Author Topic: True or false and why  (Read 888 times)

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Offline MixedEmotions

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True or false and why
« on: Mon Apr 02, 2012 - 10:36:33 »
Simple question, folks:

Do you believe this generation has done a better job of proclaiming the Gospel than previous generations?

Offline MixedEmotions

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Re: True or false and why
« Reply #1 on: Mon Apr 02, 2012 - 13:35:01 »
I don't think so .... I have observed and studied the trends for about 40 years

I see a real depravation of efforts made by professing christianity across the board

Much of this has been done over the period that you specify, but not all of it .... much damage has been done over the centuries from the days of the early church until now

The following observations can be made:

Large institutional religious organizations simply do not preach and teach the gospel any longer

Many soft sell christianity and there is no real substance in the effort .... they have exchanged biblical christianity for making a business out of their objectives

And there are many movements that have come and gone, and exist today, that have substantially perverted christianity with all sorts of proprietary false and misleading dogmas .... this behavior is growing at an exponential rate and many are being duped by those who lead the charge .... the list is a long one

Linker,

Can you explain to everyone here why you believe the "this generation" that I was speaking about is NOT some future generation 2,000 years away?

Why is it that you commonly accepted the "this generation" from my statement as being representative of this generation (21st century) yet you refuse to accept the commonly understood language of "this generation" from the first century (Matthew 24)?

Pretty simple if one doesn't already have a predetermined eschatological position, right?  I guess you are just like C.S. Lewis who said:

“The apocalyptic beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be false.  It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime.  And, worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing.  Their Master had told them so.  He shared, and indeed created, their delusion.  He said in so many words, ‘this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.’ And he was wrong.  He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else.  This is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible.

Offline MixedEmotions

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Re: True or false and why
« Reply #2 on: Mon Apr 02, 2012 - 20:28:44 »
I do not have anything good to say about C.S. Lewis .... this individual was a false teacher in my opinion .... not even on the chart

So your presumption is not vaild

I read your question to ask about this current genertion living on the earth today

..... so it is this generation of today that I am speaking of .... about the last 70 years

You did not specify any "first century" generation in your question

You would have to do this and explain exactly what you are looking for if you want an a different answer

So, you are saying that Jesus wasn't wrong and that He did not delude His hearers?  Good.

I guess you are now painfully aware that when a person says "this" he means "this" and not "that" or some other far away "this generation."  What do you think the four disciples who Jesus spoke to in private conversation thought was meant by "this generation"?  Answer: the same thing you thought I meant in my conversation with you!

It ain't rocket science...

Offline MixedEmotions

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Re: True or false and why
« Reply #3 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 08:43:33 »
Sorry Linker, but Jesus said it would be "this generation" in speaking to those four individuals - just as He spoke of "this generation" (along with its identifying characteristics) in the following verses:

Matthew 11:16; 12:41,42,45; 23:36; 24:34; Mark 8:12,38; 13:30; Luke 7:31; 11:29,30,31,32,50,51; 17:25; 21:32; Acts 2:40.

But your paradigm insists that Mt 24:34 is not to be viewed as all the other "this generation" verses.  Very inconsistent!  It reminds me of your theory that "at hand," "near," "nigh," etc. must mean VERY FAR AWAY.  LOL.

Here is one of those verses:

Luke 17:25 - But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.   

To be consistent in your view, I guess you are still waiting for Calvary to occur according to the above verse???


Besides, Israel isn't even mentioned in Matthew 24, Mark 13, or Luke 21.  It is definitely in your own paradigm though.

Thanks for your non-use of Scriptures to make your points, again.

Offline MixedEmotions

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Re: True or false and why
« Reply #4 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 12:55:37 »
but I cannot buy your story at all .... Jesus was speaking to Israel in Matthew 24 .... not the church ..... and about the time of the end for the nation which is still pending

Your assertion will not do.  You must prove your assertion through Scripture.  Where does Jesus say He was speaking to Israel in Matthew 24?  This may be really difficult because Israel is not even mentioned.

