Author Topic: Meet the Lord in the Air  (Read 3295 times)

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Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Meet the Lord in the Air
« on: Mon Oct 26, 2015 - 17:56:38 »
Hello Preterist friends,

Tired of hearing this phrase?  Here's a fun tidbit to turn that back around.

In Greek, the word "air" in this verse is "aer."  It means exactly what it sounds like - this invisible stuff that we breathe in and out all day.

Also in Greek, they believed that above the "aer" was the "aether."  That was the stuff that was in the heavens.  The aer was the stuff down here near the ground.

Funny, it doesn't say "meet the Lord in the aether."  Just the regular old air down here.

 ::pondering::

Jarrod

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Meet the Lord in the Air
« on: Mon Oct 26, 2015 - 17:56:38 »

Offline Fascinated_By_Mysteries

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #1 on: Mon Oct 26, 2015 - 18:18:53 »
why does this matter? seems like random topic?

Offline raggthyme13

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #2 on: Tue Oct 27, 2015 - 03:10:59 »
Jarrod, what are you hinting at? Lay it out for me, brother.  ::smile::

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #3 on: Tue Oct 27, 2015 - 14:35:44 »
If Paul had meant that they would meet Jesus at a cruising altitude of 10,000 feet, he would have used a different word.  The verse would say that they would meet Him in the aether.

The verse doesn't say that.

Offline Beta

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #4 on: Tue Oct 27, 2015 - 21:17:32 »
Hmmmm, I find that extremely interesting !
There is a lot to be learned from that !

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #4 on: Tue Oct 27, 2015 - 21:17:32 »



Offline doorknocker

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #5 on: Tue Oct 27, 2015 - 22:53:55 »
Ephesians 2, 2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according
to the prince of the power of the air,the spirit that now worketh in the
children of disobedience.


If the devil is the prince of the power of the air,  then where is the air?


If Christ comes and meets us in the air, does that mean He comes to us here in the devil
realm and takes us up to Himself to be with Him forever?


Ephesians 2, 6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in
Christ Jesus.

John 14, 3
And if I go to prepare a place for you, I will come again, and take you to myself, that
where I Am you may be also.


Let him who has ears understand.



Offline raggthyme13

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #6 on: Thu Oct 29, 2015 - 22:40:02 »
Ok, I'm following this post… very interesting indeed!

Online RB

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #7 on: Fri Oct 30, 2015 - 05:58:05 »
then where is the air?
Simple to answer that question, with a question. Where do birds fly?
Quote
Genesis 1:14-31~"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.  And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth, And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.  And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so."
The AIR is the first heaven where the fouls of the air fly.

Offline doorknocker

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #8 on: Fri Oct 30, 2015 - 08:42:25 »
then where is the air?
Simple to answer that question, with a question. Where do birds fly?
Quote
Genesis 1:14-31~"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.  And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth, And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.  And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so."
The AIR is the first heaven where the fouls of the air fly.


Is the devil the prince of the power of the air?

Is where the birds fly according to you then the domain of the devil?



As one great orator on this grace centered site is trying to teach is that

you have to use scripture to interpret scripture.
« Last Edit: Fri Oct 30, 2015 - 08:44:31 by doorknocker »

Offline SoteriaMusic

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #9 on: Thu Nov 05, 2015 - 15:47:17 »
If one traces the word aer...  / "air" back they will find it is also related to "pneuma" which is translated "spirit"  so to meet The Lord in the air can also be translated "meet The Lord in spirit"   ::smile::

Therefore not a snatching "away" in the sky into heaven,  but yes a snatching into the heavenly realm in spirit.  Just as, "present tense" we "ARE" seated with Him in heavenly places... and we Have come to Mount Zion, the heavenly city New Jerusalem, etc...  ::smile::

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #10 on: Mon Feb 08, 2016 - 22:49:43 »
If one traces the word aer...  / "air" back they will find it is also related to "pneuma" which is translated "spirit"  so to meet The Lord in the air can also be translated "meet The Lord in spirit"   ::smile::

Therefore not a snatching "away" in the sky into heaven,  but yes a snatching into the heavenly realm in spirit.  Just as, "present tense" we "ARE" seated with Him in heavenly places... and we Have come to Mount Zion, the heavenly city New Jerusalem, etc...  ::smile::
Air is related to breath, sure.  How you can extrapolate that into "heavenly realm," though, is just beyond me.

