Author Topic: 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24  (Read 4419 times)

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Offline KNOWLEDGE BOMB

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Re: 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2012, 09:14:39 PM »
"For the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,

afterwards we who are living, who are remaining over, shall be caught away to join them (NEB) through the clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be."
End End



My KJV doesn't have the word "afterwards" I guess thus was added later....

See that word makes all the difference in our two bibles....

My bible teaches at one time and yours teaches something else..


What version is your bible that has this word?
It's just as important to KNOW what's NOT in the Bible
as it is to KNOW what IS

thethinker

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Re: 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2012, 07:44:00 AM »
Paul died in 67 CE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle

According to you Preterists the Lord "came " invisibly in 70 CE.

Sounds rather like the Jehovah's Witness claim Jesus returned invisibly in 1914 and is ruling from Watchtower HQ in Brooklyn.


Sorry to have to contradict you (not really sorry) but there is no historical or scriptural evidence that Paul died in ad67. Check out websites which deal with the date of Paul's death and they say that there is no historical or scriptural evidence. They say that it is according to TRADITION that Paul died in ad67. We are NOT bound by tradition.

Furthermore, Christ's second coming was an event that occurred in linear time. Jesus said to Caiaphas the high priest,

"From this time onward you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power AND coming in the clouds."

So Jesus' second coming ran together with His session at the right hand of power in linear time. This means that all the events from His ascension up to the final consummation fell within the scope of His second coming. Thus ad67 was within the scope of Christ's second coming. Therefore, it doesn't matter if Paul had died in ad67.

Why are you ignoring Paul's promise to the Thessalonians in 5:23-24? He PROMISED them that God would be faithful and PRESERVE them in "BODY, soul and spirit" until the Lord's coming. It CLEARLY says that their BODIES would be PRESERVED along with their souls and spirits UNTIL the Lord's coming. This means that Christ would surely come in THEIR lifetime.

So if Christ had not come, then they are still living today. Are they in hiding somewhere?

thinker

inthenow

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Re: 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2012, 05:12:09 PM »
1Th 5:23  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

preserved is "tereo" in the greek, it means to "guard, keep"
but it's not just be preserved, it's "be preserved blameless"

kept blameless, and it's not just for those Paul was talking to through his letter, it's also for christians today who read that same letter.

Offline fenton

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Re: 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2012, 05:43:44 PM »
i think that God new how people were going to distort His Word in today's time. He wrote it knowing how we SHOULD understand it TODAY!!!!!

My God is Not Dumb!!!

He did not want only the theologians or the ones that went to seminary to be the only ones to be able to understand the Word!!!!!

 ::beatingdeadhorse::
::frustrated:: Headaches

I am not living in hell and if this is heaven then God lied and God is not a liar!!!

Pro 1:23  Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

1Jn 2:27  But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

daq

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Re: 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2012, 06:24:20 PM »
"For the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,

afterwards we who are living, who are remaining over, shall be caught away to join them (NEB) through the clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be."
End End



My KJV doesn't have the word "afterwards" I guess thus was added later....

See that word makes all the difference in our two bibles....

My bible teaches at one time and yours teaches something else..


What version is your bible that has this word?

See there thinker? It is better just to adhere to the original meaning of the word whenever possible because those who love and worship King James and his "Ye Olde English" words are not going to believe the Truth when they see it anyways, even if you post it for a full chilia ete!  ::crackup::

AGAIN ~

EPI - EITA  =  THERE(UPON)AFTER

As a particle of SUCCESSION in TIME or logical ENUMERATION
LIKE STONES IN THE LAYERED BUILDING PROCESS OF A TEMPLE

Original Strong's Ref. #1899
Romanized  epeita
Pronounced ep'-i-tah
from GSN1909 and GSN1534; thereafter:
KJV--after that(-ward), then.

