea because it's very credible.

But the point of tension was that I hadn't been viewing it as 1 Corinthians 7:15 case because he wasn't unopposed to living with her per se, as (and I'm unclear on this up to this point by now) he may have brought her with him back to the US where he would plunge into his horrible lifestyle. And indeed she would have been unsafe. She had told him the marriage would be over if he went back to the states, away from her in NZ where she was safe.

In 1 Corinthians 7:13, it says, "if he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him." The situation seems like a "yes and no" to this and this is where I'm trying to be at peace with it: "yes" he would have consented to live with her, but only in a place where she would be in horrible danger and he has proven incorrigible . . . so "no," while she was trying to bear with him in a place that was at least safe for her.

At the end of the day, I told her many times, I remained at peace with her grounds with divorce on Matt 19:9. Theologically, I am seeing so many people try and justify divorce for just about any reason in all this (and some who even declare all divorce and remarriage as wrong). Theologies are all over the place. My mind has just wrestled with seeing it QUITE the way she is as far as her grounds are concerned from a theological perspective. Again, some people want to justify divorce and remarriage theologically for virtually any reason in response to feelings for a case rather than principle whereas both of us believe in VERY limited reasons for it. So, my mind had not jumped through the hoops quite to see it her way.

I am deeply troubled by how much harm this has caused. I had even tried to keep my mouth shut over this, but I'm grieved that it has caused such dischord. Please pray for us, but especially her.
« Last Edit: Mon Jul 09, 2018 - 07:09:04 by Cally »

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #8 on: Mon Jul 09, 2018 - 06:59:02 »

Offline chosenone

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #9 on: Mon Jul 09, 2018 - 11:08:20 »
Chosenone:

No she has not lied to me, ever.

The "vibe" I said that I got was that she wasn't relying on a Matthew 19:9 grounds as much as I thought. It wasn't that she gave me wrong information. And that's why I'm despairing over what damage this has caused between us.

There isn't much of a change of information. The only thing that stirred up in my mind was which grounds she was personally claiming over this. I was/am fine with the "cheated" idea because it's very credible.

But the point of tension was that I hadn't been viewing it as 1 Corinthians 7:15 case because he wasn't unopposed to living with her per se, as (and I'm unclear on this up to this point by now) he may have brought her with him back to the US where he would plunge into his horrible lifestyle. And indeed she would have been unsafe. She had told him the marriage would be over if he went back to the states, away from her in NZ where she was safe.

In 1 Corinthians 7:13, it says, "if he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him." The situation seems like a "yes and no" to this and this is where I'm trying to be at peace with it: "yes" he would have consented to live with her, but only in a place where she would be in horrible danger and he has proven incorrigible . . . so "no," while she was trying to bear with him in a place that was at least safe for her.

At the end of the day, I told her many times, I remained at peace with her grounds with divorce on Matt 19:9. Theologically, I am seeing so many people try and justify divorce for just about any reason in all this (and some who even declare all divorce and remarriage as wrong). Theologies are all over the place. My mind has just wrestled with seeing it QUITE the way she is as far as her grounds are concerned from a theological perspective. Again, some people want to justify divorce and remarriage theologically for virtually any reason in response to feelings for a case rather than principle whereas both of us believe in VERY limited reasons for it. So, my mind had not jumped through the hoops quite to see it her way.

I am deeply troubled by how much harm this has caused. I had even tried to keep my mouth shut over this, but I'm grieved that it has caused such dischord. Please pray for us, but especially her.
 

Cally you are a good man who wants to do the right thing. I agree with you about the difference between so many Christians on this subject and that makes it hard for those who want to do the right thing. I always say that if you ask 20 Christians what they think God says about divorce and remarriage they will give 20 different answers. I have listened to a lot of teaching on it and also read a lot a of Christian books, as well as many other Christians thoughts and beliefs.
As you know we are both previously divorced after long first marriages so its something important to us.

For what its worth, here are the things I think I have learnt.

