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Offline robycop3

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preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« on: Fri May 24, 2019 - 01:53:24 »
  Preterists CANNOT get by the FACT that the prophesied eschatological events have NOT yet occurred. it's obvious Jesus hasn't yet returned in the manner He Himself said He will, proving full preterism wrong; partial preterism is proven wrong by Matt. 24:29-30. If the great trib has already occurred, then Jesus is long-overdue according to those verses.

  Prets try to escape their dilemma by trying to reduce "inconvenient" Scriptures to figurative/symbolic status.

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preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« on: Fri May 24, 2019 - 01:53:24 »

Offline robycop3

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #1 on: Sat Jul 13, 2019 - 10:17:12 »
  I am still patiently waiting for any pret to prove me wrong by pointing out, in a legitimate history book or article, when the prophesied eschatological events occurred. The SILENCE is deafening !

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #2 on: Sat Jul 13, 2019 - 22:45:42 »
Hi robycop3,

There’s not a single scripture that I would regard as being “inconvenient”.  It is one harmonious whole from start to finish.  With only 36 posts to date, you can’t possibly have been “patiently waiting” for very long to get any response from preterists.  Nor could you have read very far in the contents of this forum, because there have been many who have already addressed this challenge that others besides you have raised, asking for proofs of eschatological events having occurred already. 

Pick one event at a time, and I might be able to give you a link to a post here at GC where either I or someone else has already written on the subject from a Preterist viewpoint.   For myself, I have to write slowly, because I have to text everything I write on my cell phone, and I am having a very busy summer doing a home renovation project with a lot of sweat equity thrown in.  If the “silence is deafening” for you, it’s not because there are no answers from scripture; many times it’s because people have an overloaded schedule.

I have also written quite a bit on other websites over the past 6 years or so regarding Preterist themes, and if necessary could send you a pertinent link to a particular subject in a PM, if you wish. 

One thing I am absolutely sure of is that “the scriptures cannot be broken”.  They WILL reconcile with each other, and those who are humbly seeking the truth are promised that they will find it, praise God.

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jul 15, 2019 - 01:48:48 »
  VERY EASY to point out a prophesied event that hasn't yet occurred - THE RETURN OF JESUS!
  And "inconvenient" Scriptures to prets are those that prove preterism false because the events thry prophesy haven't yet occurred. Thus, prets try to reduce them to "figurative/symbolic" status.
  And while I heven't been HERE long, I've been on other sites ever since the internet began, & I have yet to see any pret **PROVE** one prophesied eschatological event has already occurred.

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jul 15, 2019 - 11:10:46 »
Just which “return of Jesus” are you referring to?  The one in AD 70, or the one still to come in our future?  Of course, you and I are still awaiting the redemption of our physical bodies in a final resurrection.  But there have already been two former resurrection events: #1, the one called the “First Resurrection” which included “Christ the First-fruits” along with the comparatively small “remnant of the dead”; the 144,000 First-fruits, who were the Matt. 27:52-53 saints raised along with Him, and #2, the resurrection of the just and the unjust that Paul told both Timothy and Governor Felix was ABOUT TO BE taking place for them.

II Timothy 4:1 - “Earnestly testify therefore I before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, WHO IS ABOUT TO JUDGE LIVING AND DEAD according to his appearing and his kingdom.”

Acts 24:15 & 25 - “...a hope having in God which also they themselves receive, that A RESURRECTION IS ABOUT TO BE OF THE DEAD, both of just and of unjust.”   “And as reasoned he concerning righteousness and self-control AND THE JUDGMENT ABOUT TO BE, afraid becoming, Felix answered, For the present go, and an opportunity having found I will call for thee.”

The trouble is that no matter what proof from scripture is presented of a past fulfillment of Christ’s promises, since you don’t like the conclusion, you simply disregard it.  Relax - contrary to both full and partial preterism, you don’t have to forfeit your future expectations of a physically-resurrected glorified body to believe in the previous physical resurrections of the past.  What Christ already did twice in the past, He will do yet once more for us in the future.  The scriptural pattern is to have 3 resurrections of the dead timed to match the 3 required harvest feast celebrations of Passover, Pentecost, and the Feast of Tabernacles, to occur at that very same time of the year for each one.

All the WRITTEN prophecies have already been fulfilled, but we are presently living out the UNWRITTEN prophecies that John sealed up and was not allowed to reveal to the believers in Rev. 10:4. 

