Author Topic: How was Daniel 9:27a fulfilled? Show historical data please.  (Read 406 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Talking Donkey N22

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 73
  • Manna: 0
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
How was Daniel 9:27a fulfilled? Show historical data please.
« on: Fri Jun 02, 2017 - 20:58:03 »
From a Preterist point of view, how was this fulfilled already?

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, ...

Thanks!

TD

Offline raggthyme13

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 692
  • Manna: 10
    • View Profile
Re: How was Daniel 9:27a fulfilled? Show historical data please.
« Reply #1 on: Fri Jul 07, 2017 - 02:44:28 »
This might help understand the preterist view on it… http://www.rightlydividingtheword.com/articles/70th_week_of_daniel.htm

Offline whitestone

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 99
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: How was Daniel 9:27a fulfilled? Show historical data please.
« Reply #2 on: Sat Jan 13, 2018 - 11:26:16 »
From a Preterist point of view, how was this fulfilled already?

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, ...

Thanks!

TD

I'm not sure what Preterism teaches, but here's how I understand Daniel 9:27 prophecy of the Covenant/ (aka "New Testament), being fulfilled;

Isa_42:6, Isa_53:11, Isa_55:3; Jer_31:31-34, Jer_32:40-42; Eze_16:60-63; Mat_26:28; Rom_5:15, Rom_5:19, Rom_15:8-9; Gal_3:13-17; Heb_6:13-18, Heb_8:8-13; Heb_9:15-20, Heb_9:28, Mat_27:51, Heb_10:4-22

Offline grandcentralstation

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 17
  • Manna: 0
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How was Daniel 9:27a fulfilled? Show historical data please.
« Reply #3 on: Sun Jul 08, 2018 - 08:54:34 »
From a Preterist point of view, how was this fulfilled already?

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, ...

Thanks!

TD

Talking Donkey, this is a very good question. I'm a partial preterist and have contemplated this section of Daniel of the 70 weeks many times. Some preterists believe this was Titus in his destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. I do believe Titus is shown in the second part of verse 26 "The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.  It says the end will come "like a flood", talking about the Roman invasion and total destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70AD. This covenant being confirmed is a little confusing because if you read Hebrews it explains that with Christs sacrifice the old covenant temple system is no longer needed. So I lean towards the point of view that Christ is the one who ultimately caused the desolation of the temple in 70AD.

As far as the timing of the 490 years it does become very confusing. I discovered a Jewish web site that explained why there is such a problem with calculating the 490 years. This particular group of Jews believe there is a 166 year discrepancy between the secular dating and when the second temple was actually built. They don't believe there should be any detachment of the last week of Daniel and that the 490 years falls right on 70AD. That may explain why the Zealots were so determined to fight against the Romans because they believed the time was approaching that their "messiah" would come on the scene and supernaturally defeat the Romans.

Offline lea

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
  • Manna: 5
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How was Daniel 9:27a fulfilled? Show historical data please.
« Reply #4 on: Sun Jul 08, 2018 - 11:24:54 »
Dan.9,
26
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall [j]be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
27
Then he shall confirm a [k]covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the [l]desolate.”

Messiah was to be cut off afterthe 69 weeks. After only means after, not at exactly that time, it says after (basically not before, but sometime after.)

Then we can conclude that God measured true worshipers in the temple, and they lived 1,260 days before Titus invaded the temple and put Caesar's bust on the "wing" of the temple. Then he destroyed the temple.

Rev11- 11 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. [a]And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How was Daniel 9:27a fulfilled? Show historical data please.
« Reply #4 on: Sun Jul 08, 2018 - 11:24:54 »



Offline grandcentralstation

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 17
  • Manna: 0
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How was Daniel 9:27a fulfilled? Show historical data please.
« Reply #5 on: Sun Jul 08, 2018 - 14:14:48 »
Dan.9,
26
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall [j]be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
27
Then he shall confirm a [k]covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the [l]desolate.”

Messiah was to be cut off afterthe 69 weeks. After only means after, not at exactly that time, it says after (basically not before, but sometime after.)

Then we can conclude that God measured true worshipers in the temple, and they lived 1,260 days before Titus invaded the temple and put Caesar's bust on the "wing" of the temple. Then he destroyed the temple.

Rev11- 11 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. [a]And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

Lea, yes I pretty much agree with you on this. The orthodox Jews I mentioned believe like us (preterists) that it was Titus who was the one who destroyed the temple & sanctuary in 70AD but they don't connect Jesus into all of this like we do. It definitely isn't referring to a future 3rd temple as the dispensationalists believe.

Offline 3 Resurrections

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 395
  • Manna: 7
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How was Daniel 9:27a fulfilled? Show historical data please.
« Reply #6 on: Tue Jul 10, 2018 - 00:26:52 »
lea and grandcentralstation  -  I come into this discussion from the direction of the “no gap” viewpoint - that the 70 weeks of years is a continuous, complete block of 490 years ending in AD 37, which was 3 1/2  years after Christ’s death and resurrection in AD 33.  That last “week” of 7 years (AD 30-37) involved Christ’s personal, miraculous ministry to His own people for the first 3 1/2 years, with another 3 1/2 years following His ascension; the time when the believers of the early church concentrated their evangelism to their fellow Jews (Acts11:19).  This is why Christ plainly said He was sent only to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel” while He was on earth (Matt. 15:24 and 10:5-6). 

