Author Topic: How soon is "soon?"  (Read 15797 times)

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Offline Stormcrow

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How soon is "soon?"
« on: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 01:19:39 »
But I will come to you soon...1 Corinthians 4:19 (NASB)
Make every effort to come to me soon...2 Timothy 4:9 (NASB)
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. Romans 16:20 (NASB)

When Paul wrote the words "soon", cited above, is there any reason to believe he meant them to mean 2,000 years?

If not, why do people - seeing the plain text of John's letters - think he means 2,000 years when he writes the following?

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, Revelation 1:1 (NASB)

And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place. Revelation 22:6 (NASB)

Did the word "soon" mean something other to John than it meant to Paul?  Did God know the day and the hour of Christ's parousia, and if so, why did He tell John to write "soon" if "soon" meant 2,000 years later, when Revelation would mean nothing to the people living when it was written?

When you tell someone you'll see them soon, do you mean thousands of years later?  When you tell someone dinner will be ready soon, do you mean in a couple of thousand years?

Why do you think "soon" means something other to John than it does to you?

Next time you tell someone, "Jesus is coming soon", think about what that word "soon" meant to the men who wrote it into the Bible under the inspiration and direction of God, then ask yourself if you really know what that word even means.   ::pondering::

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How soon is "soon?"
« on: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 01:19:39 »

Offline raggthyme13

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #1 on: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 01:47:28 »
 ::reading::
« Last Edit: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 03:35:23 by raggthyme13 »

Offline chosenone

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #2 on: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 03:15:39 »
Soon to God isn't the same as soon to us. In relation to the age of the universe, 2000 years is nothing.

Offline Stormcrow

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #3 on: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 03:24:04 »
Soon to God isn't the same as soon to us. In relation to the age of the universe, 2000 years is nothing.

So God inspired Paul to write "soon" as meaning a few weeks or months, but told John to write "soon" meaning 2,000+ years. 

So tell me, if a thousand years is as a day to God, how many years did Jesus spend in the grave?   ::pondering::

Offline Stormcrow

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #4 on: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 03:35:16 »
Quote
Soon to God isn't the same as soon to us.

So then God is either incapable of communicating to us in terms we can understand, or He doesn't care to do so???

Did God mean thousands of years when He told John to write this?

~'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. Revelation 2:10 (NASB)

To whom did John write that?  Did God really mean 10 days, or 10,000 years?  And by your logic, how can we possibly know???   ::applause::

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #4 on: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 03:35:16 »



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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #5 on: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 03:41:48 »
But I will come to you soon...1 Corinthians 4:19 (NASB)
Make every effort to come to me soon...2 Timothy 4:9 (NASB)
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. Romans 16:20 (NASB)

When Paul wrote the words "soon", cited above, is there any reason to believe he meant them to mean 2,000 years?

If not, why do people - seeing the plain text of John's letters - think he means 2,000 years when he writes the following?

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, Revelation 1:1 (NASB)

And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place. Revelation 22:6 (NASB)

Did the word "soon" mean something other to John than it meant to Paul?  Did God know the day and the hour of Christ's parousia, and if so, why did He tell John to write "soon" if "soon" meant 2,000 years later, when Revelation would mean nothing to the people living when it was written?

When you tell someone you'll see them soon, do you mean thousands of years later?  When you tell someone dinner will be ready soon, do you mean in a couple of thousand years?

Why do you think "soon" means something other to John than it does to you?

Next time you tell someone, "Jesus is coming soon", think about what that word "soon" meant to the men who wrote it into the Bible under the inspiration and direction of God, then ask yourself if you really know what that word even means.   ::pondering::

Well, for each of us personally, with an average life expectancy of 75 years or so...Jesus will show up soon.

Offline chosenone

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #6 on: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 04:25:59 »
Quote
Soon to God isn't the same as soon to us.

So then God is either incapable of communicating to us in terms we can understand, or He doesn't care to do so???

Did God mean thousands of years when He told John to write this?

~'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. Revelation 2:10 (NASB)

To whom did John write that?  Did God really mean 10 days, or 10,000 years?  And by your logic, how can we possibly know???   ::applause::
 

That's up to God surely? All we need to do is to trust Him.

