Author Topic: Jesus: The Prophet That Futurists Hate  (Read 1380 times)

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thethinker

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Jesus: The Prophet That Futurists Hate
« on: January 10, 2012, 10:12:59 AM »
Jesus said that ALL things written would be fulfilled in His own days.

22 For THESE are the days of vengeance, that ALL things which are written may be fulfilled. Luke 21:22:


Jesus said that the Father would take the kingdom away from the Jews and give it to a nation that would bear the fruit of it Matthew 21:33-43:

33 “Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 But when the vinedressers saw my son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?

EdwardGoodie

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Re: Jesus: The Prophet That Futurists Hate
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2012, 10:27:25 AM »
And Peter writing to the saved said that THEY were that nation:

1 Peter 2:9 - But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:   




raggthyme2012

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Re: Jesus: The Prophet That Futurists Hate
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2012, 10:48:22 AM »
And Peter writing to the saved said that THEY were that nation:

1 Peter 2:9 - But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:   





Funny, I just now finished reading that chapter! When I left blueletterbible to come here I saw this post. :) Indeed! Peter refers to them as the nation Jesus speaks of in the parable in Matthew 21. LOVE that parable, makes so much more sense to me now.



thinker,

Excellent thread. I don't think that they hate The Prophet, just misunderstand Him. But I see the reason you titled it as such. Good reply to linker's thread.

EdwardGoodie

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Re: Jesus: The Prophet That Futurists Hate
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2012, 09:57:39 AM »
I didn't think the futurists would show up here, too much Scripture.

thethinker

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Re: Jesus: The Prophet That Futurists Hate
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2012, 05:07:43 PM »
And Peter writing to the saved said that THEY were that nation:

1 Peter 2:9 - But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:   






Funny, I just now finished reading that chapter! When I left blueletterbible to come here I saw this post. :) Indeed! Peter refers to them as the nation Jesus speaks of in the parable in Matthew 21. LOVE that parable, makes so much more sense to me now.



thinker,

Excellent thread. I don't think that they hate The Prophet, just misunderstand Him. But I see the reason you titled it as such. Good reply to linker's thread.


Of course the Futurists would not show up. They cannot bear the thought that Jesus came to different conclusions than they. If Jesus thought the kingdom promises were unconditional like the Futurists think, then He would NOT have said that the Father would take the kingdom away from them. How could the Father take the kingdom away from them if it was unconditional?

thinker





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Re: Jesus: The Prophet That Futurists Hate
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2012, 05:07:43 PM »



Offline Linker

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Re: Jesus: The Prophet That Futurists Hate
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2012, 06:15:18 PM »
The thinker just bit the dust

Let the Lord speak on the matter: [only a fool would dare to refute Him]

Jeremiah
31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Ezekiel
36:1 Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD:

36:2 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because the enemy hath said against you, Aha, even the ancient high places are ours in possession:

36:3 Therefore prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people:

36:4 Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that are round about;

36:5 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

36:6 Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen:

36:7 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame.

36:8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come.

36:9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:

36:10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:

36:11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

36:12 Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.

36:13 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they say unto you, Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations:

36:14 Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith the Lord GOD.

36:15 Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more, saith the Lord GOD.

36:16 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

36:17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

36:18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:

36:19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

36:20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.

36:21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

36:29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

36:30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

36:32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

36:33 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

36:34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

36:35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.

36:36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.

36:37 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.

36:38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Romans
11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.


« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 06:24:08 PM by Linker »
2Peter
1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts

Offline Merryone

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Re: Jesus: The Prophet That Futurists Hate
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2012, 06:29:28 PM »
 "And so I tell you", added Jesus,
         "the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce the proper fruits."


That would be everyone who receives Jesus Christ as Savior, including the Gentiles.
Jesus is Lord!! ::clappingoverhead::

daq

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Re: Jesus: The Prophet That Futurists Hate
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2012, 07:13:05 PM »
And Peter writing to the saved said that THEY were that nation:

1 Peter 2:9 - But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:  





Funny, I just now finished reading that chapter! When I left blueletterbible to come here I saw this post. :) Indeed! Peter refers to them as the nation Jesus speaks of in the parable in Matthew 21. LOVE that parable, makes so much more sense to me now.



thinker,

Excellent thread. I don't think that they hate The Prophet, just misunderstand Him. But I see the reason you titled it as such. Good reply to linker's thread.

THIS IS NOT IN DEFENCE OF DISPENSATIONALIST FUTURISTS!
That being said:

Peter is quoting Isaiah who prophesied beginning around 740BC ~

1 Peter 2:6-8 KJV
6. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8. And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Isaiah 28:16 KJV
16. Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.


Then Peter quotes Exodus 19 and Moses from around 1500BC ~

1 Peter 2:9-10 KJV
9. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
10. Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Exodus 19:3-6 KJV
3. And Moses went up unto God, and the Lord called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
4. Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
5. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6. And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.


