Author Topic: Hey Futurists! Proof that the Revelation is NOT Literal  (Read 8443 times)

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thethinker

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Re: Hey Futurists! Proof that the Revelation is NOT Literal
« Reply #120 on: February 29, 2012, 02:47:58 PM »
Warrior said:
Quote
This man uses all these details when he spits out scripture but didn't see where he points out in Rev.14:14 where it says
One (LIKE) the Son of Man NOT THEE SON OF MAN/Jesus!This man doesn't understand either that Christ will help Michael & the 10,000 angels throw those who are with the beast(kings & armies) who took the mark & worshiped his image along with the false prophet & the beast into the Lake of Fire(Rev. 19:19 & 20) & not into some winepress of the wrath of God(Rev.14:19)!



First, the word "homoios" means "resembling." John saw one who resembled the Son of Man because He was the Son of Man.

Second, the Son of Man was to thrust His sickle to reap the harvest because the "earth is RIPE."

Jesus said that the harvest was READY,

"The fields are white READY TO HARVEST" (John 4:35).

Furthermore, Jesus said to not say that the harvest is future:

" Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are ALREADY white for harvest! John 4:35 

Third, Jesus said that the "angels" of the harvest were MEN. The word "angel" simply means "messenger" whether spirits or men. The reapers were to be men:

"Then He said to His disciples, 'The harvest truly is plentiful, but the laborers are few. 38 Therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest.' "

Fourth, the harvest was the judgment and Jesus said that the judgment was NOW.

"NOW is the judgment of this world. NOW is the prince of this world cast out."



Warrior is the blind leading the blind.



thinker


Offline WarriorUvChrist

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Re: Hey Futurists! Proof that the Revelation is NOT Literal
« Reply #121 on: March 01, 2012, 05:38:00 PM »
Warrior said:
Quote
This man uses all these details when he spits out scripture but didn't see where he points out in Rev.14:14 where it says
One (LIKE) the Son of Man NOT THEE SON OF MAN/Jesus!This man doesn't understand either that Christ will help Michael & the 10,000 angels throw those who are with the beast(kings & armies) who took the mark & worshiped his image along with the false prophet & the beast into the Lake of Fire(Rev. 19:19 & 20) & not into some winepress of the wrath of God(Rev.14:19)!




thinker




You going to say something to the other members that just dogged you out from this post! No because they even just ripped you but you only have problems with new members apparantly! You don't like the new guy on the block that stands up to you & knows you're full of it! Who's the blind leading the blind when you don't look or read the Bible or Revelations right! You say that Christians or you shouldn't read Revelations LITERALLY but you read any other Book in the Bible LITERALLY...you make alot of sense!

Touche' or like AsAChild said Regards!
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 07:59:55 PM by WarriorUvChrist »

Offline JohnDB70X7

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Re: Hey Futurists! Proof that the Revelation is NOT Literal
« Reply #122 on: March 01, 2012, 06:58:10 PM »
To our Futurist friends,

Here is CONCLUSIVE evidence that the Revelation is not literal. First, the opening statement of the book CLEARLY says that that Christ gave the Revelation through His messenger in SYMBOLS. It says that Jesus "SIGNIFIED" it through His messenger (vs. 1). I have said this many times here.

Second, I offer you one of several IRREFUTABLE examples that show that the Revelation cannot be literal.

The book says that Christ will judge by thrusting His sickle and sitting on a white cloud (14:14-16). This is the judgment at the end of the age.

The book also says that Christ will judge sitting on a white horse with a sharp sword in His mouth. This is also the judgment at the end of the age.


These visions CANNOT be taken literally. Christ cannot literally judge sitting on a cloud and on a horse at the same time.

Note that He is not on the earth in either vision. He is sitting "on a cloud" thrusting His sickle and sitting on a horse "in heaven" (the sky).

In both visions the judgment does NOT take place on the earth.

Jesus said that they would see the SIGN of the Son of Man "IN THE SKY" (Matthew 24:30).

Read it and weep our Futurist friends!

thinker



This is the typical snottiness from Preterists I have encountered over the years. A condescending (you futurists are a bunch of idiots) here's mud in your eye kind of conversation... In other words the Sith have risen against their last defeat...  ::lightsabre:: Time to kick some dark side fanny...