Offline Stormcrow

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #7 on: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 04:36:38 »
Quote
That's up to God surely? All we need to do is to trust Him.

How do you trust a God that doesn't say what He means and means what He says?   ::pondering::

If you intend to participate in the discussion, please try answer direct questions addressed to you.  To whom did John write Revelation 2:10 and how do you know those things were "about to" happen to his readers?  If a day is a thousand years to God, did 10 days mean 10,000 years to them?  What is the secret code people use to understand what God meant?
« Last Edit: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 04:41:25 by Stormcrow »

Offline Bible Linker

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #8 on: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 06:28:46 »
"Well, for each of us personally, with an average life expectancy of 75 years or so...Jesus will show up soon"


This is a good rebuttal to the preterist who does not trust God .... the scoffers of the last days

The behavior has been ongoing since the early days of the professing "church" and is still a part of the doctrinal teachings of many in many ways .... and today even more pervasive .... the idea that the literal content of the Bible is irrelevant and must be changed by men who would venture to do this ... or even totally ignored
   
Do not listen to them .... their babbling is against the Lord's imminent intervention which He has left to own discretion and not to mortals

The Lord lives eternally and there is no time passing for Him

His very intent to tarry is a deliberate testing for the scoffer

Allegorical preterism is not the gospel of Jesus Christ, but the teaching of a disconcerted man who has no hope

There is a place for this off course religion on the forum and that is where those who carry it should stay ... most Christian message boards will not even allow

Those who engage in this "Christian" mimic are so blinded that it is next to impossible for their recourse and recovery .... I call it the iron cult craft of sinister forces

When they are confronted they will rail at you with all sorts of condescending remarks .... and when ignored, they will get board and begin their wailing just as the scriptures describe

Witnessing the truth to them is almost always an exercise in futility .... but who knows? .... someday a turning may come .... only the Lord knows and He waits .... and they scoff .... but the day will come when the scoffer will be silenced

All who test the integrity of the Lord will pay the price           
« Last Edit: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 06:39:52 by Bible Linker »

Offline Stormcrow

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #9 on: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 11:12:53 »
Quote
Quote
"Well, for each of us personally, with an average life expectancy of 75 years or so...Jesus will show up soon"

This is a good rebuttal to the preterist who does not trust God .... the scoffers of the last days

Actually, it is not, as I was asking specifically about Christ's parousia: an event that Christ promised both disciples and enemies that some of them would live to see.

We'll all meet Christ when we die.  That's not the point of His promise to come soon to John and the seven churches of Asia.

"And behold, I am coming quickly [soon]. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book." Revelation 22:7 (NASB)

And he *said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Revelation 22:10 (NASB)

"Behold, I am coming quickly [soon], and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. Revelation 22:12 (NASB)

He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly [soon]." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. Revelation 22:20 (NASB)

So how is John's use of the word "soon" any different than Paul's use of the word "soon?"  You can disparage preterists all you like, but it doesn't change the nature of this question people - like you - continue to avoid.   ::frown::

Offline Stormcrow

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #10 on: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 11:24:23 »
Quote
The Lord lives eternally and there is no time passing for Him

Human beings don't.  So why would Christ tell them He would come while some of them were still alive???

Why would He tell John to write, repeatedly, that He was coming soon?

Did the God who created time not know how to tell time?  Did He not know how to communicate it to us???

How is John's understanding or use of the word "soon" any different than Paul's???

Offline Bible Linker

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #11 on: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 11:50:42 »
He did not say He would "come" while some of them were alive .... He gave them a vision of what is to come ..... you do not understand Him at all .... do you think this is possible? did He give His prophets visions of things to come? .... He did

You must understand that there are some who actually have a comprehensive and correct rendering of His Word .... and the same you cannot fool regarding any truth .... maybe as you have been fooled by your preterist mentors

Time is passing for you crow .... and you have not much more to linger

Like a vapor this life is just waiting to pass, like the flowers that fade, like the withering grass

The grave is an impossible potion for you to cheat crow .... and in a flash your life will be over quickly, soon .... get it

And once over, you will be at the end and must stand before Him .... in a heart beat

Better be ready .... He is coming to scrutinize your standing much faster than you think

.... and He knows how to count all of your days ..... a mere single blip on His radar

You cannot count His
« Last Edit: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 12:01:31 by Bible Linker »

Offline raggthyme13

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #12 on: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 13:10:11 »
Stormcrow,

I changed my post to ::reading:: because even though I do read "soon" to mean at hand to those who were living when the revelation was written, there are things I just cannot of late reconcile. I suppose I cannot honestly take the full-preterist position, and here's why: I believe that it is appointed man once to die, and after this comes judgment. That would mean there is still something future that we await.. and we each will answer for every idle word spoken.