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jul 15, 2019 - 11:10:46 »



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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #5 on: Mon Jul 15, 2019 - 11:18:07 »
  No, Jesus did NOT return in 70 AD. I don't know who invented that whopper, but it's parently-false. And ALL the eschatological events are yet to come. As I said, I'm waiting for someone to show us from a legitimate work of history when/where any of those events have already happened.
  And I have Encyclopaedia Britannica, Collier's Encyclopedia, & World Book in front of me, & not one of them says any of those events has already occurred.

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #6 on: Wed Jul 17, 2019 - 12:15:39 »
Hi robycop3,

If you can’t bring yourself to believe the recorded verses above that The Apostle Paul gave to Timothy and Governor Felix about HOW SOON God’s appearing and the resurrection was going to be in that generation, why would you believe any physical evidence I could provide for you from after the AD 70 rapture and resurrection took place?  You are predisposed not to believe scripture testimony BEFORE these things happened, so why should God entrust you with evidence AFTER He accomplished His promises?  (And you are presuming that such evidence does not exist because you personally are not in possession of such evidence - yet.)

I start from the scripture predictions to begin with, (especially the sense of imminent, near fulfillment that ALL the NT books have) and there are historical records that prove that the written eschatological promises were indeed fulfilled in that first century.  If those three sources you mentioned are the sole extent of your research, you need to dig a bit deeper than that.

The “Doubting Thomas” syndrome is still alive and well in this age...

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #7 on: Wed Jul 17, 2019 - 12:51:11 »
Robycop3,

How do you explain Revelation 11:14: The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon. (NIV)?

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #8 on: Thu Jul 18, 2019 - 10:07:22 »
    Remember, John was writing what he was seeing/hearing in a VISION, not real-time. Beginning in Rev. 6, the great trib's events are described. The plagues become progressively worse thru the seals, trumpets, and vials. After the 4th trump, the angel cried "Woe !" 3 times. The 5th trump, the plague of "locusts, was the first woe. It runs thru the trumps, then, the vision "takes a break" from the trib, then, picks up with the vial (or bowl, depending on your Bible version) judgments, followed by Jesus' return in Rev. 19.

  When all these judgments begin, they'll come rapidly, one almost immediately after the other.  Hope that answers your question.

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #9 on: Thu Jul 18, 2019 - 10:12:37 »
Hi robycop3,

If you can’t bring yourself to believe the recorded verses above that The Apostle Paul gave to Timothy and Governor Felix about HOW SOON God’s appearing and the resurrection was going to be in that generation, why would you believe any physical evidence I could provide for you from after the AD 70 rapture and resurrection took place?  You are predisposed not to believe scripture testimony BEFORE these things happened, so why should God entrust you with evidence AFTER He accomplished His promises?  (And you are presuming that such evidence does not exist because you personally are not in possession of such evidence - yet.)

I start from the scripture predictions to begin with, (especially the sense of imminent, near fulfillment that ALL the NT books have) and there are historical records that prove that the written eschatological promises were indeed fulfilled in that first century.  If those three sources you mentioned are the sole extent of your research, you need to dig a bit deeper than that.

The “Doubting Thomas” syndrome is still alive and well in this age...

  I believe Scripture and actual history, shaped by Scripture, not your wild tales & guesswork. Had Jesus already returned, He woulda reigned for 1K years, here on earth, from Jerusalem, while Satan was banished. Then, the new heaven & earth would be here, with no more sea, the "New Jerusalem" present, etc. etc. THAT'S WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS ! !  So, I don't believe a word you (or anyone else says) in favor of preterism. Reality proves it false.

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #10 on: Mon Dec 16, 2019 - 06:38:01 »
Hi robycop3,

There’s not a single scripture that I would regard as being “inconvenient”.  It is one harmonious whole from start to finish.  With only 36 posts to date, you can’t possibly have been “patiently waiting” for very long to get any response from preterists.  Nor could you have read very far in the contents of this forum, because there have been many who have already addressed this challenge that others besides you have raised, asking for proofs of eschatological events having occurred already. 

Pick one event at a time, and I might be able to give you a link to a post here at GC where either I or someone else has already written on the subject from a Preterist viewpoint.   For myself, I have to write slowly, because I have to text everything I write on my cell phone, and I am having a very busy summer doing a home renovation project with a lot of sweat equity thrown in.  If the “silence is deafening” for you, it’s not because there are no answers from scripture; many times it’s because people have an overloaded schedule.