Jarrod

Offline Rev20

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #11 on: Fri Apr 15, 2016 - 21:06:49 »
If one traces the word aer...  / "air" back they will find it is also related to "pneuma" which is translated "spirit"  so to meet The Lord in the air can also be translated "meet The Lord in spirit"   ::smile::

Therefore not a snatching "away" in the sky into heaven,  but yes a snatching into the heavenly realm in spirit.  Just as, "present tense" we "ARE" seated with Him in heavenly places... and we Have come to Mount Zion, the heavenly city New Jerusalem, etc...  ::smile::
Air is related to breath, sure.  How you can extrapolate that into "heavenly realm," though, is just beyond me.


Jarrod, how would you interpret the location of the kingdom of heaven in this verse?

    "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." -- Mat 11:12 KJV

I believe it is all spiritual.  For example, we know that that our bodies (the body of Christ) is the temple of God:

    "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." -- 1Cor 3:16-17 KJV

And we know the holy temple resides on mount Sion:

    "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious [Isa 28:16]: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded." -- 1Pet 2:5-6 KJV

    "Now therefore ye [Gentiles] are no more strangers and foreigners [of the commonwealth of Israel], but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." -- Eph 2:19-22 KJV

And we know the Church resides on mount Sion:

    "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel." -- Heb 12:22-24 KJV

[Note that Paul was speaking of the Church in the present tense, exactly like we speak of the Church today.]

Now, if the temple, the church, the angels, just men made perfect, and Jesus, himself, reside on heavenly mount Sion in the spiritual realm, what else is there of the kingdom of heaven that we should be considering?



Online RB

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #12 on: Sat Apr 16, 2016 - 07:49:32 »
And we know the holy temple resides on mount Sion:
To be more correct, you need to change "on" to IS.
« Last Edit: Sat Apr 16, 2016 - 07:52:21 by RB »

Online RB

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #13 on: Sat Apr 16, 2016 - 08:05:49 »
Is the devil the prince of the power of the air? Is where the birds fly according to you then the domain of the devil?
I understand that to be where his main residence is, but not limited to it. 

Everything in Earth's system can be placed into one of four major subsystems: land, water, living things, or air. These four subsystems are called “spheres.” Specifically, they are the lithosphere (land), hydrosphere (water), biosphere (living things), and atmosphere (air). Each of these four spheres can be further divided into sub-spheres. To keep things simple in this course, there will be no distinction among the sub-spheres of any of the four major spheres.
« Last Edit: Sat Apr 16, 2016 - 08:08:24 by RB »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #14 on: Sat Apr 30, 2016 - 13:20:10 »
Sorry for the delay in responding.  I haven't been in this forum in a while.

Jarrod, how would you interpret the location of the kingdom of heaven in this verse?

    "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." -- Mat 11:12 KJV
I don't think the kingdom of heaven is a place.

If one looks at the entry in Strong's Concordance for the word kingdom, it says:

1. royal power, kingship, dominion, rule
.   a. not to be confused with an actual kingdom but rather the right or authority to rule over a kingdom
2. a kingdom, the territory subject to the rule of a king

It seems to me that most people have adopted the secondary meaning, but I think the first meaning is what was intended. 

Also, it seems that the word 'heaven' in that phrase has been used by one singular author (Matthew) as an epithet for God.  In the other gospels, the phrase is given as Kingdom of God.

I believe it is all spiritual.  For example, we know that that our bodies (the body of Christ) is the temple of God:

    "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." -- 1Cor 3:16-17 KJV

And we know the holy temple resides on mount Sion:

    "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious [Isa 28:16]: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded." -- 1Pet 2:5-6 KJV

    "Now therefore ye [Gentiles] are no more strangers and foreigners [of the commonwealth of Israel], but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." -- Eph 2:19-22 KJV

And we know the Church resides on mount Sion:

    "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel." -- Heb 12:22-24 KJV

[Note that Paul was speaking of the Church in the present tense, exactly like we speak of the Church today.]