1)Divorce and therefore remarriage are permitted for certain Biblical reasons. These seem to be sexual sins and abandonment.
2) There are many grey areas such as when someone is abused that are sometimes hard to decide on. I find it hard to see how God would ever want a spouse or children to stay with an abusive, drug addicted, drunk, especially one who isn't prepared to make any effort to change. 
3) I cant see anywhere in the Bible that says a divorce doesn't end a marriage.
2) the innocent spouse is free to remarry.
4)Our past is forgiven if we are His.
5)God loves to give us fresh starts and new beginnings.

If you have no peace right now then just wait. From what she has said her ex almost certainly cheated anyway and he certainly acted dreadfully. He also wasn't a Christian. There is no hurry is there, and it may be best if you can visit each other more in person to get to know each other more deeply.

Also have you talked to any mature Christians in your church? Pastors? Of course they will have their own thoughts on this subject and in the end you will need to make that decision, but it may help if they can pray with you.

I do find it hard to think that God would condemn anyone in her position to a lifetime without marriage for making that mistake when she was 20.



 



 
« Last Edit: Mon Jul 09, 2018 - 11:15:00 by chosenone »

Offline crowningglory19

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #10 on: Wed Jul 11, 2018 - 20:08:31 »
Hmm, it is hard to be sure I understand your circumstances based on my reading.  So, he did cheat on her or not?  Did she leave the relationship just because of leaving the country and not wanting to be together again?  Before any decisions are made, clear the muddy waters, ask lots of questions talk to each other a lot!  That is much better than putting it out online for many to see and feelings to be deeply hurt.   One will lead to another and the full story will come out.  Base your decision on that and whether God gives you peace about past sins being forgiven or not.  We are not legalistic, we live in grace, but there are consequences that naturally come with going against God's will. Are you married yet?  If so, stay married, can't make anything undone and divorce is another big problem added to it all.  Just cont. in love if you are married, and if not, pray a lot, seek the truth.   I see now that your fiance is now putting more info on this subject.  It is tough, keep talking, in love to each other.  Walk away and agree to talk later if the tempers flare or things are out of control, maybe w a church counselor present to keep it sane or a pastor.  It seems she thought of his drug abuse and leaving her as important as the sexual cheating, I can understand that too.   Praying for wisdom for you and her in this.   

Offline Christs Princess

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #11 on: Wed Jul 11, 2018 - 22:00:49 »
Its humiliating having all this hung out for everyone and their grandma to jump in on with their opinions. I added my bit as callys initial post did not fully describe the entire situation which left a lot of people assuming I had been lying to him which never happened. Unless people know my ex, know me and were actually there they really dont know anything at all.
I agree this should not have ever been put up online for all to see and I'm exhausted at having to open up all the old wounds of the past. It's as if I am back in time still married to him, and reopening a door God closed firmly.

Nobody was there the day my ex told me in no uncertain terms he will not stop drugs and decided to abandon me. It's very easy for others to pick up stones and jump in with their 2 cents.

Theres other details others dont even know and the only person who does is the Lord, cally and my family and those close to me.

I really have been made to feel like I am on trial and this is the last I will say on this topic


Offline chosenone

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #12 on: Thu Jul 12, 2018 - 04:52:48 »
Its humiliating having all this hung out for everyone and their grandma to jump in on with their opinions. I added my bit as callys initial post did not fully describe the entire situation which left a lot of people assuming I had been lying to him which never happened. Unless people know my ex, know me and were actually there they really dont know anything at all.
I agree this should not have ever been put up online for all to see and I'm exhausted at having to open up all the old wounds of the past. It's as if I am back in time still married to him, and reopening a door God closed firmly.

Nobody was there the day my ex told me in no uncertain terms he will not stop drugs and decided to abandon me. It's very easy for others to pick up stones and jump in with their 2 cents.

Theres other details others dont even know and the only person who does is the Lord, cally and my family and those close to me.