I have also written quite a bit on other websites over the past 6 years or so regarding Preterist themes, and if necessary could send you a pertinent link to a particular subject in a PM, if you wish. 

One thing I am absolutely sure of is that “the scriptures cannot be broken”.  They WILL reconcile with each other, and those who are humbly seeking the truth are promised that they will find it, praise God.

  One event? OK, the mark of the beast.

  And, BTW, I've read most of the pret jive written by Preston & others. It's all phony as a Ford Corvette. The prophesied events simply haven't happened yet, simple as THAT !

  Let me refer to what I mentioned in post #9.
« Last Edit: Mon Dec 16, 2019 - 06:44:47 by robycop3 »

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #11 on: Mon Dec 16, 2019 - 06:40:04 »
Robycop3,

How do you explain Revelation 11:14: The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon. (NIV)?

  EASY!

  It had passed in the VISION, not in REALITY.

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #12 on: Mon Dec 16, 2019 - 08:25:43 »
Hi robycop3,

The mark of the Beast?  That’s an easy one, and I don’t even remember what Don Preston said on the matter.  He and I part company anyway when he refuses to accept the physical resurrection of the bodies of the saints, so I don’t march in lockstep with him and other Full Preterists, if that’s what you think.

I have written extensively on this forum on what the mark of the Roman Sea Beast imposed by the Judean Land Beast once WAS, back in the first century and slightly before then (19 BC).    This interpretation satisfies all of scripture’s detailed description below of what having the mark once entailed.  I already addressed this point at great length about the mark of the Beast with you in a comment at the following link, which tedious length is probably why you might not have taken time to read it.

http://www.gracecenteted.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/what-the-mark-of-the-beast-is-and-the-meaning-of-666/

#1) No buying or selling without it
#2) Given in the right hand or the forehead
#3) This mark of the Sea Beast’s name was received by every sort of person, rich and poor, small and great, free or bond.
#4) Punishment by death if it was not received
#5) It involved homage given to the Sea Beast in some way.
#6) It was the LAND BEAST that imposed this mark, on behalf of the Sea Beast - NOT the Sea Beast demanding its own homage by this means.


The Tyrian shekel and half-shekel coins called the “drachma” or the “didrachma” were required currency by the high priests of Israel ever since 19 BC when they started having these coins minted in Jerusalem instead of at the mint in the city of Tyre.  These were the only coins accepted at the temple for any purchase or sale of sacrificial items, and for the yearly Temple Tax given by every male over the age of manhood. 

The moneychangers that Christ excoriated in the temple for making it a “den of thieves” did a brisk, profitable business for the high priests by exacting a separate fee with each exchange of foreign currency for the Tyrian shekel coins with their forbidden pagan images and profane inscriptions.  God had strictly forbidden such images of pagan idols for Israel back in Deuteronomy 7:25-26 as an abomination, but the high priests had ignored this.

Women also received these same drachma coins with the forbidden images and inscriptions in their foreheads by fastening a token number of 10 drachma coins in their headdress, denoting their married status.  Remember the parable of the woman’s lost drachma coin...

Next?  Give me one more Revelation prophecy, and I’ve probably already given scriptural and/or historical evidence about its past fulfillment on this forum before now.

I can understand that you may feel compelled to battle what you consider to be the deception of Preterism (and there ARE some kinks in some of the various Preterist camps that need revision), but I credit your style of presentation as having a great deal of zeal, but not according to knowledge, as the apostle Paul once described the over-zealous Christ-rejecting Jews of Romans 10:2.

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #13 on: Tue Dec 17, 2019 - 10:34:19 »
Hi robycop3,

The mark of the Beast?  That’s an easy one, and I don’t even remember what Don Preston said on the matter.  He and I part company anyway when he refuses to accept the physical resurrection of the bodies of the saints, so I don’t march in lockstep with him and other Full Preterists, if that’s what you think.