While I agree with you that "soon" must have a meaning by which those who heard the message could measure time within their own existence, it seems there must be some things in the book that have yet to happen. Not that I am opposed to your position, I'm just trying to figure how it all fits together.

I fear the Lord in saying that not one thing is future, that all is in the past.. because others look on here, and may take our words to say that there is no more judgment. If there is no judgment to come, there is no need for sinful man to repent and accept Jesus Christ as Savior.

That would be a very bad message to preach.
« Last Edit: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 13:13:12 by raggthyme13 »

Offline Stormcrow

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #13 on: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 18:40:05 »
Quote
He did not say He would "come" while some of them were alive...

"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:28 (NASB)

Jesus *said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN." Matthew 26:64 (NASB)

The Word disagrees with you.   ::frown::

Offline Stormcrow

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #14 on: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 18:44:51 »
Quote
I believe that it is appointed man once to die, and after this comes judgment. That would mean there is still something future that we await.. and we each will answer for every idle word spoken.

Don't confuse individual judgment with national judgment.  Christ's parousia involved both.   ::bowing::

Offline Stormcrow

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #15 on: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 18:50:42 »
Quote
"...others look on here, and may take our words to say that there is no more judgment. If there is no judgment to come, there is no need for sinful man to repent and accept Jesus Christ as Savior."

We will all face judgment when we die.  The point of Christ's parousia was that an entire nation was judged while it lived.

That is the point of the parable of the landowner (Matt. 21) and the point of the parable of the wheat and tares (Matt. 13).


Offline Stormcrow

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #16 on: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 18:54:13 »
Quote
You must understand that there are some who actually have a comprehensive and correct rendering of His Word

Assuming you're referring to yourself, then it should be very easy for you to address the questions I have put forth without your personal attacks on my character or salvation.  Answer the questions I have put forth, if you can, otherwise you're just so much bluster without any rain.   ::crackup::

Offline johnm

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #17 on: Sun Feb 16, 2014 - 21:36:14 »
<Did God mean thousands of years when He told John to write this?

~'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. Revelation 2:10 (NASB)>>

The number ten in scripture is similar to seven and probably differs only in tense. I reason thisconclusion after reading the relevant pages in EW Bullinger’s number in scripture. Bullinger didn’t treat Rev 2:10; 10 means divine order so the tribulation was divinely ordered, day by day. Bullinger gives these examples:

The words, “I have sinned”, are spoken by 10 Bible Characters:

Pharaoh        Exod.9:27 10:16
Balaam          Num. 22:34
Achan            Josh. 7:20
Saul                1 Sam. 15:24, 30; 26:21
David             2 Sam.  12:13; 24:10, 17; Chron. 21:8, 17; Pss. 41:4; 51:4
Shimei           2 Sam. 19:20
Hezekiah       2 Kings 18:14 (rendered “offended”)
Job                 7:20
Micah            7:9
Nehemiah     1:6
 

Offline Stormcrow

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #18 on: Mon Feb 17, 2014 - 03:45:07 »
So "ten days" means a literal "10 days" everywhere but in the Bible???   ::pondering::

Offline Stormcrow

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #19 on: Mon Feb 17, 2014 - 03:55:56 »
Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. 1 John 3:2 (NASB)

Who is the "we" to whom John repeatedly refers, and is he part of that group he calls "we?"   ::pondering::


Offline Bible Linker

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #20 on: Mon Feb 17, 2014 - 04:45:25 »
1 Corinthians
15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
Romans
8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.