Now, if the temple, the church, the angels, just men made perfect, and Jesus, himself, reside on heavenly mount Sion in the spiritual realm, what else is there of the kingdom of heaven that we should be considering?
I agree that it's spiritual.  I might not agree on what exactly 'spiritual' means, though.

It might be best to say that just-men-made-perfect ARE the New Jerusalem, or Mount Zion, or the temple, or whichever phrase you prefer.  We are the stones.

Luke 17:21 gives us the answer directly:  Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

No otherworldly 'spiritual realm' is required by this answer.  It's just in us, and we are here, wherever here happens to be.

Jarrod

Offline dpr

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #15 on: Sat May 14, 2016 - 04:38:26 »
I can understand how those with a fleshy understanding of things would struggle with this idea in 1 Thess.4. Even the 7th Vial of Rev.16 is poured out into the "air" (Greek aer).

The idea is more related to the idea of breath of Life than the sky. It's like someone here said, it's referring to the heavenly dimension of spirit. That is afterall the dimension of existence where our Lord Jesus will be returning from, i.e., the heavenly dimension. And it's that dimension of reality that is going to be revealed to all right here upon this earth. It will be like moving a curtain back, casting off a veil, and suddenly you see.

The 1 Corinthians 15 events Paul covered were the resurrection, its type of body, and our being changed at the twinkling of an eye on the last trump. Thus it was linking directly to the events of 1 Thess.4 where Paul covered the gathering by Jesus of the asleep saints and the saints still alive on earth when He comes.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #16 on: Mon May 16, 2016 - 17:49:41 »
The idea is more related to the idea of breath of Life than the sky.
Uhhhh... no.  Greek has very different words for air and breath.  Breath is pneo.  Spirit is the related word pneuma.  Even the word for soul is related to those two (psuche), but air is just.. .aer.  Not a related word at all.

It's like someone here said, it's referring to the heavenly dimension of spirit. That is afterall the dimension of existence where our Lord Jesus will be returning from, i.e., the heavenly dimension. And it's that dimension of reality that is going to be revealed to all right here upon this earth. It will be like moving a curtain back, casting off a veil, and suddenly you see.
Where do you get this stuff from?  The idea of alternate dimensions/realities doesn't exist in antiquity, either in the Bible or outside it.  It doesn't exist until the 20th century.  You're imposing modern thinking on an ancient text to see something that just isn't there.

Jarrod


Offline Star of David

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #17 on: Mon May 16, 2016 - 20:02:01 »
No one is going to meet Jesus up in the air. Paul simply got it wrong.

Offline beameup

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #18 on: Thu May 19, 2016 - 02:51:19 »
Paul received all his doctrine directly from the Risen Christ.  Paul "got everything right".  The Scripture speaks of 3 "heavens":
the "first heaven" (where the birds fly), the "second heaven" (the stars and planets), and the "third heaven" (where God dwells).     
Jesus will leave the "third heaven" and come to the "first heaven" to meet the Body of Christ... then "all hell breaks loose on the earth".  Pretty straight-forward and elementary stuff.
« Last Edit: Thu May 19, 2016 - 02:54:35 by beameup »

Offline Star of David

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #19 on: Tue May 24, 2016 - 01:05:53 »
Paul received all his doctrine directly from the Risen Christ.  Paul "got everything right".  The Scripture speaks of 3 "heavens":
the "first heaven" (where the birds fly), the "second heaven" (the stars and planets), and the "third heaven" (where God dwells).     
Jesus will leave the "third heaven" and come to the "first heaven" to meet the Body of Christ... then "all hell breaks loose on the earth".  Pretty straight-forward and elementary stuff.

There is no proof that "Paul received all his doctrine directly from the Risen Christ," that I'm aware of.  The only interaction between Jesus and Paul (Saul) in the Bible is the following:

Acts 9:3-9  New International Version (NIV)

As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”  “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.

“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied.  “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.

               ****************************************************************

Besides, after Christ returns to earth in the relatively not-too-distant future, we will all see that this Antichrist, Armageddon, Seven Years of Tribulation, Rapture, Mark of the Beast, "666", etc. etc. etc. scenario will be shown to be 100% completely wrong.

You learned of this truth here first.