I really have been made to feel like I am on trial and this is the last I will say on this topic

I have tried to be fair to both of you, Cally has been on this forum for many many years, as have I and as have many others. We care about him and respect that he wants to do the right thing. I think that he also respects some of the people here, and its not bad to get different thoughts from other, and perhaps older and more mature believers. He is free to take or reject whatever is said.
Many have been helped here in the past with all sort of issues and problems, some to do with marriage and relationships.

Personally I cant see any issues with he and you being together, but he has to be sure as I am sure you know. He has to have that peace about it all as do you.

We are not 'everyone and their grandma' just a few have replied, and we here are mostly older believers who have faced many things in life and hopefully learnt from them. 

     
« Last Edit: Thu Jul 12, 2018 - 07:16:37 by chosenone »

Offline Alan

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #13 on: Thu Jul 12, 2018 - 06:42:08 »
Its humiliating having all this hung out for everyone and their grandma to jump in on with their opinions. I added my bit as callys initial post did not fully describe the entire situation which left a lot of people assuming I had been lying to him which never happened. Unless people know my ex, know me and were actually there they really dont know anything at all.
I agree this should not have ever been put up online for all to see and I'm exhausted at having to open up all the old wounds of the past. It's as if I am back in time still married to him, and reopening a door God closed firmly.

Nobody was there the day my ex told me in no uncertain terms he will not stop drugs and decided to abandon me. It's very easy for others to pick up stones and jump in with their 2 cents.

Theres other details others dont even know and the only person who does is the Lord, cally and my family and those close to me.

I really have been made to feel like I am on trial and this is the last I will say on this topic


If Cally is comfortable with airing his issues on a public forum for all to see and comment upon, perhaps it is him that you need to take this up with. When a member posts a personal problem, is it not akin to asking for advice? Other members will offer up advice, like it or not.  That is the nature of the forum.




Offline Cally

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #14 on: Thu Jul 12, 2018 - 19:06:03 »
I'm very sorry for how I left room for misperception about the situation. I wasn't very careful when I wrote it for the details.

I didn't mean to speak any ill of her at all and she has understandably been very hurt by this. In fact the details of her long-suffering during her first marriage is a reason why I think very, very highly of her. She could have EASILY remarried her way out of her problems early on as she is an extremely attractive woman - she tells me that she was called "Barbie doll" at one of her jobs at a lab.

She has such a strong sense of honor and loyalty. I've told her that, even as she lives on the other side of the world, she has made me feel like I'm at home like I haven't felt (and couldn't even remember) since growing up at my parents' house.

I'm so desperately in love with every corner of her being, and her love of the Lord is what drives her at her very core. She is also so much fun! She is irreplaceable to me. I can't imagine anyone else being my wife.

I want her to feel loved, honored, cherished, protected, and desired. I pray to the Lord that He would eliminate any failings in me that would make me unworthy of her.

Offline RB

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #15 on: Fri Jul 13, 2018 - 04:57:38 »
I'm very sorry for how I left room for misperception about the situation. I wasn't very careful when I wrote it for the details.

I didn't mean to speak any ill of her at all and she has understandably been very hurt by this. In fact the details of her long-suffering during her first marriage is a reason why I think very, very highly of her. She could have EASILY remarried her way out of her problems early on as she is an extremely attractive woman - she tells me that she was called "Barbie doll" at one of her jobs at a lab.

She has such a strong sense of honor and loyalty. I've told her that, even as she lives on the other side of the world, she has made me feel like I'm at home like I haven't felt (and couldn't even remember) since growing up at my parents' house.

I'm so desperately in love with every corner of her being, and her love of the Lord is what drives her at her very core. She is also so much fun! She is irreplaceable to me. I can't imagine anyone else being my wife.

I want her to feel loved, honored, cherished, protected, and desired. I pray to the Lord that He would eliminate any failings in me that would make me unworthy of her.
It's time for  ::kissing:: that the best thing about the little problems that arise, the reconciliation is wonderful!

Offline chosenone

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Re: Major need for prayer between me and my fiancee
« Reply #16 on: Fri Jul 13, 2018 - 07:17:05 »
You wont go wrong if you let Gods peace be your guide.

 

     
anything