I have written extensively on this forum on what the mark of the Roman Sea Beast imposed by the Judean Land Beast once WAS, back in the first century and slightly before then (19 BC).    This interpretation satisfies all of scripture’s detailed description below of what having the mark once entailed.  I already addressed this point at great length about the mark of the Beast with you in a comment at the following link, which tedious length is probably why you might not have taken time to read it.

http://www.gracecenteted.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/what-the-mark-of-the-beast-is-and-the-meaning-of-666/

#1) No buying or selling without it
#2) Given in the right hand or the forehead
#3) This mark of the Sea Beast’s name was received by every sort of person, rich and poor, small and great, free or bond.
#4) Punishment by death if it was not received
#5) It involved homage given to the Sea Beast in some way.
#6) It was the LAND BEAST that imposed this mark, on behalf of the Sea Beast - NOT the Sea Beast demanding its own homage by this means.


The Tyrian shekel and half-shekel coins called the “drachma” or the “didrachma” were required currency by the high priests of Israel ever since 19 BC when they started having these coins minted in Jerusalem instead of at the mint in the city of Tyre.  These were the only coins accepted at the temple for any purchase or sale of sacrificial items, and for the yearly Temple Tax given by every male over the age of manhood. 

The moneychangers that Christ excoriated in the temple for making it a “den of thieves” did a brisk, profitable business for the high priests by exacting a separate fee with each exchange of foreign currency for the Tyrian shekel coins with their forbidden pagan images and profane inscriptions.  God had strictly forbidden such images of pagan idols for Israel back in Deuteronomy 7:25-26 as an abomination, but the high priests had ignored this.

Women also received these same drachma coins with the forbidden images and inscriptions in their foreheads by fastening a token number of 10 drachma coins in their headdress, denoting their married status.  Remember the parable of the woman’s lost drachma coin...

Next?  Give me one more Revelation prophecy, and I’ve probably already given scriptural and/or historical evidence about its past fulfillment on this forum before now.

I can understand that you may feel compelled to battle what you consider to be the deception of Preterism (and there ARE some kinks in some of the various Preterist camps that need revision), but I credit your style of presentation as having a great deal of zeal, but not according to knowledge, as the apostle Paul once described the over-zealous Christ-rejecting Jews of Romans 10:2.


  Nice try, Sir, but here are some FACTS that you may check behind me for veracity. remember the widow in Mark 12? She dropped 2 LEPTONS, which equalled a QUADRANS into the offering box. (Mites & farthings are BRITISH equivalents.) Those were ROMAN coins.

  And Jewish silver SHEKELS were found in the remains of Old Jerusalem, destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD.(Evidently, the looting Romans missed them !) The writing on them was Greek, the most-commonly-used language by those Jews, & the shekels' obverse reads "Shekel of Israel, Year 3" & the reverse reads "Jerusalem the Holy". They'd been minted 66-70 AD. (It's not known what "Year 3" stood for, as the Jewish calendar was in its 3600-3700th year by then.Year of the siege, perhaps?) 

  Also, the customary temple offering was a half-shekel, but 2 Greek drachmae were acceptable as equivalent. it's pretty clear from history that the 1st century Jews used a variety of money-Jewish, greek, & Roman. Remember, Jesus paid His tax with a coin with CAESAR'S likeness on it, so it was obviously ROMAN, not a drachma!

  No, the mark of the beast will be some sorta implanted microchip. The tech for it exists now, but the chips right now can't hold all of a person's personal info & financial records. But it's on the way, along with the "beast" who will issue and compel it !

   Sorry, but once again, Scripture & history prove a pret supposition wrong.  Care to try again on the mark of the beast ?

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #14 on: Tue Dec 17, 2019 - 11:51:53 »
Sorry, robycop3, but your FACTS only serve to PROVE my point about the mark of the Beast being that required Tyrian shekel for any sale or purchase in the Temple.  Whether the donation of the widow’s quadrans, or the required drachma / shekel coin used for the Jewish Temple Tax or used in a married woman’s headdress, or a denarius coin for the Roman tribute tax with Caesar’s image on it - all of these had pagan images forbidden by the Torah.  Neither images of foreign gods (like the demi-god Hercules on the quadrans and the Tyrian shekel coins) or any human likeness was supposed to be used on their coinage.  But, for the sake of the massive temple profits by the exchange of various currency circulating in those days for the Tyrian shekel, the high priests overlooked the Deuteronomy prohibition against these pagan images of the gods or the emperors on the coinage. 