« Last Edit: Tue May 24, 2016 - 01:20:14 by Star of David »

Offline TonkaTim

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #20 on: Tue May 24, 2016 - 01:56:00 »


There is no proof that "Paul received all his doctrine directly from the Risen Christ," that I'm aware of.  The only interaction between Jesus and Paul (Saul) in the Bible is the following:

Acts 9:3-9  New International Version (NIV)

As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”  “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.

“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied.  “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.

               ****************************************************************

Besides, after Christ returns to earth in the relatively not-too-distant future, we will all see that this Antichrist, Armageddon, Seven Years of Tribulation, Rapture, Mark of the Beast, "666", etc. etc. etc. scenario will be shown to be 100% completely wrong.

You learned of this truth here first.


Acts 23:11 And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Offline Star of David

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #21 on: Tue May 24, 2016 - 02:45:15 »


There is no proof that "Paul received all his doctrine directly from the Risen Christ," that I'm aware of.  The only interaction between Jesus and Paul (Saul) in the Bible is the following:

Acts 9:3-9  New International Version (NIV)

As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”  “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.

“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied.  “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.

               ****************************************************************

Besides, after Christ returns to earth in the relatively not-too-distant future, we will all see that this Antichrist, Armageddon, Seven Years of Tribulation, Rapture, Mark of the Beast, "666", etc. etc. etc. scenario will be shown to be 100% completely wrong.

You learned of this truth here first.


Acts 23:11 And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Like I said, there shall never be a Rapture. When Christ does return, there will be millions of people shocked to find out that this Antichrist, Armageddon, Seven Years of Tribulation, Rapture, Mark of the Beast, "666", etc. etc. etc. scenario will turn out to be completely false.

Offline TonkaTim

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #22 on: Tue May 24, 2016 - 03:00:55 »
I probably, should have just quoted your statement, "There is no proof that "Paul received all his doctrine directly from the Risen Christ," that I'm aware of." because that was the point I was addressing with these two Biblical citations:


Acts 23:11 And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.


The only point I am addressing at the moment. The scriptures do show that Jesus spoke directly to Paul & Paul's testimony states He was taught by direct revelation of Jesus.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #23 on: Wed May 25, 2016 - 19:03:27 »
No one is going to meet Jesus up in the air. Paul simply got it wrong.
Do you breathe dirt? Water, perhaps? 

If not, then you're currently "in the air" in the same sense Paul used the phrase.

Offline Star of David

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #24 on: Wed May 25, 2016 - 21:34:20 »
No one is going to meet Jesus up in the air. Paul simply got it wrong.
Do you breathe dirt? Water, perhaps? 

If not, then you're currently "in the air" in the same sense Paul used the phrase.

What I am saying is that when Jesus returns for the once and only time, NO ONE's feet is going to leave the ground, as is often hilariously portrayed in a "Rapture scene". (I always get a very good laugh whenever I watch the "Left Behind" movie.)

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #25 on: Fri May 27, 2016 - 15:48:03 »
Can you see why 'Paul got it wrong' might ruffle a few feathers?

Offline beameup

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #26 on: Sat May 28, 2016 - 11:09:30 »
Paul received all his doctrine directly from the Risen Christ.  Paul "got everything right".  The Scripture speaks of 3 "heavens":
the "first heaven" (where the birds fly), the "second heaven" (the stars and planets), and the "third heaven" (where God dwells).     
Jesus will leave the "third heaven" and come to the "first heaven" to meet the Body of Christ... then "all hell breaks loose on the earth".  Pretty straight-forward and elementary stuff.

There is no proof that "Paul received all his doctrine directly from the Risen Christ," that I'm aware of.  The only interaction between Jesus and Paul (Saul) in the Bible is the following:

Galatians 1:11-12 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Paul's ministry is to us, the Body of Christ, not the Jewish Sect of the Nazarenes. 
"The Twelve"  ministered to the "Sect of the Nazarenes" which preached the coming Messiah.
Matthew 12:5  These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying,
Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not
[/u]:
Here is wisdom: Pay attention to Paul



« Last Edit: Sat May 28, 2016 - 11:14:10 by beameup »

Offline doorknocker

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #27 on: Sat May 28, 2016 - 12:50:44 »
Paul received all his doctrine directly from the Risen Christ.  Paul "got everything right".  The Scripture speaks of 3 "heavens":
the "first heaven" (where the birds fly), the "second heaven" (the stars and planets), and the "third heaven" (where God dwells).     
Jesus will leave the "third heaven" and come to the "first heaven" to meet the Body of Christ... then "all hell breaks loose on the earth".  Pretty straight-forward and elementary stuff.