Original Strong's Ref. #1909
Romanized  epi
Pronounced ep-ee'
a primary preposition; properly, meaning superimposition (of time, place, order, etc.), as a relation of distribution [with the genitive case], i.e. over, upon, etc.; of rest (with the det.) at, on, etc.; of direction (with the accusative case) towards, upon, etc.:

Original Strong's Ref. #1534
Romanized  eita
Pronounced i'-tah
of uncertain affinity; a particle of succession (in time or logical enumeration), then, moreover:
KJV--after that(-ward), furthermore, then. See also GSN1899.

1 Corinthians 15:23
23. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; THEREAFTER they that are Christ's at his parousia.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
17. THEREAFTER we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Regarding 1 Thessalonians 5:23 Stephen is the example of what it means. The body is one "entity" because "the flesh profiteth nothing" and the deeds of it need to be "mortified-killed-crucified" with Christ. This is because it is full of EVIL, and thus, ENTITY. The soul of the man is also entity because the soul IS the man as you know and understand. However, the word for spirit also means breeze, wind, or BREATH, which means it is TESTIMONY in this instance. Stephen gives his full testimony in Acts 7 and this is the "spirit" of which Paul speaks in 1 Thessalonians 5:23. Stephen offers up his FULL TESTIMONY throughout the chapter and then cries out at the End:

Acts 7:55-59 KJV
55. But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
57. Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
58. And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
59. And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.


Then he received a white stone, and a new name written: Stephanas.

1 Corinthians 1:14-15 KJV
14. I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15. Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

1 Corinthians 16:15-16 KJV
15. I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)
16. That ye submit yourselves unto such, and to every one that helpeth with us, and laboureth.


The King James worshippers will lie to you and sware that Stephen was buried because King James and his court said so: therefore King James is their god.  ::crackup::

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Re: 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2012, 06:24:20 PM »



inthenow

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Re: 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2012, 07:12:21 PM »
Lying accusations from daq about those who read the King James version of the bible.
I read a few diffrent versions by the way. Just showing a bit of the evil posted here by some.

those who love and worship King James and his "Ye Olde English" words are not going to believe the Truth when they see it anyways, even if you post it for a full chilia ete!

The King James worshippers will lie to you and sware that Stephen was buried because King James and his court said so: therefore King James is their god.

daq say's those that read the King James version of the bible, worship King James, don't believe the truth when they see it, will lie to you, and that King James is their God.

daq

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Re: 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2012, 09:03:34 PM »
i think that God new how people were going to distort His Word in today's time. He wrote it knowing how we SHOULD understand it TODAY!!!!!

My God is Not Dumb!!!

He did not want only the theologians or the ones that went to seminary to be the only ones to be able to understand the Word!!!!!

 ::beatingdeadhorse::

Both the YGB and the KJV follow the Textus Receptus:

Acts 8:2 KJV
2. And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.

Acts 8:2 YGB (Young's Literal Bible)
2. and devout men carried away Stephen, and made great lamentation over him;


With all of the free Bible Tools sites online do you honestly believe laziness in this modern day and age will be excused? In addition my Bible Tools software, including the Hebrew and Greek Transliterations, twelve English Bible translations, the Complete works of Josephus, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance with all of the Original Stong's Definitions, four different complete Bible Commentaries including Henry's Concise, and also five Bible Dictionaries including Easton's; ALL of this was a mere $12.99 US Dollars at Hastings Book Store. Understand?

TWELVE DOLLARS AND NINETY NINE CENTS PLUS TAX!  ::crackup::

If you honestly believe that laziness will be excused, just because you confessed at one time or another that you "believe" then you have been sorely deceived, and if you think that your once upon a time belief is all you need to enter into Life then you are surely deceived:

James 2:17-20 KJV
17. Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Mark 16:15-16 KJV
15. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


A simple "belief" is not enough; even the devils believe, and tremble. One must be Baptized INTO Christ: even as Saul was used to baptize Stephen, and then his name was changed to Stephanas. Then Saul himself was baptized, and he gave his testimony at Antipatris-Antipas, and the "old man" was slain, and his name was changed to Paul.

daq

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Re: 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2012, 09:07:03 PM »
"For the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,

afterwards we who are living, who are remaining over, shall be caught away to join them (NEB) through the clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be."
End End



My KJV doesn't have the word "afterwards" I guess thus was added later....