And the experience on the mount was a vision of the future coming of Jesus Christ, not His coming in the past as the preterist so boldly claims

You are flying in dangerous territory crow .... there are those on this section of the forum who know how to shoot your preterism out of the sky .... the word of the Lord is a two edged sword .... if you know what I mean
« Last Edit: Mon Feb 17, 2014 - 04:52:52 by Bible Linker »

Offline johnm

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #21 on: Mon Feb 17, 2014 - 05:55:10 »
<<So "ten days" means a literal "10 days" everywhere but in the Bible???>>
 
It is silly to make rules that the Bible doesn't make but observations should be made; many people have observed that the Bible is full of patens like a tapestry and in the same way that many prophesies repeat frequently so do many other patens; if you are familiar with Ivan Panin's Bible numeric you would know that these patens go deep into the Bible texts in a way not found in secular writings in the Hebrew and Greek of the same era. Mind boggling stuff; how little we know of the semantic of the Bible.

Offline Bible Linker

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #22 on: Mon Feb 17, 2014 - 07:50:04 »
Where are Panin's interpretive instructions in scripture? .... I don't see him listed

Does this man used some brand of numerology for his study?

I would suggest that the Lord Himself is the better reveler and teacher

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #23 on: Mon Feb 17, 2014 - 18:20:00 »
<<Where are Panin's interpretive instructions in scripture? .... I don't see him listed

Does this man used some brand of numerology for his study?

I would suggest that the Lord Himself is the better reveler and teacher>>

Once again you have gone off half cocked. In as far as there is interpretive instruction in scripture, Panin would have been the most likely to notice it. What list did you look in?

I assume you don’t know of Panin; Panin starts as an Atheist Russian immigrant, at Harvard he was converted to Christianity and later became a Pentecostal Pastor; he graduated at Harvard in English Literature and Mathematics and was fluent in the Biblical Languages.

What Panin believed he proved was that the Bible could not have been written by men alone but there was a divine hand in the Bible writing; that the Bible is not prose but a metrical form of writing, differing to secular writing of the same era which was prose?

I am sure Panin would insist that it was God who revealed everything to him.  Panin used Mathematical statistics on the scriptures; the entire alphabet characters in Hebrew and Greek have numeric values. If you had read any of Panin’s writings you would realise he would not have anything to do with numerology or occult.

The material that I quoted was from EW Bullinger, who was a giant in the English Church and to call him occult would reflect more on the creditability of the accuser than the accused.  Panin took number in scripture further, was a personal friend of George Nobel  and was considered for a Nobel Prise; most of his work on Bible Numerics was handed over to the Nobel committee and not returned and is effectively lost.

I was introduced to Bible Numerics by Dispensationalists who used to say, “Bible Numerics prove that God wrote the Bible”. They could not have been aware that in Panin’s Booklet “The Gospel and the Kingdom”, Panin concludes, “Dispensationalism requires a new Gospel, a new Kingdom and a new Bible”.
 

Offline Stormcrow

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #24 on: Tue Feb 18, 2014 - 06:23:19 »
Quote
You are flying in dangerous territory crow .... there are those on this section of the forum who know how to shoot your preterism out of the sky .... the word of the Lord is a two edged sword .... if you know what I mean

Your insults and threats are childish and tiresome.  If you can't address the questions raised like an adult, don't bother.  Your posts here add nothing at all to the discussion.   ::frown::

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #25 on: Tue Feb 18, 2014 - 06:25:24 »
Quote
many people have observed that the Bible is full of patens

You don't need "patterns" when a plain-text reading of the text will do.   ::frown::

Offline Stormcrow

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #26 on: Tue Feb 18, 2014 - 06:26:32 »
It seems as though no one can or cares to address the issues raised in the original post of this thread.  I wonder why.   ::pondering::

Offline Stormcrow

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #27 on: Tue Feb 18, 2014 - 06:45:58 »
Quote
And the experience on the mount was a vision of the future coming of Jesus Christ, not His coming in the past as the preterist so boldly claims

So "soon" to Paul meant weeks but thousands of years to John?

How many years did Jesus spend in the grave if a day is as a thousand years to God?

Or was Revelation really written to you because God had nothing to say at all to the church 2,000 years ago???  Is that what you believe: that all prophecy revolves around you???

Let me clue you in on something: you weren't even a glimmer in the eye of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John when they were writing the NT.  None of us was!  So when John writes "WE" he is referring to himself and the group of people alive at the time he wrote this:

Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.  And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. 1 John 3:2-3 (NASB)

The promise of Christ's parousia was made to THEM, not US!!!  That promise is repeated, often, in the very last chapter of Revelation alone!  Paul believed as, John did, that Christ's coming would happen SOON!