That’s why one of the first things the Zealots did when they began the rebellion in AD 66 was to start minting their own coinage without those pagan images, as you mentioned above.  It was a nominal attempt at righteousness, in service to a defunct temple system that God intended to burn up completely by the end of AD 70 anyway.  So they might as well have saved themselves the trouble, since the Temple was going to be torn down to the last stone before the end of AD 70.

And you are still ignoring the “AT HAND” fulfillment of the mark of the Beast, according to God’s definition in Ezekiel 12:21-28, which meant a fulfillment in John’s days - not ours.

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #15 on: Tue Dec 17, 2019 - 16:39:21 »
Sorry, robycop3, but your FACTS only serve to PROVE my point about the mark of the Beast being that required Tyrian shekel for any sale or purchase in the Temple.  Whether the donation of the widow’s quadrans, or the required drachma / shekel coin used for the Jewish Temple Tax or used in a married woman’s headdress, or a denarius coin for the Roman tribute tax with Caesar’s image on it - all of these had pagan images forbidden by the Torah.  Neither images of foreign gods (like the demi-god Hercules on the quadrans and the Tyrian shekel coins) or any human likeness was supposed to be used on their coinage.  But, for the sake of the massive temple profits by the exchange of various currency circulating in those days for the Tyrian shekel, the high priests overlooked the Deuteronomy prohibition against these pagan images of the gods or the emperors on the coinage.

  My, MY, you're resisting the truth so hard !

  Those Jews didn't mint those drachmas. They minted their own shekels, in use at that time. The Greex or Macedonians, & maybe some Romans minted the drachmas.

  And, at any rate, those Jews didn't WORSHIP the images on those coins ! And if those coins were evil, so is the whole world today, as virtually all money, coins or paper, has someone's likeness on it. That means, if you recognize our coins as legal tender, if you have any change in your pockets, or even in your home, you're as guilty as you say those Jews were !

Quote
That’s why one of the first things the Zealots did when they began the rebellion in AD 66 was to start minting their own coinage without those pagan images, as you mentioned above.  It was a nominal attempt at righteousness, in service to a defunct temple system that God intended to burn up completely by the end of AD 70 anyway.  So they might as well have saved themselves the trouble, since the Temple was going to be torn down to the last stone before the end of AD 70.

   Actually, they minted those coins to show their independence from Rome. Please examine Jewish histiory to see that fact for yourself !

Quote
And you are still ignoring the “AT HAND” fulfillment of the mark of the Beast, according to God’s definition in Ezekiel 12:21-28, which meant a fulfillment in John’s days - not ours.

  I'm not ignoring anything except the assertion those prophesied events have already occurred. They HAVEN'T ! That's why I keep asking you to check it out yourself ! Again, when did all life in the seas die? When was all green grass burned up? When, since the plagues of Egypt, did all fresh water turn to blood ?

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #16 on: Tue Dec 17, 2019 - 18:33:00 »
Hey robycop3,

You aren’t understanding why this particular Tyrian shekel coin was so abominable to God.   There was one main reason: the image of the demi-god Hercules on the face of it was a total affront to God because it represented a half-human half-god entity.  Just like the hybrid angel-human creatures that we find in Genesis 6 when the sons of God angelic beings married the daughters of men and begot children of them.  God had to wipe out all of humanity with the flood because all flesh had corrupted it’s way on earth with this hybrid type of human-angel mix.  Noah was one family that had not succumbed to this practice, and received favor from the Lord for himself and his family by his preservation in the ark.

The same issue cropped up later in the land of Canaan, which is why God demanded that the Israelite tribes coming out of Egypt into the land of Canaan were to slay a number of those nations without sparing anything that breathed. 

God took this issue extremely seriously of the sons-of-god marriages to human women.  These different types of flesh creatures that He had created - both terrestrial and celestial - were to stay in their own sphere of habitation. 

To have the Jews replicate this type of image of a hybrid human-god mix on the Tyrian shekel coins they produced in Jerusalem - well, you couldn’t think of a more provoking, abominable thing to do against your Creator.   After all, the entire world of men except Noah’s family had died in the flood to get rid of such a problem, which this coin was perversely giving HONOR to by its image of the demi-god Hercules.