This is why "audience relevance" falls flat on its face because every time Moses, or Isaiah, or Hosea, or Jeremiah, or Ezekiel was quoted to them, the audiences of Peter and Paul could have said the same thing that the modern "Full Preterist" of today says: "that was not written to me Peter" or "that was not written to me Paul and please keep it context: Moses wrote to the children of Israel some 1500 years ago"…

And surely there were some who did say the same: and surely they were not grafted into the House of Israel if they continued in unbelief. If only people would believe the words of Yeshua in his Doctrine when he stated emphatically to the Canaanite woman of Tyre:

Matthew 15:24 KJV
24. But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


The emphatic statement is nowhere rescinded in the Scripture, nor shall it ever be: Believe it, and be of a willing heart to become one of "the lost sheep" of the house of Israel, and surely the Master will graft you into the Olive Tree of YHWH, for Christ Yeshua is the Root and the Vine, and the Father is the Husbandman-Planter: Then truly shall you no longer be alienated from the commonwealth of Israel or strangers from the plural covenants of promise.

thethinker

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Re: Jesus: The Prophet That Futurists Hate
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2012, 10:00:39 AM »
And Peter writing to the saved said that THEY were that nation:

1 Peter 2:9 - But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:   






Funny, I just now finished reading that chapter! When I left blueletterbible to come here I saw this post. :) Indeed! Peter refers to them as the nation Jesus speaks of in the parable in Matthew 21. LOVE that parable, makes so much more sense to me now.



thinker,

Excellent thread. I don't think that they hate The Prophet, just misunderstand Him. But I see the reason you titled it as such. Good reply to linker's thread.


Raggthyme,

You are more kind to the Futurists than they are to you. They say you "hate" Zerchariah while you say that only "misunderstand" Jesus. Be very quiet when you get to heaven. We would not want the Futurists to find out that Preterists will be there too.

thinker




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Re: Jesus: The Prophet That Futurists Hate
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2012, 06:10:17 PM »
The preterist hates the visions that have been scripted in the Lord's Word

They do not even know Zechariah and this is not the issue

These prophetic visions are what the preterist hates because they cannot explain them with any degree of accuracy

All of the events in the vision are future events and have never been fulfilled .... yet

.....and this fact destroys the preterist's entire theological folly

Don't let the thinker deceive you   
2Peter
1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts

thethinker

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Re: Jesus: The Prophet That Futurists Hate
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2012, 02:57:03 AM »
The preterist hates the visions that have been scripted in the Lord's Word

They do not even know Zechariah and this is not the issue

These prophetic visions are what the preterist hates because they cannot explain them with any degree of accuracy

All of the events in the vision are future events and have never been fulfilled .... yet

.....and this fact destroys the preterist's entire theological folly

Don't let the thinker deceive you   

The Futurists hate the TIME statements in the visions. They also hate the CONDITIONAL statements in the visions. They also hate Jesus' own intepretations of prophecy.

Linker says that the preterists cannot explain Zechariah with any degree of accuracy. Yet the Futurists are DIVIDED over the TIME of the fulfillment. Some Futurists say that Zechariah refers to the millennium, some say it is being fulfilled now, and some say that it will be fulfilled in the new earth.

Futurists are also DIVIDED regarding the WAY Zechariah will be fulfilled. Some Futurists say it will be fulfilled literally and some say it will be fulfilled spiritually.

Linker hasn't been around. He lives in a cocoon. Futurists can't even agree with one another.

Jesus said that the kingdom would be taken away from the Jews and GIVEN to a people that would bear the fruits of it.This means that the promises in Zechariah were CONDITIONAL just as God Himself said,

"Return to me and I will return to you" (1:3-6)

But the Futurists say "No. Jesus and God were wrong!" The Futurists refuse to accept that much prophecy is about what COULD HAVE BEEN for Israel. Yet many of them still say that the Church would not be here IF Israel had obeyed Christ when He came. In other words, the present age is NOT WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN FOR ISRAEL.

Please note that Linker has not dealt with Jesus' statement about the Father taking the kingdom away from the Jews

Linker has not dealt with Jesus' statement becauuse Jesus is the prophet Linker hates.

thinker

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Re: Jesus: The Prophet That Futurists Hate
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2012, 05:30:19 AM »
Watch thinker's slid of hand .... he talks about the Lord punishing Israel for their intransigence

.... but deliberately leaves out the rest of the picture presented in the prophetic visions

Thinker knows very well what he sweeps under the rug .... this is the insidious deception and behavior of the preterist
2Peter
1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts

thethinker

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Re: Jesus: The Prophet That Futurists Hate
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2012, 05:30:07 PM »
Watch thinker's slid of hand .... he talks about the Lord punishing Israel for their intransigence

.... but deliberately leaves out the rest of the picture presented in the prophetic visions

Thinker knows very well what he sweeps under the rug .... this is the insidious deception and behavior of the preterist

So tell us exactly what Jesus swept under the rug. According to His parable Israel was NOT the heir of the kingdom but only the stewards of it. The owner's son was the heir. According to the parable the owner handed over the stewardship to another people because Israel killed the heir (the son) . See Matthew 21:33-43.

Jesus saw Himself as the heir and Israel as the mere steward. This means that Jesus' personal view of prophecy differs from yours.

thinker


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Re: Jesus: The Prophet That Futurists Hate
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2012, 07:16:14 PM »
"So tell us exactly what Jesus swept under the rug"


I said that you are the sweeper thinker .... I am  talking to you son

And you know exactly what I am talking about ..... you don't fool me for a second

..... and I have already demonstrated the Lord's future intent with His nation of Israel .... with significant scripture

You are a slippery dude thinker .... just like your father .... but your are not as clever as you think you are

..... easy to spot 
2Peter
1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts

inthenow

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Re: Jesus: The Prophet That Futurists Hate
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2012, 04:09:52 PM »
QUOTE:
Jesus: The Prophet That Futurists Hate.
Jesus is the prophet Linker hates

Saying those things shows that the poster has most likely been blinded, perhaps due to unbelief.
Can one having Faith in Jesus, hate Him. the poster may think so if one sees scripture diffrent to him.

They are ugly unchristian lying accusations. Stop doing the devils job.