The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you. Romans 16:20 (NASB)

The feet of the people to whom he is addressing belong to Roman believers living 2,000 years ago!  They are not YOUR feet!!!

Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:51 (NASB)

The WE to whom Paul writes is not YOU!  Paul, using the first person plural pronoun WE, includes himself in the group to whom he is writing, FULLY EXPECTING THE LORD'S RETURN WHILE SOME OF THEM STILL LIVED!!!  Why???  BECAUSE NO LESS THAN JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF TOLD HIS DISCIPLES SO!!!

"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:28 (NASB)

Now, what will you do with the Word and facts as presented???    ::pondering::

Offline Bible Linker

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #28 on: Tue Feb 18, 2014 - 07:25:49 »
Look upon them with knowing that your preterism has deceived you

The Lord always leaves His timing with regard to His next intervention un-revealed .... no one knows the dating .... and certainly not the preterists who are obviously wrong about a past occurrence

Many attempt to set datings for the event and all fail .... and so does preterism fail the testing

Preteristic thinking about this particular issue has gutted the scriptures of any future hope for you

At hand, soon, or near is the Lord's assurance that He will intervene without revealing the time [He is totally consistent with all scripture on this matter] .... and "soon" to Him means something very different .... He has no limitations related to time valuation as do humans .... this life is like a vapor just waiting to pass

The preteristic view is very shallow and earthly oriented crow

And you should be respectful of His willingness to tarry .... you think about this

The story you have been sold does just not match up related scripture with scripture

How many more humans have had the opportunity to be saved, including yourself? .... and believe He already has the number in mind 

And I must add that is see much disdain, anger, and defensiveness in your words

Concordance [Blue Letter Bible]

Outline of Biblical Usage
near, of place and position
near
those who are near access to God
Jews, as opposed to those who are alien from God and his blessings
The Rabbis used the term "to make nigh" as equivalent to "to make a proselyte"
of time
of times imminent and soon to come pass


Revelation
1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

1 Thessalonians
5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Acts
1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Matthew
25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

2 Peter
3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
« Last Edit: Tue Feb 18, 2014 - 08:44:33 by Bible Linker »

Offline Stormcrow

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #29 on: Tue Feb 18, 2014 - 08:42:37 »
Quote
no one knows the dating

God did, and He told John to write that Christ was coming soon using the same Greek word Paul used to write soon.

Yet soon to Paul didn't mean thousands of years.  Why do you insist that the same Greek word John used does?  It's because YOU and your ilk are the ones with the faulty interpretation!  The very fact that you have to stretch "soon" to mean 2,000 years is absurd on its face, yet that is what the lie you've been taught forces you to do: stretch the plain meaning of a simple word like "soon" into something unrecognizable!

Quote
Many attempt to set datings for the event and all fail

No, the preterist has the dating exactly right: Christ returned before His generation had passed, while some of His disciples (apostles) still lived!  That is what He promised.  That is what He did!  The fact that you deny this means you are the one at odds with the Word of Christ, not the preterist!

Quote
At hand, soon, or near is the Lord's assurance that He will intervene without revealing the time

He set the time: before His generation passed, while some of them still lived!  His words, not mine!

By the time the NT was written (all before 70 AD), the events He prophesied were a few short years from fulfillment.  In the case of Revelation, some of the prophecies were being fulfilled as John wrote it!  In the case of the gospel going into all the world, Paul said this was fulfilled 3 times in Romans and twice in Colossians!

"Soon" for John was a few months: NOT thousands of years!!!  John wrote "we."  Paul wrote "we."  YOU were not part of the group to whom John or Paul wrote!  The promise of Christ's second coming was not for YOU!!!

Quote
The preteristic view is very shallow and earthly oriented crow

The futuristic view is very shallow and self-deluded, link.   ::frown::

Quote
And I must add that is see much disdain, anger, and defensiveness in your words

You question my character and salvation then have the unmitigated gall to accuse me?!?!?   rofl

Offline fish153

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #30 on: Tue Feb 18, 2014 - 14:25:30 »
Quote
no one knows the dating

God did, and He told John to write that Christ was coming soon using the same Greek word Paul used to write soon.