It was the JEWISH LEADERS who voluntarily went to the Romans after 19 BC to get permission to mint their own coins for Temple use.  This was an unheard-of privilege for a nation subjugated to Rome to mint their own currency, because it was the sign of an independent, sovereign nation operating.  The only way they got permission to do this was if they agreed to continue putting the SAME PAGAN IMAGES of the old Tyrian shekels on the new coins produced in Jerusalem.  Plus, along with the inscription “Tyre the Holy”,  they had to have the “KP” initials on the back of them, certifying that the Jews were making these with Rome’s sanction and authority.  Queen Jezebel’s home city of Tyre being given the profane title of “holy” was another affront to God, whose prophets Queen Jezebel had tried to wipe out.

This was a VOLUNTARY CHOICE by the high priesthood to mint these abominable coins in Jerusalem that forced their own people to end up using these in their Temple transactions. 

Every time an Israelite man paid his yearly Temple Tax, he was reminded that his nation’s high priesthood was forcing him to use a coin with an abominable image on it that Rome had demanded to be stamped on it.

This was enforced homage.  The “Land Beast” was forcing their own people to cooperate with them in giving honor to the idols of their Roman overlords - the “Sea Beast” - instead of obeying the command God had given them long ago in Deuteronomy against using those pagan images.

So OF COURSE the Zealots wanted to declare independence from the overbearing governance of Rome by minting their own coinage in AD 66. That’s a no-brainer.

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #17 on: Wed Dec 18, 2019 - 07:33:37 »
Hey robycop3,

You aren’t understanding why this particular Tyrian shekel coin was so abominable to God.   There was one main reason: the image of the demi-god Hercules on the face of it was a total affront to God because it represented a half-human half-god entity.  Just like the hybrid angel-human creatures that we find in Genesis 6 when the sons of God angelic beings married the daughters of men and begot children of them.  God had to wipe out all of humanity with the flood because all flesh had corrupted it’s way on earth with this hybrid type of human-angel mix.  Noah was one family that had not succumbed to this practice, and received favor from the Lord for himself and his family by his preservation in the ark.

The same issue cropped up later in the land of Canaan, which is why God demanded that the Israelite tribes coming out of Egypt into the land of Canaan were to slay a number of those nations without sparing anything that breathed. 

God took this issue extremely seriously of the sons-of-god marriages to human women.  These different types of flesh creatures that He had created - both terrestrial and celestial - were to stay in their own sphere of habitation. 

To have the Jews replicate this type of image of a hybrid human-god mix on the Tyrian shekel coins they produced in Jerusalem - well, you couldn’t think of a more provoking, abominable thing to do against your Creator.   After all, the entire world of men except Noah’s family had died in the flood to get rid of such a problem, which this coin was perversely giving HONOR to by its image of the demi-god Hercules.

It was the JEWISH LEADERS who voluntarily went to the Romans after 19 BC to get permission to mint their own coins for Temple use.  This was an unheard-of privilege for a nation subjugated to Rome to mint their own currency, because it was the sign of an independent, sovereign nation operating.  The only way they got permission to do this was if they agreed to continue putting the SAME PAGAN IMAGES of the old Tyrian shekels on the new coins produced in Jerusalem.  Plus, along with the inscription “Tyre the Holy”,  they had to have the “KP” initials on the back of them, certifying that the Jews were making these with Rome’s sanction and authority.  Queen Jezebel’s home city of Tyre being given the profane title of “holy” was another affront to God, whose prophets Queen Jezebel had tried to wipe out.

This was a VOLUNTARY CHOICE by the high priesthood to mint these abominable coins in Jerusalem that forced their own people to end up using these in their Temple transactions. 

Every time an Israelite man paid his yearly Temple Tax, he was reminded that his nation’s high priesthood was forcing him to use a coin with an abominable image on it that Rome had demanded to be stamped on it.

This was enforced homage.  The “Land Beast” was forcing their own people to cooperate with them in giving honor to the idols of their Roman overlords - the “Sea Beast” - instead of obeying the command God had given them long ago in Deuteronomy against using those pagan images.

So OF COURSE the Zealots wanted to declare independence from the overbearing governance of Rome by minting their own coinage in AD 66. That’s a no-brainer.

  Sir, do you have any coins in your pocket or home that have a likeness of "Lady Liberty" on them, obverse or reverse? How about dollar bills with a pyramid & Rosicrucian eye on the reverse ? If so, you're as guilty as the old Israelis & pagans.

  Did JESUS condemn the coin with Caesar's likeness on it? How about the coin found in the fish's mouth with which He paid His capitation tax?

  You're gonna hafta come up with a better excuse to say the mark of the beast has already come !