Offline JohnDB70X7

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Re: Hey Futurists! Proof that the Revelation is NOT Literal
« Reply #123 on: March 01, 2012, 07:01:02 PM »
Preterists must resort to this kind of "superior" looking down their noses at the futurists to infer fallibility in the futurist doctrine that ain't there... its an old Sith mind trick.  

I debated Ken Gentry and Gary DeMar on the old Crosstalk radio show on KBRT (on to different occasions) over the phone and was cut off both times by then host Rich Agozino... which means I was doing pretty good if Agozino (one of them) had to cut me off rather than risk embarrassing his guests or tarnish that which drew their blind faith... Preterism.

For you see, they will rant and rave about figures of speech in part of scripture and then hold to Gospel truth what is obviously a figure of speech. Both Gentry and DeMar balked at
 
2 Peter 3:8 (KJV)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Which devastates their arguments based on vague statements in the Bible like "soon, near, at hand..." Soon, near, at hand on whose calendar? To God, Moses led the Jews out of Egypt five days ago.

Anyway this character will rail on about what he found in the playpen to carry on about and draw literal conclusions from passages like "this generation will not pass till all these things are accomplished in Luke 21.

The question is, is this referring to that generation Jesus spoke to? Or to the generation the author of Luke spoke to (Luke and Acts are believed to be Paul's trial documents as investigated and gathered by Dr. Luke while Paul was in prison roughly 66 CE).

This same speech is recorded in Matthew's Gospel which includes a bigger reference to a parabolic figure (the fig tree). Jesus HAD to be speaking prophetically since even 70 CE was 40 years off at the time he was speaking. So the conditions had to include all of what he was referring to and not just a personalized interpretation.

2 Peter 1:20-21 (KJV)
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Hosea 9:10 (KJV)
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

Matthew 24:29-34 (KJV)
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


The tender branch is the regathering of the Jews to the Holy Land (Ezekiel 37:1-8) and the putting forth leaves is the futile religious acts and ceremonies (which Christ fulfilled in his ministry and suffering symbolized by the cursing of the fig tree Mark 13:11-23). The first religioius act of mankind was to cover the sin of their nakedness with fig leaves (Genesis 3:7 rule of first mention).

When Jesus spoke this the Temple was still standing. How could it become tender (be reinstituted) and carry out Levitical sacrificial law as some sort of sign when there was no break in that sanctuary service from 30CE to 70CE ?

« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 07:26:12 PM by JohnDB70X7 »

Lehigh

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Re: Hey Futurists! Proof that the Revelation is NOT Literal
« Reply #124 on: March 01, 2012, 07:34:19 PM »
To our Futurist friends,

Here is CONCLUSIVE evidence that the Revelation is not literal. First, the opening statement of the book CLEARLY says that that Christ gave the Revelation through His messenger in SYMBOLS. It says that Jesus "SIGNIFIED" it through His messenger (vs. 1). I have said this many times here.

Second, I offer you one of several IRREFUTABLE examples that show that the Revelation cannot be literal.

The book says that Christ will judge by thrusting His sickle and sitting on a white cloud (14:14-16). This is the judgment at the end of the age.

The book also says that Christ will judge sitting on a white horse with a sharp sword in His mouth. This is also the judgment at the end of the age.


These visions CANNOT be taken literally. Christ cannot literally judge sitting on a cloud and on a horse at the same time.

Note that He is not on the earth in either vision. He is sitting "on a cloud" thrusting His sickle and sitting on a horse "in heaven" (the sky).

In both visions the judgment does NOT take place on the earth.

Jesus said that they would see the SIGN of the Son of Man "IN THE SKY" (Matthew 24:30).

Read it and weep our Futurist friends!

thinker



This is the typical snottiness from Preterists I have encountered over the years. A condescending (you futurists are a bunch of idiots) here's mud in your eye kind of conversation... In other words the Sith have risen against their last defeat...  ::lightsabre:: Time to kick some dark side fanny...

 Reality is that Revelation describes figuratively, events that literally took place. 
Christ pointed to the great tribulation to come upon the Jews, that contemporary, "wicked generation" clearly in the gospels. The "Revelation of Jesus Christ" was for the Jews, of which "every eye would see Him" at the right hand of Power, coming on the clouds of glory, for judgment.