Yet soon to Paul didn't mean thousands of years.  Why do you insist that the same Greek word John used does?  It's because YOU and your ilk are the ones with the faulty interpretation!  The very fact that you have to stretch "soon" to mean 2,000 years is absurd on its face, yet that is what the lie you've been taught forces you to do: stretch the plain meaning of a simple word like "soon" into something unrecognizable!

Quote
Many attempt to set datings for the event and all fail

No, the preterist has the dating exactly right: Christ returned before His generation had passed, while some of His disciples (apostles) still lived!  That is what He promised.  That is what He did!  The fact that you deny this means you are the one at odds with the Word of Christ, not the preterist!

Quote
At hand, soon, or near is the Lord's assurance that He will intervene without revealing the time

He set the time: before His generation passed, while some of them still lived!  His words, not mine!

By the time the NT was written (all before 70 AD), the events He prophesied were a few short years from fulfillment.  In the case of Revelation, some of the prophecies were being fulfilled as John wrote it!  In the case of the gospel going into all the world, Paul said this was fulfilled 3 times in Romans and twice in Colossians!

"Soon" for John was a few months: NOT thousands of years!!!  John wrote "we."  Paul wrote "we."  YOU were not part of the group to whom John or Paul wrote!  The promise of Christ's second coming was not for YOU!!!

Quote
The preteristic view is very shallow and earthly oriented crow

The futuristic view is very shallow and self-deluded, link.   ::frown::

Quote
And I must add that is see much disdain, anger, and defensiveness in your words

You question my character and salvation then have the unmitigated gall to accuse me?!?!?   rofl

Preterism is nonsense.  "Soon" to God could be tomorrow, a thousand years, or even a million years. To base the word "soon" on human time-tables is foolish indeed.  That is why Peter stated:

"But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance". (2 Peter 3:8,9)

"as some understand slowness"--could he be referring to people like preterists?  ::smile::

The Lord is returning soon. We need to lift up our heads and look for his glorious appearing---he has promised to return just as he left (see Acts 1).
« Last Edit: Tue Feb 18, 2014 - 14:28:21 by fish153 »

Offline Bible Linker

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #31 on: Tue Feb 18, 2014 - 15:34:37 »
Preterism is an absolute ruse surprisingly held by most of the professing sectors of the "church" today [in a subtle form and also by those of the militant aggressive strain] ..... this off course theology of men is not a new thing and was hatched in the early "church"

Most replacement theologies [those that discard Israel from a future national position] hold some form of exaggerated historical preterism

I believe that this teaching has satanic moorings since Satan is against the Lord and against His intents with regard to His coming intervention to bring not only judgment to an unbelieving world, but also to upend the devil himself in the process .... and I must persuade those engaged to move away from it, and to seek the Lord and His truth via His complete and inerrant Word found in the Bible
 
Satan has objective and has been hovering over the controversy since humans were first created with potential to gain eternal life which he has walked away from

So the professing "church" is certainly a place drawing draw off and snatching and even more advanced is the Muslim religion which I believe is Satan's most favored victory

Satan works in all sides and corners of the box of the various religions of men

.... but even then, it is the individual human who will be held accountable for the choices made, not the devil .... this one's fate is already written
 
The day of the Lord could come upon the world before this day is over .... I see nothing to prevent the beginning of this time frame, but He will tarry until the fullness of the Gentiles has been added to His ecclesia

The condition of the professing "church" is in shambles today and of extreme apostasy across the board .... and He already knows when to pull the plug .... and He will do it

And preterism is not the only form of diversion and deception that exists .... there are many brandings

Israel has returned as of recent in measurable numbers to the land and must be there to experience the coming time of Jacob's trouble just as the prophetic scriptures tell

And the tiny nation is surrounded by its virulent Muslim enemies .... just as the prophetic scriptures identify

However, the above setting could go on much longer .... but the day will come when the Lord will suddenly break in with no prior warning or any specific signage
« Last Edit: Tue Feb 18, 2014 - 16:36:23 by Bible Linker »

Offline raggthyme13

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #32 on: Tue Feb 18, 2014 - 18:08:10 »
Quote
no one knows the dating

God did, and He told John to write that Christ was coming soon using the same Greek word Paul used to write soon.