  ACTUALLY, the true marka the beast will be some sorta implanted microchip. The tech exists right now. God knew that, of course, but John & his readers didn't, so God just called it a "mark".

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #18 on: Wed Dec 18, 2019 - 10:32:10 »
Hey robycop3, question for you.

Are you guilty of supporting abortion because your tax dollars support government entities that support it?  No, of course not.  God looks on the heart.  We are “IN the world, but not OF it.”  It’s the same as the NT meat-offered-to-idols issue that Paul taught his readers how to deal with.

Same with Christ handing over the Tyrian shekel coin out of the fish’s mouth.  He was not guilty of offering His heart’s allegiance to the Sea Beast in the process.  Neither was He guilty of giving His homage to Caesar (the current power of that Sea Beast) simply because He returned Caesar’s own coinage back to him for the tribute tax.   One could arguably say that the FISH ultimately paid the Temple Tax instead of Peter...

As for any current coinage having images or profane symbols being something that corrupts us - Naaah, to quote Paul on this question, “...we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one...”   This tells us that ultimately, it is the HEART attitude towards these things that corrupts.  It’s the “LOVE of money” that is the root of all evil. 

Same thing with those using the Tyrian coins back in Herod’s day.  The danger in those Tyrian shekel coins being required was that those in Israel would start thinking that their nation’s well-being was dependent on Rome’s good graces and favor - not faithful dependence on the Lord their God.  The corrupt high priesthood had completely bought into the deception that if they placated Rome, that they could continue to financially prosper.  Their heart was totally in the wrong place with regard to the true kingdom of God.  Their love was not for the GOD of the Temple, but for the lucrative PROFITS that they could extract from the people by its continued operation.

The problem with your “microchip” being the mark of the Beast is that the Sea Beast was identified as the one that was given Satan’s throne in the city of PERGAMOS in Rev. 13:2, the city where Satan dwelled, according to Rev. 2:13.  This city of Pergamos is not up for grabs by any entity or nation today.  That means the interpretation is limited to the past Roman Republic having been the one Rev. 13:2 was talking about, since it was given that throne of Satan in Pergamos by 133 BC in King Attalus III’s will.

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #19 on: Wed Dec 18, 2019 - 17:44:52 »
 My, MY !


Hey robycop3, question for you.

Are you guilty of supporting abortion because your tax dollars support government entities that support it?  No, of course not.  God looks on the heart.  We are “IN the world, but not OF it.”  It’s the same as the NT meat-offered-to-idols issue that Paul taught his readers how to deal with.

Same with Christ handing over the Tyrian shekel coin out of the fish’s mouth.  He was not guilty of offering His heart’s allegiance to the Sea Beast in the process.  Neither was He guilty of giving His homage to Caesar (the current power of that Sea Beast) simply because He returned Caesar’s own coinage back to him for the tribute tax.   One could arguably say that the FISH ultimately paid the Temple Tax instead of Peter...
  Well, it was ACTUALLY whoever lost the coin that the fish came up with. And we don't know WHAT kind of coin it was. It coulda been a shekel, or a Roman coin. Scripture doesn't specify. But the coin shown to Jesus by the Pharisees was definitely Roman, as it had Caesar's image on it.

Quote
As for any current coinage having images or profane symbols being something that corrupts us - Naaah, to quote Paul on this question, “...we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one...”   This tells us that ultimately, it is the HEART attitude towards these things that corrupts.  It’s the “LOVE of money” that is the root of all evil. 

Same thing with those using the Tyrian coins back in Herod’s day.  The danger in those Tyrian shekel coins being required was that those in Israel would start thinking that their nation’s well-being was dependent on Rome’s good graces and favor - not faithful dependence on the Lord their God.  The corrupt high priesthood had completely bought into the deception that if they placated Rome, that they could continue to financially prosper.  Their heart was totally in the wrong place with regard to the true kingdom of God.  Their love was not for the GOD of the Temple, but for the lucrative PROFITS that they could extract from the people by its continued operation.

  First, the KJV mistranslates 1 Tim. 6:10. It SHOULD read, "the love of silver (money) is A root of ALL SORTS of evil."  Then, whatever applies to our money of today applies to the ancient money as well. The ROMAN money had the current Caesar's likeness upon it; in those days it was Augustus.