There is no proof that "Paul received all his doctrine directly from the Risen Christ," that I'm aware of.  The only interaction between Jesus and Paul (Saul) in the Bible is the following:

Galatians 1:11-12 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Paul's ministry is to us, the Body of Christ, not the Jewish Sect of the Nazarenes. 
"The Twelve"  ministered to the "Sect of the Nazarenes" which preached the coming Messiah.
Matthew 12:5  These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying,
Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not
[/u]:
Here is wisdom: Pay attention to Paul


I would say ..pay attention to Jesus since He is the Lord..


Acts 1,  8

But you shall receive power when the HOLY SPIRIT has come upon you, and you shall be My witnesses

in Jerusalem

and in all Judea

and Samaria

and to the end of the earth.



I believe that was spoken to the eleven.




What is "the revelation of Jesus Christ" ?


Has Christ been revealed to you?


All things have been delivered to Me by My Fatlher,  and no one knows the Son except the Father,

and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.


Offline beameup

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #28 on: Sat May 28, 2016 - 22:39:13 »
Paul received all his doctrine directly from the Risen Christ.  Paul "got everything right".  The Scripture speaks of 3 "heavens":
the "first heaven" (where the birds fly), the "second heaven" (the stars and planets), and the "third heaven" (where God dwells).     
Jesus will leave the "third heaven" and come to the "first heaven" to meet the Body of Christ... then "all hell breaks loose on the earth".  Pretty straight-forward and elementary stuff.

There is no proof that "Paul received all his doctrine directly from the Risen Christ," that I'm aware of.  The only interaction between Jesus and Paul (Saul) in the Bible is the following:

Galatians 1:11-12 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Paul's ministry is to us, the Body of Christ, not the Jewish Sect of the Nazarenes. 
"The Twelve"  ministered to the "Sect of the Nazarenes" which preached the coming Messiah.
Matthew 12:5  These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying,
Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not
[/u]:
Here is wisdom: Pay attention to Paul

I would say ..pay attention to Jesus since He is the Lord..


Acts 1,  8

But you shall receive power when the HOLY SPIRIT has come upon you, and you shall be My witnesses

in Jerusalem

and in all Judea

and Samaria

and to the end of the earth.



I believe that was spoken to the eleven.




What is "the revelation of Jesus Christ" ?


 

What about the "direct revelation of Jesus Christ" to Paul don't you understand?
Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but is now made manifest[/b][/u],
Rom 16:25

How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God[/b][/u], who created all things by Jesus Christ: Eph 3:3,4,9

The "mission" of the 12 was to go to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, who had been "scattered" throughout the world, and preach to them that Messiah had come.  Nothing changed about their "mission" from the Gospels through Acts.
« Last Edit: Sat May 28, 2016 - 22:41:41 by beameup »

Offline Star of David

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #29 on: Sun May 29, 2016 - 00:08:42 »
.


I would say ..pay attention to Jesus since He is the Lord..



Yes, I wholeheartedly agree and have done so since I began studying, at the age of 9 in 1963, Christ's statements recorded in Luke 21:25a & Matthew 24:29-30a pertaining to the celestial events to watch for, beforehand, that shall precede His return to earth.
« Last Edit: Sun May 29, 2016 - 00:13:03 by Star of David »

Offline Tertullian

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #30 on: Wed Aug 24, 2016 - 22:52:20 »
Hello Preterist friends,

Tired of hearing this phrase?  Here's a fun tidbit to turn that back around.

In Greek, the word "air" in this verse is "aer."  It means exactly what it sounds like - this invisible stuff that we breathe in and out all day.

I thank you for the effort, but I don't see how this turns anything around.

The message of "meeting the Lord in the Air" isn't to teach something called the Rapture.  The message is to assure us that when we die we'll go to meet Jesus along with our loved ones in Christ who have died previously.


Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #31 on: Tue Sep 06, 2016 - 13:43:49 »
The message of "meeting the Lord in the Air" isn't to teach something called the Rapture.  The message is to assure us that when we die we'll go to meet Jesus along with our loved ones in Christ who have died previously.
That's the point, actually.

Offline Charlie24

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #32 on: Tue Sep 06, 2016 - 15:17:35 »
Hello Preterist friends,

Tired of hearing this phrase?  Here's a fun tidbit to turn that back around.

In Greek, the word "air" in this verse is "aer."  It means exactly what it sounds like - this invisible stuff that we breathe in and out all day.

I thank you for the effort, but I don't see how this turns anything around.

The message of "meeting the Lord in the Air" isn't to teach something called the Rapture.  The message is to assure us that when we die we'll go to meet Jesus along with our loved ones in Christ who have died previously.

I think further explanation is needed.

The Greek word "aer" was considered to be up to appr. 6000 ft. above sea level, the lower atmosphere. The Greek word "aether" was considered to be above 6000 ft, the upper atmosphere.

There is a huge difference between meeting the Lord when we die and what Paul was speaking of  in 1Thes. 4.

Our spirit and soul go to the Lord when we die, the body goes to the grave. Paul was speaking of a bodily resurrection in 1Thes. 4, the graves open and the body joins the spirit of man.

When Paul said "we will meet the Lord in the air" he was speaking of the Lord coming within appr. 6000 ft. of the surface of the earth. Then we would be changed, the physical body and the spirit will be joined to create the same resurrected body that Jesus had when He rose from the dead.

This is the doctrine we know as the rapture of the church. It doesn't have to be called this, you can call it whatever you like. You could call it the main harvest of the resurrection, the resurrection of the church, the fulfillment of a completed salvation, etc. 

Offline dpr

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #33 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 11:01:28 »
The idea is more related to the idea of breath of Life than the sky.
Uhhhh... no.  Greek has very different words for air and breath.  Breath is pneo.  Spirit is the related word pneuma.  Even the word for soul is related to those two (psuche), but air is just.. .aer.  Not a related word at all.

It's like someone here said, it's referring to the heavenly dimension of spirit. That is afterall the dimension of existence where our Lord Jesus will be returning from, i.e., the heavenly dimension. And it's that dimension of reality that is going to be revealed to all right here upon this earth. It will be like moving a curtain back, casting off a veil, and suddenly you see.
Where do you get this stuff from?  The idea of alternate dimensions/realities doesn't exist in antiquity, either in the Bible or outside it.  It doesn't exist until the 20th century.  You're imposing modern thinking on an ancient text to see something that just isn't there.

Jarrod

The Greek definition for 'aer' is related to the idea of 'breath':

NT:109
aer (ah-ayr'); from aemi (to breathe unconsciously, i.e. respire; by analogy, to blow); "air" (as naturally circumambient):


KJV - air. Compare NT:5594.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

NT:5594
psucho (psoo'-kho); a primary verb; to breathe (voluntarily but gently, thus differing on the one hand from NT:4154, which denotes properly a forcible respiration; and on the other from the base of NT:109, which refers properly to an inanimate breeze), i.e. (by implication of reduction of temperature by evaporation) to chill (figuratively):
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

There is no imposing of modern thinking into it. Only someone not studied in 1 Corinthians 15 where Paul taught us about the resurrection body the saints still alive on earth are changed to at a twinkling of an eye would not understand this simple matter.

Also, those enamored with the myth that the resurrection body involves putting on fresh new 'fleshy' body would have difficulty understanding this matter from God's Word, for as Paul also said, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor.15).

Offline dpr

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Re: Meet the Lord in the Air
« Reply #34 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 11:10:22 »
The message of "meeting the Lord in the Air" isn't to teach something called the Rapture.  The message is to assure us that when we die we'll go to meet Jesus along with our loved ones in Christ who have died previously.
That's the point, actually.

Once 1 Cor.15 is understood about the change at the "last trump", I don't see how anyone could miss that the gathering of Christ at His coming is going to be in the "spiritual body" and not in a flesh body.

1 Cor 15:42-50
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV


How can a believer just dump what all Paul taught there with instead believing in a flesh resurrection body which Paul did not teach?