See that word makes all the difference in our two bibles....

My bible teaches at one time and yours teaches something else..


What version is your bible that has this word?


Lying accusations from daq about those who read the King James version of the bible.
I read a few diffrent versions by the way. Just showing a bit of the evil posted here by some.

those who love and worship King James and his "Ye Olde English" words are not going to believe the Truth when they see it anyways, even if you post it for a full chilia ete!

The King James worshippers will lie to you and sware that Stephen was buried because King James and his court said so: therefore King James is their god.

daq say's those that read the King James version of the bible, worship King James, don't believe the truth when they see it, will lie to you, and that King James is their God.


A pair of black adder vipers latching on to anyone who stirs up their wood pile:
Not knowing they have already been shaken off into the fire ...


Mark 16:15-18 KJV
15. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18. They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Acts 28:3-5 KJV
3. And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand.
4. And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
5. And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm.

It shall not be a fire to be warmed by ...



inthenow

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Re: 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2012, 03:42:21 AM »
"For the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,

afterwards we who are living, who are remaining over, shall be caught away to join them (NEB) through the clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be."
End End



My KJV doesn't have the word "afterwards" I guess thus was added later....

See that word makes all the difference in our two bibles....

My bible teaches at one time and yours teaches something else..


What version is your bible that has this word?


Lying accusations from daq about those who read the King James version of the bible.
I read a few diffrent versions by the way. Just showing a bit of the evil posted here by some.

those who love and worship King James and his "Ye Olde English" words are not going to believe the Truth when they see it anyways, even if you post it for a full chilia ete!

The King James worshippers will lie to you and sware that Stephen was buried because King James and his court said so: therefore King James is their god.

daq say's those that read the King James version of the bible, worship King James, don't believe the truth when they see it, will lie to you, and that King James is their God.


A pair of black adder vipers latching on to anyone who stirs up their wood pile:
Not knowing they have already been shaken off into the fire ...




It shall not be a fire to be warmed by ...




When shown his wrongs, all he can do is spew out more of the same.

daq

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Re: 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2012, 07:44:35 AM »
When shown his wrongs, all he can do is spew out more of the same.

I would have loved to see the look on the face of the search & rescue dog, after it crawled through the wreck of the Costa Concordia only to find itself in a cabin with two Koreans.

Italian Police are still interviewing the Korean Honeymoon couple found on the Costa Concordia as to the whereabouts of the rescue dog that first found them.

::youmakemesick::  ::puking::

The only thing you have proven is that you are indeed completely naked. What kind of person thinks it is appropriate and clean to tell jokes in a Christian forum about people that recently died in a capsized cruise ship accident? What kind of person uses that same context to make racial slurs about a Korean couple eating the search and rescue dog that found them? That kind of garbage would normally not even be appropriate in a worldly forum for just about any non-believing category one can imagine. What happened to you? Did you already get banned from all the atheist forums? The only thing you prove is that you are either spiritually dead, having never been regenerated, or that you are of the twice dead kind.

2 Peter 2:17-22 KJV
17. These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18. For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, the dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

thethinker

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Re: 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2012, 07:52:25 AM »
1Th 5:23  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

preserved is "tereo" in the greek, it means to "guard, keep"
but it's not just be preserved, it's "be preserved blameless"

kept blameless, and it's not just for those Paul was talking to through his letter, it's also for christians today who read that same letter.

The word "blamesess" is erroneous translation. The the Greek means "integrated."

Illustration: If the foundation of a house gets a crack in it we say that its integrity has been compromised because a disintegration or separation has occurred.