Yet soon to Paul didn't mean thousands of years.  Why do you insist that the same Greek word John used does?  It's because YOU and your ilk are the ones with the faulty interpretation!  The very fact that you have to stretch "soon" to mean 2,000 years is absurd on its face, yet that is what the lie you've been taught forces you to do: stretch the plain meaning of a simple word like "soon" into something unrecognizable!

Quote
Many attempt to set datings for the event and all fail

No, the preterist has the dating exactly right: Christ returned before His generation had passed, while some of His disciples (apostles) still lived!  That is what He promised.  That is what He did!  The fact that you deny this means you are the one at odds with the Word of Christ, not the preterist!

Quote
At hand, soon, or near is the Lord's assurance that He will intervene without revealing the time

He set the time: before His generation passed, while some of them still lived!  His words, not mine!

By the time the NT was written (all before 70 AD), the events He prophesied were a few short years from fulfillment.  In the case of Revelation, some of the prophecies were being fulfilled as John wrote it!  In the case of the gospel going into all the world, Paul said this was fulfilled 3 times in Romans and twice in Colossians!

"Soon" for John was a few months: NOT thousands of years!!!  John wrote "we."  Paul wrote "we."  YOU were not part of the group to whom John or Paul wrote!  The promise of Christ's second coming was not for YOU!!!

Quote
The preteristic view is very shallow and earthly oriented crow

The futuristic view is very shallow and self-deluded, link.   ::frown::

Quote
And I must add that is see much disdain, anger, and defensiveness in your words

You question my character and salvation then have the unmitigated gall to accuse me?!?!?   rofl

Preterism is nonsense.  "Soon" to God could be tomorrow, a thousand years, or even a million years. To base the word "soon" on human time-tables is foolish indeed…
 
The Lord is returning soon. We need to lift up our heads and look for his glorious appearing---he has promised to return just as he left (see Acts 1).

I guess that's the problem.. "The Lord is returning soon", which you admit could very well mean (even) a million years from now. In human terms, sooner is usually used in contrast to later.

How are words supposed to convey a message to man when we have no way to measure how soon in human terms, as opposed to how far? (Unless by "soon" you mean "at any time" which could be today, but then again could be a thousand years from now.) Soon just seems like the wrong word if you're still waiting for something that was soon even to saints in the first century.
« Last Edit: Tue Feb 18, 2014 - 18:28:20 by raggthyme13 »

Offline johnm

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #33 on: Tue Feb 18, 2014 - 20:24:57 »
<<But I will come to you soon...1 Corinthians 4:19 (NASB)
Make every effort to come to me soon...2 Timothy 4:9 (NASB)
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. Romans 16:20 (NASB)

When Paul wrote the words "soon", cited above, is there any reason to believe he meant them to mean 2,000 years?>>

1 Corinthians 4:19; Paul is talking about himself coming speedily.  “But I will come unto you speedily, if the Lord will; and I know I will know, not the word of those puffed up, but the power. 20. For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power”.

2 Timothy 4:9; Paul is asking Timothy to come to him shortly.

Romans 16:20; And the God of peace will bruise Satan under your feet shortly.
I am not sure what Paul is talking about but he wasn’t meaning 2000 years. I imagine Paul is talking about overcoming the problems he refers to in verse 17.

Offline Stormcrow

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Re: How soon is "soon?"
« Reply #34 on: Tue Feb 18, 2014 - 21:18:20 »
Quote
"Soon" to God could be tomorrow, a thousand years, or even a million years. To base the word "soon" on human time-tables is foolish indeed…
Quote
How are words supposed to convey a message to man when we have no way to measure how soon in human terms, as opposed to how far?

Exactly.  The problem is that a God who cannot communicate to His beloved creation in terms it can understand is, at best, not the God of Christianity.  At worst, this "God" would be a liar, knowingly misleading those who laid down their lives for the hope of Christ's coming that He knew wouldn't happen for them!

You'll also notice how the some on this thread disparage preterism, as though preterism is the issue, when the issue is the promises Christ made both to His disciples and enemies.  If "soon" can mean a million years, then the promises in the Bible are worthless.

What's at stake here is the veracity of Christ and the faithfulness of God to keep His word.  If futurism is true, Christ lied and God failed.   ::frown::