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Re: Hey Futurists! Proof that the Revelation is NOT Literal
« Reply #124 on: March 01, 2012, 07:34:19 PM »



Offline WarriorUvChrist

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Re: Hey Futurists! Proof that the Revelation is NOT Literal
« Reply #125 on: March 01, 2012, 07:57:50 PM »
To our Futurist friends,

Here is CONCLUSIVE evidence that the Revelation is not literal. First, the opening statement of the book CLEARLY says that that Christ gave the Revelation through His messenger in SYMBOLS. It says that Jesus "SIGNIFIED" it through His messenger (vs. 1). I have said this many times here.

Second, I offer you one of several IRREFUTABLE examples that show that the Revelation cannot be literal.

The book says that Christ will judge by thrusting His sickle and sitting on a white cloud (14:14-16). This is the judgment at the end of the age.

The book also says that Christ will judge sitting on a white horse with a sharp sword in His mouth. This is also the judgment at the end of the age.


These visions CANNOT be taken literally. Christ cannot literally judge sitting on a cloud and on a horse at the same time.

Note that He is not on the earth in either vision. He is sitting "on a cloud" thrusting His sickle and sitting on a horse "in heaven" (the sky).

In both visions the judgment does NOT take place on the earth.

Jesus said that they would see the SIGN of the Son of Man "IN THE SKY" (Matthew 24:30).

Read it and weep our Futurist friends!

thinker



This is the typical snottiness from Preterists I have encountered over the years. A condescending (you futurists are a bunch of idiots) here's mud in your eye kind of conversation... In other words the Sith have risen against their last defeat...  ::lightsabre:: Time to kick some dark side fanny...



Thank You my Christian Brother,i'm tired of this guy trying to make me look like I don't love Jesus or that i'm the one being the deceiver!

Offline WarriorUvChrist

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Re: Hey Futurists! Proof that the Revelation is NOT Literal
« Reply #126 on: March 01, 2012, 08:02:04 PM »
Preterists must resort to this kind of "superior" looking down their noses at the futurists to infer fallibility in the futurist doctrine that ain't there... its an old Sith mind trick.  

I debated Ken Gentry and Gary DeMar on the old Crosstalk radio show on KBRT (on to different occasions) over the phone and was cut off both times by then host Rich Agozino... which means I was doing pretty good if Agozino (one of them) had to cut me off rather than risk embarrassing his guests or tarnish that which drew their blind faith... Preterism.

For you see, they will rant and rave about figures of speech in part of scripture and then hold to Gospel truth what is obviously a figure of speech. Both Gentry and DeMar balked at
 
2 Peter 3:8 (KJV)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Which devastates their arguments based on vague statements in the Bible like "soon, near, at hand..." Soon, near, at hand on whose calendar? To God, Moses led the Jews out of Egypt five days ago.

Anyway this character will rail on about what he found in the playpen to carry on about and draw literal conclusions from passages like "this generation will not pass till all these things are accomplished in Luke 21.

The question is, is this referring to that generation Jesus spoke to? Or to the generation the author of Luke spoke to (Luke and Acts are believed to be Paul's trial documents as investigated and gathered by Dr. Luke while Paul was in prison roughly 66 CE).

This same speech is recorded in Matthew's Gospel which includes a bigger reference to a parabolic figure (the fig tree). Jesus HAD to be speaking prophetically since even 70 CE was 40 years off at the time he was speaking. So the conditions had to include all of what he was referring to and not just a personalized interpretation.

2 Peter 1:20-21 (KJV)
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Hosea 9:10 (KJV)
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

Matthew 24:29-34 (KJV)
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


The tender branch is the regathering of the Jews to the Holy Land (Ezekiel 37:1-8) and the putting forth leaves is the futile religious acts and ceremonies (which Christ fulfilled in his ministry and suffering symbolized by the cursing of the fig tree Mark 13:11-23). The first religioius act of mankind was to cover the sin of their nakedness with fig leaves (Genesis 3:7 rule of first mention).

When Jesus spoke this the Temple was still standing. How could it become tender (be reinstituted) and carry out Levitical sacrificial law as some sort of sign when there was no break in that sanctuary service from 30CE to 70CE ?