Paul said that their BODY, soul and spirit would be kept (preserved) integrated until the Lord's coming. This means that their BODY, soul and spirit would NOT be separated by anything including death. Therefore, their corporeal lives would remain until the Lord's coming.

Paul told them in his second epistle that they would get relief from THEIR persecutions "when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven."

If the Lord did not return from heaven to give THEM relief AS PROMISED, then He cannot be trusted.

It couldn't be more clear!

thinker

inthenow

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Re: 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2012, 03:50:06 PM »
1Th 5:23  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

preserved is "tereo" in the greek, it means to "guard, keep"
but it's not just be preserved, it's "be preserved blameless"

kept blameless, and it's not just for those Paul was talking to through his letter, it's also for christians today who read that same letter.

The word "blamesess" is erroneous translation. The the Greek means "integrated."

Illustration: If the foundation of a house gets a crack in it we say that its integrity has been compromised because a disintegration or separation has occurred.

Paul said that their BODY, soul and spirit would be kept (preserved) integrated until the Lord's coming. This means that their BODY, soul and spirit would NOT be separated by anything including death. Therefore, their corporeal lives would remain until the Lord's coming.

Paul told them in his second epistle that they would get relief from THEIR persecutions "when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven."

If the Lord did not return from heaven to give THEM relief AS PROMISED, then He cannot be trusted.

It couldn't be more clear!

thinker
Clear as mud.
Tell your mate daq that a joke is just a joke, whether funny or not.  ::nodding::

inthenow

  • Guest
Re: 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2012, 03:57:06 PM »
daq:
The only thing you have proven is that you are indeed completely naked
Did you already get banned from all the atheist forums?
you are either spiritually dead, having never been regenerated,
or that you are of the twice dead kind.

It wasn't the best joke i agree, but all of the accusations daq, post after post, are you the accuser? you know you take after him.

thethinker

  • Guest
Re: 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2012, 07:59:04 AM »
1Th 5:23  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

preserved is "tereo" in the greek, it means to "guard, keep"
but it's not just be preserved, it's "be preserved blameless"

kept blameless, and it's not just for those Paul was talking to through his letter, it's also for christians today who read that same letter.

The word "blamesess" is erroneous translation. The the Greek means "integrated."

Illustration: If the foundation of a house gets a crack in it we say that its integrity has been compromised because a disintegration or separation has occurred.

Paul said that their BODY, soul and spirit would be kept (preserved) integrated until the Lord's coming. This means that their BODY, soul and spirit would NOT be separated by anything including death. Therefore, their corporeal lives would remain until the Lord's coming.

Paul told them in his second epistle that they would get relief from THEIR persecutions "when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven."

If the Lord did not return from heaven to give THEM relief AS PROMISED, then He cannot be trusted.

It couldn't be more clear!

thinker
Clear as mud.
Tell your mate daq that a joke is just a joke, whether funny or not.  ::nodding::

Why do you deny the scriptures? Did not Paul PROMISE the Thessalonians that THEY would get relief from THEIR persecutions "when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven"?

Quote
We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.


In verse 7 Paul CLEARLY said that God would give them rest from their persecutions "when the Lord Jesus is revealed form heaven." Why do you disobey this word? And how can you expext that God will keep a promise to you if He broke His promise to the Thessalonians? If Jesus did not come back from heaven and deliver them AS PROMISED, then you have nothing by way of assurance. Why can't you understand this?

You have LOST the argument!

thinker




inthenow

  • Guest
Re: 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2012, 05:02:38 PM »
thethinker:
Why do you deny the scriptures?
Why do you disobey this word?

Ha ha, when you and others of like mind have nothing, which is often, then you accuse, it's the way of some, however not God's way.
It's your interpertation of scriptures that I deny.

You are wrong, the Lord Jesus hasn't yet been revealed from heaven.


thethinker:
You have LOST the argument!

thinker

No arguments there, just the typical accusations of denying scripture and his Word, because you believe Christ came in ad70 abouts, and I believe it's still future.

Rev_12:10  And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Some are just like him.