Quote
The problem with your “microchip” being the mark of the Beast is that the Sea Beast was identified as the one that was given Satan’s throne in the city of PERGAMOS in Rev. 13:2, the city where Satan dwelled, according to Rev. 2:13.  This city of Pergamos is not up for grabs by any entity or nation today.  That means the interpretation is limited to the past Roman Republic having been the one Rev. 13:2 was talking about, since it was given that throne of Satan in Pergamos by 133 BC in King Attalus III’s will.

  What an imagination! Only a few prets have linked the sea beast with Pergamos. Remember, this beast is to commit the "abomination of desolation", & no ruler of Pergamos ever entered the temple. The AOD is still a future event that'll be committed by the "man of sin" in the temple the Jews will soon build in Jerusalem.

 You're still batting ZERO !

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #20 on: Sat Jan 04, 2020 - 13:12:43 »
Quote
robycop3 said:  The AOD is still a future event that'll be committed by the "man of sin" in the temple the Jews will soon build in Jerusalem.
Stop wishing the Jewish people today to endure disaster again ( and saying you won't.)

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #21 on: Sat Jan 04, 2020 - 14:35:16 »
Stop wishing the Jewish people today to endure disaster again ( and saying you won't.)

  The Jews WILL build a new temple in J & the antichrist will commit the AOD in it. The AOD didn't happen before Jesus' time or He wouldn'ta said to watch for it, & it didn't happen in the temple that was standing at that time. So, it'll happen in the new one.

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #22 on: Sat Jan 04, 2020 - 17:49:27 »
  The Jews WILL build a new temple in J & the antichrist will commit the AOD in it. The AOD didn't happen before Jesus' time or He wouldn'ta said to watch for it, & it didn't happen in the temple that was standing at that time. So, it'll happen in the new one.

Who did Jesus tell "to watch?"  Part of having a strong hermeneutic is to recognize "audience relevance."

Post when you establish that!

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #23 on: Sun Jan 05, 2020 - 07:29:56 »
Who did Jesus tell "to watch?"  Part of having a strong hermeneutic is to recognize "audience relevance."

Post when you establish that!

  For each of us, as it was for His audience, He is no further away than THE NEXT HEARTBEAT. And, at age 71, my last heartbeat is closer than many other peoples' are.  Thus, I'm careful to post only the TRUTH.

Offline lea

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #24 on: Sat Jan 11, 2020 - 14:58:30 »
  For each of us, as it was for His audience, He is no further away than THE NEXT HEARTBEAT. And, at age 71, my last heartbeat is closer than many other peoples' are.  Thus, I'm careful to post only the TRUTH.

No. The Bible was written for us but not to us.

Learn this lesson. You're not too old, I hope! ::preachit::

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #25 on: Sat Jan 11, 2020 - 18:19:23 »
No. The Bible was written for us but not to us.

Learn this lesson. You're not too old, I hope! ::preachit::

  Not at all on topic nor relevant to the post you're answering.

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #26 on: Sat Jan 11, 2020 - 20:09:59 »
  Not at all on topic nor relevant to the post you're answering.

Well, I don't see any of your comments being Biblical.

It wasn't the time of the end for us. It was the last days of the Jewish dispensation.


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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #27 on: Sun Jan 12, 2020 - 05:50:29 »
Well, I don't see any of your comments being Biblical.

It wasn't the time of the end for us. It was the last days of the Jewish dispensation.

  Trying to change the subject yet again !

  Fact is, you simply cannot actually support preterism.

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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #28 on: Sun Jan 12, 2020 - 10:33:45 »

Again, I feel sorry for you if you think Jesus is so sensitive that you must know exactly what "truth" is.

If you 're not "gifted" then maybe one should ask for wisdom.

Not to worry. You'll still make it to heaven, bro.

Peace out!





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Re: preterism - Phony as a Ford Corvette!
« Reply #29 on: Mon Jan 13, 2020 - 10:00:24 »
Again, I feel sorry for you if you think Jesus is so sensitive that you must know exactly what "truth" is.

If you 're not "gifted" then maybe one should ask for wisdom.

Not to worry. You'll still make it to heaven, bro.

Peace out!

  I politely asked for **PROOF** that the pret doctrine is true, that the eschatological events have already occurred, & I've not seen a peep of such proof from you or any other pret who may be reading this. Might as well admit you don't have any. And please, no "It's spiritual" stuff !

 

     
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