A future believing remnant part of Israel's redemption is yet to come [Isaiah 11; Jeremiah 31:31-37; Ezekiel 36: 39; Daniel 9:24-27; Joel 2; 3; Micah 5; Zechariah 12; 13; 14; Acts 1:6; Romans 11:25-36]

Let's just take one of these (Isaiah 11).  Can you explain to me why the apostle Paul (speaking via the Holy Spirit) quoted Isaiah 11:10 to the first century church in the context of Gentiles coming into grace (salvation) in Romans 15:12 (along with three other OT quotes representing the same context)?  I assume that Isaiah 11:10's "in that day" refers back to the verses contained in Isaiah 11:1-9 - which you may believe to be a yet future millennial period.

Isaiah 11:10 - And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Romans 15:12 - And again, Isaiah saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
         


Notice also that Isaiah 11:11's "in that day" (which is still the same day) speaks about the recovering of the remnant.

Isaiah 11:11 - And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.   

Paul is quoting these OT verses to PROVE to the Gentile/Jew church at Rome that it had always been God's plan to redeem the Gentiles.

Further proof of the present salvation of this remnant is seen in Romans 11:5...

Romans 11:5 - Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.   

This is the kind of stuff you are going to have to deny in order to hold to your present paradigm.  Let it go and let God...






.... you will know the truth about this matter ..... sooner .... or later

That's funny (sorry).  But your biblical concept of sooner and later is a tad bit skewed when you believe words like shortly, quickly, near, nigh, at hand, etc. all mean 2,000 years into the future.  All to protect your precious paradigm, I'm sure...

Just address those two points of mine and nothing else.  If you don't, then I know you can't.  I will keep on you until you do.  Thank you.

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Re: True or false and why
« Reply #4 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 12:55:37 »



Offline MixedEmotions

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Re: True or false and why
« Reply #5 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 14:20:39 »
You can forget about keeping on me

Here is why .... I don't like that kind of talk

People who "keep on me get ignored" .... I am a skeptic with a steel trap mind

I answer all reasonable questions for those who are sincere about the asking

So ..... there has been enough discussion at this point on the subject of your post

And I really don't like one who tells me that I must prove something .... I have been on the message boards for years and your demeanor is common among those who like to argue about their religious beliefs

..... I owe you no proof of anything by the way

And your respose is "if you can't .... then I know you can't"

Teaching the Lord's Word is not some sort of game .... it is serious stuff

You can find others who will argue with you for sport .... I don't do it because it makes a mockery of the Lord's Word for those who look on

I will leave you with this ...... you will know what you want to know sooner .... or later .... no doubt .... maybe before this day is over

I didn't think you'd want to interact with the Scriptures I posted.  They were pretty much self-explanatory anyway.

I hope a lot of people are lurking.  They will see that I use Scripture to prove my assertions and you use your paradigm.  

The apostle Paul was quite clear about the interpretation of Isaiah 11 when he quoted from that passage to explain to his Gentile/Jew church about salvation coming to the Gentiles IN THAT FIRST CENTURY.  See also Acts 13-15...the Gentiles were being saved all over the place!

Have a nice day.  If you have no desire to interact with preterists and the Scriptures they bring forth, I strongly suggest that you go back to your futurist end time forum - this is a preterist forum.  We don't use opinions and assertions as proof.

You knew you were in trouble the moment you understood that by "this generation" (when I used it) was referring to OUR generation - just like those 4 disciples (in private) would have understood "this generation" (when Jesus used it) to refer to their 1st century generation!

Bye, bye.

inthenow

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Re: True or false and why
« Reply #6 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 20:08:02 »
MixedEmotions:

I will keep on you until you do.

Have a nice day.

I strongly suggest that you go back to your futurist end time forum - this is a preterist forum.

Bye, bye.

mixed emotions indeed.  ::nodding::





Offline grace

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Re: True or false and why
« Reply #7 on: Tue Apr 17, 2012 - 22:51:00 »
Simple question, folks:

Do you believe this generation has done a better job of proclaiming the Gospel than previous generations?

No! I believe we are more confused today!

Has the gospel been preached to all nations? Is this an event that was fulfilled? Or are we still proclaiming the good news?


Offline MixedEmotions

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Re: True or false and why
« Reply #8 on: Wed Apr 18, 2012 - 15:13:02 »
Simple question, folks:

Do you believe this generation has done a better job of proclaiming the Gospel than previous generations?

No! I believe we are more confused today!

Has the gospel been preached to all nations? Is this an event that was fulfilled? Or are we still proclaiming the good news?

May I ask why you had no problem understanding what "this generation" meant in my question?  It seems as if you might have a problem in understanding the same usage in Matthew 24:34 though...