Thank You again friend! I've added manna to you on the 1st one & will add to this one when they allow me to!

inthenow

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Re: Hey Futurists! Proof that the Revelation is NOT Literal
« Reply #127 on: March 01, 2012, 10:20:35 PM »
To our Futurist friends,

Here is CONCLUSIVE evidence that the Revelation is not literal. First, the opening statement of the book CLEARLY says that that Christ gave the Revelation through His messenger in SYMBOLS. It says that Jesus "SIGNIFIED" it through His messenger (vs. 1). I have said this many times here.

Second, I offer you one of several IRREFUTABLE examples that show that the Revelation cannot be literal.

The book says that Christ will judge by thrusting His sickle and sitting on a white cloud (14:14-16). This is the judgment at the end of the age.

The book also says that Christ will judge sitting on a white horse with a sharp sword in His mouth. This is also the judgment at the end of the age.


These visions CANNOT be taken literally. Christ cannot literally judge sitting on a cloud and on a horse at the same time.

Note that He is not on the earth in either vision. He is sitting "on a cloud" thrusting His sickle and sitting on a horse "in heaven" (the sky).

In both visions the judgment does NOT take place on the earth.

Jesus said that they would see the SIGN of the Son of Man "IN THE SKY" (Matthew 24:30).

Read it and weep our Futurist friends!

thinker



This is the typical snottiness from Preterists I have encountered over the years. A condescending (you futurists are a bunch of idiots) here's mud in your eye kind of conversation... In other words the Sith have risen against their last defeat...  ::lightsabre:: Time to kick some dark side fanny...



Thank You my Christian Brother,i'm tired of this guy trying to make me look like I don't love Jesus or that i'm the one being the deceiver!

And thethinker isn't the only preterist here like that, given time they will say all sorts of evil about you.

thethinker

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Re: Hey Futurists! Proof that the Revelation is NOT Literal
« Reply #128 on: March 02, 2012, 02:56:44 AM »
Warrior said:
Quote
This man uses all these details when he spits out scripture but didn't see where he points out in Rev.14:14 where it says
One (LIKE) the Son of Man NOT THEE SON OF MAN/Jesus!This man doesn't understand either that Christ will help Michael & the 10,000 angels throw those who are with the beast(kings & armies) who took the mark & worshiped his image along with the false prophet & the beast into the Lake of Fire(Rev. 19:19 & 20) & not into some winepress of the wrath of God(Rev.14:19)!




thinker



Answer my post please.

thinker


You going to say something to the other members that just dogged you out from this post! No because they even just ripped you but you only have problems with new members apparantly! You don't like the new guy on the block that stands up to you & knows you're full of it! Who's the blind leading the blind when you don't look or read the Bible or Revelations right! You say that Christians or you shouldn't read Revelations LITERALLY but you read any other Book in the Bible LITERALLY...you make alot of sense!

Touche' or like AsAChild said Regards!

thethinker

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Re: Hey Futurists! Proof that the Revelation is NOT Literal
« Reply #129 on: March 02, 2012, 02:59:54 AM »
To our Futurist friends,

Here is CONCLUSIVE evidence that the Revelation is not literal. First, the opening statement of the book CLEARLY says that that Christ gave the Revelation through His messenger in SYMBOLS. It says that Jesus "SIGNIFIED" it through His messenger (vs. 1). I have said this many times here.

Second, I offer you one of several IRREFUTABLE examples that show that the Revelation cannot be literal.

The book says that Christ will judge by thrusting His sickle and sitting on a white cloud (14:14-16). This is the judgment at the end of the age.

The book also says that Christ will judge sitting on a white horse with a sharp sword in His mouth. This is also the judgment at the end of the age.


These visions CANNOT be taken literally. Christ cannot literally judge sitting on a cloud and on a horse at the same time.

Note that He is not on the earth in either vision. He is sitting "on a cloud" thrusting His sickle and sitting on a horse "in heaven" (the sky).

In both visions the judgment does NOT take place on the earth.

Jesus said that they would see the SIGN of the Son of Man "IN THE SKY" (Matthew 24:30).

Read it and weep our Futurist friends!

thinker



This is the typical snottiness from Preterists I have encountered over the years. A condescending (you futurists are a bunch of idiots) here's mud in your eye kind of conversation... In other words the Sith have risen against their last defeat...  ::lightsabre:: Time to kick some dark side fanny...