God gave His Old Covenant people one last, full “week” of being confirmed in the New Covenant before the emphasis of evangelism exploded into the Gentile world through Paul’s and others ministries.  Christ is clearly called “the messenger of the covenant” in Malachi 3:1.  He is “Messiah the Prince” of Dan. 9:25 that was manifested at the start of His public ministry in AD 30, when He announced in Mark 1:14-15 that “the time (season) is FULFILLED, and the kingdom of God is at hand (or present).  Repent ye and believe the gospel.” 

This “fulfilled” season was the end of the 69th week in AD 30.  This AD 30 year was also when John was cast into prison, according to Mark 1:14.  John was well aware of this transition from the 69th week to the start of the 70th, when he admitted that “ He must increase, but I must decrease” in John 3:30. 

We can pinpoint this date of AD 30 at the beginning of Jesus’s public ministry by comparing historical records to a statement made by the Jews in John 2:14-22.  On that occasion, Jesus drove out the money-changers of the temple at that first Passover, just after His public ministry had begun.  The Jews who challenged Him then said, “Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?”

Herod began to construct his fabulous temple in 17 BC.  This means the first Passover of Christ’s ministry fell in AD 30 - that beginning year of the 70th week.  In the middle of that 70th week, the formerly-required Old Covenant sacrifice and oblation of the temple were caused to cease in God’s eyes.  This happened when Christ became the high priest of the New Covenant at His ascension during Passover week in AD 33, thus changing both the high priesthood and the law (Heb. 7:12). 

Three and a half years later in AD 37, Paul traveled to Jerusalem and received his vision in the temple.  God told him to “ Depart, for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.”  (Acts 22:17-21 comes Gal. 1:18), which ended the last 70th week of evangelism that was concentrated on “confirming the covenant with many” of Daniel’s people. 

As for the 70-weeks prophecy, there has been much ink lavished on trying to prove the dates from start to finish for this.  On my part, I follow the chronology laid out long ago by Ussher in his “ Annals of the World”.  I’ve touched a bit on this before at this link: http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/correct-decree-457bc-or-444bc/ at comment #20.  Also at this link: http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/483-years/

The following list provides the dates Ussher gave for the complete, intact, 70-weeks period of prophecy, and does NOT include the final destruction of the city and the temple in AD 70, because it was only the PROPHECY about those events that was “SEALED UP” within the 70-weeks prophecy.  The actual fulfillment of these wartime events were later UNSEALED in the AD 70 era, as pictured by the 7 seals being opened in Rev. 6-8. 

454 BC  -  The 4th decree found in Nehemiah 2:1 was given by Artaxerxes I in his 20th regnal year, which included building the “street” and the “wall” around Jerusalem.  The mention of archaeological proof for this date can be found in Ussher’s “Annals” in notes for the year 474 BC (1177) and the year 473 BC (1184).

AD 30  -  The beginning of Jesus’ miraculous, public ministry, starting with the wedding at Cana, caused His disciples to believe on Him (John 2:11).  This was the year He started “confirming the covenant with many” of the “lost sheep of the house of Israel”.  (AD 27 was His baptism, with a 3-year period before His public ministry of miracles began.  The devil left Him “for a season” during this time.)

AD 33  -  The “midst of the week” of Daniel 9:27 had the Messiah “ cut off out of the land of the living” (Dan. 9:26 cp Isaiah 53:8).  His ultimate sacrifice of Himself caused the temple sacrifice and oblation to cease in God’s eyes, once Christ brought in “everlasting righteousness”.  (Paul was converted after Stephen’s stoning in AD 33, and spent 3 years training in Arabia.)

AD 37  -  Paul traveled to Jerusalem finally, and received his vision in the temple (Acts 22:17-21).  God commissioned Paul to leave Jerusalem immediately, and to concentrate his evangelism to the Gentiles.  This ended the 70th week that was devoted to “confirming the covenant” with many of Daniel’s people.  It also ended the 1260 days of Rev. 12:6 & 14, when “the woman” (the early church in Jerusalem) was persecuted after Stephen’s martyrdom, and fled into the wilderness away from Jerusalem for that “time, and times, and half a time until AD 37 (Acts 8:1).

So there you have it: no gaps whatever for this 70-weeks prophecy of Daniel’s.

Offline lea

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
  • Manna: 5
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: How was Daniel 9:27a fulfilled? Show historical data please.
« Reply #7 on: Tue Jul 10, 2018 - 19:18:29 »
3 R's,
Some Preterists think there is a gap and some, like yourself, figure there isn't.

I agree with both and I think the "gap" is symbolic, rather then the literal 490 years.

The time, times, and half time keeps showing up in Scripture just before the "Holy city" is destroyed and the Resurrection of the dead takes place.

Here is an interpretation of Daniel 9 with a gap. Read it when you have time.
God Bless!

http://apostolicpreterist.com/Daniel_9_24_breakdown.html

 

     
anything