Hey man! Warrior claims to be a prophet of God. One can't get more "snotty" than that. I'm just trying to bring him back down to earth.

thinker

thethinker

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Re: Hey Futurists! Proof that the Revelation is NOT Literal
« Reply #130 on: March 02, 2012, 03:13:07 AM »
Johndbx wrote:
Quote
2 Peter 3:8 (KJV)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Which devastates their arguments based on vague statements in the Bible like "soon, near, at hand..." Soon, near, at hand on whose calendar? To God, Moses led the Jews out of Egypt five days ago.

Therefore, to God the milllennium is only "one day" and I don't have to take it literally because TO GOD a thousand years is only one day.

Peter did NOT say that a thousand years IS one day or that one day IS a thousand years. He said that a thousand years is AS one day and that one day is AS a thousand years.

Furthermore, in Ezekiel the people were explicitly told by God that "at hand" means "in YOUR days" (Ezekiel 12:21-28). Show us when the meaning of the term "at hand" changed. Jesus said, "he who betrays me is AT HAND."

You are totally butchering up the scriptures!

 If you have applied Peter's statement corrrectly, then the heavens and the earth were created in six thousand years because one day IS a thousand years TO GOD. The milllennium is only one day because a thousand years is one day to God.

If you have applied Peter correctly, then I don't have to take anything in the Bible literally.


thinker

thethinker

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Re: Hey Futurists! Proof that the Revelation is NOT Literal
« Reply #131 on: March 02, 2012, 03:18:41 AM »
Johndbx said:
Quote
Preterists must resort to this kind of "superior" looking down their noses at the futurists to infer fallibility in the futurist doctrine that ain't there... its an old Sith mind trick.

Again I say that Warrior claims to be a prophet of God. No one could have a superiority complex more than one who claims to be a prophet of God. I'm just trying to keep him in check.

thinker

thethinker

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Re: Hey Futurists! Proof that the Revelation is NOT Literal
« Reply #132 on: March 02, 2012, 03:22:20 AM »
Warrior said:
Quote
Thank You my Christian Brother,i'm tired of this guy trying to make me look like I don't love Jesus or that i'm the one being the deceiver!

inthenow replied:
Quote
And thethinker isn't the only preterist here like that, given time they will say all sorts of evil about you.

What have I said about Warriior that is "evil"? Warrior claims to be a prophet of God and therefore he should expect harsh criticism for it.

thinker














Offline JohnDB70X7

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Re: Hey Futurists! Proof that the Revelation is NOT Literal
« Reply #133 on: March 02, 2012, 05:49:52 PM »
Calm down.

There was evening and there was morning. The first day. The literal 24 hour day was being spoken of in creation. Not the 1000 year days as you claim. Once again, your knowledge of scripture is showing itself to be limited.

Soon near at hand to God can be many thousands of years to us. You cannot shake this truth, thinker... you just think you can.

2 Peter 3:8 (NKJV)
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Quoting the scriptures is not butchering them. Misinterpreting the scriptures as Preterists do IS butchering them.


Johndbx wrote:
Quote
2 Peter 3:8 (KJV)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Which devastates their arguments based on vague statements in the Bible like "soon, near, at hand..." Soon, near, at hand on whose calendar? To God, Moses led the Jews out of Egypt five days ago.

Therefore, to God the milllennium is only "one day" and I don't have to take it literally because TO GOD a thousand years is only one day.

Peter did NOT say that a thousand years IS one day or that one day IS a thousand years. He said that a thousand years is AS one day and that one day is AS a thousand years.

Furthermore, in Ezekiel the people were explicitly told by God that "at hand" means "in YOUR days" (Ezekiel 12:21-28). Show us when the meaning of the term "at hand" changed. Jesus said, "he who betrays me is AT HAND."

You are totally butchering up the scriptures!

 If you have applied Peter's statement corrrectly, then the heavens and the earth were created in six thousand years because one day IS a thousand years TO GOD. The milllennium is only one day because a thousand years is one day to God.

If you have applied Peter correctly, then I don't have to take anything in the Bible literally.


thinker

Offline JohnDB70X7

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Re: Hey Futurists! Proof that the Revelation is NOT Literal
« Reply #134 on: March 02, 2012, 05:52:17 PM »

If you have applied Peter correctly, then I don't have to take anything in the Bible literally.[/color]

thinker

You have much to learn...

I have applied it correctly and the days of creation I showed you the context how they are not thousand year days.

Is there anything else you need to learn about the Bible?